Yes I have tried everything

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Love this man so much. But the chaos was unbearable. Broke up with him last October. Have not seen him but he calls,me alot. Yesterday he,ask me to marry him. My two adult children despise him. So much pain. is a fantastic lover. I am so lonely. Now I have deduced that he has had,sex with another. Makes me sick to my stomach but I did leave him alone. He wont tell me details but just hung  up on me when I pressed for the truth.  Why Can't I just stop this? I did counselling myself. But still need help.

[Mint julep]

Love this man so much. But the chaos was unbearable. Broke up with him last October. Have not seen him but he calls,me alot. Yesterday he,ask me to marry him. My two adult children despise him. So much pain. is a fantastic lover. I am so lonely. Now I have deduced that he has had,sex with another. Makes me sick to my stomach but I did leave him alone. He wont tell me details but just hung  up on me when I pressed for the truth.  Why Can't I just stop this? I did counselling myself. But still need help.

[Mutt]

Hi Mint julep,  



I'd like to welcome you to bpdfamily. I'm glad that you decided to join the group. I can think of a couple of reasons with its tough to get a break-up with a pwBPD.

I think it's difficult for others to empathize how painful a divorce is unless you've gone through the experience. It's hard for people that haven't been in a r/s with someone that displays BPD traits to get it. It helps to talk to others that share similar experiences, many of us don't have someone to talk to about this in real life.

Some members have expressed that detaching from a pwBPD is like detoxing from drugs and alcohol, I think that's a fair assessment. Some member's don't hear from their pwBPD, some pwBPD will start an r/s before your r/s. They may not hear from their ex for a several weeks, months, years. Some pwBPD will continue to try to convince you to get back together again, the first camp is split black, the second is split white, it looks like you're in the second camp, I feel for you because it makes detaching that much harder. There is hope, you can detach.

[Mint julep]

Mutt, thank-you for responding! I really appreciate hearing from you. I thought about joining this forum after I read the "Stop Walking on Eggshells". But that was a year ago and I did not do it. Now trying to salvage my mental health. Thank again! mint julep

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Mint julep, The chaos you describe is likely to continue if you remain involved with this guy -- that's the reality, as you already know.  The drama -- asking you to marry him after nine months apart -- is typical for a pwBPD.  Don't kid yourself.  Your adult children despise him for a good reason.  Yet detaching from a pwBPD is hard, which is presumably why you continue to take his calls.  My T gave me some sage advice once: if you pick up something crazy, drop it.

LuckyJim

[calledandchosen]

Hi Mint Julep,

I like your user name, btw! My heart goes out to you right now, and before I continue typing here, I'm going to pray for God's wisdom in my response to you.

I can relate to your situation from my own firsthand experience.  I re-married my ex this last October and it didn't last, and I lost thousands of dollars and a great deal of pride.  I also hurt my kids.  The good thing about it though, was I hadn't realized that after two years apart, I truly wasn't over him.  I needed to figure things out on a deeper level of what it was inside of me that was getting so mixed up, and I think I've figured it out.  I'm not saying I don't still love the man, but I won't be with him.  Hopefully something I say here will click for you.

Things got really bad when you were together and you nearly lost all you'd worked so hard for, I am guessing (including your relationship with your kids).  I am also guessing that at least once, or many times, you promised yourself that you would never get back together with this person again.  Then you had to work hard to pick back up the pieces--and you did it!  Yet after picking up the pieces you are still left with all of these memories that haunt you and heavy feelings that are are now a part of you.  You loved him, still love him, and aren't sure how to live in a fashion that doesn't honor this kind of romantic love because it has been one of the greatest parts of your life.  Sound familiar?

The red flag I see right now, in both of our cases, is that we need a perspective that is larger than our own.  We need godly wisdom to figure this out.  I like to meditate on Character.  What is character to you? In God's eyes, it is a loving person.  I don't want to get kicked off this site, so I will avoid quoting scriptures, but it really helps me to ponder the fruit of the Spirit and the attributes of love: slow to anger, keeps no records of wrongs, patient, puts others ahead of himself, never fails, always hopes, always perseveres... . And the list goes on.  I know you love this man, but you deserve to be with a man of character. Just because he says one thing, doesn't make his word true and you know this in your heart.  If he was a man of character he would not have hurt you the way he has.  I know he has a troubled past and you feel bad for him, but you're not doing him any favors by enabling him, and you are killing your spirit by succumbing to his manipulation.  If he really wants to be with you, he's going to have to completely change, and if he is anything like my ex, he doesn't have that kind of motivation or patience.

Listen, abusive men are master manipulators and lovers.  They have to be.  Their life depends on it, because getting their romantic needs met "is" their life, which is a form of idolatry. This is where I get weak.  I have to remind myself that my life isn't just about romance and sex.  I have goals.  God gave me gifts to be used.  Idolatry
is ugly.  Sex addiction is about as beautiful as alcoholism.  We have lives to life and work to be done, beauty to create, children and grandchildren to enjoy, places to travel, friendships to nurture, books to be read and written, charities to help, bodies to be healed, and dates to be had with God where we walk peacefully in gardens marveling life.  Having this man by your side comes with a very heavy price.  I love what he does for you when you hear his voice or you see him and your entire body lights up, yes?  You can physically feel your reaction to him and it feels so good and so magical, yes?. And nobody else does it for you quite like this, yes? Well, that's the only crappy part.  That's the death grief.  You may miss him all of your life.  I don't know.  But you can't be in this relationship.  It's too one-sided (no matter what he says).  You can wait for him to change, while keeping your distance, or you can just move on and deal with the grief.  

But don't forget that your contact with him enables him to believe he doesn't need to change.  And don't forget that you deserve to be in a relationship where your emotional needs are being met---and I don't mean your sexual needs and the fact that he "moves you," I mean a relationship where your boundaries are respected and where you can be your true self (not your worst self) and where you have a partner that will help you work towards shared goals.  Marriage is supposed to be a legacy that is about building a life together that blesses many generations to come, not just this sexual/romantic story of obsession, a circle of Wuthering Heights-style pain.  We have to look at the big picture.  We have to hold these men accountable.  We have to shine!  We are valuable, Mint Julep!

[Mint julep]

Thank-you calledandchosen. I cant say how profoundly you were able to understand and explain to me what is happening as I try to stay away from my BPD ex. I agreed to see him in a public place today. After not seeing him since October I thought if I looked at him I might be repulsed but the risk is that I wont and will give into temptation. Yes as you said that is my "weak' spot because he is the most handsome and best bed partner I ever had. When I look back now I wander if all the wonderful things he said to me in bed were really true or done to manipulate me further. He moved his things into my house very soon after we began to sleep together. I am a professional person and make a significant amount of money. I have achieved a beautiful home. My fear is that is what he wants. He has a home that resembles a "hoard". Only paths thru the place. I could really never stay there as he always came here. He lives 2 hours away. This allowed me to pretend this part of his life did not exist. Not healthy. Although he says I never shared with him I believe I shared everything with him, my home, always cooking for him(he never lifted a finger) anything he did for me he demanded that I paid him. I even gave him gas money to come see  me as he is on disability. Although he is very physically strong and healthy. He told me he has Aspergers. I think this might also be true. Not sure so at first I attributed his odd personality, melt downs, high levels of conflict on that. I loved what you said about character and the fruits of the spirit. Been giving that a lot of thought. He was isolating me from my friends too not just my children. He had said rude things them all. He has barricaded me in my bed room twice for 2 hours to yell at me. Once I left MY home when he was out of control and when I would not come back HE called the police. I was so embarresed. AAHHH, I am actually afraid to see him again that is why I ask for any other encounter to be in a public place. Because he hung up on my last night when I again wanted more information on his sexual encounter I would say that I am off the hook about meeting him today in a public place and I am actually relieved. I can have a normal day without all the anxiety of what would happen when we saw each other... .I guess I'm rambling. Anyone who reads this far and still has advice... thanks and blessings... .Mint julep

[Gemsforeyes]

(First let me say, Calledandchosen, what you wrote was so eloquently put, spot on and very moving - thank you).

Mint Julep - I'm sorry you're facing this internal battle - and I hope for your emotional and physical wellbeing, it doesn't escalate into a "scene", even in a public setting. 

I have been out of my relationship since 4/17 and I haven't heard his screaming voice since that day.  There have been a few text messages and two emails where he sent me beautiful pictures of us.  When he tried getting sweet in a text, I was not agreeable.  I have had enough of him.  Too much pain for this lifetime.  I am certain that by now he has a new woman.  He HAS to have one, and that doesn't really bother me.  This sounds crass, but not many women are stupid enough to do for him what I did, so his delight won't last.

Each time my ex-BPD boyfriend would leave me in a rage and almost immediately beg to come back, he would come to my home, so I was pretty helpless against his tears and apologies.  I'm trying to figure out how much of my rolling over and playing dead was due to my almost total isolation.  That certainly has to play some role, because you become so lonely and he becomes your focus - he sees to that. 

I don't live near any of my friends anymore.  MY GOD, I JUST realized that when we were at the vacation rental for the last two summers  (in the town where I used to live and where all my friends are), he would rage, but he NEVER threatened to leave me until it was time to actually leave to come home!  Whoa! What does THAT mean?  But I digress... .

I have to say, there is one very large difference between my romantic situation and yours.  My ex was an incredible lover in the very beginning (we were together for over 3.5 years).  But after about 5 months together, it became ALL about me pleasing him.  He told me it "took too long for me... .that I had an "emotional block" and he couldn't help me".  I'm not kidding.  He turned into the laziest lover I've ever had.  It sounds like you at least derived some benefit for the duration?  My ex was also incredibly handsome.  We met online, and on our first in-person date, I told him I couldn't see him again because my mom had always told my not to date a man who was prettier than me.  He pursued me like mad.  Strangely, he would praise his beauty, and I would have to agree.  It's all so sick.

But here's something interesting.  I always LOVED his natural scent.  About  2 weeks after our breakup, I went into the guest room drawer and there was a t-shirt he had worn to sleep the night before he left me.  I was feeling sad, held it to my face to breathe in his scent, and literally gagged.  I could not BELIEVE my body's reaction.  I put it back, returned to the shirt about 15 minutes later and gagged again.  And I thought "wow, I must REALLY be over him!"  So i guess when you get punished enough, your body eventually says, "no more".

Often I think that if I had been aware of BPD perhaps I could have helped him; and then I wake up.  I was so distraught during much of this relationship.  This man is simply not a good person.  I have to remember that part.  I am keeping myself away from him by focusing on all of the horrible things he did to me, the lies he told, and the fact that his emotional and verbal abuse escalated to kicking a hole in a door.  That was my turning point.  My head could have been next.

All my best to you.

Stay strong and hold your head up high.
Gemsforeyes

[Mint julep]

Lucky Jim, I know you r right. I keep reading your post to reinforce the position that continued contact continues the chaos and drama.

[RealizationBPD]

MJ,  I feel your pain and I'm sorry to hear another person is going through this sort of thing.  I have went no contact with my BPD wife for the last 5 months.  However, with NC, there is the constant challenge to stick to it.  For us it is difficult because we work for the same company and we have to run into each other at least once a week.  But she makes it easier (not) because I'm in the black phase, so I'm dead to her anyway, which hurts.  I have read the premise of the NC rule over and over.  One theme is that NC is about protecting you, allowing time to pass to allow you to reset and get your equilibrium or homeostasis back, if you will.  I have been going through the motions of NC, as I think subconsciously thinking this will bring her back to earth.  However, I realize with the few contacts I have had that she has done too much damage to the relationship, combined with the fact she has accepted no wrong, and is in denial their is a problem. 

My question would be does your pwBPD know or admit to their being a problem? Also has he done to much too harm to he relationship for it to reconcilable.  If the answers are no and yes, I would suggest completely no further contact at all.  You will only hurt yourself as I have discovered through my own experiences.  I have yearned for some level of soothing from some sort of contact with this women, that I have gotten desperate for contact to only be horribly disappointed that nothing has changed or she is disrespectful to my inner core. 

Stay strong, stay busy!

[Mint julep]

Yes Realization... .the answer is just what you surmised. He does not believe he is the problem and yes his having sex with someone else (he says it was just testosterone) is too much for me and he wont discuss it. just hangs up the phone. I already have an STD that I got from him and I cant take anymore risks with my health. I have been reading the concepts of NC. Its really helpful to see it in writing. After several weeks I really start to miss him, especially at night... .thank-you for your support!
I am sorry to hear that you see your ex at work,,, that would be incredibly difficult and painful. I have only been on this website a couple of days but it helps to know there are others going thru the same thing at the same minute, the same hours that I am. I'm trying to plan and schedule things to do this summer that do not involve the same things that I enjoyed so much with him last summer... .

[Mint julep]

Thanks to all who replied. I especially resonate with Called and Chosen. My BPD is asking for a decision about our r/s. He wants a commitment from me. I once had told him I would commit (before I knew how crazy he is) but I just could not hold to it. He is ready to commit to another woman he has only known a few weeks and does not love just to be lifted out of a financial nightmare in his own life. I am restarting my T tomorrow. Have not seen therapist for about 4 months but need help again. I am in so much pain and anxiety. I don't see him ever changing. I am so lonely. My children just hate him. Going back would be so wonderful and so hard at the same time. I have been trying to decide for 8 months. He deserves an answer too.

[chillamom]

Hi, Mint Julep,

Like so many others, I absolutely understand the pain and the ache and the feeling of being torn.  I don't know how old your kids are, my 3 daughters are 19, 19 (twins) and 28….and they hate my ex with a passion.  Ultimately, this is what has helped to resolve the situation for me.

In fact, my kids hate him so much that they and several close friends planned to stage an intervention for me to get me to leave the latest recycle because they were all terrified of him and felt that he would hurt me (some termed him a "monster" but ultimately it didn't need to happen because the Universe intervened and I ended up in the hospital with a serious heart problem, triggered by the stress of it all, so I ended things Friday once and for all.

The point is, and I'm just sharing my experience…how could you really have a good, healthy, and lasting relationship with this man if your family wasn't on board?  Personally, going forward, I would want the man I was with to enjoy being with my kids and vice versa…I picture Holiday dinners with everyone together, playing (HOPEFULLY!) with grandkids together, and just having everyone feel free and comfortable to drop by and hang out with each other whenever possible.  Overall, Mint Julep, my kids were the major driving force in my finally ending the relationship…I TRIED over the 9 years he and I were together to patch things up between them, but he insulted, belittled, screamed and yelled at me so much and they KNEW that….getting them to "like him" was impossible.  (Oh, and he was also psychotic enough to say that my kids could maybe have a baby "for us" because I am too old to have more children and he wants them…he has not breathed the same AIR as my kids since that sentiment was expressed).

AND I feel I would have completely lost my relationship with my kids if I stayed with him (not to mention died of a heart attack, given my current medical situation…)

Anyway, that's my two cents.  Family first….and we are worth having a relationship with a man who will enjoy being around our kids as much as we do.  Good luck with your T appointment and I hope you can find some peace….the dichotomy of a relationship where it is simultaneously so wonderful and so hard is a terrible thing to have to resolve.

[lovenature]

You can't just stop this because you were involved in a very emotionally intense and bonding relationship with someone that has a very serious mental illness. When you are lonely and thinking it is better to stop the pain by having contact, remember how awful things were so much of the time. Think about how peaceful it is when you are alone, doing what you want when you want with no one to judge you and criticise you.

Keep reading and learning, it does get better.