Feeling stuck...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Me and my ex-BPD partner have lived apart for a year but sometimes I just feel like we are back to square one. He alternates between loving and hating me. When he’s in the hating fase he keeps his distance and I feel like finally we’ll start detaching from each other.

We have children so we can’t be totally no contact and eventually he returns to the “loving fase, you’re the love of my life, please let me return home, marry me! I already ordered a ring for you, MARRY ME”. I know sometimes I have given him intermitent reinforcement so partially this is my fault. The truth is I have been afraid to deal with his anger outbursts, and he holds over my head the treath that if we are separated for good he will desapear completely and won’t come to see the children anymore. I suppose I have to accept that if that is his choice, there’s nothing I can do about it. Is this common for people with BPD?

In the last few days I have hold my grounds, I truly had to push trought my fear, and told him time and time again that there’s no way we’ll get back together. I tried explaining, I tried reasoning, I eventually gave up and tried to say nothing and just listenned to him. I listened to him for a whole day. I lost count of how many times he said he was going to leave the house and never come back; he even put his shoes and jacket on but never left, just kept talking for hours. I was accused, blamed, all day long. I have tried everything to avoid conflict but I have promised myself that I cannot put up with this anymore because I am the one going crazy. 
Having to listen to someone saying that he’s feeling so bad that he drove all the way home at high speed, that I don’t care about him but I care about others, that I don’t have time to answer his phone calls or his texts but I have time for everyone else, that he didn’t eat all day, asking me to do stupid little arrons that he could easily do by himself like it’s some sort of test, and last but not least : « I cannot live without you, I cannot live without my daughters «.

I have lived most of my adult life with him, I’m now at a point where I feel I’m loosing sight of what is normal and what is not; it’s sad to think that I do not know what a relationship where my needs are also taken into consideration is. I don’t know what it’s like to share responsability with another adult. In fact, I feel responsible for him too.

A few months ago he told me that a at a certain point when we were in couples terapy he was involved with another woman; according to him it happened beacause he wanted us to get back together and me and the terapist kicked him out of the house! He has done some bad things but I always thought that was a limit he would not cross. He did and I will never trust him again. He does seem to regret it deeply and feel very guilty about it but whenever that subject comes up he still manages to be the victim because I’m the one who cannot let it go! 

Thank you in advance for reading, I just wanted to share because I’m feeling really sad mainly due to my my inability to free myself from this situation.

[MiaP]

Me and my ex-BPD partner have lived apart for a year but sometimes I just feel like we are back to square one. He alternates between loving and hating me. When he’s in the hating fase he keeps his distance and I feel like finally we’ll start detaching from each other.

We have children so we can’t be totally no contact and eventually he returns to the “loving fase, you’re the love of my life, please let me return home, marry me! I already ordered a ring for you, MARRY ME”. I know sometimes I have given him intermitent reinforcement so partially this is my fault. The truth is I have been afraid to deal with his anger outbursts, and he holds over my head the treath that if we are separated for good he will desapear completely and won’t come to see the children anymore. I suppose I have to accept that if that is his choice, there’s nothing I can do about it. Is this common for people with BPD?

In the last few days I have hold my grounds, I truly had to push trought my fear, and told him time and time again that there’s no way we’ll get back together. I tried explaining, I tried reasoning, I eventually gave up and tried to say nothing and just listenned to him. I listened to him for a whole day. I lost count of how many times he said he was going to leave the house and never come back; he even put his shoes and jacket on but never left, just kept talking for hours. I was accused, blamed, all day long. I have tried everything to avoid conflict but I have promised myself that I cannot put up with this anymore because I am the one going crazy. 
Having to listen to someone saying that he’s feeling so bad that he drove all the way home at high speed, that I don’t care about him but I care about others, that I don’t have time to answer his phone calls or his texts but I have time for everyone else, that he didn’t eat all day, asking me to do stupid little arrons that he could easily do by himself like it’s some sort of test, and last but not least : « I cannot live without you, I cannot live without my daughters «.

I have lived most of my adult life with him, I’m now at a point where I feel I’m loosing sight of what is normal and what is not; it’s sad to think that I do not know what a relationship where my needs are also taken into consideration is. I don’t know what it’s like to share responsability with another adult. In fact, I feel responsible for him too.

A few months ago he told me that a at a certain point when we were in couples terapy he was involved with another woman; according to him it happened beacause he wanted us to get back together and me and the terapist kicked him out of the house! He has done some bad things but I always thought that was a limit he would not cross. He did and I will never trust him again. He does seem to regret it deeply and feel very guilty about it but whenever that subject comes up he still manages to be the victim because I’m the one who cannot let it go! 

Thank you in advance for reading, I just wanted to share because I’m feeling really sad mainly due to my my inability to free myself from this situation.

[allienoah]

Mia just let me say I'm sorry you are so sad and have been hurt so badly.  
Losing your own sense of reality and all is a horrible feeling. It happens so often with these relationships.
A sacred trust has been broken. You have every right to feel as you do.
Maybe taking a few practical steps if you are done with this situation will help. Does he still live with you?

[MiaP]

Hi Allienoah,

thank you. No, we no longer live together. He comes to the house 2/3 times a week to see the kids.

[allienoah]

It must be very difficult for you when he visits given that he has been asking for reconciliation. I don't know if you are like me, but I am fine when bf isn't around. I can deal with facing my feelings and standing strong. It's when he is in front of me that my old insecurities and FOG kick in. So difficult.
Try to stay firm to the boundaries you have set with him-have you set any?

[Lucky Jim]

I have lived most of my adult life with him, I’m now at a point where I feel I’m loosing sight of what is normal and what is not; it’s sad to think that I do not know what a relationship where my needs are also taken into consideration is. I don’t know what it’s like to share responsability with another adult. In fact, I feel responsible for him too.

Hey MiaP, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.  Right, that's what often happens in a BPD r/s: we lose our sense of perspective in terms of what is normal in a r/s.  No, you are not responsible for his well-being, though I understand why you might feel that way.  Most of us Nons end up as caretakers in a BPD r/s.  It was eye-opening, after parting ways with my BPDxW, to discover that it's possible to have a normal, healthy r/s with a caring person who will share the responsibility.  It's night and day.

LuckyJim

[MiaP]

It must be very difficult for you when he visits given that he has been asking for reconciliation. I don't know if you are like me, but I am fine when bf isn't around. I can deal with facing my feelings and standing strong. It's when he is in front of me that my old insecurities and FOG kick in. So difficult.

I feel the same way, it's much much easier when he is not around. In fact, I feel nervous around him, I don't say anything without thinking twice, it's like I can't be myself around him anymore and the truth is I feel like I'm trying to manipulate him too. If I think about the right way to say and act so as not to infuriate him and avoid his tantrums I am not being manipulative also? That makes me feel guilty.

What I'm having most trouble with is not to feel responsible for him feeling so bad when he says things like "I can't live like this, I can't live without you and my daugthers, it's killing me to be away from you, you and the girls are my only family", it's as if I'm the one condemning him to a life of solitute. I know in my head this is not true, but still I can't seem to not care when he says those things. 

Try to stay firm to the boundaries you have set with him-have you set any?

Can you please give me some practical examples of boundaries?

Most of us Nons end up as caretakers in a BPD r/s.

I'm starting to read the book "Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist" and it fits like a glove... .

It was eye-opening, after parting ways with my BPDxW, to discover that it's possible to have a normal, healthy r/s with a caring person who will share the responsibility.  It's night and day.

Good to know, for now, I can only have hope and work on myself, on my own issues, because it's hard for me to accept that I truly have been a caretaker for all these years and that I cannot stop acting this way... .

[allienoah]

I completely relate to the fact that we, as nons, are also manipulating them. Like you said, thinking twice about everything we say, trying to "soften the blow" and avoidance are all the things we do. They are survival tactics at this point. I have been taught-and am still learning- to stop this, do as I wish and let it "lie on the floor" without picking up his tantrum and trying to heal it.
By boundaries, I would think of something like "I will not tolerate your yelling at me, if it continues I will have to leave the room." then leave. It's a start, and you get the idea. There are also good articles on setting boundaries on this site.
I read the same book, and I re-read it from time to time. It is a great resource and helps us to realize we are not going crazy!
You are absolutely correct that the only ones we can work on and change are ourselves. It is a journey. But with each new hurdle we tackle, the stronger we get.
I think you sound very strong, and wise. I'm pulling for you!

[once removed]

Can you please give me some practical examples of boundaries?

ask and you shall receive!

practical examples of boundaries: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368

and the accompanying article if youve not read it: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

[MiaP]

I think you sound very strong, and wise.

Just wish I could be as strong as I sound!

Regarding boundaries I have to manage to set one on sleeping. I need to sleep and there's no point in staying up all night having endless conversations that change nothing! If he's at my house I try to end the conversation, he is usually very ofended by this and sometimes even picks up his things to go but manages to steer the conversation and ends up staying for hours. Is there a sensible/better way to say "please leave, I want to go to sleep" without causing a rage outburst?

[once removed]

Is there a sensible/better way to say "please leave, I want to go to sleep" without causing a rage outburst?

not really. thats pretty well and clearly stated.

he is usually very ofended by this and sometimes even picks up his things to go but manages to steer the conversation and ends up staying for hours.

i think this is the bigger issue. for whatever reason, he is offended, and has learned that steering the conversation works - you dont go to sleep.

its important that we communicate and be upfront with others regarding our boundaries. this doesnt mean others will heed them or that there are particular words that work in getting them to. boundaries, in that regard, are more about how we respond when someone continues to push.

boundaries in this case mean not participating/being drawn into a steered conversation.  not taking the bait (rewarding his behavior). restating, if necessary, "im going to bed", and doing it. it means changing your responses (more physically than verbally), or not responding. often, with any person we try to set new boundaries with, we will be tested, the ante will be upped. anticipate this.

a practical example of a boundary would look something like not allowing him in your home if he refuses to leave when asked respectfully to do so.

[donkey2016]

Hello, I'm sorry to hear the trouble that you're going through.

I'm pretty much in the same situation (I just posted in on the conflicted board) except that I don't have children together with my ex. I have spent hours listening to him complaining about how life is so difficult without me and my kids. Very stressful especially when you have a lot of work waiting to be done! Once you try to enforce boundaries you'll probably experience that your ex will escalate his bad behavior and start with suicide threats. This is what my ex has put me through. So exhausting.

Don't give up - I'm trying to think at least this is better then living with them.

[MiaP]

Hi,

once removed, I think you have a clear picture of what's going on. My real problem at this point is how I respond to him because he just keeps pushing and pushing. We have been living apart for a year, I've told him we are not getting back together and he keeps pushing.

It's hard to admit but I know that at this point I'm the one to blame because I'm not dealing well with the children not having him around. I feel guilty about it so I just end up leaving things unsaid, letting him steer the conversations and keeping in a "good mood" so that he keeps coming to see the children. It's as if he doesn't separate me, or being upset with me, with his rights and duties as a father.

Another problem for me is not to respond to his pleas, it's as if there's a part of me that cannot stop taking care of him. He has done so many terrible things and I still feel like I should help him, what's wrong with me, that's what I keep thinking.

donkey2016, it is exhausting and unfortunatly I've also been through suicide threats too... .

[donkey2016]

Hi MiaP,
I looked at your first post again. It's so similar to my situation even the words my ex boyfriend is using. Pleas for marriage when it's obvious for everybody that it's over! I admire that you have told him that you don't want to have a romantic relationship with him. That's so difficult to do when you're constantly pressured. I fell for the emotional blackmailing with the suicide threats and told him that there might be a chance in the future. How do you deal with these threats?

I'm also depended on him for practical things and I can imagine for you that it must be good to have someone taking care of the kids. My ex helped me in the past with my kids but they don't have a really deep affection for him. So easier that way.

d.

[MiaP]

Hi donkey2016,

I fell for the emotional blackmailing with the suicide threats and told him that there might be a chance in the future. How do you deal with these threats?

It’s very hard for me to deal with all the guilt and threats. If i feel really trapped and he keeps pressing for an answer that I am not prepared to give or if I haven’t thinked things through and don’t want to answer something rigth away I just say that I need some time, I understand that he would like me to answer right away but I just need some time to think.

You might find helpfull to read the replies to one of my posts:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=310558.msg12874342#msg12874342

My ex helped me in the past with my kids but they don't have a really deep affection for him. So easier that way.

That’s better for the kids, they don’t suffer as much with his absence.

As for depending on pratical things I can't count on him for much. The truth is he didn't really help much when we were together.
After he left I completely gave up hope that he'll ever share the responsability with me. I have to say that for example if there's a medical emergency with one of the girls and I call him he'll come over right away and help. However, that's about it; all other ordinary day to day driving to school, picking up, cooking, helping with homework, everything, it's up to me, it's as if in his mind I am the only one who has the responsability to do all that.

But he always says « why didn’t you ask me to do that ? » I just answer in my mind: « because the last ten times I asked you didn’t do anything »
I have been trying to be as independent as possible on pratical things because even asking for help was always a source of disappointment. Now I don’t expect him to help at all. Unfortunatelty this means that my life about resumes to working and taking care of the children.

[donkey2016]

Hi MiaP,

I must admit that I have very little help from my ex., like you I do much the things around the house, at least for the daily tasks on top of a demanding full-time work. I reread your post and almost laughing since my ex does the same - asks me to do things for him - like buy things or go to the bank - that he could easily do himself. I have also stopped asking him to help me, especially with driving the kids somewhere, since I can never completely trust that he'll do it. I also have to have a back-up plan. Plus, he always reminds me about every little thing he has done for me - maybe not right away but it can come up several months or years after.I also don't want to put myself in the situation that I owe him anything making it more difficult to break up completely.

Like you I also feel down and sad that I have only time for work and taking care of the kids. I can't travel anywhere on my own. I started to treasure short moments of calm or joy, sometimes just being alone , maybe going for a walk. I also try to value what I have done to break free from the relation and what I'm able to accomplish on my own.  I also try to think that the future will probably be better since I (like you) already taken steps to be free. Maybe this is also something you can try. Try to get a baby sitter so that you can go once a week to do something that you like. Don't feel guilty instead enjoy!

D.

[MiaP]

Hi donkey2016,

just to say I could have written your post ipsis verbis... .

I reread your post and almost laughing since my ex does the same - asks me to do things for him - like buy things or go to the bank - that he could easily do himself.

Mine asked if I could buy him some socks!   not forgetting to add that if I don't he'll have none to wear and I know he gets a rash if he doesn't wear socks... .

I started to treasure short moments of calm or joy, sometimes just being alone , maybe going for a walk. I also try to value what I have done to break free from the relation and what I'm able to accomplish on my own.  I also try to think that the future will probably be better since I (like you) already taken steps to be free. Maybe this is also something you can try. Try to get a baby sitter so that you can go once a week to do something that you like. Don't feel guilty instead enjoy!

That's really good for you, and good advice. Thank you.