quick and painful recycle

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi gang-- Trying to stay above water here, and do what I think Skip recommended-- stay in touch when we are in the middle of a recycle (I think I might be at the tail end of it though). It has been a whirlwind 5 days together after a year of being broken up-- there have some moments of intense joy but also lots and lots of difficult stuff, and I think I may have been discarded already. I feel the crushing pain of the discard now and the urge to fight it, but I am trying to accept it as part of the idealization-devaluation-discard cycle. Now the word re-cycle has extra meaning for me-- it is going through the cycle again.

[kc sunshine]

Hi gang-- Trying to stay above water here, and do what I think Skip recommended-- stay in touch when we are in the middle of a recycle (I think I might be at the tail end of it though). It has been a whirlwind 5 days together after a year of being broken up-- there have some moments of intense joy but also lots and lots of difficult stuff, and I think I may have been discarded already. I feel the crushing pain of the discard now and the urge to fight it, but I am trying to accept it as part of the idealization-devaluation-discard cycle. Now the word re-cycle has extra meaning for me-- it is going through the cycle again.

[roberto516]

I'm sorry kc. The recycle can be very painful and I would definitely recommend continuing to share about what is going on sooner rather than later. How did it start up again? Were you not in contact for a year? Who reached out to who?

I will tell you how I knew I was heading for the discard during the recycle. For one week she stopped texting me asking me to come over or saying "I love you" "I wish you were here". which is what she was saying once we started up again. For the last week I kept telling her in response to questions she had "Because I love you." She didn't say it back. And then the whole lack of communication from her anymore. It was just... .distant. This is only my experience but if any of this rings true for you it could be a sign.

[chillamom]

Oh, kc, I'm sorry that this is taking place again and that you're in pain…I'm very glad you posted on here and I think it's brave to do so.  I'm in a similar spot for the last two weeks after much begging on the part of my ex, and it is of course going nowhere and I need to nip it in the bud before further destruction ensues…... you and I have been doing this dance for quite a while, and I know you have been quite resolute at times, as have I.  I know you were NC/LC and all kinds of things in between…. what the heck has such a hold on us that we invited this pain back in? 

Here's to gathering some renewed strength from the realization that it doesn't change... .

[Sunfl0wer]

I kinda suspect many pwBPD recycle because they are not happy with how things ended, and they want a redo ending.  (The sense of ending in their head, not one you see.  Even if they left you, could be cause they thought they better kick u to curb before it is done to them, so even if they left, could still want to create a new ending for how they store this in their head.) Idk if this is the case for you, but just putting it out there.  Some seem to be offended at feeling abandoned and simply want to prove to themself that they "can get ya back if they really wanted."  I think it has a lot to do with a person who is seeking external stuff for a sense of self worth.

However, same applies to us, our self worth is not dependent on another person, unless that is what we make it to be dependent on.  (Easier said than done.  I know I certainly felt hugely rejected from my ex, so just saying, not saying I got it all figured out myself tho.)

[IsThisThingOn]

Hi gang-- Trying to stay above water here, and do what I think Skip recommended-- stay in touch when we are in the middle of a recycle (I think I might be at the tail end of it though). It has been a whirlwind 5 days together after a year of being broken up-- there have some moments of intense joy but also lots and lots of difficult stuff, and I think I may have been discarded already. I feel the crushing pain of the discard now and the urge to fight it, but I am trying to accept it as part of the idealization-devaluation-discard cycle. Now the word re-cycle has extra meaning for me-- it is going through the cycle again.

I dont know what I am more afraid of right now... .the fact that my ex might recycle or that she wont.

That feels insane to even say and feel. The anxiety of her potentially recycling is crippling because I am very much so in love with her and even though I hate everything she has done (and is still currently doing from a distance at this point) ... .I think the anxiety that I may never actually hear from her again is more frightening.

I've posted about my situation pretty in-depth. Im sure its been said before but I dont know... .I do feel my situation was different in the sense that it was 90% good and 10% REALLY bad. After the bad times we were even able to both acknowledge how bad it really was whenever that 10% rolled around.  She may be lost in a very DEEP episode of her disorder but for the most part she is extremely high functioning. She's fully capable of acknowledging the bad and that what was said/done in those moments was extra unnecessary... .that is, until she goes COMPLETELY black and then it seems hope is lost. It's almost like she has a little spot in her head reserved for the people who have gone completely black. She puts them there and then forcibly sticks her heels in the ground and truly whole-heartedly believes shes completely right.  I dont know if I remember a time where she let someone leave that little "box" -- sorry for the ramble... .

Point is: I see how hard the recycle is. I've experienced it with her as a matter of fact. I guess my anxiety and current struggle comes over:

1. did she put me in that little box and will never recycle me again?

2. do I want to be recycled? if I do, is it because I think maybe this is salvageable? Thats a dangerous thought isnt it? Feels like setting myself up for failure.

3. Oh god, what if she never recycles me again and I never hear from the person I truly believe is the love of my life/best friend again?

followed almost immediately with:

4. Please, please dont recycle me. Unless you've gotten help and are on the road to recovery, PLEASE just leave. me. alone!


Slippery slope these thoughts are 

[tryingsome]

. the fact that my ex might recycle or that she wont.

... .I do feel my situation was different in the sense that it was 90% good and 10% REALLY bad.

Hello NewLifeNow, I am going to a do a little cut-and-paste action here as I thought those two statements are on the road to your recovery (though I have been known to be wrong).

Look at the first statement; to me that is two sides of the same coin. What do you think is the underlying message/lesson here? It has very little to do with her, but a lot about your potential growth.

On the 2nd point, I am not going to belabor the term 'different' but want to focus on the percentages and their perhaps the inner workings of the relationship. We all know that relationships have their ups and downs, enveloped in some good points and some bad points. Bad points are okay (no one is perfect) but what are REALLY BAD points? When we talk about bad points, we often refer to differences in one's opinion or personality; things that grate us. These 'bad points' can be good to create a more well rounded perspective of the world. HOWEVER, when someone references 'really bad', that usually implies abuse. And it doesn't matter if that is 75% of the time or even 1% of the time; no individual and no relationship should tolerate a CYCLE of abuse. It is one thing to be mean once; learn from that mistake and never proceed, but quite another thing to go through the same abuse patterns over and over again.

And to put into finite terms; 10% would indicate after 9 days of bliss you would incur 1 day of abuse? That should not be tolerated.

[IsThisThingOn]

HOWEVER, when someone references 'really bad', that usually implies abuse. And it doesn't matter if that is 75% of the time or even 1% of the time; no individual and no relationship should tolerate a CYCLE of abuse. It is one thing to be mean once; learn from that mistake and never proceed, but quite another thing to go through the same abuse patterns over and over again.

And to put into finite terms; 10% would indicate after 9 days of bliss you would incur 1 day of abuse? That should not be tolerated.

Hi Tryingsome,

Theres no denying that at times verbal and mental abuse occurred. Denying it would do no good. As she moved me further and further into the black, the worse each outburst was. Meaner, angrier, almost hate fueled. It was like the soul was completely sucked out of her... .a noticeable change in the look in her eyes. It's interesting because I always said how it was like you could SEE the change in her eyes whenever she was about to have an outburst.  Before my own path of BPD recovery people used to say the same about me. I never really understood it until I saw it in her. Now it makes perfect sense. I wonder if anyone else on these forums has ever noticed this?

Physical abuse was not a thing, no. There was one instance and it never happened again. Of course she would claim it did because she knew just how badly that one instance really affected me. When she wanted to get under my skin, all bets were off. But no, physical never ever happened after that one incident. Although that one incident should not have happened either.

I am also not suggesting it was "9 days of bliss followed by 1 of abuse" -- My point was we had our normal tiffs that would come and go without outbursts. Minor annoyances or disagreements that would pass and we would go about our day just fine. Your normal disagreements or bickering that would quickly be dismissed and everything was everything.

The, as I put it, REALLY BAD times were after she had already begun to split me. She only began to split me once I acknowledged that she may in fact be BPD. When she realized I could see what was truly going on with her, she felt like the charade of her being "the most perfect, beautiful, polite, intelligent, well-liked/loved" individual was shattered. Regardless of the fact that even in knowing she was BPD I still thought all those things about her, she cannot handle being anything less than perfect.

It was one of her biggest things. What people think about her, as much as she denies it, truly matters to her. She wants to be known as the smartest, the best dressed, the one who "has it all together" ... .she loves when people go to her with questions or advice. She feeds off of it. She cannot handle/does not tolerate anyone who sees her as anything less than #1 in every single aspect.  I'm not the first who she has devalued and discarded because of seeing she does have things she needs to work through.

Now the word re-cycle has extra meaning for me-- it is going through the cycle again.

Apologies KC Shunshine -- The intention was not to hijack your post.

My response stemmed from the quote I posted above -- "going through the cycle again." -- Aside from what we actually mean by "cycle and recycle" in this context, I find that the personal cycle me, and possibly others on here, go through is that "do I want to be recycled?", "what if they dont recycle me?", "can I handle not being recycled?", "Please please do not recycle me" -- The cycle of our own thoughts/anxieties/fears of recovering from this entire ordeal... .if that makes sense?

[kc sunshine]

Not at all-- hijack away!

I think what happened to me is that her girlfriend broke up with her and she was open to me for a bit (she was also open to me when she and her girlfriend were having trouble-- I think she idealized me a bit in that time). Once we were together, I think she saw all the things that made her angry before again and she quickly moved to the devaluation stage. I could have played it cooler and we might have had a better time of it but when she was texting a lot with the ex-girlfriend and her other ex and get hot and cold with me then I started to get morose and kinda of clingy... .the total recipe for a discard! And discard she did... .dang.

I'm feeling a little more release from it though. I'm not sure why--  maybe it is because it all went so quickly this time (maybe our 4th time around?) Also the stories she told me about what happened with her ex were disturbing. I guess she shoved her. Oh man.

I hope my heart learned what I needed to learn to have my heart and head be in congruence.

[JQ]

Hello KC,

It's been a minute or two hasn't it ... .but I see you're reaching up for a hand up from the group in the ":)etaching from Wounds of a Failed BPD R/S." and I see you're still going back and forth with your exPBD.  I truly wish you peace & strength that you & every other NON who has had the back & forth r/s with a pwBPD.  It is truly a demoralizing, incredibly hurtful & the most dysfunctional r/s 2 people can have.  As the book "The Human Magnet Syndrome" points out ... .why codependents and narcissists are perfect “dancing partners.” The giving, sacrificial and passive codependent perfectly matches up with the entitled, demanding and self-centered narcissists.

These perfectly matched dancers always seem to nail their dance routines, which is to be expected because they have been practicing them their whole lives. Although unhappy, codependents continue their miserably unstable and painfully neglectful relationship(s) because of their fear of deeply painful loneliness.  So what starts off as rainbow & unicorns between the NON & the pwBPD aka "soul mate" experience, it will predictably devolves into a cellmate nightmare as you've pointed out in your post.

I've been there myself like you, like others with more than pwBPD in my life. It wasn't until the last BPDgf told me she had BPD that I knew anything about BPD. Then through A LOT of therapy, SELF EVALUATION, and being honest, REALLY honest with myself that I saw history was once again repeating itself & I wanted to get off this crazy train for good.

Looking back at my history I saw the same BPD traits from the romantic r/s in my life with my step mother. I was replacing her with other BPD women in my life. I then saw her brother, a step sister & a 1/2 brother having the same flying monkey behavior. I like the book points out sacrificed myself time and time again for fear of being alone. I tried to fix them because I was conditioned to believe growing up if I "fixed" them then the r/s would be fine. In reality history just repeated itself, again, again and again.

I've seen your post for sometime now & you continue to do the same thing I did ... .if I do XYZ or behave this way it'll fix everything and they'll stay around this time. If I'm better at loving them, they won't let their flying monkey's loose or Dr. Jekyll won't turn into Mr./Mrs Hyde and in reality NOTHING of what YOU do, say, behave is EVER going to change them. They have a Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness that is currently beyond modern science, medicine either surgical or pharmaceutical to fix on a permanent basis. As you've learned in the group the best ANYONE can hope for is a temporary limited management of the condition.

You received some good guidance here from the group. Recycle is JUST THAT~! RECYCLED~!  It will never stop until YOU decide it will stop. YOU will continued to be recycled time & time again. You will feel like crap again and again.  I once read a post that someone equated a NON & BPD r/s like this. The NON is like a field of flowers, bright, colorful, renewing, positive energy bringing good to the world. Than the pwBPD comes into your little field of flowers and burns it down to the dirt leaving no signs of life. At a time of their choosing which you will never know they walked the scorched earth looking for any signs of green ... .and when they find it they stomp it back down trying to kill it once again. As a NON we are the ever positive person always trying to grow.

Newlifenow ask some really good question and offers some thought to them ... .

1. did she put me in that little box and will never recycle me again?

2. do I want to be recycled? if I do, is it because I think maybe this is salvageable? Thats a dangerous thought isnt it? Feels like setting myself up for failure.

3. Oh god, what if she never recycles me again and I never hear from the person I truly believe is the love of my life/best friend again?

followed almost immediately with:

4. Please, please dont recycle me. Unless you've gotten help and are on the road to recovery, PLEASE just leave. me. alone!

We all should know that ANY idea of a r/s with our respective BPD is NOT salvageable from our respective learning from books, therapy and the continued recycle stories we see here in the group. There is the fear as they point out that we WANT to be recycled because we as NON's are afraid to be alone. Listen ... .WE are in CONTROL of OUR future~!  As you learned in your therapy WE need to love our selves first and NOT depend on OTHERS for our happiness.  YOU, ME & EVERY OTHER PERSON in this particular group, ":)etaching from Wounds" are trying to get to a place where we can let them go. Let go of the pain they caused, let go of the continued recycle, let go of their flying monkey's. NOT YOUR CIRCUS~! NOT YOUR MONKEY'S~!

BUUUT in order to do that ... .YOU have to be happy with yourself. YOU have to know in your heart that you are a good person, you are an amazing person, you are a caring & loving person and that you're ok with being alone ... .and when the RIGHT person who RESPECTS YOU for who YOU are & is worthy of your friendship, love, that you'll let them into your world ... .to share it ... .not for THEM to DOMINATE it~!

You're a very smart person who only wants to be loved for who you are KC. You've learned about idealization-devaluation-discard cycle and you also have learned that this will repeat itself time and time again UNTIL YOU put an end to it. You know what you have to do to do that too, NC ... .block, never return emails, phone calls, text. Only then will you truly begin to heal from this. Only then will you truly be on the path of healing and moving forward in your life. Only then will you treat yourself in the way you deserve too and only then will you truly get to a place in your life that you will love yourself to share yourself with someone who truly deserves the caring, loving person I know you are ... .

I commend you on holding out a hand to the group ... .and as promised the group is here to help you up, dust you off and pat you on the butt to get you walking your journey again. Maybe choose a different path this time ... .one that doesn't have a loop back to this same crossroads ... .

I wish you continued strength & peace KC ... .

J

[kc sunshine]

JQ I always love your replies so much!

and from "soulmate" to "cellmate" is so apt.

oh man, I'm don't want to be too optimistic and I'm still running things over in my head, but I think I might finally finally be released from it. Perhaps I feel this release because she is finally released from it and that our empathic connection has been broken? Or maybe because hearing about her last relationship (my replacement) made my heart more clearly understand that it was a pattern (my head understood it before, but my heart really didn't). Or maybe she wasn't treating me well and I do want to be treated well.

Will this feeling of release last? Or will the pain of the discard snap back on me?



 

Hello KC,

It's been a minute or two hasn't it ... .but I see you're reaching up for a hand up from the group in the ":)etaching from Wounds of a Failed BPD R/S." and I see you're still going back and forth with your exPBD.  I truly wish you peace & strength that you & every other NON who has had the back & forth r/s with a pwBPD.  It is truly a demoralizing, incredibly hurtful & the most dysfunctional r/s 2 people can have.  As the book "The Human Magnet Syndrome" points out ... .why codependents and narcissists are perfect “dancing partners.” The giving, sacrificial and passive codependent perfectly matches up with the entitled, demanding and self-centered narcissists.

These perfectly matched dancers always seem to nail their dance routines, which is to be expected because they have been practicing them their whole lives. Although unhappy, codependents continue their miserably unstable and painfully neglectful relationship(s) because of their fear of deeply painful loneliness.  So what starts off as rainbow & unicorns between the NON & the pwBPD aka "soul mate" experience, it will predictably devolves into a cellmate nightmare as you've pointed out in your post.

I've been there myself like you, like others with more than pwBPD in my life. It wasn't until the last BPDgf told me she had BPD that I knew anything about BPD. Then through A LOT of therapy, SELF EVALUATION, and being honest, REALLY honest with myself that I saw history was once again repeating itself & I wanted to get off this crazy train for good.

Looking back at my history I saw the same BPD traits from the romantic r/s in my life with my step mother. I was replacing her with other BPD women in my life. I then saw her brother, a step sister & a 1/2 brother having the same flying monkey behavior. I like the book points out sacrificed myself time and time again for fear of being alone. I tried to fix them because I was conditioned to believe growing up if I "fixed" them then the r/s would be fine. In reality history just repeated itself, again, again and again.

I've seen your post for sometime now & you continue to do the same thing I did ... .if I do XYZ or behave this way it'll fix everything and they'll stay around this time. If I'm better at loving them, they won't let their flying monkey's loose or Dr. Jekyll won't turn into Mr./Mrs Hyde and in reality NOTHING of what YOU do, say, behave is EVER going to change them. They have a Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness that is currently beyond modern science, medicine either surgical or pharmaceutical to fix on a permanent basis. As you've learned in the group the best ANYONE can hope for is a temporary limited management of the condition.

You received some good guidance here from the group. Recycle is JUST THAT~! RECYCLED~!  It will never stop until YOU decide it will stop. YOU will continued to be recycled time & time again. You will feel like crap again and again.  I once read a post that someone equated a NON & BPD r/s like this. The NON is like a field of flowers, bright, colorful, renewing, positive energy bringing good to the world. Than the pwBPD comes into your little field of flowers and burns it down to the dirt leaving no signs of life. At a time of their choosing which you will never know they walked the scorched earth looking for any signs of green ... .and when they find it they stomp it back down trying to kill it once again. As a NON we are the ever positive person always trying to grow.

Newlifenow ask some really good question and offers some thought to them ... .

1. did she put me in that little box and will never recycle me again?

2. do I want to be recycled? if I do, is it because I think maybe this is salvageable? Thats a dangerous thought isnt it? Feels like setting myself up for failure.

3. Oh god, what if she never recycles me again and I never hear from the person I truly believe is the love of my life/best friend again?

followed almost immediately with:

4. Please, please dont recycle me. Unless you've gotten help and are on the road to recovery, PLEASE just leave. me. alone!

We all should know that ANY idea of a r/s with our respective BPD is NOT salvageable from our respective learning from books, therapy and the continued recycle stories we see here in the group. There is the fear as they point out that we WANT to be recycled because we as NON's are afraid to be alone. Listen ... .WE are in CONTROL of OUR future~!  As you learned in your therapy WE need to love our selves first and NOT depend on OTHERS for our happiness.  YOU, ME & EVERY OTHER PERSON in this particular group, ":)etaching from Wounds" are trying to get to a place where we can let them go. Let go of the pain they caused, let go of the continued recycle, let go of their flying monkey's. NOT YOUR CIRCUS~! NOT YOUR MONKEY'S~!

BUUUT in order to do that ... .YOU have to be happy with yourself. YOU have to know in your heart that you are a good person, you are an amazing person, you are a caring & loving person and that you're ok with being alone ... .and when the RIGHT person who RESPECTS YOU for who YOU are & is worthy of your friendship, love, that you'll let them into your world ... .to share it ... .not for THEM to DOMINATE it~!

You're a very smart person who only wants to be loved for who you are KC. You've learned about idealization-devaluation-discard cycle and you also have learned that this will repeat itself time and time again UNTIL YOU put an end to it. You know what you have to do to do that too, NC ... .block, never return emails, phone calls, text. Only then will you truly begin to heal from this. Only then will you truly be on the path of healing and moving forward in your life. Only then will you treat yourself in the way you deserve too and only then will you truly get to a place in your life that you will love yourself to share yourself with someone who truly deserves the caring, loving person I know you are ... .

I commend you on holding out a hand to the group ... .and as promised the group is here to help you up, dust you off and pat you on the butt to get you walking your journey again. Maybe choose a different path this time ... .one that doesn't have a loop back to this same crossroads ... .

I wish you continued strength & peace KC ... .

J

[Larmoyant]

JQ I always love your replies so much!

.

I agree. JQ you're a legend!

.Will this feeling of release last? Or will the pain of the discard snap back on me?

.

KC, this is what has started to happen to me too. Wonderful feelings of release. There have been times of small set-backs (e.g. the Whats App thing), but overall the 'relief that it's over' times have increased and are getting more frequent. Enjoy them when they happen and remember that even if you do have a set back they will return.

[kc sunshine]

I've been up and down a bit and am giving myself a couple of days to "stew" before I move to stay out of contact, etc. I think what happened is that my ex got back together with her ex (that had recently broken up with her) and that's why I got the rapid discard after the long weekend of being together. I'm trying to look at the bright side to what was otherwise a painful episode-- I guess in the big picture we both got each other more out of our systems and also had some moments of connection.