mom and spending/retirement

[clover]

Hello all - am wondering if any of you have experience with an again/soon-to-be retiring BPD parent.

My mother is retired from her career profession, but still works. She receives a pension and a salary. I do not know exactly how much she makes - she refuses to tell me, though I did not and would not ask, because I will not tell her how much my husband makes. I do know, from comments that she's made, about the range of her salary and that she has a great income for the city in which she lives, and only having herself to look after.

My mom has a spending problem. It's always been there, even when I was a kid, and as she has made more money, she has increased her spending. It's completely up to her what she spends - however, she blames her financial state on ME. She tells anyone that will listen that she doesn't have any money because she spent it educating me and sacrificing everything for me. She also has recently started being annoyed with me that she does not get the child tax credit. I am 30 and have a child of my own. She acts as if she is personally victimized because I grew up, and like me getting the tax credit (which I never bring up, because I don't talk about my finances) is somehow taking it from her.

She has been angry with me for several years because she thinks that I am wealthy. My husband's family is wealthy; we are not. We have been together for 10 years, and in that time we have lived below the poverty line and struggled to make ends meet. Not that it should matter, but for context, we are now middle-upper middle class and I'm a stay at home mom. As we have done better in life (bought a home, had a child), she has gotten more angry. We are not ostentatious and we don't talk about money, ours or anyone else, but she is convinced (and tells other people) that we have all this money. And she treats me like I left her to go off with a rich family and am not letting her benefit.

She is spending herself into a hole. She asked me to sign up for credit monitoring to help her figure out how to refinance her bills a few years ago, and I still get emails. I rarely check, but just did recently as she has been talking about retirement and hinting that she does not want to live in a retirement home. She has been taking out loans and credit cards every 6-ish months for 3 years, maxing them out, and not paying them off. She pays the minimum and moves on to another loan or card. She buys luxury items (car, clothes, accessories) and has no equity in our family home that she should be close to owning. She has recently started asking me for money for little things, like using my credit card to buy clothes, and I have said no.

She is not honest about her financial state or how her spending and borrowing will affect her when she no longer has a salary. Everything is just my fault. The last time I saw her, she went on a rant (directed at me, but she was talking to someone else, as she tends to do) about how she is paying X amount for student loans every month, which I know is a lie because I have seen the info.

Her comments about retirement have started to amp up again. She wants to be our children's nanny and move in with us, and since I've said no, she's just started angrily saying how she doesn't want to live in a retirement home (unprovoked, as I do not bring up retirement conversations). I know that she is spending herself into a hole thinking that I will bail her out (because I have the money to and because I owe her - neither things are true). I really, truly, think that (because of comments she has made in the past) she is banking on my DH's parents dying and us using his inheritance to finance her lifestyle.

There is NO WAY IN HELL that she is living with me when she retires. I will not allow her to come into my space and torture myself, my husband, and my children. She is mentally and emotionally unstable and already tries to insert herself into my life and my marriage. I am totally open to helping her pay for in-home care or a nice retirement community, and for paying off the original amount of her portion of my student loans, but I am not open to bailing her out for her shopping addiction. I would never want her to be in a horrible nursing home, regardless of the state of our relationship, so I wouldn't just leave her high and dry. But I know that I cannot give her exactly what she wants.

Is this something that I should have a conversation with her about? Her comments make it pretty obvious to me that we are her retirement plan, but this is not only impossible from an emotional standpoint, it isn't from a financial one either. I have 1 child and another arriving soon, and my responsibilities are to them. Is this something I should address in advance so that she knows not to expect anything, or is it better to leave that conversation until the time that she decides she wants to stop working? Either way, she will blame me and she will not change her spending behavior, but I'm not allowing her choices to negatively affect me and my family.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Clover! 

I don't think I've had the chance to welcome you yet, so a big welcome from me and from our online family!    It's so nice to have you join us and to share your concerns with us. This is a wonderful site where you can read a lot of information plus learn from others who are going through or have gone through similar issues to yours. You will learn, probably every time you read, something new or something that will resonate with you in your own experience. There is a great list to the right hand side of our board that also offers a lot of helpful information. ----->> >>

Thank you for being so open and sharing about your concerns with your BPDm. It sounds like you definitely have a lot to deal with between having your own young family in addition to your M. So often we hope they'll change, and I think you understand that she will not. But there are the concerns as to how to interact with her, especially where money is concerned.

In the DSM5, one of the criteria for being diagnosed with BPD is the following:
"Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex,substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)."

Individuals with borderline personality disorder display impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (Criterion 4). They may gamble, spend money irresponsibly, binge eat, abuse substances, engage in unsafe sex, or drive recklessly.

Does this sound like your M? My uBPDm was spending down her money through gambling before she died. I don't even know if she knew how little she had left. When she passed away, there was no life insurance policy, and we had to scramble to come up with money to cover her funeral expenses, even with the help of our step-dad. So often she also thought people were better off than her, or resented them for 'appearing' to have more money because it made them seem better than her. In the end she was only projecting her own insecurities onto others, and it could be quite hurtful, especially if it touched us, her children. That was such a sad thing, to have her believe things that weren't true of us. She soothed herself with this type of behavior, even though it really was very unhealthy. She gave away far more money to my siblings to 'help' them than she ever shared with me. I'm just as glad because there were no strings attached that way for me.

Back to your question:

Is this something that I should have a conversation with her about? Her comments make it pretty obvious to me that we are her retirement plan, but this is not only impossible from an emotional standpoint, it isn't from a financial one either.

What would be the purpose of talking with her if you chose to do so? Do you hope for her to understand? Unfortunately for those of us left to deal with a pwBPD, we often fail to realize we cannot change the beliefs they have. I would encourage you to also seek the help of a T if you are able to do so, in order to help you walk through this situation because it won't be easily swept under the rug.

You are on the right track to be thinking ahead and asking questions of others who understand.  When dealing with a pwBPD, it is a tough journey that not many people understand unless you've been there.

 
Wools

[Turkish]

My mother gave me about $1000/yr to help with my school from 1989-1992, yet claimed me add a dependent. When she kept asking me why I couldn't get financial aid,  I told her what Rhett told me: "your mother claims you as a dependent." Needless to say,  I made up for it by working around 20 hrs/and about 40/wk half the summers after taking summer classes to graduate sooner. 

Do you think anyone else buys into her story?

Whether or not,  her narrative is off the wall.  I enabled my mother with cash for years due to her spending habits.  Save the mortgage.  Save the utilities from being turned off. Gifted her my 4x4 truck which she ruined (multiple repairable accidents, blew the engine... .). Gifted her money to save her two peoperties from being auctioned (about $1400/year, but she let it go for years until she got the auction notices).

I could have saved all of this in the end by writing a check.  However,  I also found out later that she blew through $20,000 from two friends a few years after I sent her $5000 to save one property from foreclosure, in-between my $900 here and $1000 there,  the truck, and $1000 to get its engine rebuilt.

At a certain point,  enough is enough!

You are certainly not responsible for her financial state,  I hope you know that.  Not only is she an adult,  but she's been an adult for what,  like 20 more years than you have been? I wouldn't suggest quoting me to her.  That probably wouldn't go over well 

I believe in honoring parents, I do.  However,  you are rightly focusing on your primary family now,  especially as the mother of two young ones. 

It's sad that your mother eschews outside help,  because there are so many recources to help her.  It is,  however,  up to her to reach out instead of fleeing like a Waif.

[Notwendy]

This was one of my concerns when my father was ill. My mother's spending got our family in debt when I was a teen. It was a strange situation- Mom had whatever she wanted- designer clothing, shoes, spa days and my father would yell at me if I asked him for money to buy a dress for a school dance. I learned not to ask. I started working as soon as I was old enough to get a job and helped to pay for my college expenses. My father made a decent living- yet we had this strange arrangement of rich and struggling all under one roof. Mom in designer clothing, dad shopping for his things in a discount store.

When my father got ill, I was concerned that my mother would mismanage the finances. I offered to help and my mother hit the roof, saying I was forcing her to hand over her money and garbage like that, so I backed off. I will say my motive was not entirely altruistic- I didn't want any of the money, but I wanted her to have enough to live on so I didn't face the dilemma of what to do if she didn't.

I realized though- it is her money to do what she wants with it. I have no control over that. And in the real world if you spend all your money, there are consequences to that- consequences my mother has not ever had to face as when she did spend money, my father just put more in the bank.

He left everything to her and I have no idea what she is doing with it. She trusts a stranger more than her own family. People have taken advantage of her. But there is nothing I can do about it.

Thankfully she has no interest in baby care, so she didn't want to babysit the kids when they were little. Where she did show interest in them was when they were older and potentially useful to her. She wanted them to be her emotional caretakers and do things for her- like run errands. Basically, she wanted them as her servants, like she had her own children do for her.

She's also mentioned wanting to move closer to me. Yet, since I have had more boundaries with her, she has backed off- at least for now. My H and I agree that she is not ever moving in with us. I don't think I could handle this emotionally.

One thing that helps me when dealing with my mother is to think of my children. You may have a comfortable home and are able to afford things,  but you also have plans for your money. You will want a college fund for your children. You may be paying for things like weddings, and also there is your retirement. When I think of these things, I realize that I don't want to be giving my children's education to my mother. I know I would do something if she were homeless or couldn't buy food, but I can't let her spend my children's college fund.