Looking back, I never had a chance to begin with.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Does anyone else have the same feeling after a breakup with a BPD? That regardless of any factor, looks, personality or charm it would have ended the same way. Sometimes I think the script for the entire play was written before the first date.

[En1gma]

Does anyone else have the same feeling after a breakup with a BPD? That regardless of any factor, looks, personality or charm it would have ended the same way. Sometimes I think the script for the entire play was written before the first date.

[confusedbloke]

Completely agree.  My ex is trying to engage with me now because I have turned the tables and am not interested.  But I know that she only wants me because I don't want her.  If I were to give up and go back to her, the thrill of the chase will eventually die for her, and I will go through all this again... .

I'm aware of this.  She wont change without help.  I would rather have sanity than her

[En1gma]

Completely agree.  My ex is trying to engage with me now because I have turned the tables and am not interested.  But I know that she only wants me because I don't want her.  If I were to give up and go back to her, the thrill of the chase will eventually die for her, and I will go through all this again... .

I'm aware of this.  She wont change without help.  I would rather have sanity than her

I'm having a similar experience, when I remain aloof she's interested in me. I become engaged and she shuts me out.

[Hisaccount]

It really does seem like it is written down in a play book somewhere.

They don't realize it or believe it, but it is true. Look at the countless recycles people talk about. Always end the same.
The mounds and mounds of information here, true life stories.
It was going to end the same unless they are committed to working on themselves.

It will happen again and again in their lives. They will believe they found the one and then it will come crashing down and the cycle starts over with someone new.

There is nothing any of us could have done. We can only control ourselves. For those that believe in destiny, their relationships will always be destined to fail before they start.

[vortex of confusion]

There is nothing any of us could have done. We can only control ourselves.

I could have walked away sooner. The cycle kept continuing between the ex and I because I allowed it to happen. I know that a lot of people here post about how the cycle continues with someone else. The same can be said for those that claim to be nons. If I do not look at why I continually allowed myself to be treated poorly, I will continue it in future relationships. It is easy to say that the relationship was doomed because of them.

It was also doomed because of me not being able to stand up and say, "No way. I am NOT going to tolerate that kind of behavior." and then walk away. When I did try to stand up and say those things, he would find a way to suck me back in. I wanted to believe him and I would give him chance after chance even though his past behavior indicated that this was as good as it was going to get. I try to tell myself that his future relationships are none of my business and not my concern. I try to tell myself that my focus should be on me and why I allowed myself to get in that kind of relationship to begin with.

[Skip]

Hey guys, don't ever sell yourself this narrative.

Close your eyes and think of every single person you dated in your life. Seriously. Say their names to yourself.

OK.

Now, ask yourself two question about each relationship. Did it end? Is it fair to say that one or both partner in the relationship never had a chance to begin with?

OK, what value is this information to you (serious question)?

[SuperJew82]

I think the idea going around here is something a little different:

Did we have a possibility of a healthy relationship with our pwBPD traits? Was there no reasonable possibility of it working?

I can certainly name some of the girls I have dated that ended, and guess what - some did have possibilities and I could have with just a little extra healthy effort make it work. Sometimes I even look back and regret it just a little in a  " didn't know what I had " kind of way.

With our pwBPD, there was absolutely nothing that we could have done to have reached our goals of a happy and healthy relationship.

Some roads we just don't end up taking for normal reasons and some roads just surprise you as they wind down to a spiraling roller coaster to hell.

[confused4now]

 Wow, this is good thread . I think we all give great perspectives. I am in the same spot as vortex of confusion, and superJewl82. When you are with a BPD, the deck is stacked against you. I start to feel like a victim because I was never told and he knew, I am not sure if he agreed.  If both partners are happy and agree about love / commitment in a relationship that is not afflicted with this illness, their is hope it could last.  If things do go sour and it ends, it is painful, but both are able to move on.  Not the case with BPD,  the nature of the illness is false emotions, rejection, and confusion. rinse then repeat until both are somewhat jaded. If I would have respected my own boundaries, and listen to my instincts , I could have avoided 5 painful years. Now I try to be grateful the ride is over, and feel compassion for my ex, he has lived with the pain his entire life.

[En1gma]

Hey guys, don't ever sell yourself this narrative.

Close your eyes and think of every single person you dated in your life. Seriously. Say their names to yourself.

OK.

Now, ask yourself two question about each relationship. Did it end? Is it fair to say that one or both partner in the relationship never had a chance to begin with?

OK, what value is this information to you (serious question)?

You're trying to compare a healthy relationship to a dysfunctional relationship. Although there are similarities the BPD relationship is terribly flawed. Because of the nature of the person with BPD, in my opinion the script will always play out the same with a few exceptions.

[Skip]

OK, maybe another time for this will be better. Carry on, men.   

[SuperJew82]

I do want to add it that it makes me feel better and detach a little easier if I think " This is something that is something that could have never moved into fruition, as in the healthy and happy relationship that I have set out to obtain. I didn't really "lose" anything. I may grieve the loss of the idea of finding a healthy relationship, but I should take this from a learning experience and time of self-reflection. First of all, we need to find happiness and satisfaction in life outside of a relationship. Relationships should compliment your life, not rule it.

I think if we distance ourselves from the sufferers of BPD, we can start to drop the tunnel vision. Out of compassion we should step back and think about a few things; most of us know that we are not healthy for the pwBPD ( and they are not healthy for us ). There may be people that are better suited for them and their maybe people better suited for us.

Most of us are here on this website because we do have an idea that we aren't 100% healthy ourselves, and being aware of this and working on ourselves is absolutely paramount - and anything that helps us detach is a good thing.

So personally, I think I have gained from this experience - but I feel that there was virtually no possibility of that relationship becoming something that would make me happy and fulfilled and should not be a reason to mourn for an "extended" time.

This idea helps me detach and move towards a healthier life and get closer to my goals. That's just me though. If that helps others detach, well that's good too. I'm no therapist, of course :P

[Seenowayout]

most of us know that we are not healthy for the pwBPD ( and they are not healthy for us ). There may be people that are better suited for them and their maybe people better suited for us.

SuperJewl82 -- while I totally agree with you -- this is the sort of thing that gets my circular rumination going.  Goes something like "I know my enabling codependency was not good for her, but I know myself well enough at least to know I am enablingly codependent, but I couldn't change that because she would leave me if I did  ... .  but she won't admit that she has cluster issues in the first place, which is the root of the problem, if she would only admit that and get treatment there would be hope, but instead she ran to a thug who won't tolerate it and who won't walk on eggshells and who will try to forcefully keep her in line, which of course in the end will never work and isn't healthy for her at all, and I truly love her and I know  what's best for her, I can take care of her and  ... ."  Argh!  There I go again. 

The main thing I got out of therapy is I am arrogant for even thinking I could "fix" her.  I know what's healthy for me.  I'm sad because I have no idea what's healthy for her.  And I loved her.  I failed her.

[SuperJew82]

I also think that I might also be "arrogant" in that regards. It's in my nature to fix things, and I hope I'm doing it for the better. I think that something I should ponder.

She would always say that I try to manipulate her. In the strict definition of the word, yes, I would try to change her. I would like to stop the maladaptive behaviour. Stop the sabotaging and deceiving. Stop the mood swings. Stop her from getting herself into bad situations.

I also understand how the dominant "thug" person would appeal to her as some pwBPD feel a need to be re-parented. I always would put my foot down and stand my ground - my weakness would be in the fact that she would come back at me with the force of a hurricane and I would cave in and try another round.

Do I subconsciously try to seek out people who I can "fix" ? I've only been in three very long-term relationships and two out of the three would be classified as that type. My ex-wife didn't go off the deep-end until we had children. Before that we were just fine. This is another interesting subject.

Am I narcissistic in enjoying the idealization of a pwBPD... .not sure. I did enjoy how she made me feel that I was important and I felt the same about her.

I know ENFJ's are not common to be engineers. I am humble. I wear nothing but jeans and t-shirts, drive a little civic, and get highs from helping people in need. I'm sure everyone has narcissistic traits, but I hope and do not think I am one.

Thank you for that insightful reply!

[Seenowayout]

More relating to you on my part Super ...

1)  I never wanted drama.  My mom and five sisters were all drama.   I had enough.  I've dated a good amount of women before marriage (most drama free) and had been married for 20 years before my BPD experience happened.  My wife reminded me in the midst of this marriage ending nightmber that I selected her BECAUSE she was drama free.  She's right.  But I guess I missed the drama?  Subconciously?  Weird that it came out at this time in my lie.  Darn mommy issues.
2)  Similarly, as an INFP I am not a typical scientist/entrepreneur perhaps. But because I am intuitive and feeling and perceiving I seem to be good with people -- in fact I'm a down right real people pleaser!  Helps with staff and customers.  Mostly.  Until it doesn't.
3)  I drive a 10 year old Hyundai and sleep on an air mattress.  I have two lawn chairs a TV in my apartment.  I have one pair of brown shoes and one pair of sneakers.  I brag about this all the time.  I am so proud of my humbleness it nauseates even me. 

So... .yeah, I got issues.  But at least I admit it. 

Gotta go fix something ... .

[Conundrum]

A non/pwBPD inherently is an "outlier" romantic relationship--"a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set."

Setting traditional relationship notions as the benchmark for success when involved with a pwBPD, speaks more about co-dependent traits, and/or wishful thinking within the non, then it does about relational limitations concerning the pwBPD.

These "joining's" that we post about are humanistic endeavors in which imperfect sentient beings attempt to exchange meaningful facets of their romantic lives. Thereby, receiving some form of relational remuneration which both parties desire.

For a non, the endeavor routinely entails mirroring stability, intimacy and quasi-mature love to a person who suffered a core traumatic attachment wound, often in the formational years of early childhood. Because, when traumatic abandonment concerning the primary source of nourishing love is abruptly assassinated, the child's psychological, emotional and relational development becomes singularly altered onto a disordered trajectory. That disordered trajectory remains a constant (absent brilliant therapy and a sincere desire to progress) throughout the course of a pwBPD's life and is evidenced via intimate relationships with well meaning often besotted nons. For the pwBPD, this type of joining/relationship strongly fulfills certain needs/patterns pertaining to the abandonment cycle--that very well may be the closest they ever come to experiencing a traditional stable romantic relationship. Regardless, whether they are capable of sustaining said relational construct.        

However, that relational endeavor for the non, ultimately becomes fraught/mired in unhealthy dependence, without sufficient differentiation--while concomitantly triggering insecurities resulting in control mechanisms aimed at locking the pwBPD into the nons paradigm for a joining that will last in perpetuity. The non does not want to lose a relationship that has become the defining element in their lives, and nearly subsumes and/or consumes their identity. That is not healthy love, because both parties have permitted it to devolve into a disordered Danse Macabre.

However, after-the-fact, we should offer ourselves grace and absolution, instead of shaming, victimizing, or vilifying (the pwBPD).  For as the "Smiths" song goes... "I am human and I need to be loved. Just like everybody else does."

So, we all suffer. Because, the seeds that germinate Axis II cluster B disorders are often rooted in horrible child abuse. Yet, the endeavor itself (joining), possesses both beauty and heartache. And perhaps in the trying, we come to see... .that all things change, and that love, even when it doesn't result in eternal bliss, is about inclusion (of all different sorts of people). I wish you all peace.       

[Seenowayout]

Wow.  Thank you Conundrum.  I sure love this board.

[SuperJew82]

Thank you for the post. I believe that to be a very simple way to describe how "love stinks" and "love stinks even more sometimes".

This reminds me:

If you want to get into the nitty-gritty mechanics of transactional analysis in interpersonal relationships, I suggest reading:

I'm OK, You're OK

https://www.amazon.com/Im-Youre-Thomas-Harris-M-D/dp/1578660750/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=F0Y56NQK7W68A0DGM69D

You have to look past the references of "tape recordings" and other 1970's terms - but I think it's a foundational book if you really want to know what happens between people.

As an engineer, I studied how computer systems talk to each at a very low level - not just the technical level where " Plug this into that and watch it light up "

If nothing ever screwed up in my world, that is all I would really have to know. However, things do break and go wrong - as they do in relationships. If I didn't grasp what was actually going on inside the wires or radio waves, it would be really hard for me to diagnose or correct it.

Is there a book list on this website anywhere? I'm sure there has to be, but I'm too lazy to look for it.

[Harley Quinn]

Ask and thou shalt receive... .

Book Club: Previews and Discussions

Love and light x