Wife (BPD) wants to divorce and relocate out of state with kids

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Believe it or not, my ex was quite frugal.  But I heard she still lost her part of the marital equity when she started her own business and it failed to attract customers.

I never paid her lawyer fees, apparently the lawyers agreed her lawyer would get paid from the split of the marital assets, the house equity.  She got over $40K when I refinanced the house and over $20K of my retirement account.  Would that work for you, that the lawyers get paid from the equity split closer to the end of the divorce?  Some prognosticators are saying we're in a housing bubble, if the bubble bursts, home values will drop, what took years to grow may drop in months.

Millions of families have working mothers.  She may claim she has to be with the young children but really there are neighbors, family and day care that can fill those gaps.  Not that they're good choices.  Neighbors may have limits to the help they'll give.  Day cares cost money.  Her family stepping in may enable her to further estrange you.

In my case, my ex eventually had to work and she had no choice but to seek places for our child.  At first she used a local Head Start program but later used daycares.  I was okay with that since exchanges didn't always have to be face to face with her and so there was less conflict then.

[ForeverDad]

Believe it or not, my ex was quite frugal.  But I heard she still lost her part of the marital equity when she started her own business and it failed to attract customers.

I never paid her lawyer fees, apparently the lawyers agreed her lawyer would get paid from the split of the marital assets, the house equity.  She got over $40K when I refinanced the house and over $20K of my retirement account.  Would that work for you, that the lawyers get paid from the equity split closer to the end of the divorce?  Some prognosticators are saying we're in a housing bubble, if the bubble bursts, home values will drop, what took years to grow may drop in months.

Millions of families have working mothers.  She may claim she has to be with the young children but really there are neighbors, family and day care that can fill those gaps.  Not that they're good choices.  Neighbors may have limits to the help they'll give.  Day cares cost money.  Her family stepping in may enable her to further estrange you.

In my case, my ex eventually had to work and she had no choice but to seek places for our child.  At first she used a local Head Start program but later used daycares.  I was okay with that since exchanges didn't always have to be face to face with her and so there was less conflict then.

[takingandsending]

Yes, she wants me to cover all her legal expenses as well (but she also said her plan is to use the profit from the house... .who knows... .). She initially said months ago that she wanted the house and everything in it, with the plans to sell it all and keep the proceeds. We would split savings 70-30 (for her), she said. I don't know if that's still where she is, but I think the reality of debt is hitting her, since she told me I should start selling things in order to pay for the furnishing of my apartment.

So much of this unrealistic entitlement is tied into the twisted idea of responsibility the pwBPD has. I go through this frequently with my stbxw. She continually insists that I acknowledge/admit my responsibility, which being a responsible person, I often fall into the trap of thinking, "Okay. What is my responsibility in this?" But as ForeverDad and lnl have noted, this is emotional logic that leads to blame shifting, "I am feeling the weight of financial debt being incurred. I am uncomfortable with this feeling. You are responsible for my discomfort. When will you acknowledge/take on your responsibility to make me not feel what I am feeling?"

I would definitely get off that joint credit card account and get agreement that all current purchases not agreed to and made specifically to provision for the children are the individual responsibility of the party that made the purchase.

[RealityMgt]

You can close accounts (at least in my state) without asking.

Our bank told me joint checking and/or savings accounts require both parties be present to close them.  The joint credit card is actually primarily in her name, so any credit problems will be hers. However, I'm concerned with the money in our joint accounts being used to pay off the card.

She may claim she has to be with the young children but really there are neighbors, family and day care that can fill those gaps.  Not that they're good choices.  Neighbors may have limits to the help they'll give.  Day cares cost money.  Her family stepping in may enable her to further estrange you.

This is a core tenet of her argument for moving to be near her parents, out of state. She believes she will have to work more (though I've shown that it's possible not to) and as such, needs someone to watch the kids.   She insists it can only be her parents because "you can only trust family" and she only wants people who will "pour into them". The two quotes are two of her repeated buzz-phrases she relies on in this argument.  She's said the kids can never go to daycare, not even for a half day on a Friday afternoon before I could pick them up.  And yet, we send the kids to Sunday school, one is in preschool, and she even leaves them in the kids area at the rec center while she works out a few days a week.  The last one really blows my mind, because the qualifications and safety measures at the "babysitter room" of the rec center are FAR less adequate than any daycare. 

She continues to say "I'm not going to cut you out of their lives" as an assurance when I object to the parenting plan or object to moving them out of state.  Yet the parenting plan is currently hindering their relationship with me, and she wants to further reduce contact between me an them, and she now wants full custody.  It's like she's cutting me with a knife while looking me right in the eye and saying in full sweetness and sincerity, "I'd never hurt you".  Those last two qualifiers, sweet and sincere, are the creepiest part.  I think she actually believes what she says. And she says it so kindly, with a tone of "oh you big silly-head, I'd never do something like,"... .while she's doing it. Twice she's slipped up and told me she's trying to keep the kids from me, and when I later brought it up, the direct quotes even, she completely denied it. Again, I think she believes she never said it.  She believes her version of reality, so say she's lying is generally not accurate, though she does consciously lie at times, too. 

... .get agreement that all current purchases not agreed to and made specifically to provision for the children are the individual responsibility of the party that made the purchase.

My attorney put something very close to that in the counter-filing.

[formflier]

 
So... my understanding of "joint" is that it means equal.  Perhaps you are an "authorized user" on her account.  (I'm speaking about CC account)

Let's look big picture.  Where does the money YOU earn go?  If it goes to a joint account... .I would change that... asap.

How much money is "sitting there" in joint accounts?


Listen... .I'm not sure where "money issues" are on your priority list.  I sense that you don't completely understand your financial picture... jointness and all that.

You will need money to work through the divorce.   That's your problem.  Many pwBPD can't do much with money... .that's their problem.

My goal is to make sure that you protect and use your money wisely.

FF

[ForeverDad]

So... my understanding of "joint" is that it means equal... .  Let's look big picture.  Where does the money YOU earn go?  If it goes to a joint account... .I would change that... asap.

It just so happened that a few months before my separation I had to replace the car I drove.  Until then both our vehicles were jointly registered.  well, she was with me but refused to get out of the car.  So my new car was listed in my name only.  She knew I'd be getting a loan from my retirement plan to buy it.  Well, once I had the papers from work for the required J&S signature from her, she outright refused.  Work's efforts failed.  The dealer was fuming at her obstruction.  I went to our mortgage bank and got a car loan (at a higher interest rate) and they required me to open an account there.  So I changed my paycheck to be deposited there.  Oh was she outraged - but she had done it to herself.

What formflier wrote was correct, you can regain some control over your life by depositing your paycheck into a personal account.  You could still transfer to the joint account as appropriate for marital or family expenses.  But you would be limiting her ability to divert your income from marital expenses to other places.

[Panda39]

Have you talked to your lawyer about moving some of the money in the joint account (no more than half) to an individual account, that might be an option too.

Panda39

[RealityMgt]

I sense that you don't completely understand your financial picture... jointness and all that.

How so?

Have you talked to your lawyer about moving some of the money in the joint account (no more than half) to an individual account... .

Yes. She said not to, but yes that I can redirect my paycheck to an individual account.

[formflier]

 

I would ask her... .going forward, why you should continue to "expose" your money to misuse.  I'm not suggesting you not pay family bills, just that you be the one to use the money... .not your wife.

Would you really want her lawyer fees paid with your money.


Ummm, back to the joint thing.  I'm not aware of a "joint account" that is "really more hers than yours".  Either you are responsible for it or not.  There really is no grey.

I would suggest you call credit card company and eliminate the grey.  Perhaps  you are not joint and just an authorized user.


FF

[RealityMgt]

I understand the point about the joint accounts.  I believe, however, simply taking all the money from the accounts would violate the current orders, unless we agreed to split the money somehow. 

About the CC, I misspoke.  I'm an authorized user.

[formflier]

 Obviously... confirm with your lawyer what the order does and doesn't say. 

Perhaps a better order in future is to specify what bills will be paid by who... .vice location  of the money.

FF

[livednlearned]

simply taking all the money from the accounts would violate the current orders

One of the harsh realities of divorce is that the consequences for violating any or all parts of the order may be a slap on the wrist.

It is not uncommon in divorce for one party to clear out the bank account -- some lawyers advise it. There are often no repercussions.

In my case, my L (ethical, assertive) advised me to withdraw half of what we had in a joint account. This became an "advance" on what would come out of our equitable financial distribution. She felt it was better to have the money and give it back (if it came to that), then try to get the money from my ex after the distribution was ordered.

It might be worth asking your L to outline the consequences if you took out half. Motions for contempt tend to get treated like parking tickets in family law court.

The alternative is that she drains an account, is ordered to replace it, and doesn't. Then you have to pay additional legal fees to go back to court to file a motion for contempt against her, and then she has leverage. If you try to get her to pay attorney fees for the motion for contempt, you may get awarded those fees, but then have to go to court AGAIN to get those fees. I went through this exact scenario.

And when they award legal fees, it is only a portion of what you pay.

Family law court can be aggravating beyond belief when it comes to this stuff.

[formflier]

 
And... .more importantly than the half (IMO) is to stop putting more in there.

Yes... .still pay your part of the bills... .but I can't imagine that the court order says you have to keep putting your money in the same place.  Perhaps it does... .I would work on changing that.

FF

[livednlearned]

Be prepared, too, when you set boundaries like these for there to be an extinction burst. She will try to figure out how high to turn the dial in order to get you back in line.

If your L green lights you being proactive, and you cannot bring yourself to protect your assets even when the law says you are entitled to, it might be a good idea to keep a therapist in the loop.

I gave my T permission to talk to my L, because T knew I had a tendency to self-sabotage when it came to my interests. I was ready to give away the 401K and the house to minimize conflict and assuage my guilt. My L, having talked to the T, prevented me from giving away the 401K, but not the house.

It ended up costing me money to GIVE the house to N/BPDx. It took four trips to court to get him to refinance, and I didn't receive any proceeds from the house to offset what it cost me to get myself financially untangled. Lesson learned.

When it comes to the financial part of divorce, it's a business contract that is coming to an end. It will be hard to set aside your emotions at this early stage, but the more you are able to do this (with help from people who care about you), the easier it will be as you heal and move forward.

[ForeverDad]

I understand the point about the joint accounts.  I believe, however, simply taking all the money from the accounts would violate the current orders, unless we agreed to split the money somehow.

About the CC, I misspoke.  I'm an authorized user.

Good that you're only an authorized user on her credit account.  Yes, she could cancel your card if she wished, but it would technically be her debts.  Of course, divorces seldom apportion debts according to whose card it is but at least you don't have to deal with the potential complications of cancelling a joint account.

If your joint bank accounts have high balances, somehow I doubt that if you're under financial strains, you could just pay bills and work the balances lower while simultaneously depositing your paycheck into a personal account.  If she freaks out about that change (as mine did!) you can always state that you will continue being responsible paying the marital bills.  Where you put the money is not important as long as you continue the same pattern of responsibly paying the rent, mortgage, utilities, etc.  (Actually it is important — so you can avoid money being wasted or snatched — but trying to explain that reality won't work with someone entitled and determined to acknowledge only her own perspective.)  But of course emotionally she won't choose to see that distinction.  Just batten down the hatches and weather the storm, so to speak, you have to be judicious where you fight your skirmishes and battles.  The days of appeasing simply to avoid the pain of conflict are in the past and appeasing never did work, not for long anyway.

LnL is right, with all the new boundaries you'll have to set in the upcoming months, prepare yourself for extinction bursts where she will demand you retreat back to the old ways.

[RealityMgt]

Response to LivednLearned: 
You nailed it. A lot of these things I am experiencing as well.  The emotions are messy and cloud judgment in these things. It's difficult, as I have a friend going through a very similar situation (don't know if his ex is pwBPD or not, though) with a very entitled ex (this entitlement was part and parcel of their marriage, as well), and he was urged (bullied) by our church (my *former* church) to give her whatever she wanted. So he did. And now, strangely, after their divorce was finalized, she's more or less reabsorbed him into the family. He now sees her and their kids six days a week, even going on out of state trips together to visit family, which is far above and beyond the parenting plan they agreed to. I'm happy for him, but it's hard for me to see it and then look at my situation. So what I wrestle with at times is wondering if my friend took the right path, to appease and acquiesce. 

BUT... .his ex and my soon-to-be ex are *not* the same person, and mine is asking for far more sacrifice and control than his ex did. 

"Extinction burst" - I wasn't familiar with that term, and don't know if you coined it, but that's a wonderfully accurate description. Any time I do something outside of her knowledge or control, there is a flare up. This has always been the case in our marriage.  Now, however, their existence seems more bizarre, since she *wants* me out of her life, yet when I take steps in doing that, she erupts.

T talking to L, that's an interesting idea I may want to consider.  T has been through these kinds of cases for decades and has been telling me that from all she can see, my wife cannot be reasoned with and will only cause more destruction if I try to accommodate her. 

Response to ForeverDad
We talked about the card last night and have agreed to pay off our own parts of the debt, pay for kid stuff debt with the cash in the joint accounts, and then close the card.

She's expecting our finances to be split following the court appearance this month. I don't know if that's the case, or not. I will be changing my direct deposit before the next paycheck (end of month), regardless.

You're right, appeasement never worked. Nothing was ever good enough.

By way of update
She again said last night, quite clearly and intentionally, that the only reason she used the court order to try to stop me from getting an apartment was because she doesn't want me having a place with the kids to be used as argument for not moving out of state. She knows it's good for them to have time with me, but she admitted (again) that she tried to block that so she can make the argument to move out of state.  I hope this matters to the court, that she's strategically trying to keep the kids from their dad against what she believes to be in their best interest in order to advance her own agenda. 

[livednlearned]

Any time I do something outside of her knowledge or control, there is a flare up... .however, their existence seems more bizarre, since she *wants* me out of her life, yet when I take steps in doing that, she erupts.

For some people with BPD, there seems to be a compulsion to recreate a betrayal bond of sorts. My T referred to it as a revenge fantasy. It isn't necessarily about a desire to push you away versus pulling you in, it's more like a compulsion to do both, at once. The point is to recreate the dynamic, a familiar but awful reenactment that is a poor substitute for a sense of self.

Part of this is the weak sense of self that makes boundaries utterly confounding for someone with BPD. More or less, she sees others as parts of herself, so when you act independently, she feels a loss of control over herself. This is why kids with BPD parents suffer so much. Healthy development requires individuation of self from primary caregivers, and a BPD mother cannot abide that because it's experienced as a loss of control over herself. Boundaries between herself and others are not intuited, they have to be constantly tested to gauge their whereabouts.

appeasement never worked. Nothing was ever good enough.

It can be very freeing to realize this.

She cannot be pleased or appeased. Therefore, you can focus on ways to protect yourself and your son. In doing so, you may also end up protecting her, since her judgment is likely tangled up too far in emotional logic to make good choices.

[RealityMgt]

Thinking about her condition and not focusing on the impact of it on others makes me sad for her.  I knew something was a bit "off" with her when we were dating, in our late twenties, but I couldn't put my finger on it, and didn't know nearly the extent of it until we were married.  I should've took precautions and vetted out the flags I was seeing back then, but instead I thought, "love can fix anything," and I charged ahead, not knowing the nightmare I was entering.  It's so strange, because to others she's a sweet woman who everyone loves, but she's a monster in the closet to me.  I know it's there, but no one else can see it because it always seems to disappear when I turn on the light to expose it.  A very small number of people have observed anomalies with her, but haven't known what to make of it. Our longtime friend and pastor has always said he "doesn't know anyone like her", that he can't read her at all, and often feels afraid to talk to her. I believe that deep down she knows something is wrong, as well, because back in our dating she had said something about how she felt that if I really knew her I wouldn't like her, and she mentioned how she opened up to me more than anyone, even her parents (which says a lot), and that she trusted me more than anyone.  That all changed in marriage, though, when it became apparent we weren't moving to live by them. Then she suddenly couldn't trust me with anything. When we finally saw a T, the T initially made some very good observations, but as my wife spent more 1-on-1 time with her, they seemed to buddy up, and I believe the T is absorbed in her world now.  She's just so good at managing her reality and removing anyone who threatens to unravel it.

Her dad is visiting at the house for a week. That likely means some "pieces are moving".  Whenever either of her parents come to visit, there's a task to be accomplished. Incidentally, they always visit separately unless they're coming for some shared event, like a family reunion.  I've never been able to find a reason why this is, or what it means.

I am very fearful for how she'll hurt and negatively shape our kids. I know she loves them, but I know she's also not aware of her behavior and its impact on others.  I had pleaded with her over the years to get professional help, for herself, and also for the sake of our kids, because, I reasoned, if she treated me this way, she'd eventually treat them that way, as well. I always had the sense that as the kids got older and more independent, her aggression toward them would increase. My T recently brought that up with me and confirmed my fears.  I think it's already beginning to show in how she interacts with our 4 y.o. son. She consistently refers to him as "strong-willed" and seeks to employ very stern measures with him such insisting as we must spank (with a wooden spoon even), that 4 y.o.s "can't be reasoned with", and demanding "first time obedience." I don't mean to start a debate on parenting techniques here, but to contrast her approach with mine, which sees my son as a very compliant boy who only gets more frustrated and rebellious with harsh punishment, but who will behave very well when treated with respect and disciplined reasonably. 

[formflier]

The spanking thing got out of hand in our relationship.  I reported my wife to Social Services when she wouldn't stop... .we no longer spank our children.

For years we would occasionally spank ... .including me doing it, and I believed it was appropriate.  So, I'm not a "never spank" guy.

As things shifted in our r/s and got more "BPDish" I stopped spanking and my wife would refuse to discuss technique, she would spank over similar things that you mentioned... .first time obedience... .etc etc.

It seemed to get more and more unreasonable and my children seemed to get more and more frustrated.

The spanking in anger got more an more.  I finally couldn't stand it anymore so I made the report.

Anyway... .parenting techniques is a good debate to have.  I try to be open minded and I believe that "properly applied" just about any parenting technique is good, especially if done consistently. 

First time obedience is wonderful... I push for that.   The adult has a responsibility to make sure the child is paying attention and the message has been received.  My wife tried to morph it into kids should spend 100% of their time "listening for mommy to say something... ."... .which is completely unreasonable.

1.  Step 1... .get their attention. 
2.  Pass message
3.  Expect obedience.

I watched her "claim" that kids had heard her... when they clearly hadn't, and honestly I blamed her technique (looking away while speaking in a soft voice, not using a child's name... etc et). 

Then... I was "taking the kids side" which enraged her further.

I say all this to emphasize that if you think kids are frustrated... .rather than disciplined by spanking... .you need to intervene sooner rather than later.

FF

[RealityMgt]

I agree, I *do* need to intervene quickly when I sense her methods and expectations frustrate them, which seems to happen frequently.  She seems to swing between really loose and overly restrictive, with the restrictive side being quickly escalated and very demanding. It seems to frustrate my son. Unless this changes, I expect it will get worse as both of the kids age and become more independent.

By way of update, our initial court date is only two weeks out. I'm still getting the apartment kid-ready, and meanwhile she's let on that she's trying to reduce my parenting time to every other weekend and "maybe" some weeknight time. Currently I see go to the house two weeknights, make dinner, and put the kids to bed, then spend all day every Saturday with them while she works (before they're up to after they're in bed), and every other Sunday I pick them up for church and spend the day at the house with them until she comes back home around dinner time. When asked why she'd do this, or how it's good for the kids, she only answers, "I didn't want it to come to this, but I only wanted one thing", that is, relocation. Which isn't true. She's had very inflexible demands about a number of things, such as parenting time and finances. It sounds nice when she says it to people, though. This summer she'd said she was then (July) so angry with me about relocation that she was tempted to use the parenting plan against me. I mentioned that to her this week and she of course denied ever saying such a thing. My attorney's told me to document all such statements for the GAL to refer to. In all this I'm hurt, hurt for the kids, and angry that she would use them as a currency or punishment/reward in order to get her way.  She's been doing this the whole time; offering "so much more" if I'd just "trust her judgment as a mom" and accept relocation, and withdrawing and threatening to withdraw access to the kids when her anger with me flares up.

[formflier]

Is your documentation solid?  Any recordings?

FF

[RealityMgt]

For months I've been recording every in person interaction I have with her (I wish I had started from day one, though). We have very few phone calls, and I try to avoid them because I can't record them (haven't figured out the technical side, and I'm not sure it's legal). She seems to use the phone when she needs to say something she doesn't want to have captured in text.  Thankfully, text is her preferred method of communication and she's said things by text that exhibit the behavior mentioned in my last post. There are numerous recordings of her saying these kinds of things as well. My attorney's told me writing is preferred over recordings, but recordings may be valuable as well.

[livednlearned]

she's let on that she's trying to reduce my parenting time to every other weekend and "maybe" some weeknight time

She doesn't get to decide who gets what when it comes to the kids 

Currently I see go to the house two weeknights, make dinner, and put the kids to bed, then spend all day every Saturday with them while she works (before they're up to after they're in bed), and every other Sunday I pick them up for church and spend the day at the house with them until she comes back home around dinner time.

Does your L think this is the schedule that will become status quo?

[RealityMgt]

She doesn't get to decide who gets what when it comes to the kids.

I know, but she does get to fight for it. She continually refers to parenting arrangements in terms of "fair" and "deserve", in reference to what happened in our marriage. She sees kids as the currency or punishment/reward lever that she has the moral authority to wield. When I told our mediator before our first mediation session that my wife's position was inflexible and she'd offered to "give me so much more time with the kids" if I accepted relocation, the mediator's firm response was "It's not *hers* to give!" Unfortunately, her obstinate position and entitled perception could result in a parenting arrangement that's far less than ideal. My L said we may end up starting at the court's default plan and over time, with a GAL or CE, being able to chip away at it to get something better.  I've taken care of my kids since they were infants, I stayed overnight with them alone while they were nursing while my wife worked nights, I've taken care of them consistently in every way she has, and I was always home and engaged with them when I wasn't working. I never did "football in the den all day Sunday" (not that that's even wrong!), but when I wasn't at work I was *very* engaged with the family.  I'd take off work to do doctor's visits, not because she couldn't, but because I always wanted to be there. I scouted out the preschools, not my wife. And I could go on. I hope these are things that get considered. 

Does your L think this is the schedule that will become status quo?

She's said it's possible because it's been in place so long, but she said not to worry yet, because there is more than ample evidence/documentation that I've never been satisfied with it and only allowed it to continue (by not filing earlier) because I thought there may be a chance to work things out more peaceably and to arrive at a more balanced solution. 

[livednlearned]

I know, but she does get to fight for it. She continually refers to parenting arrangements in terms of "fair" and "deserve", in reference to what happened in our marriage.

She has a mental illness that distorts reality, so her definition of fair will be different than what a court sees as fair.

And asking for more than what is fair is par for the course in family court. It's often a negotiating strategy, although a BPD sufferer is more likely to make these pronouncements based on entitlement, not negotiation strategy. It can help to ask for more than what you expect so that you can cede terms until you reach the compromise you feel is acceptable. And the other side feels they got a "win" because you didn't get everything you wanted.

My L said we may end up starting at the court's default plan and over time, with a GAL or CE, being able to chip away at it to get something better.

 

That's how it worked in my case, more or less.

Courts aren't great at figuring out what's going on in the family, so sometimes it will set up a 50/50 and then you have to document a pattern of problematic parenting. In my case, what caught the court's attention is my ex's (a lawyer) inability to follow what was a pretty simple parenting order. Most reasonable people don't want to end up back in court, and don't find it hard to adhere to terms they agreed to (which we did in mediation). That kind of stuff starts to look pretty strange to a judge.

I've taken care of my kids since they were infants, I stayed overnight with them alone while they were nursing while my wife worked nights, I've taken care of them consistently in every way she has, and I was always home and engaged with them when I wasn't working. I never did "football in the den all day Sunday" (not that that's even wrong!), but when I wasn't at work I was *very* engaged with the family.  I'd take off work to do doctor's visits, not because she couldn't, but because I always wanted to be there. I scouted out the preschools, not my wife. And I could go on. I hope these are things that get considered. 

What I've read, based on research, is that more moms ask for more custody than dads. In the cases where dads ask for more custody, they are just as likely to get what they ask for as moms who ask.

Sometimes, too, Ls try to manage a dad's expectations, telling them that dads don't tend to get x amount of custody, and then end up perpetuating that exact bias.

[RealityMgt]

Just a quick thought, before replying more later: 

50/50... .what does this term mean?  The standard plan in this state says for dads it's something like every other weekend and a night or two during the week.  And yet I keep hearing people say 50/50. This doesn't look anything like 50/50, at least not how I do math... .

[flourdust]

50/50 means an equal split in overnights - there are multiple ways to get there: for example, alternating Fri-Mon overnights combined with alternating three weekdays on opposing weeks.

The assumption in my state is 50/50 assuming both parents are invested and capable.

[livednlearned]

50/50... .what does this term mean?  The standard plan in this state says for dads it's something like every other weekend and a night or two during the week.  And yet I keep hearing people say 50/50. This doesn't look anything like 50/50, at least not how I do math... .

Every other weekend can start at 3pm on Friday and end with you dropping the kids off at school at 8am on Monday. Or, it can be you picking the kids up from mom's Sat morning at 10am and dropping them off Sun at 7pm (or some variation).

Same with a night in the middle of the week. You could get 5-7 on a Wed night, or you could get after school + overnight (dropping off at school the next morning), or returning them home at 8pm after doing homework.

If you have Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun overnights once a week, you could then do Wed, Fri, Sat overnights alternating weeks, trying to get things as close to 50/50 as possible, spread over two weeks.

Your ex will love it if you ask for more overnights 

And your kids will benefit from having you tuck them in and wake them up as much as possible, establishing those routines with you.

[Swiggle]

Is there a way to upload an attachment to posts. I have an excel spreadsheet that shows a couple of different scenarios about 50/50 splits that I think might be helpful.

[RealityMgt]

Some updates in my story... .

Church Life
I've become a member at our (new) church. This is a big deal for me, as Christian life was a huge part of my life from age 21 to about three years ago (when the marriage really fell apart internally). This year has been an incredible time of restoration of my faith in a way I could not have imagined.  In that regard, it's been the best year of my life.  While the external situation has continued to fall apart, internally I've been better than ever. Church membership was something my wife always objected to in our marriage, because she was convinced we'd be relocating by her parents. Since moving to our metro area 12 years ago, I'd been very involved at the church - leadership teams for youth groups, teaching Sunday school, etc. - and ended up pulling back from a lot of that when we got married.  But I've long wanted to be a member of the church.  So this summer with the bizarre falling out with one of the pastors (directly) and the church leadership (indirectly), and with my wife beginning to take our kids to a different church (she says it was because the one we've gone to for eight years was too inconvenient (?) ), I was feeling very displaced. I didn't want to take the kids back and forth between churches, so I started going to the "new" church.  It's one I'd gone to initially when I moved here 12 years ago, before finding the church I've been at.  So, it's a place and people I was already familiar with. I met with one of the pastors and the former divorce ministry leader (I think I mentioned this earlier) and began the path to membership. The leadership knows our story and the things I did to contribute to the collapse of our marriage. I went through my membership interview with a church leader who has himself walked that path (though his wife did not divorce him), so he could relate to the things I've been through and am going through. It's good to be here. My wife, however, continues to assert she doesn't need to talk to church leadership at the new church about our divorce (even though it was her initiative to go there) because we've "gone through that process at our church". When asked which church is "our church" she points to the old one, though she doesn't go there and isn't involved there at all, and IS involved in several things at the new one (two bible studies each week and a workout group for moms during daytime weekdays), in addition to attending there.  The new church is very opposed to divorce, the old one had the mindset of "you should consider reconciling, but we'll support whatever you decide, and you should get whatever you want from 'the bad guy'". The cognitive dissonance that exhibited itself in conversations with their leadership was absolutely mind boggling, especially for a church whose mega pastor prides himself on intellectualism. But I digress... .

Court
Our first court appearance is this week.  My attorney and I touched base last week, and she expects that we'll get some resolution around the financial situation and an interim parenting plan. I had been thinking my wife wants our finances split, because she's constantly talking about us having "boundaries" and being finally "separated", but this weekend something happened that made me begin to seriously doubt that.  She texted to ask if I'd be OK with her spending $600 to fly her and the kids to her parents for a week. My thought was, "that's not a necessary familial expense, so put it on your CC," and then I realized that's what I have been doing, but not at all what she has been doing. I've tried to protect the little shared funds we have left, while she's used them for whatever she wants. Granted, she's not a big spender by any stretch of the imagination, but she's shown no signs of keeping spending on her to herself.  So I asked if she expects split finances as an output from our first court appearance, since she had plated up finances as the topic for that day (I added parenting topic).  She only said, "it could take a while" and then kept asking why I want to know.  So I wonder if she actually wants to keep finances together so she has access to the whole pile, or if she is only dodging the question because she knows I'm implying she should pay for this trip herself and she's trying to snatch up the cash before it's split (and she is asking my approval merely for optics). I brought up how it's odd she thinks this should be a joint expense but has opposed me using joint funds to prepare the apartment for the kids. Her reasoning on that is that I chose too expensive of a place and have used our HSA money on a counselor, so somehow that means kid essentials aren't a joint expense (what the heck?).

Regarding parenting, I'm going to seek for the interim that the two weeknights I put the kids to bed at her (our) house be converted to overnights at my apartment and that I have the kids there Friday and Saturday nights as well. She works a 12-hour shift every Saturday, leaving the house at 5:30 and not getting back until well after the kids are in bed, so it makes sense for them to just be with me Fri/Sat night. With Sundays, I would like us to alternate; "ON" weeks for me would have me bring that to her in the afternoon, "OFF" weeks I would bring them over before church.  That way we both get to take the to church. I think this is a pretty reasonable split, although ideally we'd both see the kids all the time (this isn't about "fair" for mom v. dad, it's about what's good for the kids), and if not that, then I would still think since she's with them M-F all day I should get all the evening time with them... .but that won't happen. SIGH.

HELP
I'm looking for help thinking through what her "game plan" might be. Here are some things I can't quite understand:

• She keeps talking about us being split, separated, divided, having boundaries, etc. but is evasive on the topic of splitting finances
• More than anything, she wants to relocate, but she didn't put that in any of the papers. My L thought this was odd.
• My L called her L to talk about finances/parenting, but the call was never returned. My L said, "she could just be busy, but it was a bit strange."
• She keeps asking to see my apartment. In my mind that makes sense from the standpoint of her wanting to feel good about the place the kids are going to stay, but I feel like every time I've tried to be considerate of her, she's turned it against me. I don't know how she may want to use this against me, but I feel reluctant to trust her, even though I want her to feel good about it and not be worried. A close friend who's been walking through this with me, cautioned, "She's never satisfied. Nothing you do will be good enough." And he's right. In the marriage and now, nothing is ever good enough. It's like it's two separate currencies; she demands X, but it's actually Y that she wants. Y is a deeper heart issue (anxiety, insecurity, etc.), but she thinks she can fix it with X. I deliver X to her and it always disappoints.  So, with this, nothing I can do at the apartment will be good enough. Even if she doesn't intend to use this against me, she'll still have made up problems with the place. If I don't have her visit, then she'll accuse me of secrecy, endangering the kids ("he must be hiding something!", etc.  One of my friends, who went through all this last year (his wife kept using all his acts of kindness against him), said "It's hard to keep smiling when you keep getting kicked in the teeth." All that to say, my L said she agrees my wife may try to use it against me, but the GAL or CE will also visit my place, and it's their word that matters, not my wife's.  She said ultimately it may benefit me in the court's eyes if I have her visit, as it reinforces my pattern of trying to be helpful and working together even when I have nothing to gain by these actions.

I think it's ironic that she keeps painting me as "the bad guy" but in this whole situation I continually default to looking out for her, whereas she continually defaults to taking advantage of me.

[livednlearned]

Hey RealityMgt,

I'm so glad you found a new church that is fulfilling you so much  

The same happened for me, and marked a real turning point in my life.

About the apartment, one thing I do with BPD people in my life is to say no while saying yes to something else. For example, "I am happy to have you take a look at the place. We can set up a time after the GAL has been here for a visit." That way you're being cooperative (if it matters to the court) while also setting a limit that is perfectly reasonable. And it might even act as an incentive for her to move forward with the CE, which she could otherwise sabotage for no other reason than managing her own anxiety about the home visit.

Setting limits is going to become a big part of post-divorce life so this is just as much for you as it is for her, learning how to have new boundaries. Even emotionally healthy people have to navigate this stuff. The difference with your wife is that she will, like you say, become consumed with Y when it's really about X (great way to describe it, btw).

About the finances, she wants you out of the picture, unless it's convenient for her, and keep all the money and the kids to herself. That's how that works.  

About the relocation stuff, maybe there is no urgency to have those details hammered out at this stage? Or maybe someone has told her how difficult it will be? Or maybe she knows deep down that living near her parents will engulf her, and she only talks about it as a way to create some semblance of control over her interpersonal stress with you? BPD logic is hard to second-guess, sometimes. Maybe she just didn't get her act together in time.

About the not responding to calls, stonewalling and obstructing is kinda common in BPD divorces. It's stressful to divorce, and people with BPD don't do stress well. She might be shutting down, or feel flooded with emotion.