95% sure I'm going to file

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi everyone,

I'm 36, married to my 38 uBPDw for 5 years.  We have a 4-year-old son.

I started posting here a week or so ago.  There's a relatively lengthy thread here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=310633.0

It was recommended that I start a thread on this board.  I met with an attorney for the first time on Monday.  She seemed very concerned about my wife's behavior and strongly encouraged filing for divorce soon.  My dad, who has offered to pay all my legal fees, agrees wholeheartedly.  (He has always been extremely hesitant about my marriage.  I finally opened up honestly to him about a week ago about how bad things really are.)

My wife has a huge fear of abandonment.  She has a frequently recurring dream that I leave her, and often I find myself promising that I won't leave.  Things have been especially bad recently, as she is switching antidepressants and her chronic auto-immune disorder is especially nasty right now (in particular, frequent fainting).  And she found out about the attorney consultation, which has shaken her trust in me.  She has equated divorce with "killing" her, as I provide almost all the income and the health insurance.  The last few days in particular have been very stressful, as she as at peak depression, complete with multiple suicide threats (two prompting 911 calls).  She has cut off all communication with her family, to the point that her sister and stepmother have both called me out of concern.

So at this point, I'm almost positive that I want to leave the marriage.  Today, I found myself promising yet again that I won't leave (as opposed to the last two days, where I hedged with qualifiers like "I don't want to leave you" or "I don't know if I want a divorce."

Anyway, my idea right now is maybe wait a few more days until her new meds really kick in and she's in a slightly better, less suicide-y place, and then file.  I hate lying to her, but I can't handle her extreme depression -- I haven't slept well or gotten any work done for my job in days.

Any thoughts?

[prof]

Hi everyone,

I'm 36, married to my 38 uBPDw for 5 years.  We have a 4-year-old son.

I started posting here a week or so ago.  There's a relatively lengthy thread here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=310633.0

It was recommended that I start a thread on this board.  I met with an attorney for the first time on Monday.  She seemed very concerned about my wife's behavior and strongly encouraged filing for divorce soon.  My dad, who has offered to pay all my legal fees, agrees wholeheartedly.  (He has always been extremely hesitant about my marriage.  I finally opened up honestly to him about a week ago about how bad things really are.)

My wife has a huge fear of abandonment.  She has a frequently recurring dream that I leave her, and often I find myself promising that I won't leave.  Things have been especially bad recently, as she is switching antidepressants and her chronic auto-immune disorder is especially nasty right now (in particular, frequent fainting).  And she found out about the attorney consultation, which has shaken her trust in me.  She has equated divorce with "killing" her, as I provide almost all the income and the health insurance.  The last few days in particular have been very stressful, as she as at peak depression, complete with multiple suicide threats (two prompting 911 calls).  She has cut off all communication with her family, to the point that her sister and stepmother have both called me out of concern.

So at this point, I'm almost positive that I want to leave the marriage.  Today, I found myself promising yet again that I won't leave (as opposed to the last two days, where I hedged with qualifiers like "I don't want to leave you" or "I don't know if I want a divorce."

Anyway, my idea right now is maybe wait a few more days until her new meds really kick in and she's in a slightly better, less suicide-y place, and then file.  I hate lying to her, but I can't handle her extreme depression -- I haven't slept well or gotten any work done for my job in days.

Any thoughts?

[HopefulDad]

If you made up your mind to file, then file.  Her problems like fear of abandonment, fears of financial solvency and suicidal thoughts are hers, not yours.

Now while that may sound harsh and blunt, that doesn't mean you have to deliver the message in a similar manner.  You can break the news to her that you've filed in a soft way should you desire.  In anticipation of that, you can recruit her sister and stepmother to be on call to help if this is something they want to do so they can support her in case you indeed fear she'll do something drastic.

She sounds like she's severely troubled so I don't think you will ever find the perfect time to file.  Even if she gets to a less suicide-y place, perhaps your filing triggers those thoughts again.  You cannot control it.  Accept that.  Whether she responds fine or poorly is not your doing, not your fault.  Accept that, too.

[takingandsending]

Hi prof.

I can appreciate that you don't want to cause harm here, and you have identified what you need and what is likely best for your D4. You can try to rationalize in your head, but  often there is never a good time or place to inform someone, i.e. there is no easy way out.

One thing that we know does help pwBPD is clear, consistent boundaries. So, telling your wife that you won't leave her when you intend to is actually harmful ... .to you and to her. Staying or leaving isn't what forms your boundary, though - your values do. If you feel that part of what makes you you is standing on your own two feet, not making others feel guilty/responsible for your feelings, treating others with consideration, build your boundaries around that and be consistent in them.

If your wife is in crisis, that is immediate, and calling 911 is the appropriate measure to take. You are not responsible for knowing how real or made up the crisis is, which is the entrapment that pwBPD sometimes angle for. HopefulDad is correct in that you are not responsible for how she feels and never will be. There will always be a trigger; our mistake is in thinking that we can remove the trigger. Ask/arrange for support for yourself, for her and for your daughter when you let her know that you want a divorce.

[prof]

How do I tell her softly that I've decided I definitely want to divorce?

Just meeting with an attorney turned into a 48-hour epic rage-fest with threats of pressing abuse charges or committing suicide.  It only ended when some pet-related drama took her attention.

I struggle setting boundaries with her anger.  If I tell her that I won't listen to her unless she speaks to me respectfully and go to another room, she follows me, continuing to rage even if S4 is right there.  Or she'll position herself near the doorway so I couldn't leave the room if I wanted to.

Sometimes I successfully leave the house in these situations, but other times, she will take my car keys or physically prevent me from shutting my car door.

I'm hesitant to leave the house anyway.  My attorney urged me not to leave S4 alone with her.  Also, her family members and psychiatrist are all worried about suicide attempts and are reassured by my presence in the home with her.

This is so exhausting.

[HopefulDad]

You simply tell her softly, "I'm filing for divorce." You don't owe her a huge JADE session over your decision, but seeing that she's your wife it's probably a good idea to say some reasons why, even if generic, but use "we/our" words rather than blaming words ("We're not a good fit", "Our communication is toxic and I've decided to remove myself and my role in that", "I don't want our dysfunction to be how our son views marriage".  If she tries to turn it into an interrogation, tell her you've said what you wanted to say and leave if she gets abusive.

Whether you say it softly or scream it angrily to her, you cannot control her response, vitriolic or not.  So why worry about that?  Tell her softly because you want to be the adult in the room, not because you think you can mitigate her anger.

[HopefulDad]

Sometimes I successfully leave the house in these situations, but other times, she will take my car keys or physically prevent me from shutting my car door.

I had to deal with stuff like this.  If she does things to block you from leaving, you pull out your cell phone and tell her, "I have a right to leave.  You're denying me this right.  If you continue to do so, I'm calling the police."  And follow through if she doesn't relent.   In my case, just the threat alone was game-changing.  She never did that crap again.

[Sluggo]

I struggle setting boundaries with her anger.  If I tell her that I won't listen to her unless she speaks to me respectfully and go to another room, she follows me, continuing to rage even if S4 is right there.  Or she'll position herself near the doorway so I couldn't leave the room if I wanted to.

Ditto Ditto Ditto... .  The funniest moment (not at the time though), is that I went out the bedroom window when she would not let me out. 

I would start recording your time in the house by using a recording app on your phone.  I just kept the phone in my pocket.   I learned that here and it has been invaluable.
1.  I have been able to play the recording when the police came after she wrong fully alleged.
2.  I replayed it the next day after an argument to see if I really did misunderstand her or misinterpret the situation. 
3.  I replayed for our marriage counselor who encouraged it.  She also encourage video taping (video taping we both were aware of)
4.  I was able to play it for my lawyer. 
5.  I was able to play it for the custody evaluator.
6.  I have listened to the recordings again after I did file for divorce as a reminder about how bad it was. 

[ForeverDad]

Playing recordings or making a big deal about recording, such as waving it in the other's face, can trigger overreactions so it is genrally best to record in the background.  That is, without fanfare.  I usually tried to put my recorder in my shirt pocket.  In my pants pocket there was a swish-swish every time I walked.

That was when there were relatively few recording devices.  Today there are many types.  I've even seen ads for pencams, pens with cameras and they even write.

Of course, if you record (or you suspect the spouse might record) then everything you say needs to sound and be angelic.  Nothing that could be twisted into a threat or aggressiveness.  That means no angry retorts, no shouting back, no matter how much your spouse tries to anger you.  That's why I wrote "angelic".  The most dangerous time for us usually is just before, during or after a separation or divorce filing.  Also just before a hearing, seems they want some papers to wave around as they walk in.  That's when the other spouses are more likely to try to make us look worse than them.

[takingandsending]

HopefulDad is correct. Attempts to obstruct you from leaving the house is DV.

Prof, you do need to plan this carefully. Have family or support nearby when you tell her. Call them is she prevents you from leaving and ask them to knock on the door to assist. When my ex wife was in a dysregulated rage, I would often tell her that I was getting upset, that I would leave for 30 minutes with the boys and would be back to discuss it when I was calm. And I did come back in 30 minutes and more often than not, she had moved on to that "pet-related drama" to avoid being with her feelings, which is what this illness is about. These boundaries gradually helped me move on from this relationship, and even though I am still in midst of divorce, I feel so much better than I did while still in the toxic stew.

I agree with recording and with calling the police if she continues to block/prevent you from listening/accommodating her rant. You need to protect yourself and your child, not her. You cannot protect her from herself. That is something that she has to learn to do herself.

[sfbayjed]

She is not going to take it well no matter what you do.

It is not legal to not let you leave. She could technically get in trouble for that but she has already threatened you with false allegations. That you can not ignore. It is very serious. If she made that threat during an argument this is a weapon she has made available to herself in her arsenal as acceptable to use in certain situations. If she said that you have to leave.

In the real world the police will have a hard time taking serious an accusation that your wife wont let you leave. You could call a taxi, call a friend, walk away, ect.    They will take seriously the convincing lies of a BPD in victim mode and they will arrest you and take you to jail.  I know this first hand.

[ForeverDad]

In the real world the police will have a hard time taking serious an accusation that your wife wont let you leave. You could call a taxi, call a friend, walk away, etc.  They will take seriously the convincing lies of a BPD in victim mode and they will arrest you and take you to jail.  I know this first hand.

While I was never arrested, I remember Maxwell Smart's famous words, "I missed it by 'that much'!"  I had called the emergency number.  Two officers responded, one drove a barking canine vehicle.  One talked to me.  I think both talked to her.  I had time to walk over with my preschooler in my arms, to see the dog.  He was curious and was distracted from his crying.  In time one officer asked me to hand my son over to his mother and "step away".  Frankly, it wasn't until later I was choosing a divorce lawyer when I realized what that probably meant.  He said officers responding to a domestic dispute have a policy to always leave with one of the persons to end the immediate incident.  Back to the story, I tried to pry my son off to hand him over to his mother.  He shrieked and clung even tighter to me, tears flowing again.  I stepped over to the officer and gave an expression that said "at least I tried".  After all, what would it take for a child to refuse to leave his father and go to his mother?  The officer pondered for a long moment and said, "Work it out.  They left.  No one was carted off that day.  My Lesson Learned was... .My son saved me that day.  I don't know what she told the officers but I'm sure she played Victim.  After all, despite her declaring earlier she would kill me, she got the DV pamphlet and I didn't.

[Grey Kitty]

This sounds a bit harsh and manipulative, but I'd recommend telling you that you are filing for divorce as part of your divorce/custody filing plan.

If you can consult with lawyers enough to make your plan for how you will file WITHOUT TIPPING HER OFF, do the full plan.

Make sure that you understand the legal consequences of your plans/options.

Also do think about how she is likely to react, when you decide how to tell her. Safety (yours and your child's) is the first consideration. Being as kind as possible in how you tell her (without unneeded risks!) also counts. Being served is a lot harsher than a simple statement in person "I'm filing for divorce".

I'm hesitant to leave the house anyway.  My attorney urged me not to leave S4 alone with her.  Also, her family members and psychiatrist are all worried about suicide attempts and are reassured by my presence in the home with her.

That is a really tough situation to be in--if you cannot leave, you are required to be there as a target of abuse.

And everybody is telling you that for your wife's safety, you need to be there.

You get stuck in a no-win trapped situation that way.

Big question: WHY does your attorney urge you not to leave S4 alone with her? What risk is he trying to protect you from?

Sometimes I successfully leave the house in these situations, but other times, she will take my car keys or physically prevent me from shutting my car door.

As others have said, this kind of thing legally qualifies as DV. Be careful to keep yourself from getting trapped, keep your keys/phone/wallet on you or where she cannot easily get to them first, and seriously consider calling police if she blocks your exit.

[ForeverDad]

Just meeting with an attorney turned into a 48-hour epic rage-fest with threats of pressing abuse charges or committing suicide.  It only ended when some pet-related drama took her attention.

How did she find out you met with an attorney?  Did you feel obligated or guilted into telling her?  Did you feel you have to share everything with her?  Does she have a pattern of interrogating you endlessly?  All of the above?

Well, it is appropriate to share information when you're trying to make a marriage work.  Doesn't have to be literally all information either.  But when a marriage or relationship is ending (or imploding) then you have a right to include more topics to your confidential or privacy categories.  Yes, view that as resetting your boundaries for a changed situation.