Step-mom to 17 yr old SS with uBPD mom. How do we talk to him?

[Stepmom2Matt]

Hi there everyone!

I've been lurking on the bpdfamily pages for a week or so, trying to educate myself and figure out how to help my SS.

A bit of history... .my 17 yr-old SS moved in with us just over three years ago.  He has ADD Inattentive and a very mild case of ODD.
SS has a sister who is 25, just married and is a child psychologist.
Biological mother is uBPD, a fact I've pretty much known since I first met her.  She's not a rational person, but her symptoms seem to come and go.  (Perhaps they are there constantly, but we stay a few hours away from her and don't deal with her unless absolutely necessary)
uBPD is remarried to a man who has two young sons who live with them.

Okay!  So that's the basic history.  Here is where I am looking for a bit of help.
We've had challenges with SS due to ADD and ODD.  arguments and histrionics have been getting progressively worse.  We finally sent him to a psychologist for some therapy as well due to increasing depression and hopelessness.  SS has been increasingly negative and we have been unable to "bring him around".  SS has been seeing therapist for just over 6 weeks now.

Last weekend, SS was visiting his uBPD mom and called us the night before he was due home, he was very upset and told us he and his sister had a fight with their mom.  He told us she was unreasonable and wouldn't stop or leave them alone.  The sister eventually left... .and after a few hours, my ss called his sister and had her collect him.  He stayed the night there and she arranged to get him on the bus to come home to us.
It turns out that BPD mom was getting jealous of the time that SS was spending with his sister.  it was starting to irritate her, and then the sister brought a Harry Potter DVD for them all to watch together.  BPD mom freaked out about Harry Potter being evil and went off on a tangent about her daughter being possessed and it progressed from there to uBPD mom accusing ss of wanting to have an affair with his sister.  I won't go into great detail of all that happened... .suffice it to say it was ugly and SS was traumatised but the whole thing.

SS's sister told SS for the first time that the mom had BPD.  So SS had a lot of questions when he got home.  We've tried to explain to him that BPD mom is not thinking straight when she is in a rage as she was that weekend.  We feel that we actually got through to him about the whole thing for the very first time.  BUT THEN... .BPD mom called SS and spend ages on the phone with him.  Needless to say... .SS now blames himself for the entire fight/rage/incident.

We're going to see SS's therapist tonight for an update on SS's progress, are there specific things I should ask or bring to his attention?
Do we keep trying to explain BPD to SS?
(SS is 17 years old, but he is NOT a mature boy, he really behaves like a child about five years younger.)  do we adjust what we say to him according to his emotional maturity?  How do we give him coping skills when it comes to emotions and his mom?

ANY help would be gratefully accepted at the moment.

Thank you for "listening"!

[livednlearned]

Hi Stepmom2Matt,

Welcome and hello  

It sounds like your SS had a real head bender that night  

I have had to walk a similar road (S15 has ADD and mild ODD, among other stuff, plus a uBPD dad) and he was much more responsive to validation than explanation. Meaning, I would ask validating questions instead of telling him facts and whatnot.

People with BPD tend to have a bottomless need for validation and their kids can struggle with basic personhood because they have spent their childhood validating the parent, instead of the opposite way around, which is a reversal of the natural order.

As the non-BPD parent or step parent, we have to double up on the validation, which helps them strengthen their sense of themselves through emotional reality, something the BPD parent tends to undermine in insidious ways.

For example, with my son, he doesn't remember what his dad said, he remembers how he felt. So we focus on that -- and then his T helps him realize that dad made him feel bad about xyz, when that is a normal thing that most people do and feel.

You may want to ask the T if there is anything to be gained by giving SS17 a book about having a BPD mother. My son felt relief when he first realized his dad acted nuts because he drank. Then, when his dad went dry drunk, the abusive behavior was still there. So I explained that many people thought something was wrong with dad's brain and how he processed emotions. Nothing wrong with that, except dad didn't ask for help or get treatment, and for some reason no one understands, he chooses to stay sick.

I was worried that S15 was on his way to developing BPD traits and didn't want to stigmatize his dad's potential diagnosis.

[NorthernGirl]

Hi and welcome stepmom2Matt!   

I am also a stepmom. My DH (dear husband) and his uBPD (undiagnosed BPD) ex have 3 boys. The youngest is 22. He has cognitive delays. He is emotionally immature (acts about 14) and has anxiety and some OCD traits, and he reads at about a grade 4 level. Most days he is loving and kind, but he often starts off negative and he struggles after talking with his mom. He says his mom doesn't yell as much as she used to, but he still awaits the next time she will blow up at him. She says horrible things about DH and me so there are times SS22 struggles trying to decide who to believe. Luckily, he talks things out so it allows us (or his T) to address issues. His brother, who is 25, stuffs his feelings and rarely is willing to talk them out -- he is an addict and has recently been diagnosed with BPD - and has not responded well to therapy in the past.

It's great that your stepson has a therapist (T). As livednlearned says, the T can help your stepson see what is normal - so it isn't just you telling him things. SS22 goes to a T regularly. The T tried to get SS22 to write out the issues he's having before he comes, but that often doesn't happen, so I do it. I often write out the issue and what we have done about it so far (e.g. I might say SS22 is anxious about visiting his grandparents, so we got him to explain what had him the most nervous and helped him come up with some solutions.) The T might then role play how SS22 can deal with a situation or just validate what he is feeling.

We have looked to SS22's T (and SS25's) to help determine what we should say in describing his Mom. The T (and people on this website) have often said -- focus on uBPD's behaviors as opposed to talking about the disorder. We have never told SS22 that his mom has BPD. First, we know he would instantly tell his Mom. Second, we don't think he can comprehend what it is. Instead we try to get him to talk about what he is seeing and feeling -- either with us or with his T.

As livednlearned says -- validation if a huge help and SS22 needs lots of it! So does DH. Sometimes I get drained trying to validate everyone but I know if I do it well, it helps them. it is still not a natural thing for me, but I am trying to improve. There is good information on this site about validation.

As to SS22's negativity -- we try to help him by getting him to describe each night at dinner what he is grateful for and we help him see another view. He is getting better at this, but his go-to response still seems to be blaming or negativity. Sometimes he will recognize this himself and try to come up with something positive which we congratulate him on. His T works with him on this often.

Hopefully your SS's T is solid. If so, I would rely on the T's direction as to what to say to the 17 year old.

[Stepmom2Matt]

Gosh, thank you both for your insights.

SS went to his therapist, but only briefly touched on the incident with his mom.  The therapist has asked to see us (DH and I) so we'll see him on Thursday.  I'm hoping he will be able to give us some information on coping skills going forward.

SS seems a little better the last few days.  Less argumentative and more inclined to spend time with us.  (He's usually holed up in his room)  I take that as a good sign!  He's not been easy to talk to and we worry about him a lot as he tends to internalise things, just the fact that he's eating dinner with us is a break through!

I have to admit to being lax on the validation with SS.  Mainly because it has felt like such an uphill battle and often I've felt that there was very little to actually validate!  (Gosh... .that sounds awful!  My only excuse is that it's been exhausting) 

I promise to make much more of an effort to make him feel important and loved.  He's a good kid... .he's just so complicated, I wish there were a magic wand we could wave to make him feel better!

He said something to me last night.  We were standing in the kitchen while he was dishing up his supper and we were planning on having one of his friends around for the weekend, completely off-hand SS said, "You'll see that I act differently around my friend."  When I asked why, he said, "I act differently around everyone.  I'm not the same with you as I am when I'm with mom.  I'm different at school too, and even when I'm alone I'm not myself."  I asked him what he meant by that, but he couldn't really give me a coherent idea of what he meant, he just said, "I'm never myself because I don't know what that is". 

I understand that adolescence at the best of times is confusing, and I also know that most of us have a façade that we portray amongst different sets of people in our lives.  But to have a 17 year old boy say that was quite a jolt!  Surely he should have SOME sense of identity by now?

It has reinforced the need for validation in my mind, and it's certainly something I'll bring up with his therapist!  Have any of you had anything like this to deal with?  And is validation the only answer?

(Thank you again for your responses on my previous query!)

[Panda39]

Stepmom2Matt,

My SO's daughters D16 & D20 have been aware that their mom is most likely BPD for sometime.  At one point I lent them my copy of Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by Christine Ann Lawson and have not seen it since.  The older daughter came here briefly (she is not ready to confront the issues with her mom... .she is choosing to ignore them and stuff her feelings - we keep encouraging therapy hoping she will go when she's ready). D16 has been diagnosed with PTSD and is in therapy which has been beneficial to her.

They know about BPD but we really don't use the label.  The problem isn't the name the problem is the behaviors so that is where we focus, listening and validation, helping the girls set boundaries, and help problem solving is where our time is spent.
 
My SO's daughters are in different places when it comes to their mother, D20 has almost no contact with her mom and D16 tries to have a relationship with her mom but struggles with it.  Right now we are coming up on Mother's Day (the most loaded holiday of the year for them) and each has different issues to contend with.  D20 the guilt of not seeing her mom, and the feeling that no one (outside of us and her best friend) understands why she doesn't want to see her mom.  D16 wants to take her mom to lunch, doesn't want to talk about her sister which is what mom will likely want, we have been helping her with boundaries and an exit strategy if things go really south.

In terms of what your SS told you about his lack of sense of self, first of all I think that was pretty insightful on his part to recognize that.  You also mentioned that he is not mature, so he might just be delayed in figuring things out. I would definitely take that information to his Therapist for further discussion.

Panda39

[Klera]

Hello fellow stepmom! welcome.
My SD13 also internalizes a great deal.  Communication about her mother is almost non existent in our house.  My SS12 is slightly more open about what goes on at their other house but only 'safe' questions. He and his dad go on walks together when they visit every second weekend for some dad/son time.   Kids of BPD mothers simply do not feel safe to discuss their BPD mothers, life with her, behaviour, how they feel etc.   Period.   They know mom's 'elevator doesn't reach the top floor' I'm sure of that.  God only knows the verbal and emotional abuse, crazy behaviour they have witnessed and been subjected to over the years that only they keep to themselves.   And as for your SS?  I would imagine he has witnessed his mother wear several 'masks' that the Borderlines often wear.  They can be brilliant actors and actresses to the outside world (high functioning) but behind closed doors with their families?  yikes - scary.   I would also imagine (simply guessing) he is very confused about mom's sudden mood swings, irrational thought patterns (delusional at best) believing her own b.s. she tries to throw around and baiting, which is starting fights on purpose simply because instigating incessant chaos and drama is what borderlines are best at.      Peace and harmony, problem solving, things just going smoothly?... .it's just not how their brains are wired.   Probably the toughest thing for many of us dealing with pwBPD is remembering they aren't normal.  I say that, because I've discussed things with my good friend of 25+ years, whose mother is also borderline (final straw at the age of 50, she had to strictly cut off all contact with her mother but the odd holiday card).  I've gone to her with my rants and frustrations seeking advice with: 'what the hell is this woman thinking?'  'how can she do that to her own kids' stuff as a stepmom seeking rationality or some sort of answer.  And this is going on 9 years of being a stepmom.  You know what my friend tells me?  '(my name) SHE ISN'T N-O-R-M-A-L!'   We are wired one way - rational, peace loving, empathetic, as our minds working the way they are supposed to.  We are constantly questioning, rationalizing, sorting out the weird and crazy, unspeakable things borderlines do and say, frustrated, exhausted, shaking livid even.  When we have to stop and say to ourselves: "They will never do or be what you want them to be -  so why do you keep banging your head against the wall?".   Learn to use rock solid boundaries, cut off as much contact as you can with them (if you are able), they are toxic and hurtful, damaging and abusive individuals. People with borderline, as far as I know never change. God knows I've prayed enough. They keep repeating over and over the same destructive patterns like a broken record almost to the point of it being so predictable it's easy to meet trouble half way before they even attempt their next transgression against you.    Now as far as kids go.  This is so bloody tricky. There are books to explain the borderline mother, yes.  I would definitely recommend learning as much as possible.  But communicating to kids about this whole thing I think needs to be approached so very delicately.   I believe asking questions that they feel safe to answer is a starting point and just developing the skill of simply talking.  My H goes out for walks with his kids, without me, their stepmom when they come to visit.  Even though we enjoy the 4 of us doing stuff, this is time that their dad can and has the opportunity to ask how they are, how is school, what kind of activities, friends etc.  All pretty safe stuff. I'm not there to scrunch up my face or react because I know I sometimes let off this air of disapproval/anger towards their mom even though I try my best not to!    The only thing is, we don't discuss their mom. The 'wall' goes up, they just don't feel safe and it's awkward and they protect her out of loyalty.  I wouldn't call it lying, I would say that they are good at telling us what they want us to hear.  Good, fine, okay type of answers.    These kids have known since they were 4 & 5 years old (parents separated) that things between houses were just not friendly.  Especially when I came along! world wars are tame in comparison to this woman's contempt.     My DH has conducted himself with such class, strength and dignity.   Always deflecting the ex weaponizing of the kids, their things, or any sort of b.s. nonsense the BPD mom can conjure up simply out of spite that she cannot control herself over.   It is exhausting but I also believe they can be 'trained'.   Boundaries cannot be messed with. Period.  Mom does something, we counteract or block it. Over and over until she just cannot keep trying the b.s. stuff she tries to do.  She tries another angle? same thing another block until it slowly decreases and wares her down.   Rock. Solid. Boundaries. Every single time. Yes, there are quiet periods but then there is always, here we go again, eventually.    Every case is different. Everyone has to establish what those walls or boundaries are and lay out firmly what is and is not acceptable to them as parents.  I think it is very tricky for fathers not to get caught up in the emotional blackmail that can often be the weapon of choice - the BPD moms using the father's love for their kids against them.  God, that is the worst for me as a stepmom!  Witnessing how great dad is and BPD mom uses anything and everything 'good' he does as 'bad' or purposely throwing her kids under a bus in order to get what she wants.  It is absolutely sickening to me. 
Sorry for the rant, I'm off track!

Kids communication:   Therapy yes.  It's also important that they not feel something is wrong with them.  My H used to take the kids to see someone (ordered through the mediator).  I didn't go with, I wasn't permitted to as the stepparent so I am glad to see other step parents are involved in therapy as a family. It was to be between the parents as I was not legally part of the separation/divorce/parent agreement between the two parents.  Although the mediator and therapist could have called on me to join, I was not.  It was  safe place (neutral) opportunity for the kids to discuss things about their lives.   Their BPD mom would have blown a gasket if she knew I was attending with her kids and their dad!  yikes. She knew what I'm capable of and the cork I could un pop on her total b.s she tries to make everyone believe about her.    The BPD mom must have known it was all about her 'limitations' as a parent (an "attack on her parenting" as she would deliberately  sabotage every time it was H's turn to take them (they both took the kids to T separately). The kids would be 'sick' every time it was dad's turn to take them to T.  It must have been quite threatening to her definitely. Remember the masks?  BPD mom's can portray themselves as MOTY (mother of the year) to the outside world and especially to teachers (jeez don't get me started with that one!) but the rest of us know exactly what and who they really are.   And what's more upsetting is how they treat their own kids and the total lack of empathy they have.   

Whoops, I'm off track again. 

Delicate and gentle communication.  My SD13 is also starting to spend more time behind closed doors.  We have a rec room downstairs we fixed up so she could go down and just hang out by herself if she doesn't like the movie we're watching, just go on the computer.  I want to keep tabs on that, she is a smart girl and well behaved, honest but you cannot be too careful (kids alone on the internet it's bad enough as adults).  I don't like to see kids be isolated.  It's a tricky thing to give them space, but to also check in with them regularly enough.   Oh and the last thing... .make sure you get a therapist who is familiar with BPD and kids of BPD moms and if they are not, find one who is.  It should be the very first thing that comes out of you is 'my kids have borderline mother'  even if she isn't diagnosed officially and let's face it, who does get diagnosed officially anyway? one can just tick off the boxes yourself... .  Don't waste time and money on someone who isn't qualified.   And be gentle with the kids in discussing about their BPD moms.    But if you feel that this person (BPD mom) has crossed lines that are just unacceptable, for god's sake protect the kids as best as you can, however you feel is best for them.  Sometimes this might involve uncomfortable discussions to find out what the hell is going on with them.  But if the kid knows it's coming from a good place and you're there only to try and help protect them (as best you can do) and love them, then I think they will do okay in the end.  I hope.
Cheers to all and thanks for reading my long post.  Maybe something I've said has helped.

[Stepmom2Matt]

Klera, Panda39 et al... .

THANK YOU!

Just knowing that others are in the same boat as we are is reassuring!

I'm so sorry for all the stuff these children have to go through.  the confusion is awful!

Thank you for sharing!

... .and Klera?  I keep going off at a tangent too!  There is SO MUCH to deal with and it's just so left of centre that it feels completely surreal!

I get you.   ... .and we've got this! 

Lots of love and hope to you all!

[ennie]

Here is my 2 cents worth, as a 10 year stepmom to an SD17 whose mom has BPD. 

I think that getting under the diagnosis is helpful for kids. Empathizing with the person doing the damage so a child can understand that why this is happening has nothing to do with them, but they can have good boundaries. Explaining what is hard for their parent.  In our case, that meant starting at a younger age saying, "Your mom has a really hard time regulating emotions."  I would explain that we all vary in this way--my SD13 is great at emotional regulation, not as good at expressing feelings, dad is good until he is not, SD17 and I are both not super regulated, but more on the expressive end... .mom has almost no regulation when upset.

As the kids got older, I would explain to SD17 that  for her mom it is almost impossible to hold emotion in her body, so she pushes it out into blame.  "Sometimes, when people are hurt really badly as children, they do not have a big enough container to hold feelings safely and feel them, so they put them on others." 

For me, it has been very important to not make mom wrong, to make sure my SDs know that their anger at their mom's behavior is totally appropriate, and they can deal with that in various ways, and they can have boundaries (with mom, and I model that by letting them have boundaries with me).  Mom does not have to be bad for it to be okay to be angry, sad, afraid related to her.  She is doing her best, and her best rarely includes the needs of others.

As far as talking about this, I suggest doing something physical while talking, art or a walk or some activity your SS likes.  Do not insist on eye contact or on him getting you.  Speak from the heart, being aware that you sharing your feelings helps him to be able to know and speak his own eventually.  No blame. Validate his hard work. following the "When (fact/observation), I felt (just your feelings)" format. An example, "When you returned from your mom's and were upset, I felt really sad and scared for you.  I am afraid of your mom's anger and pain hurting you or your strong relationship with your sister.  I want you to know I see how much you try not to hurt her, and even if it does not always work with her, I see you and how good of a person you are, how strong you are." 

With my SD17, I really see how validating her without judgement of her or her mom has given her the tools to separate without needing to blame herself.  Good luck to you, you are central here and I hope you see that.

[SpinsC]

You've got some great advice here. I'll only add that being the stepmom can be a little awkward when the biomom is BPD/uBPD.

I had the added fun of having a husband who is ALSO uBPD/ucPTSD. I married him when the kids were DSS12 & DSD17. We had custody and DSS stayed very loyal to his mother. DSD not so much.

I drove the kids to school and used that as great talk time - again, no eye contact, no judgment, let them direct the conversations usually. Other times, we'd be working in the yard or on the vehicles, whatever. This was especially effective with DSS.

I can't/couldn't protect the kids from BOTH bio parents, but I tried to remain a solid adult in their lives. Not that I'm all that solid to begin with, still I tried. Now that both are adults, I remain friendly with both of them.

My stepdaughter is a wonderful young woman who has learned to stop self-injuring when she's upset. Her husband and I both give her the freedom to FEEL what she feels, to TALK about it and to be listened to. She is raising one self-confident daughter of her own now.

My stepson stays with us still, which at 25 years old, surprises me. Delights me, too! He knows I know about his mother. He also knows I won't go there, it's not my place. Still, I do validate him every chance I get (not often) and we still have looking-at-the-tv conversations sometimes. Now that he's an adult, we can have real discussions looking at eyes, but that does still seem to bring out the aggression in him.

The end result, after 12+ years of marriage to their father is that they are both good adults. It took work and I messed up a whole lot, but it mattered that I asked forgiveness when I did.

About that feeling that he's not sure who he is, work with that more if you can. It happens a lot with children of BPD mothers. The book should be a big help, I hope it is. I also hope that the therapy continues to help him.