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Author Topic: Having Trouble Adhering to NC.  (Read 4379 times)
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« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2017, 08:25:25 PM »

I know that it's confusing with what a pwBPD, i think that she's really both, she exaggerates her feelings a lot like a small kids d would and then you have the anger that's directed at the people that are closest to a pwBPD. The anger comes from the core wound of abandonment, she'd have to discover where that anger comes from in therapy.

I felt like there where grey areas in the r/s where things were not extreme but relatively calm, she saw my as either all good or all bad and can't see me with both qualities at the same, that's BPD.

Where do you fit in all of this? Well her behaviours are driven by the disorder, it's not because of who you are as a person, sure there's pent up resentment but the anger is disproportionate, she's emotionally stunted at the young age of a child and doesn't have she's missing a development stage with r/s's.

Have you heard of radical acceptance?
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« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2017, 08:34:19 PM »

I know that it's confusing with what a pwBPD, i think that she's really both, she exaggerates her feelings a lot like a small kids d would and then you have the anger that's directed at the people that are closest to a pwBPD. The anger comes from the core wound of abandonment, she'd have to discover where that anger comes from in therapy.

I felt like there where grey areas in the r/s where things were not extreme but relatively calm, she saw my as either all good or all bad and can't see me with both qualities at the same, that's BPD.

Where do you fit in all of this? Well her behaviours are driven by the disorder, it's not because of who you are as a person, sure there's pent up resentment but the anger is disproportionate, she's emotionally stunted at the young age of a child and doesn't have she's missing a development stage with r/s's.

Have you heard of radical acceptance?

No, I haven't heard of it... .

I'm so confused. I feel like I am going mad. I don't even know what the reason is for not wanting to see me - she is just refusing to see me again. I feel sick. I haven't eaten for two days. I feel like I've just been broken up with.

How can she not feel anything at all.
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« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2017, 08:45:26 PM »

You should get something to eat. The thread will still be here for you.
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« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2017, 08:51:03 PM »

You should get something to eat. The thread will still be here for you.

In all honesty, I'm sitting here in my bed feeling so hurt that it feels like I'm in a trance and I don't know where I am. I feel like I'm about to explode. I don't have anyone here with me to talk to, and I can't sleep. I haven't even thought about eating for two days, I don't even want to do anything. I'd rather just disappear.
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« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2017, 09:13:57 PM »

I can be anxious/angry/sad and still deal with this

I have done this before, and I can do it again

This feels bad, it is a normal body reaction.  It will pass

This feels bad, and feelings are very often wrong

These are just feelings, they will go away

This won`t last forever


I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time, these are positive coping statements that you can repeat to yourself, they can help you during distressing times. Can you give them a try?
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« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2017, 02:18:52 AM »

I can be anxious/angry/sad and still deal with this

I have done this before, and I can do it again

This feels bad, it is a normal body reaction.  It will pass

This feels bad, and feelings are very often wrong

These are just feelings, they will go away

This won`t last forever


I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time, these are positive coping statements that you can repeat to yourself, they can help you during distressing times. Can you give them a try?

Thank you. But to be honest with you, I don't even feel calm enough to sit down and do those. I woke up shaking, and unable to stop. I don't know wha I'm going to do
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« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2017, 10:14:15 AM »

What I’d ideally like to receive here is some support, some guidance, and perhaps some reassurance?  (I don’t want to sound demanding, but I’m really wary of being criticised and judged, as this is a very difficult thing to come on here and talk about)

we understand, clvrnn, and on the contrary, i commend you for being up front about the kind of support you need from us. we can give that.

i dont think there is anything here to be embarrassed of. you were (are) in a place of deep pain. she reached out and you were receptive. the 180 probably wasnt something you predicted. and it more than stings.

I wonder if she meant all the things about how she felt about me, because the way she is insisting that we go into NC, that we don't see each other again, and then being quite abusive in terms of insulting me makes me feel it was all a lie.

to echo what Mutt said, dealing with someone with BPD or BPD traits can be very confusing. this is where learning a bit more about the disorder can help us understand and depersonalize what is very hurtful behavior.

theres a great deal of turmoil and distortion going on inside her that has little to do with you, and is driving her behaviors; both reaching out, and pushing you away. if youre wondering if she set you up to deliberately drop you, the odds are against that.

more likely, the period of distance and space had soothed some of that turmoil and distortion that was, at the time, directed at you, similarly to how you were feeling stronger after two weeks. intimacy, however, is a trigger for the disorder. in other words, everything came boiling back up to the surface, and quickly. both the expressions of love and hate were over expressions, emotional reactions, which are inherently unstable for someone with BPD traits. think of a pendulum where she swings from love to hate (with little in between) very rapidly.

its complex stuff, clvrnn, i know. i found learning more about the disorder to be of some comfort, though. i realized the whole picture was much bigger than me.

re NC: "no contact" is just a tool among many other tools to help us detach. its not a lifestyle, its not a destination, and its not even something we have to do permanently.

knowing how to navigate is far more important. in order to do that, you will need to decide where you want to go from here. do you want to detach from the relationship? if so, a period of space makes a lot of sense. do you want to revive the relationship? open a thread on the Saving board, and we can walk you through it. not sure/somewhere in the middle? thats okay. we can speak to that too. for instance, it might make sense for you not to reach out to her, but to be responsive when/if she reaches out. there are options.

hopefully, it is of some comfort that you realize that after two weeks, you were doing better. the intense pain youre feeling now will dwindle over time. take it from me: i was a particularly bad case, and i wasnt eating either. it is really important to do what you can, because the lack of food can really amplify all the bad feelings, and it doesnt lend itself very well to clarity or decision making. at one point i would simply, every few hours, eat a mouthful of cheerios, and swallow it down with water. not the finest meal ive ever had, but every little bit helps.
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« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2017, 02:19:52 PM »


We then spoke about what was going to happen from then, and we agreed to talk in a couple of days to see what was going to happen. She went home.

Yesterday, I called her. The conversation didn’t go very far/well, she became frustrated and angry and started telling me that SHE’S decided we can’t see each other again, that we have to go back to no contact.


Welcome back! You mentioned that you spoke about how things would proceed. What did you both come up with? Was this agreed upon by both of you or did one of you have more to say about it than the other?

Could you share a little more about the conversation on the phone and how it went south? Did it start as a hostile conversation or did something trigger her?
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« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2017, 03:55:28 PM »

Welcome back! You mentioned that you spoke about how things would proceed. What did you both come up with? Was this agreed upon by both of you or did one of you have more to say about it than the other?

Could you share a little more about the conversation on the phone and how it went south? Did it start as a hostile conversation or did something trigger her?

She came up with the idea that she can't see me again, and that we should go back to no contact. I can't remember anything triggering her. It is difficult to speak to her on the phone, as she'll often begin the conversation with "I can only stay on the phone for 5 minutes" or something, and then the conversation is very rushed and pressured. I asked if we could meet up to talk and she said no, and I expressed how I would really find it easier to talk if we did that, and she said no.

She often becomes quite annoyed, quite hostile. She uses gaslighting frequently. Tells me I am too intense, too demanding, etc - I have spoken to my domestic abuse advocate about this and she has reassured me that yes, this is the case. It is gaslighting. She then withdraws, and doesn't want to talk - often when she feels she doesn't want to talk anymore. No matter how calmly I approach her, she always turns this way.

She would refuse all of my suggestions (meeting up, talking on the phone, meeting somewhere neutral, etc) and it feels like I am being guided to saying yes to all of her suggestions until we are in a place where we are doing what SHE wants. All of my needs and feelings are ignored or refused.

I didn't have a say in anything, in anyway.
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« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2017, 04:41:11 PM »

Is it appropriate to paste the last message she has sent me onto this board? I feel like I need some input into understanding what she's said. I am quite angry at what she has just said to me, as I am almost being told to leave her alone, that I'm messing up her life, etc. I have sent a very detailed message back, and I have disabled the account I was using to talk to her on.

It would be helpful if I could post the message, obviously without any identifying names/places, etc. Just to see if I could gain some clarity.
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« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2017, 04:45:26 PM »

You can post it here so that we can help.
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« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2017, 05:29:59 PM »

"It will always be this cycle and I just can't do it anymore. I made a mistake coming to your house but I can't take it back. I just want to be left alone. I want to move on with my life. I am stressed out all day every day at work and I leave work and have to deal with this.

If I don't take control once and for all I'll end up being ill and not be able to maintain such an intense job. I have been in a good place for a while now and I'm not going to allow anything to sabotage it. If I don't look after myself no one will. You need to do the same.

Whatever it is you're looking for or need in your life it isn't from me. I'm doing whatever I have to do. You need to do you. I'm not going engage in anymore conversation with you. I apologise in advance of when you say I'm ignoring you but I've just got to do what I've got to do.

It's not my intention to hurt you but that's what's happening. I can't stop that but I can look after myself. I'm sorry but please leave me alone now. I won't be replying anymore. You need to use the skills I have taught you and the therapy sessions have taught you to get through this difficult time. Please delete my number "


This message is something I received from her a couple of hours ago. I had asked if we could possibly talk about the situation, as it was still left hanging and I didn't know what was going on. So yeah, this is what I got back.

 I think what strikes me the most about this message is that she's almost implying that something is being done to her. Her life hasn't been disrupted by this, she is the instigator. Using words like 'sabotage' - I feel those sorts of buzzwords aren't needed.
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« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2017, 05:42:25 PM »

She often becomes quite annoyed, quite hostile. She uses gaslighting frequently. Tells me I am too intense, too demanding, etc - I have spoken to my domestic abuse advocate about this and she has reassured me that yes, this is the case.

can you tell us more about these exchanges and what happened after she left your house? what was said? what does she say is too intense and demanding?
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« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2017, 05:50:53 PM »

can you tell us more about these exchanges and what happened after she left your house? what was said? what does she say is too intense and demanding?

Sure.

What happened after she left is that my emotions were back; I was missing her, wanting to talk to her. I was messaging her with general chit chat - what are you up to, sort of things. She was responding in one or two worded replies. I tried a couple of times to say things like "I've liked spending time with you, I would like to see you again soon", etc. She didn't really say anything like that back. So I began feeling quite, well, upset, I suppose. I knew what was coming, I knew all of this was going to flare back up.

I asked her about a few things, on more than one occasion. Now, the reason for the asking more than once is because when I think about the way she was acting while with me, the things she says when she's with me and the way she acts and things she says when she goes home are all different. It confused me.

So, when we were talking about what had happened over the weekend, I'd ask if she meant such and such a comment, or something like that. She said that that is too intense.

I at one point, only once, said that I loved her. She immediately sent back three/four messages saying "I can't do this, you're too intense, this is what I don't want, leave me alone". I only said it once. We had just slept together and I personally don't feel it's unreasonable for someone to have said that.

She became more and more distant in general. Having just been in her company for two days and been very close to her, this was upsetting for me.

I think my general emotional tone may have been the 'too intense' that she was talking about, although I tried my best to adhere to her sudden cold, distant behaviour.
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« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2017, 05:56:28 PM »

"It will always be this cycle and I just can't do it anymore. I made a mistake coming to your house but I can't take it back. I just want to be left alone. I want to move on with my life. I am stressed out all day every day at work and I leave work and have to deal with this.

If I don't take control once and for all I'll end up being ill and not be able to maintain such an intense job. I have been in a good place for a while now and I'm not going to allow anything to sabotage it. If I don't look after myself no one will. You need to do the same.

Whatever it is you're looking for or need in your life it isn't from me. I'm doing whatever I have to do. You need to do you. I'm not going engage in anymore conversation with you. I apologise in advance of when you say I'm ignoring you but I've just got to do what I've got to do.

It's not my intention to hurt you but that's what's happening. I can't stop that but I can look after myself. I'm sorry but please leave me alone now. I won't be replying anymore. You need to use the skills I have taught you and the therapy sessions have taught you to get through this difficult time. Please delete my number "


This message is something I received from her a couple of hours ago. I had asked if we could possibly talk about the situation, as it was still left hanging and I didn't know what was going on. So yeah, this is what I got back.

 I think what strikes me the most about this message is that she's almost implying that something is being done to her. Her life hasn't been disrupted by this, she is the instigator. Using words like 'sabotage' - I feel those sorts of buzzwords aren't needed.

I feel like I could of wrote this thread I had an extremely similar situation with my ex partner not too long ago ... .and I share a lot of the same emotions you had... couldn't eat for a few days after a similar discard , after being pushed away only to be pulled back in for an even harder discard etc etc , it's always interesting to see similar stories.
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« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2017, 06:00:15 PM »

Excerpt
You need to use the skills I have taught you and the therapy sessions have taught you to get through this difficult time.

Could you tell us a little about the skills that she is referring to that she and your therapist have taught you to get you through difficult times?

Are these things you could be doing right now to help yourself?

Love and light x
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« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2017, 06:51:55 PM »

Could you tell us a little about the skills that she is referring to that she and your therapist have taught you to get you through difficult times?

Are these things you could be doing right now to help yourself?

Love and light x

I am not sure what she was referring to. I haven't told her the ins and outs of my therapy, I've merely mentioned that I am in therapy.  The things she's taught me; she has spoken about how to rationalise thoughts and feelings, other than that I;m not sure what she may be referring to.
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« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2017, 07:15:44 PM »

clvrnn, I'm not sure we can make any sense of this note without seeing what you wrote to her. She is reacting to something you are doing. Form here words, its is something that has happened over and over again in he relationship. In the context of her letter, she is saying that there i something very compelling about the relationship and also something that is draining. She was reminded of this in both the phone call and the letter.

Can you share your letter to her?

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« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2017, 07:21:05 PM »

clvrnn, I'm not sure we can make any sense of this note without seeing what you wrote to her. She is reacting to something you are doing. Form here words, its is something that has happened over and over again in he relationship. In the context of her letter, she is saying that there i something very compelling about the relationship and also something that is draining. She was reminded of this in both the phone call and the letter.

Can you share your letter to her?



She is reacting to me asking questions to clarify things she does/says; in this particular instance, asking what is going to happen next, etc. Telling her that I love her (once), asking her not to break it off again (as she has done several times throughout).

It isn't something she is replying to directly such as a letter or a message that I have sent.
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« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2017, 07:23:36 PM »

I think I'd like to make it clear, after having shared that, that I am not in any way harassing this woman, or being abusive towards HER.

I need to make it quite clear that she has flipped this entire thing around, and is presenting as if something's happening to her, which it isn't.

She isn't responding to a direct message from me. She is recoiling and retreating from me because she doesn't want to have to deal with the emotional fallout from the situation that has occurred. This is not the first time she has done this, this is a pattern.
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« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2017, 07:25:52 PM »

I was really wary of sharing that, as it looks, in the way that she's written that, that she's the victim, that there's something I'm doing. Now I feel that people on here think there's someting I'm doing that I'm not saying. There isn't.

She is emotionally, psychologically abusive, manipulative, devoid of empathy, everything.

Throughout the relationship, she has played on my anxiety issues by threatening to break up with/actually breaking up with me. She has always played the victim, even when I had a health problem, she told all her friends about it and it became about how SHE was going to suffer.

This message she has sent me is not reflective of what has been going on. She has phrased it in a way that makes HER look like something's happened to her. It hasn't. She is not hurt, she is not being rejected and discarded AGAIN.

She's used phrases like "I want to move on with my life" - i had not contacted her for two weeks. I had left her alone. She re-entered MY life.

I hope I'm not sounding annoyed, but I am really feeling that people think there's something I'm not revealing, or that she's suffering in some way.

This woman is a nightmare from start to finish. This message is a perfect example of how she can manipulate a situaoin and make me think it's all my fault. It isn't.
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« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2017, 07:45:50 PM »

Now I feel that people on here think there's someting I'm doing that I'm not saying. There isn't.

We are here to help, not judge. The process does require some vulnerability and openess to get the most from it. You can do that at your own pace.

In response you your request for "some guidance, and perhaps some reassurance" we opened a thread on Saving with some straight forward strategies for use after the call. We took that down at your request. As you said "I have realised I don't want to stay with her, and there is no hope."

We will follow your lead.

She is emotionally, psychologically abusive, manipulative, devoid of empathy, everything.

You know her best.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

She isn't responding to a direct message from me. She is recoiling and retreating from me because she doesn't want to have to deal with the emotional fallout from the situation that has occurred.

What is emotional fallout she is recoiling and retreating from?
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« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2017, 07:54:53 PM »

What is emotional fallout she is recoiling and retreating from?

My request to meet up to to discuss the situation, rather than how she wants to do it - through text messages. At any moment she could become full of rage if she didn't like a question, or if the conversation went on too long, if I was too assertive, and stop replying. I would have preferred to meet for that reason, so that I don't have to suddenly deal with the silent treatment.

Telling her, once, that I am still in love with her and wanted to spend time with her, again.

Trying to explain to her in a calm way how her pulling away is making me feel. "Too intense". Again, I always approached her in a calm way as I know her history/I have to adapt my behaviour/speech/be more submissive so that she doesn't become angry.

Me, telling her I enjoyed spending time with her, that I wanted to do it again soon, that I'd missed her body.


When I said emotional fallout, I meant my general expression of emotions. She didn't want anything to do with it.

Because I wasn't able to switch back into non-feeling mode in the way she did, it was an issue for her.

I feel, at this point, it's important that I say that myself and this person are both female. I didn't feel it important before, but I think it's relevant, now.

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« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2017, 07:59:07 PM »

rather than how she wants to do it - through text messages

I know that it's annoying doing it through text, the reason why she's doing it through text is because it's too emotional for her seeing you face to face.
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« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2017, 08:00:50 PM »

I know that it's annoying doing it through text, the reason why she's doing it through text is because it's too emotional for her.

That may be the case.

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« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2017, 08:32:13 PM »

I feel, at this point, it's important that I say that myself and this person are both female. I didn't feel it important before, but I think it's relevant, now.

I think the butterfly avatar already outed you  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Trying to explain to her in a calm way how her pulling away is making me feel. "Too intense".

So, too much, too soon for her.

What are the cycles and he reoccurring conflicts in the relationship?

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clvrnn
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken Up
Posts: 501



« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2017, 08:35:08 PM »

I have really appreciated the help I've received on this forum.

However, I am now feeling as if I perhaps did do something to annoy her, for her to cut me off. I feel like this because of the message I shared, and the reaction/questions to it.

I joined this forum due to learning about BPD and the behaviours and symptoms being very similar to what my ex-partner was doing. I felt, at first, that what I was describing was being identified with by members of the forum.

I now feel as if perhaps it isn't BPD, and that members here are viewing my story differently.

I now feel bad for upsetting my ex, even thought I don't think I have, truly, done so.

I feel that she has exhibited all of the major BPD symptoms towards me - I have read extensively about it, spoken to other people, spoken to domestic abuse professionals, who have all confirmed that she was abusive, controlling, manipulative. That she used tactics such as the break up/make up cycle, gaslighting, the silent treatment, intimidation, isolation, sleep deprivation, emotional withdrawal, disengaging, and others that I can't recall.

I've shared one message, and as I said, I feel that members' opinions have now changed, based on the questions I am now getting. It is very difficult to deal with that, as I came here for support and advice.

I didn't harass her.

I didn't say or do anything abusive towards her.

I simply expressed my emotions to her after having slept with/been around, and she withdrew and became cold and told me to 'leave her alone' - a totally disproportionate response to what was actually going on.

I feel really anxious now, as this was really a safe place for me. But I don't know, now.
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clvrnn
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken Up
Posts: 501



« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2017, 08:46:10 PM »


So, too much, too soon for her.

What are the cycles and he reoccurring conflicts in the relationship?



Break up/make up - this occurred more than ten times.

Telling me that I wasn't allowed to go to certain events/have certain hobbies; "I'll leave you if you get another tattoo" or "No partner of mine is having those interests, I don't want you going to any more festivals" - The time that I did go to a festival led to her blocking me for the entire day "If you can't talk to me when you're out, I won't talk to you at all" = break up/make up

Feeding me negative information about my friends, so that I stop talking to them.

Expecting me to account for my whereabouts at all times. If I had spare time, I'd have to account for where I'd been, who I'd been with. If I didn't, I was told I wasn't prioritising her. She'd sulk = break up/make up.

Expecting me to spend ALL of my free time with her. If I wanted to deviate from the plan, to spend time alone or with friends/family, there'd be conflict. However, she was freely allowed to change plans whenever it suited her. Also = break up, block, make up.

Intense distrust and suspicion of my actions, despite remaining loyal to her and never being interested or looking/talking to anyone else. I could not reason with her.

Accessing my phone, my social media accounts and going through my conversations with friends. Targeting innocent conversations and arguing. Break up.

Not allowing me to exercise at certain times. I worked out around the same time for years. When I met her, she wouldn't adapt at all around that and would argue with me about it. Strop. break up. I gave up exercising, in the end.

Double standard, hypocritical behaviour. Talking to her exes, but not trusting me and not allowing me to do so ( I didn't want to, but it was clear I wasn't allowed)

Silent treatment as a punishment.

Keeping me awake until the early hours of mornings, then often jumping into room at 7am, removing blankets. If I wanted to go to bed earlier = sulk, strop.

There are more, but those are to start.
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clvrnn
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken Up
Posts: 501



« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2017, 08:54:27 PM »



So, too much, too soon for her.




I'm confused about this statement. Could you elaborate?

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once removed
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 11506



« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2017, 09:27:15 PM »

I've shared one message, and as I said, I feel that members' opinions have now changed, based on the questions I am now getting. It is very difficult to deal with that, as I came here for support and advice.

I feel really anxious now, as this was really a safe place for me. But I don't know, now.

this is a safe place and we can give you support.

i think members are trying to get a better picture of the back story and the conflict within the relationship. a lot of us have realized looking back at our relationship that although we had very difficult and hurtful, even abusive partners, we also did some self defeating things and hurt our relationships. of course for me, that came later, i was far too anxious and hurt to analyze or hear that sort of thing at the time. so, i dont think anyone is trying to turn this around on you or paint you as the villain here, or that sort of thing. i think we are trying to provide some perspective, and to learn more about your situation and how we can best support you.

we certainly get that this has been a challenging relationship to say the least (i can relate to a lot of the controlling behavior you experienced from your ex), that the breakup has been extraordinarily painful, and that this recent event really ripped the wounds open.

whats important now is what to do going forward.
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