How many of you have an almost-even time split? And how are the kids?

[sanemom]

Just wondering because I know once our kids had more time with their BPD mom, they couldn't handle the pressure from the extreme alienation (common in BPDs) and turned against their dad totally.  Likewise, I have seen it in several other situations, and the judges here seem to make that a "test" to see how bad the alienation is (they give an almost 50/50 schedule and threaten the BPD with losing custody if the kids don't have a good relationship with the other parent in 6-12 months).  My friend is a therapist, and she has a few teens with a 50/50 schedule and a BPD parent, and she says that those teens are so stressed out from the split time and the emotional pressure from the BPD side that every time they go to the other parent, they are very angry at the other parent for a couple of days (she said she has witnessed some yelling sessions in her office right after a transition).

I was thinking about how long it takes the ADULTS on this site to establish boundaries with a BPD (us included) and how much more difficult it must be to a teen with less life experience who does not get to divorce a parent to establish those same boundaries.

[flourdust]

My split is about 75/25 in my favor. This is a temporary court order while the divorce process slowly advances.

My ex does her share of alienation -- which I document -- including calling me a selfish monster who wants to keep D11 away from her, complaints about money, telling D11 that I hate her mom, and using D11 to lobby for things the ex wants from me.

I have noticed D11 sometimes being angry with me when I pick her up from the ex's place. It usually lasts only a few minutes. I stay calm and friendly and supportive, and I can sense her relaxing back into our usual relationship.

I do worry about what would happen if the ex had more custody.

[Panda39]

Hi Sanemom 

I was thinking about how long it takes the ADULTS on this site to establish boundaries with a BPD (us included) and how much more difficult it must be to a teen with less life experience who does not get to divorce a parent to establish those same boundaries.

Not only does a teen have less life experience, but the desire to love both parents and I could argue less confidence (you are still learning who you are and how to behave and what your own values are etc... .) but this is their parent... .an authority figure, and the kids are often conditioned by that dysfunctional parent (and by witnessing an enabling parent) to have no boundaries (at least when it comes to them).  Boundaries around the BPD parent is a tool the kid may not even have in their toolbelt.  Society also pressures children to honor "thy mother and father" and "respect your elders", don't rebel etc.

I tell someone that doesn't know my story about my SO's daughters limited contact with their mom and I get disapproving looks... .until I tell them the Camp story and the College story.

I've watched my SO's daughters go through the whole spectrum... .(mom had majority custody early on) the girls were enmeshed with their mom, used as weapons against their dad (spying on him/made false allegations of abuse) and alienating their dad. 

Two years in the divorce was final and my SO was awarded slightly more than half custody and this period was definitely a transition for everyone, his younger daughter threatened suicide surrounding her mother's instability, my SO was learning what battle to choose when it came to the ex and the older daughter was trying to overcome the decision that she and her mother made to home school her first year of high school (nothing happened that year... .0.0 GPA).

Since the fiascoes of 2015... .Summer Camp (younger daughter) and College (older daughter) both girls "voted with their feet" and moved in with dad full-time.  The girls now have strong physical boundaries around their mom the older daughter is very low contact via email and the younger daughter will talk to her mom on the phone and have the occasional coffee or lunch with her mom.  It took extremely messed up actions directed at them for the girls to set these firm boundaries.  It's sad they both knew their mom was messed up and did things to other people (con artist/fraud) but never thought she would turn those behaviors on them (I can't imagine how devastating that has been for them)

What's really sad is none of the above situations are ideal, these girls have been through the wringer.  Having a mentally ill mother in your life is hard and creating boundaries around your interactions with your mentally ill mother is hard... .the girls chose the "hard" that protects themselves... .the best choice they have under the circumstances.

Panda39

[david]

I was an EOW dad in the beginning (2007) and ex used serious alienation tactics against me. For a variety of reasons our two boys saw it for what is was. It took them several years. In 2010 the order was changed to 50/50. Things have gotten better.
What I have come to realize is that both boys isolate themselves from their mom when they are with her. They come home from school and go to their rooms. I view that as LC at their moms. They don't do that when they are with me. Ex's alienation tactics have backfired on her and that is her issue. She attacks them sporadically with no connection to what they see. I listen and validate. Sometimes I get what triggered her and it has nothing to do with either boy or me. I get an email and that tells me what is bothering her. I don't respond to such emails and that has lessened them.

[Portent]

I'm new sharing 50/50 and my son is only 2 but as a stepfather I got to see behind the curtain and it does scare me. She never did the alienation directly to their father but she would poke jabs. She was however merciless on his girlfriend, going as far to talk about her profanely in front of the kids. Beyond that and what really scares me is that their father is a good dad. He spends a lot of time with them and does fun things with them. I was a good stepfather and too spent a lot of time with those kids. It wasn't enough. Her presence and abuse was able to turn my stepson into an introverted recluse and make my step daughter a clone of her mothers on her way to either a lot of therapy or a life without love and the ability to hold onto a relationship.

It scares me that no matter what I do or how good of a father I am for my son I cannot protect him from the damage that she will do.

[takingandsending]

I have 43/57 with my xw. We are early in the process. I stick to being present, providing a validating environment for my S11 and S5, and trying to never put them in the middle of disputes with xw. I don't know or care what my xw does, provided she does not abuse them or put them in harms way. S11 sees a therapist (before and now during our divorce). I am working toward S5 seeing a T for support. I think it depends on how much vitriol the kids are exposed to. On my side, I can reduce conflict through the use of the communication tools on the website, limiting communication, resisting engagement. So far, that approach is working for my children. Hope it continues to.

[Thunderstruck]

When DH left uBPDbm it took years until we even had a temp CO (they were never married). So basically we got to see SD whenever uBPDbm would allow, which was never, then every other weekend, then only on weekends once uBPDbm discovered she could go out partying (so working up to more of a 60/40 split). At the time uBPDbm was alienating SD(then 8 and 9) pretty hard. There are days I would go to bed crying because of the hateful things that came out of SD's mouth. It was very rough. By the time we finally got a court hearing, uBPDbm demanded more money and we asked for 50/50. We got our schedule and pay even less support than when we were voluntarily giving her money. These were two big blows to uBPDbm and a lot of the wind was taken out of her sails.

I noticed big changes once we had a set schedule (50/50). SD's emotional meltdowns were a lot fewer and far between. She did better with knowing whose house she was going to on what day. I really think that having that consistent access to her has been the key in her not being alienated. It was really scary for awhile. But I also did remind myself that kids take it out on the consistent, unconditional parent because they know that the parent won't go anywhere and can take it. If SD were to act out on uBPDbm... .it's scary the things uBPDbm retaliates with. "I hate you" "I'm going to call the police and have you arrested" "I'm going to pack your stuff and leave it outside".

I've noticed another shift in SD(now 12) now that she's older and in middle school. She is becoming more independent and thinking for herself and less enmeshed with uBPDbm. Plus her sister now lives with them and is another voice saying "Something is not right with mom". With this shift she has gone from wanting the schedule the way it is to saying she would prefer living at our house.

But when she fully reaches teen time... .who knows. Maybe it'll shift back to her preferring her mom's because mom has no rules and she can get into trouble (boys, drinking, etc). Time will tell I guess.

[Nope]

Even though the kids only have short visits with uBPDm at this point they still always come home angry. I once pointed it out to SD that it seems like everything is just fine before she leaves but then she always comes home angry. She couldn't give me a reason for why. But it did make her more introspective and mindful of her own feelings. SS on the other hand is very passive aggressive so he doesn't appear outwardly angry. He just acts out by doing things he knows he isn't supposed to that will make DH mad. And like others have said the cost of getting mad at uBPDm or taking hard feelings out on her is too high. DH and I are much safer targets.

So much of how kids respond to transitions depends more on the kids than any other factor. SD and SS are teens that live with us full time and see uBPDm only a few weeks a year, where she is basically sainted and we are stuck doing the real parenting and taking on the real consequences. UBPDm also has a 7 year old who is 50/50 with her dad. According to those people in that family that I talk to, this 7 year old has a much more realistic and healthy picture of who her mom is because she goes back and forth between a stable environment and an unstable one.

[HopefulDad]

I'm at 50/50 and things are great vs. when my BPDxw had them 80% of the time.  The 50/50 gives my kids a longer break from her... .and her a break from them.  I think this has been mutually beneficial.  Being around me half the time guarantees 50% normalcy.  Being around her only half the time improves the odds of normalcy with her because with less of a parenting workload, she's less stressed and takes it out on them a lot less than before.