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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Split Black once and for all?  (Read 1052 times)
Oncebitten
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« on: October 02, 2017, 11:26:00 AM »

Well Its been a while since I have posted here.  I think that I have finally been split black and I don't know that there is any going back this time.  I think she set up my replacement a month or so ago.  I find myself blocked online, without an email once again and my number blocked.  I love her but this just isnt worth it anymore.  She wanted nothing more than a friendship at the end.  And I was still being punished for my actions over a year ago.  She blocked me a week ago, then text me one day to ask if I was calling her.  I assured her it was not me.  Not sure if that text was just to see if Id answer or what. 

For the first time I am not in a panic about getting her back.  She has ended us so many times for the most frivolous stuff... .and I am tired of apologizing and fixing something I didn't break.  Not sure if I will hear from her again or not... .she told me to let her fade from my memory just as she had my life
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 04:08:49 PM »

Sounds like the going is rough and you're coming to accept it (even if it's just a little for now). I hope you're able to heal through this and eventually come away with new emotional tools and sources of support.

You've got this. You can handle this.
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 04:24:10 PM »

Oncebitten -

For what it's worth I'm dealing with similar things. My BPD wife won't speak to me; verbal or messages. I'm not blocked but might as well be.

It does sound that you're accepting it though, which is wonderful. I did last week and it was a positive turning point for me.

As people always suggest, please take care of yourself! Pay attention to your brain and don't let it get out of hand. It helps me to just go do something I like, even if it's just for an hour or two. This past weekend I drove almost 2 hours and spent the weekend helping my brother with home projects and riding 4-wheelers together. It was just enough to give my brain a rest. Naturally you don't have to do this type thing, but just decide what would make you happen and go do it. Give yourself a break.

You also need to look forward, to the future. I'm already planning how to "re-invent" myself after the divorce is settled. I've always had a lot of interests in snorkling at the beach, so I've been looking at gear. I'm 6 hours drive from the beach but what the heck - I'll have time on my hands to go do it.

Just a few suggestions. We are in similar places.



   
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 03:28:18 AM »

OB—it is never “once and for all” with this person.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 08:43:40 AM »

Two possible situations:

1) She has taken a step in the push pull dance that the two of you dance together. She's been the leader in this dance. She steps, you follow.

2) She really means it, and it is over.

I can't read her mind and neither can you. The only options you have is to keep following her lead in this dance and wait for her to take the next step. The other option you have is to set your own path and walk on it. Will it be towards your own decision to let this go and heal emotionally, or will it be to keep doing what you have been doing? You are looking at her for a sign of what to do, but the answer is up to you if you choose to take the lead in your own path.
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 08:58:17 AM »

Sorry, I agree with Notwendy. What I meant to say is that you repeatedly post declarations like this one (“once and for all”) as if you don’t see that it is a cycle; then, when she does shift and actually, it turns out she still likes you, you accord that too much significance.

Based on the past, it is highly likely that this is not the permanent resolution on her end; that she will unblock you; that she will pull you back in in some way. You’re already seeing it—she texts you to see if you are calling, when you’re not calling, ostensibly because she doesn’t want you to call, but likely because she likes the attention of you trying to reach her even if she then turns down your overtures.

I was trying to say—when you post “is she gone for good?” you set up the wrong question; then, when it turns out she is not gone for good, you let that information weigh too heavily in your assessment of what this is and can be.
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 12:14:07 PM »

Two possible situations:

1) She has taken a step in the push pull dance that the two of you dance together. She's been the leader in this dance. She steps, you follow.

2) She really means it, and it is over.

I can't read her mind and neither can you. The only options you have is to keep following her lead in this dance and wait for her to take the next step. The other option you have is to set your own path and walk on it. Will it be towards your own decision to let this go and heal emotionally, or will it be to keep doing what you have been doing? You are looking at her for a sign of what to do, but the answer is up to you if you choose to take the lead in your kan path.


I do not know the OP's history with this person, but I really appreciate the help which is given here.

In my previous experience with a pwBPD I made one simple mistake. I kept playing my part in the push pull dance. Because I cared too much ... .But her multiple Silent Treatments drove me mad. During her final one I just was not able to break her silence anymore. It kept me awake at night and I finally decided that this had become too much... .

I never heard from her again. Did I end it? Or did she? Did she get her attention from someone else now and did not need me anymore? Or was it my conscious choice to stop playing my part in the dance?

I am in a similar situation right now with someone else. And I still feel this decision is an extremely hard one! Even though I've experienced this before.
I would love to remain friends and enjoy her company and I am absolutely positive that the current Silent Treatment I am enduring is a non final one. If I would wish her a happy birthday or merry Christmas, she would probably return to her 'friendly version' for a (short?) while.

But that's the most difficult part. Am I ready to already make the conscious decision to step out of her dance? I am not so sure unfortunately... .:-(

Are you? Are you ready to really make that conscious decision and stick with it?

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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 05:47:00 AM »

I am in a similar situation right now with someone else

This isn't an unusual pattern. We have a part in these relationships and tend to choose this push pull dance and stay in it. There is something about our part in this that we are getting something out of. This may not make sense- it isn't pleasant to be in the pushed away part.

These relationship pattern can have an addictive affect. The high of the togetherness, followed by the low- withdrawal and craving for more of the together part.

We may meet other people who are more steady in their behavior, and find that there is a lack of "chemistry" there. Some of us grew up in families with this kind of behavior and the push pull feels familiar and in a way comfortable.

We love who we love, but if we find ourselves in a pattern of dysfunction and want to change, it starts with looking at ourselves- our part in the dysfunction- because we may be attracting and attracted to people who fit us emotionally.


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Lost-love-mind
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 06:33:08 AM »

Even though my relationship is long over and I've been painted black three and a half months ago and I've only heard from her twice since, I'm glad to read these boards and decide I never want to be recycled. Particular after reading the tortured many go through with knowing that their exBPD has replaced them with another poor sucker.
Why do I want someone back in my life that dumped for "frivolous stuff" and accused me to be the malignant narcissistic male that was transferred in her mind from her abusive exhubby.
I never once raised my voice to this woman.
I let her make all the choices of our activities together.
I introduced her to my boss and later she emails him post breakup accusations that were nowhere near the truth.

Why would I want that back in my life?
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 08:36:11 AM »

I am in a similar situation right now with someone else

This isn't an unusual pattern. We have a part in these relationships and tend to choose this push pull dance and stay in it. There is something about our part in this that we are getting something out of. This may not make sense- it isn't pleasant to be in the pushed away part.

These relationship pattern can have an addictive affect. The high of the togetherness, followed by the low- withdrawal and craving for more of the together part.

We may meet other people who are more steady in their behavior, and find that there is a lack of "chemistry" there.
Some of us grew up in families with this kind of behavior and the push pull feels familiar and in a way comfortable.

We love who we love, but if we find ourselves in a pattern of dysfunction and want to change, it starts with looking at ourselves- our part in the dysfunction- because we may be attracting and attracted to people who fit us emotionally.




I know you are right there. But as I recently mentioned in my own thread in this subforum: professionals say this is mostly due to the fact I perfectly fit the role of the caretaker. So the BPD or at least BPD traits will unfortunately be a recurring theme in my life :-(

Personally I think some other factors make me vulnerable as well:
-) I really do NOT fit in the current 'go clubbing' atmosphere. And although I have no trouble talking to the opposite sex, I do NOT like to be a 'hunter'.
It seems to me a lot of girls are unfortunately expecting this stereotype behaviour though... .
Therefore I still think it's nice when a girl just comes up to me and chat. Or is able to maintain a fun conversation when I am talking to her.

-) I never experienced the terrible side of BPD from the beginning. It always seems to start with a really nice couple of months (years?) in which she genuinely seems to appreciate me and almost sees me as her hero. The 'evil side' of BPD only seems to surface when the emotional bond gets really, really strong.
This seems so extremely counter-intuitive... .and that's why it hurts so much...

-) And yes... .tbh I do feel some people which do not show this spontaneous behaviour towards me quickly become ... .well... .boring :-(
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 10:38:40 AM »

These relationship pattern can have an addictive affect. The high of the togetherness, followed by the low- withdrawal and craving for more of the together part.

We may meet other people who are more steady in their behavior, and find that there is a lack of "chemistry" there. Some of us grew up in families with this kind of behavior and the push pull feels familiar and in a way comfortable.

Having had a BPD/NPD/ASPD husband and now "only" BPD current husband, I sometimes wonder about the boyfriends I rejected in my youth for being "boring" and wonder who they are now. It's become so apparent that I ended up with these BPD relationships because they felt familiar to me, having grown up with a BPD mother.

I often wonder what it would have been like to have been raised in a healthy family, without the drama or intensity of emotion. I too felt like I was the one that needed to soothe feelings, to make things right. It was a never-ending cycle and I continued that in my marriages.

Now, with my current husband, who I label as BPD-lite, I'm learning to step away from the drama, short circuit my desire to soothe wounded feelings, basically, let him be who he is without trying to interfere and "make things better." It's his responsibility to care for his feelings. Sure I try to be a good partner and not say things that he would interpret as critical, but with BPD on some days, just saying "It's a beautiful day," can be invalidating.

Having a BPD partner definitely adds complication to one's life. If I could, I would seriously interrogate my younger self and ask, "Is this really what you want? It is a package deal. No matter how good the good times are, take a look at the bad times. You can't choose to have only the good."
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2017, 11:19:39 AM »

Cat Familiar - I was raised by a BPD mother and a father whom didn't respond well to it. So I'm basically in my father's shoes now. However I've chosen for years to just not respond to my wife's BPD moments. It has caught up with me however, since I never set any limits with her.

My wife grew up in an even worse situation than I. It is funny how we travel the same path as others before us huh.

In regard to staying or leaving, my wife made that choice for me, as she filed for divorce a month ago. We're working on a settlement now. Anyway I've been asked how I feel about it. I'm relieved overall, but just not looking forward to establishing a new home for myself. I do look forward to spending time with my 2 kids outside the BPD ring however. Parenting within the ring has been pretty much impossible since my wife wanted to make all the parenting decisions alone.

Anyway, so are you staying or leaving?  
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2017, 02:38:08 PM »

Hey Wilderness Man,
It's amazing how many of us here on this board have a BPD family member in our background. Regarding your father, who could possibly instinctually respond well to a spouse with BPD?

We know a lot more about BPD than even a couple of decades ago. When I was in grad school, what I learned about BPD would only describe the most extreme cases, not people who are mostly functional, such as my husband. (And I'm staying, BTW. I've learned that if I accept what the relationship is and not try to recreate the ideal I thought it was at the beginning, there's a lot of upsides for me. I did have to grieve the "perfect" relationship I thought I had, get over the anger of feeling "duped" and look for the positives in what I have.)

I think my path is a lot easier than it is for a lot of people here because I don't have children. It was a conscious choice as a very young person. I didn't want to foist the childhood I had upon another individual, nor did I want to do a 180 and try and do the opposite of what I experienced. Either choice seemed doomed and I didn't have the maturity or the emotional background to figure out how to create a healthy environment.
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2017, 10:38:38 PM »

It is so hard to determine, once one is split black, to tell if the partner is just distancing or really devaluing us and leaving for good.

My uBPD/uNPD H can split me black (rages, divorce threats) and then the next morning act like nothing happened at all.

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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2017, 01:58:25 PM »

Ty all for your support.

Especially to you NotWendy and PatientandClear, you two have been here for my whole saga and have always been helpful and supportive.  Naturally It wasnt over when I posted that.  She came back shortly after.  But I have started to look at things differently.  The panic attacks of her threats to leave have stopped, the insane effort I would put forth to "win" her back has also stopped.  As much as I love her, I was unfairly punishing myself for her issues.  Mine have been put to bed in my mind, my "sins" atoned for long ago.  i dont play her games anymore.  If she wants to give the silent treatment I simply allow it.  If she wants to come around and talk that's fine, and if not I am ok with that too. 

Acceptance is where I am at this point with her, she doesn't want to commit to anything thats fine.  I am no longer under any commitment to listen when she goes off the rails.  I simply politely excuse myself from the conversation.  If she wants to abuse someone that's fine, just not going to be me.

I feel a little bit like the villagers in the boy who cried wolf... .heard all this to many times before and its lost all meaning.  Its a shame though really, if she ever really needs me, who's to say if I will answer the call. 
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2017, 02:22:14 PM »

OB I am glad for you that you feel more emotionally centered on this.


OB, your first responsibility is to take care of you.
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2017, 03:56:48 PM »

Askingwhy

I have been through this, not the next day but within mins, and in the same conversation.  Being berated one min then the next its general conversation, and 5 mins later I love you call me later.
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« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2017, 07:18:05 AM »

Catfamiliar

do you step back from your H until he comes around or do you wait so long and go talk to him?
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2017, 10:41:05 AM »

I'm learning to ignore him until he's ready to return and seek me out. It's a hard lesson for me because I'm such a Thinker rather than a Feeler in the Meyers Briggs typology. Even though I've had a lifetime of being around pwBPD, my default mode is to immediatly go to talking about the situation, which turns into JADEing (Ugh!), because I think anything can be talked about and resolved in an intellectual manner. (No matter how many times I've been proven wrong!)

Finally I'm starting to get the message. These people are just not put together the same way as I am. Ironically I'm very good with animals--I learn their ways of communication and they get along with me great. So, although this sounds sort of patronizing, I have to remind myself to use my animal training skills with my husband. Then it works out a lot better.

With my horses, cats, goats, sheep, donkey--I just become the most fascinating thing around and make no effort to seek them out and give it a bit of time--and they're drawn to me like a magnet.
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2017, 01:20:46 PM »

Cat


so in other words... .sit back and let them come to you
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2017, 06:46:11 PM »

That depends. Being passive and arranging the relationship around their moods is basically being a passive follower - makes the relationship about them.

If someone is in a bad mood, is using the ST- then letting them have their space till they get over it is about all you can do. It doesn't mean waiting - we can make plans- do our own thing till (if ) they are done with that.

Also consider the relationship. Someone who is married may have a different tolerance for some behaviors than a single person.

You can't make someone come around but you don't have to wait either. There are ways to be content. Self care - go hiking, work out, see a movie, call a friend.
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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2017, 07:52:13 AM »

NotWendy


very true.  I think my problem truly is I feel like I have turned my life completely upside down for this woman and if it just ends then what was it all for.  I realize that is more about me than her.  I suppose I need to learn to let go or move on or something.   It is the same it has always been with her, one day she loves me and lets plan our future.  The next, I dont know if thats going to work, lets just slow down and give each other a little space
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« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2017, 08:56:46 AM »

OB, I don't know what all your investment and turning your life around for her is for. But I think you have done it enough to see what the results of your actions are. What makes you think that doing the same thing over and over again is going to give you different results? How long can you keep on doing this? I don't have the answer.

She is who she is and I think you have been in a relationship long enough with her to see the pattern.

This isn't about her. It isn't about whether she says she loves you or needs some space. Your focus is entirely on her and so long as it is you can't look at yourself, what you want or what you are doing.

What is it about you that you wrap your life around her even though it isn't bringing you the results you say you want. Every behavior has a payoff or it doesn't continue. Also consider intermittent reinforcement is the strongest reinforcer. You keep trying for her and it occasionally works. You have to decide to stop this if you want it to stop.


OB, the issue is in your hands. You have to decide you've had enough. Or keep doing what you are doing.
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2017, 10:30:03 AM »

Notwendy

Everything I have done, has left me a mess.  Emotionally and physically.  This pattern has to stop, I know that but its that intermittent reinforcement... .she backs away I chase, sometimes she comes back sometimes she moves further away.  But then when I decide that i have had enough and start to think about leaving she lures me back and we move back up on top of the mountain.  I think if only... .and its great we make plans things progress... .then something minor happens and she kicks us right back down that mountain and into the valley.

I know... .this is who she is and is never going to change... .but like a fool or an addict I keep hoping for the best.
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« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2017, 10:53:31 AM »

My guess is that you haven't considered or tried dating other women. That you've been so absorbed by this woman and trying to win her, it's been all consuming.

I've been there too and I suspect that this desire of yours has roots in childhood. Did you have a BPD parent whose love you never got in full measure?

When you use the word "addict" I think you've gotten it right. And just like any other addiction, you need to decide if you want to keep on pursuing it for the very minuscule highs and the massive lows.

It seems that you've given this woman enough time to truly see how the pattern plays out. And that's the way it's going to be, no matter how much wishful thinking you invest.

When I was in your shoes, a Woody Allen quote kept popping up in my mind: "I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member." For me, my self esteem was so shaky that if I got this unattainable man to love me, then I'd be whole. But of course, this was just a fantasy.

Therapy really helped me with feeling worthwhile and expecting to be treated as a valuable human being. She's not treating you that way.

As you well know, the choice is yours.
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« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2017, 11:09:15 AM »

OB, have you considered 12 step groups and working with a sponsor as if this is a true addiction? You are feeling the similar affects as if it were a drug or alcohol. It isn't good for you but you just can't stop.

I was shocked when a counselor suggested this to me. I don't hardly drink or use drugs. The idea that my being co-dependent was an addiction was odd to me. Eventually, I saw the connection between addiction, co-dependency and dysfunction in relationships. Yet, I had to do the whole thing- groups, working with a sponsor, to learn a different way.

When someone showed up saying things like you say: This has torn me up, but I just can't let go, the members would day "Have you had enough unhappiness yet?

Why would they say that? Because only then is someone really motivated to change. Every behavior has a payoff- and a cost. Someone who pursues something they know makes them feel bad does so because the payoff to them is higher than the cost.

If/when, you are ready to quit, there are 12 step groups out there that can help you.
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« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2017, 08:55:01 AM »

Cat

i have considered dating other women, even attempted to talk to a few.  But my mind drifts back to her always.
I dont think either parent was BPD, although I dont think I ever got my mothers love in full measure. 
And Yes my self esteem is shot... .IDK I feel like she makes me whole and I know that is wrong
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 08:57:31 AM »

Notwendy

My therapist is the one who suggested addiction.  And Like you I find it a bit hard to believe.  I have never had any issues with any kind of substance.  Co-Dependents anonymous was suggested and I attended a couple meetings but it wasn't for me.  it was pretty much all women in abusive relationships and I felt very uncomfortable
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« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2017, 09:17:25 AM »

Notwendy

My therapist is the one who suggested addiction.  And Like you I find it a bit hard to believe.  I have never had any issues with any kind of substance.  Co-Dependents anonymous was suggested and I attended a couple meetings but it wasn't for me.  it was pretty much all women in abusive relationships and I felt very uncomfortable

OB—from the last two posts, it sounds like you don’t want to change this situation. You want to continue with your primary orientation in life being toward a woman who won’t see you and definitely will keep drawing a line to prevent things from getting real. Is that correct? That is fine, you can remain in that.

If you don’t want to remain where you are, though, just know that change is hard and painful.  It may require you to be uncomfortable, even very uncomfortable, for a good while.

Your reaction to dating others is one I absolutely identify with AND it is a good indicator of addiction. You only want this one thing. I don’t know that you can date your way out of that reaction, as it may become a self-reinforcing loop if you don’t really want to move on. But that’s where the CODA or similar work comes in.

I was every bit as addicted and stuck as you—you’re not alone! I am better now (still sad and scarred though). I only got better by choosing a path that was very very uncomfortable for me, often intensely painful; if felt for all the world like withdrawal from an addictive substance and it went on for so, so long. I say this because I think you see the discomfort as a sign you’re on the wrong path, but it isn’t. When you feel that discomfort you maybe can tell yourself “good, this is what I want, I choose this, this feeling is supposed to be here.” And keep going that direction.

What else matters to you in life apart from a love relationship? Can you double down on those things, using this break as an opportunity to concentrate there, to move in a new interesting, hard, challenging direction? I know from my own experience that you are likely experiencing aversion at any suggestion of shifting your attention, but that fades with practice. Pour other potential rewards into your life and it will pay off in a way this just doesn’t.
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Oncebitten
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 627



« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2017, 09:47:39 AM »

Patient

I know you are right.  Its the pain of trying something else that causes me to run back to her.  And its the intermittent reinforcement as Notwendy suggested.  I get to the point where I think I have had enough and start to distance myself and she does something to reign me back in so to speak.  And I hang on to that unwilling to let go.  She always says things that make me think if I try harder then this will all be better and fixed. 
I have come to the conclusion that I need to improve myself no matter what.  I am sure that I am not terribly attractive right now, as I have become needy.
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