1 year and still in the FOG

[MiaP]

It’s been almost a year since my exBPD first moved out of the house, where we lived with our 3 year old daugther and his 15 year old daughter from his first marriage. We were together for 8 years. During the past year we had some relapses, I know I gave him mixed signals in certain occasions but now I am absolutely sure I no longer want to be in a relationship with him because I have tried letting him get closer and every time, sooner or later, his abusive behaviour returns.

For some time I thought that I should try to stay for the kids, maybe I could make it work now that I understand a bit better where his behaviours come from. Maybe I could change the way I respond to his behaviours and we could make it work…But I just can’t.

I am not out of the FOG thought… Just this week I was told that he would rather shoot himself in the head than loose me and his daugthers…” I’m so tired of living in constant fear of what he’ll do, fear of his rages…
 
I want the children to spend time with him but he has been unable to be with the children on his own so we have been trying to spend time together.I wonder if it’s possible for us to spend time together as a family but having him understand that that does not mean the two of us are a couple…

I don’t want to keep giving mixed signals but I don’t know how to tell him that it’s over, there’s no way we’re ever getting back together.

[Lucky Jim]

I am not out of the FOG though… Just this week I was told that he would rather shoot himself in the head than loose me and his daugthers…” I’m so tired of living in constant fear of what he’ll do, fear of his rages…

Hey MiaP, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through and think it's important for you to continue to observe firm boundaries with your BPDx that you are no longer in a r/s.  Those w/BPD are experts at manipulating the Non through F-O-G.  I should know, because I was quite susceptible to it during my marriage to my BPDxW.  Nevertheless, you are aware of the F-O-G, which means you can decline to react when he attempts to twist your arm.  Threats of suicide constitute what some describe as the ultimate manipulation, so be careful and call 911 if needed.  Again, I should know, because my BPDxW threatened suicide several times, which was extremely stressful.  Hang in there and keep us posted on what you determine is the right path for you.

LuckyJim

[Harley Quinn]

Hi MiaP,

Sorry to hear that things are so tough for you.  I'm lucky in that I don't have children to connect me to my exBPDbf, although he was eager for us to have a baby so that we'd always have that 'connection' as he put it.  It makes more sense now, looking back and knowing what I now do.  I really feel for you and can say that as someone who did experience multiple suicide attempts from him and many awful incidents of self harm (cutting in front of me to manipulate my behaviour in his favour) it is the worst kind of emotional torture to endure.  Having someone hang that over your head is a heavy weight to bear.  My ex was also in the end not only emotionally abusive but physically violent towards me and I'm actually glad for that or I might have still been going through all of that now, in the hopes that I might help him heal.  

What I can say is that since getting help for the abuse I've been around enough abused women with children to know that what you're struggling with is totally natural and understandable.  So many are torn about the same thing and what to compromise on.  We all want what is best for our kids and most of us believe that means a healthy relationship and contact with both parents.  Previous generations before us stayed in unhappy situations 'for the sake of the kids' and I doubt the kids always learned some of the most valuable lessons in life through this.  The thing to remember is when one parent isn't healthy themselves and their behaviour is so unpredictable and unstable, it isn't a healthy relationship for those kids to have.  If his behaviour towards you has negative effects on you they will be all too aware of that so keeping away from that is going to be better all round.  I've learned that there are things that can be done to ensure that the children do have contact with the abusive parent which is safe and monitored, and doesn't mean that the other parent needs to be present or have any contact with their abuser.  I'd suggest you consider looking into this for your own sake and theirs.  Just to have the awareness of options available might make all this easier for you.  Children need positive role models and it may be our job in situations like this to show them how to love themselves and put their own well being first as opposed to bending our will for someone we love who's behaviours are harmful to themselves and others.  Standing strong could be the best thing you could do to break the cycle and give your family a real chance at happiness.  I hope you get the information and support that you need to help you through this difficult time. 


Love and light x    

[MiaP]

Hi Lucky Jim and Harley Quinn,

Nevertheless, you are aware of the F-O-G, which means you can decline to react when he attempts to twist your arm.  Threats of suicide constitute what some describe as the ultimate manipulation, so be careful and call 911 if needed.

What do you mean by "decline to react", I mean, what's the best way to respond in such a situation? It has happened before and even if I can keep calm, I'm not sure how to respond. Ignore what he just said and continue the conversation as if he hasn't just treatrend to kill himself? End the conversation?
 

I'm lucky in that I don't have children to connect me to my exBPDbf, although he was eager for us to have a baby so that we'd always have that 'connection' as he put it.

My exBPD was also so eager for us to have a baby! When the baby came, I was so happy, so fulfilled and in his mind something changed, no matter what I did, he felt neglected.

It's hard to endure suicide treaths, I just can't imagine how hard it must be to experience actual suicide attempts.

I have given up all hope that I can help him... .At least on a rational level, I know that there is no more I can do. On a deeper, emotional level, I'm not so sure because it's just very hard to deal with the fact that my family, the way I imagined it, the way it was for a short period, is now destroyed; it's hard to face that my D3 will not remember mum and dad together. Every day she asks me: "is daddy coming today?". It kills me having to answer her "No, daddy isn't coming today"... .

We all want what is best for our kids and most of us believe that means a healthy relationship and contact with both parents.  Previous generations before us stayed in unhappy situations 'for the sake of the kids' and I doubt the kids always learned some of the most valuable lessons in life through this.  

I totally agree, I always used to think that "staying in a r/s for the kids sake" was not a good thing but the truth is that when I saw myself this situation, I considered it.

The thing to remember is when one parent isn't healthy themselves and their behaviour is so unpredictable and unstable, it isn't a healthy relationship for those kids to have.  If his behaviour towards you has negative effects on you they will be all too aware of that so keeping away from that is going to be better all round.

Again, I couldn't agree more. I guess I'm just having a hard time facing that... .

I've learned that there are things that can be done to ensure that the children do have contact with the abusive parent which is safe and monitored, and doesn't mean that the other parent needs to be present or have any contact with their abuser.  I'd suggest you consider looking into this for your own sake and theirs.  Just to have the awareness of options available might make all this easier for you.

Do you mean supervised visitation? I'm not sure how that's done where we live but in my case, my exBPD has not been physically abusive. He is completely functional, has a job, is able to some extent to "hide" his "worst side" from most people who do not interact with him in a daily basis.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, MiaP,

No, I'm talking about not giving in to normal day-to-day attempts to manipulate you.  Threats of suicide are in a different category, in my view.  Let's take one at a time.

Typical garden-variety manipulation involves an attempt to persuade/coerce a person to do something, usually through F-O-G.  What I'm suggesting is that you decline to give in to such manipulation, by holding your own through good boundaries.  You can say something like, "I hear you are trying to twist my arm, but I'm not going participate in xyz for the reasons I previously stated (reiterate your boundary, here)."  Suggest you stay firm, without retreating or attacking.

Suicide threats, I suggest, should always be taken seriously.  You could say something like, "I care about you and hear you are in pain, but if you continue to threaten suicide I will have no choice but to call 911."  I would also suggest reaching out to friends and family of the pwBPD, to alert them.  In my view, suicide threats require help from a professional, because most of us are neither trained nor equipped to handle them.  There is also a suicide hotline that you can call.

Does this distinction make sense to you?

LuckyJim

[Harley Quinn]

Hi MiaP,

Yes I was talking about supervised visitation.  Where I live that would mean the use of a contact centre and the professionals are there to supervise.  It means one parent drops the children off and collects them but is not there for the duration of the supervised time, meaning no contact is necessary between the two parents.  I hear what you're saying about physical abuse, however don't forget that emotional abuse is still abuse and can be just as destructive for yourself and the kids if they are directly or indirectly impacted by it. 

Perhaps have a bit of a look online and read up first before committing to anything formal.  See then how you feel about it.  Ultimately the children need a healthy happy mother to support and guide them.  So look at yourself first and ask yourself honestly what the options would do for your own well being.  I often check with myself about what I'm showing my son is OK to accept or not.  I might make different decisions if I were single and not a parent, with only myself and my own limits to consider.  If your ex is responsible and behaves in an acceptable way around the children and you are happy and comfortable with the situation that's great.  However if not it might be time to get some advice from a local agency who can help you if you've concerns about the best way to keep up child contact for everyone's best interests to be accounted for.

Best of luck with it x

[MiaP]

Hi,


the distinction does makes sense to me. Unfortunatetly there is no one in his family that I can contact in case of such an emergency, he has no contact with his family in years. He makes friends very easily but is not able to keep friendships for very long, he always ends up breaking contact with people for one reason or another.

Regarding what you call "typical garden-variety manipulation" I try not to give in but sometimes it´s hard, especially mantaining a neutral tone of voice because that makes me angry and he is always able to detect the slitest change in my tone of voice... .Sometimes I feel like I can't be my true self around him, I can't get mad, I can't be angry, I have to always make that extra effort to understand him, to understand why he acts the way he does. We started the relationship as equals, as two people who are supposed to support each other but somewhere along the way I was given all the responsability to understand and support.