Bullying and domestic violence: When do I involve third parties? Pt 2

[Skip]

Prayer for strength.

 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

Skip, just saw your latest reply, thanks.  I would have been inclined to soothe and it might have backfired I suppose is what you are saying.  I am not sure how to avoid being her dumping ground for negative feelings.  :)oes that imply some pushback, or simply calm deflection?  The latter seems safer but I have learned that what seems safest at the moment is not always best.

She has said that when things have blown up I am too silent.  So I am worried that if I listen too much and don't say enough she will perceive that as not caring (this is what she said before)

Radcliff

[Skip]

No push back. No deflection. Let her say you are the biggest dirtball in life. Listen, as long as she is agrees to stay calm. Let her unload all she wants. Listen with empathy. You can ask questions. You can confirm back what you heard (although if she argues about your paraphrasing, stop doing it). Let her get it out to a clam strong man who is not threatened by her expressing herself. 

Remember. The more you listen, the more she will hear herself (when she reflects back).

She might say you are not all in. The first time, just say you are all in the family is important.  The second time she says it, just let it be said.

This part sucks... .don't take it personally. She is overloaded with emotion and needs to get it out.

Just don't save her or save yourself (JADE). Just let her get it out and let all that anger and confusion and lashing out hand in the air for you both to think about. "Thanks for tellingn me. It's a lot for bothof us. Let's think about all that has been said".

[MrRight]

I reported my wife to the police a long time ago (10 years) - she was questioned for 4 hours but no charges were brought.
To be honest it was one of the biggest mistakes of my life and has followed us.

I'm not saying what you did was not correct.

I'm also a prisoner in my house, more or less - and what you have been brave enough to challenge and improve, I'm too much of a coward. I dont think I could get the better of her anyway.

[pearlsw]

Oh no! This is exactly what I expected/feared. The psychological stress of the video/other evidence is heavy man. (We can/should talk more about this another time.)

Hopefully the psychological intervention can help…but that comes with its own complications. She needs to see the limits of her abusive behaviors though and you could not stop this yourself…so don’t get down on yourself. There was no perfect way to prepare for/handle this day. It was coming sooner or later. Unavoidable.

If I can step in and advocate for your kids a bit…as someone who experienced a lot of family turmoil from age 11-16…think big and creatively here. (Not DV in my case.) Give them as much normalcy as you can…even if it means staying with relatives or friend’s families. Them seeing this dynamic between you and your wife can do a lot of damage.

Standing with you!  

[DaddyBear77]

So much has been said here and I am really, truly feeling for you and behind you 1000% here BB.

I'll tell you that about 10 years ago, I also called the police and my wife was taken in for a few hours and released. Afterwards she told me she'd never speak to me again, she'd never trust me again, and she hated me and she was sure. A few weeks later we were back to baseline.

This event may bring things to a new "normal" - whatever that might mean. When the time is right, use the calm, strong position Skip has been talking about, and find the opportunities to take things to a better place. No one here knows what opportunities those may be, or what you might see as you look. But I'm pretty sure you'll know them when you see them.

Stay strong BB. We're here for you.

~DB

[Radcliff]

Hello everyone.  I picked up my wife at the hospital this morning.  Skip's game plan was very helpful.  We are both calm and supporting each other.  She feels betrayed, but is leaning on me.  I know that the tide could turn if things go black again, so I am trying to get the relationship to a good place without being naive.  The police did not make a criminal arrest, and have not recommended that any charges be pursued.  The report has gone to the DA's office, which I'm going to contact tomorrow to try to make sure they don't press charges.  I believe the documentation of the police report will provide the protection I need and the relationship-shaping influence we need, and criminal charges would be too destructive for our family's particular situation.

For those of you who have dealt with suicide threats or have helped a spouse facing potential DV charges with you as a victim, I now have a much deeper appreciation of and respect for your experience.

Words are not sufficient to tell you how everyone's support and advice have meant to me.  Last night was a dark night, and I needed all of the positive energy and prayers you provided.  Thank you.

Radcliff

[Skip]

I believe the documentation of the police report will provide the protection I need and the relationship-shaping influence we need... .

BB, this is only the wake up call. Don't bet the ranch that this is over, no matter how compliant your wife is right now. She will go through a lot of changing emotions in the new few weeks. Support her - but don't fix it and don't soothe her - support her soothing herself.

Remember, this is the foundation up which you will be building future values/boundaries related to other issues like sleep deprivation, callas at work, etc. Don't worry about that stuff right now, but don't paint yourself into a corner, either.

There is important work to do in this time of calm.

I think it would be much better to go down to the DA with her. This is the difference between fixing it and supporting her. Most likely, the DA will lecture her, explain the following, and drop it because the police were not on site.

Prosecution of Domestic Violence Cases (In your state)
Generally, the victim is the chief witness in a domestic violence case. Due to the nature of their relationship, there is a tendency for victims to have mixed feelings about testifying against the accused. This is why state law gives the alleged victim no discretion over whether or not the charges will be filed. Once allegations have been made to the police, only the District Attorney has the discretion whether to prosecute or drop the charges.

Also, one of the best things is to follow-up and pull the brother into a meeting/conversation with your wife on how you all, as a family, can support her to bring an end to the conflict. This is the disinfecting light that is needed. You don't want to lose this opportunity. Family pulling together is a huge deterrent.

And lastly, don't disclose your support system here. It will become an issue like the video tapes.

The way you involved the police is artful. Going to them with information rather than having them come out greatly reduces the likelihood of charges being filed by the DA.  It is, however, very important that you quietly get the police reports from all the both incidents - you need this in your armamentarium of deterrents for the future.

Hope for he best to come. Prepare for the worst to come.

Strength. Your starting to build a bridge to a better place...

[pearlsw]

Hey BB, Thinking of you! Just want to remind that this is actually far from over. It is just a new phase. There will likely be more calls to the police. That rarely happens once and then never happens again. Nothing has changed about her, okay? These maladjusted ways are still her coping patterns. She does not see you as an individual, but as an extension of herself. She still operates as if she can do anything to you with no consequences. She will be merely watching for new openings and finding new strategies because in crisis this is what she does. She needs a way to learn new behaviors in order to give up these old ones. That is a long road. Wishing you the best! More when I can, I'm still away! Take care!

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Radcliff, I've been following this for awhile now. I just want to let you know that I think you are a very strong person. I can't imagine the stress and pain you're going through with all of this. *hugs*

[bananas2]

My heart goes out to you, my friend. As you know, I've been through this same situation with my BPDh - DV, police intervention, hospitalization, etc. It is frightening and overwhelming. For my r/s, it ended up being a catalyst for positive change. That may or may not happen for you. Only time will tell. In the meantime, try to remember that you did/are doing everything in your power to keep yourself, your wife, and your girls safe. You are a strong man & I'm very proud of you.

I'll just give you one bit of advice that I wish I'd been given when I was going through this (I wasn't active on this board at the time):
Stay in today. Do what you can just for today, one day at a time. Breathe, take baby steps, acknowledge every small victory, practice self-care - but do it all in today, just for today. That means no second-guessing (what's done is done), and try to keep the worry about the future to a minimum. "Regret and fear are the twin thieves that rob us of today."

You are doing great work. We are all here for you.

Wishing you peace. 

[flourdust]

Just want to remind that this is actually far from over. It is just a new phase. There will likely be more calls to the police. That rarely happens once and then never happens again.

This is what I was going to post. Others who have posted here about making police calls ... .myself included ... .talk about the "first call."

You've received some good advice about the difference between supporting her and fixing things for her. If you can use this as a catalyst to drive real change -- by getting her into therapy, for example -- then you should do so, immediately.

If you have to make a police call in the future, don't save her from the consequences of her actions.

[Radcliff]

All I can say is, wow, what an amazing team you form with all of your perspectives and advice.  Priceless.  Thank you.

I've read all the replies several times, and all resonated with me.  I will post a more detailed update when I'm able.

Radcliff

[Harley Quinn]

Hi BB,

Just dropping in to say that I've been reading your thread from the start and as you know I had DV and attempts at suicide in my r/s, so for the most part I've had a heavy chest for you.  Until I breathed more easily knowing that now things are out in the open.  I can't tell you for myself in your position what a difference that made.  Taking yourself out of that very isolated situation has created a whole new dynamic here, and take others seriously when they say that this is only the start.  Once the lid was off, the behaviour got worse in my case.  However, with your commitment and consistent approach I believe that you can get through this and on to a better future for your family.  You are extremely brave and your love for your wife is resounding.  Follow Skip's advice.  Stay strong and calm.  Build yourself up and remain consistent.  :)on't absolve her of her responsibility for her own actions.    

You've a lot of people here who have your back. 

Love and light x

[bananas2]

Hi BB   -

Can I ask what your plans are moving forward? In addition to using the tools on the forum, are you seeking professional help - family counseling, individual therapy? I'm wondering what your course of action is to help prevent a continuing pattern of crisis situations.

Please take good care of yourself during this critical time. 

[Radcliff]

Hi everyone, I thought I'd give an update.  Thanks very much for the recent replies -- I will respond to them more directly, but may not have a big block of private time until my wife goes on a trip this coming Friday.

It's been a week since the police report, and we may need to wait another week or two before a prosecuting attorney is assigned to see if they will want to file charges.  This is a very strange time. We have been having lots of talks, and it feels so great and strangely different to be in a serious talk and not worry that it will end up with my wife chasing me around the house, etc.  My wife is very shaky, and wants reassurance, but my reassurance can only go so far, since I need to stand by the report.  "Fragile truce" is probably the best description of what is happening.  She sees the current legal jeopardy as something I've brought upon our family.

So far, I've withstood a couple of waves of pressure to undermine my police report, either by recanting, sending a supplemental letter, etc.  I'm in a pretty confident place with that now.  The report will stand.  We talked about finding a defense lawyer.  She wanted me to do it, saying, "What are you going to do to fix this mess you've created?"  The support and advice I received here were helpful to me in avoiding that trap.  She found her own lawyer.

Things at home are calm, but I'm still getting periodic bouts of FOG from my wife.  She is upset that I reported instead of talking things through with her, she blamed me for disrupting the family when D16 has a college application deadline soon, etc.  I am really anxious about disrupting D16, but also a little fed up with the absurdity of my wife criticizing me for the fine points of my performance when I put up with years of abuse, avoided a DV restraining order so our family can stay together, reported at the police station instead of calling the police to our home, deliberately avoided reporting some of the most serious things, etc.  I am trying to stay in the center of the drama triangle in a weird situation where I'm constantly encountering opportunities to be the victim, rescuer, or persecutor.

Today is a calm day.  We had some quiet time alone.  My wife is distancing herself a bit, and I'm going to let her do that.  I'll make periodic attempts to connect, but am realizing that if I try too hard to connect it will put her in a power position, which gets too close to our pattern of me doing the work to repair the relationship while she holds back.

As always, I welcome your thoughts and advice.  There is no way I could have gotten to this point without you.

Radcliff

[Skip]

Sounds like you are on game, perfect.

Her reaction is to be expected. As far as projecting this on you, you don't need to waste any energy defending - you positioned her to get her lawyer and for her to deal with the DA and they will do the heavy lifting - the will set this straight - the lawyer nicely, the DA, less so.

She is going to be rocky until she soothes herself. She has lost her standard scapegoat (you) so this is a hard time for her. She doesn't know how to process this. It will take time.

[GaGrl]

On a side concern, you might want to put aside the concerns about your D16 for the moment. We are encouraging our grandaughter, 16, to consider a gap year. This might be a real alternative for your daughter as she tries to grab and herself during an unstable family period.

[MrRight]

BB you are going through a very similar scenario to what happened to me 9 years ago.

In my case I left with our S5 - reported my W to the P for domestic violence etc. Went to live with my relations.

She was arrested and charged - denied everything. The P would need my testimony in court to get a conviction.

With no plan in place - and stuck with my relatives - deprived of the family home - I cracked and went back to her. From that moment on she was well in charge. Behaved herself to a degree while charges were hanging over her - pressured me to retract my statement - I refused to do this as I thought it might end up with me being charged for wasting police time. Like you I was told I had to clear up the mess I had made - I had betrayed the family etc. To this day she throws it in my face. Had I known I was going to go back to her I never would have done it.

So the charges were dropped when the P realised we had "reconciled"

In a way you are in a no win scenario - if they charge - you will be expected to give evidence - and this will be destructive in your family as she will always see you as a traitor - and she may call you a traitor and throw it in your face whenever she can if they don't charge - in this case she may feel she has scored a victory - if the police wont charge - it may be a vindication - she could become worse not better. Mine had a quiet period - but soon went back to normal and worse - even when we had social services visiting us - nothing would deter her.

The thinking on this board seems to be that police action can be used successfully to make her accountable for her behaviour. Perhaps it works in some cases but it is a very risky strategy. I would call it a strategy of last resort - it was for me - and due to my lack of a plan, poor financial situation and general weakness of character - I failed. I hope it works out in your case.

[Skip]

The thinking on this board seems to be that police action can be used successfully to make her accountable for her behaviour. Perhaps it works in some cases but it is a very risky strategy. I would call it a strategy of last resort - it was for me - and due to my lack of a plan, poor financial situation and general weakness of character - I failed.

MrRight, I might suggest that yours is a lesson about commitment and plan/means. Being financially trapped changes the available options. Most domestic abuse agencies recognize this as a common problem and this is why they do not encourage people to leave without a sustainable plan. They know that it is not "the leaving", its not the police, its not the dv agency that solves domestic abuse, its the commitment and planning of the abused.

The police are a useful tool, as our relatives, as our CPS... .they are not the answer, though.

Skip

PS: MrRight amd Radcliff are in different countries with significantly different laws.


This thread is continued in the following thread:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=316170.0;all