Dealing with renewed contact after 7 years NC

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi,

A few weeks ago I picked up the phone and on the end was my ex of 13 years who I haven't spoken to for pretty much 7 years.

The conversation resulted in a follow up email which included this:

recently I have come to understand the unbearable shortness of life and I really couldn’t bear the thought of not ever talking to you or hearing your voice again – because when all the dust has settled, the years we spent are still very meaningful to me…... everybody knows that and I wouldn’t want you to be in any doubt. To try and say how much I’ve missed you over the years would just sound like another cliché so whatever you decide, I will always think of you as somebody extra special in my life and would want nothing but the very best for you.  I wish you all the joy and happiness it is possible to wish you and will always remember you as the best friend I lost.…and miss the most

I replied - kept it short and thanked him for his words (although being deliberately charmed comes to mind) wished him well etc too.  Within it I mentioned I hoped he was happy, and then received this:

Not sure how one goes about ‘being happy’. Nowadays, I find happiness a slippery and elusive concept – ‘happiness’ seems down my list of feasible achievements but hey! I appreciate the sentiments and I promise I will keep trying. I suppose my outlook changed when you pulled my pants down in front of the class and laughed at me! (I’m fond of metaphors too)  I’m still hoping that “someone different will come into my life…... another fine edition of you” (Bryan Ferry)….there you go….you got me singing!

The comment in bold has really annoyed me TBH... .I didn't want to have to go back to NC, in a way I was glad he broke the ice but I have found that , very quickly, they can annoy you...

Is there a good way that I can try and get some of my feelings across e.g. if his metaphor about the pants means he was made a fool of, then I feel he was the one who did that to me... .or have I just got to listen (or cut him  off again) to all HIS feelings about things

One of the things I have found most difficult is how actively and intently his manipulation is (BPD/NPD?)

Thanks all

[sm15000]

Hi,

A few weeks ago I picked up the phone and on the end was my ex of 13 years who I haven't spoken to for pretty much 7 years.

The conversation resulted in a follow up email which included this:

recently I have come to understand the unbearable shortness of life and I really couldn’t bear the thought of not ever talking to you or hearing your voice again – because when all the dust has settled, the years we spent are still very meaningful to me…... everybody knows that and I wouldn’t want you to be in any doubt. To try and say how much I’ve missed you over the years would just sound like another cliché so whatever you decide, I will always think of you as somebody extra special in my life and would want nothing but the very best for you.  I wish you all the joy and happiness it is possible to wish you and will always remember you as the best friend I lost.…and miss the most

I replied - kept it short and thanked him for his words (although being deliberately charmed comes to mind) wished him well etc too.  Within it I mentioned I hoped he was happy, and then received this:

Not sure how one goes about ‘being happy’. Nowadays, I find happiness a slippery and elusive concept – ‘happiness’ seems down my list of feasible achievements but hey! I appreciate the sentiments and I promise I will keep trying. I suppose my outlook changed when you pulled my pants down in front of the class and laughed at me! (I’m fond of metaphors too)  I’m still hoping that “someone different will come into my life…... another fine edition of you” (Bryan Ferry)….there you go….you got me singing!

The comment in bold has really annoyed me TBH... .I didn't want to have to go back to NC, in a way I was glad he broke the ice but I have found that , very quickly, they can annoy you...

Is there a good way that I can try and get some of my feelings across e.g. if his metaphor about the pants means he was made a fool of, then I feel he was the one who did that to me... .or have I just got to listen (or cut him  off again) to all HIS feelings about things

One of the things I have found most difficult is how actively and intently his manipulation is (BPD/NPD?)

Thanks all

[once removed]

is there a need to respond to anything he communicated, directly?

as i read it, its part rant, part bait; hes just talking. nothing to respond to, and if you engage the part that got on your nerves, its just rehashing the past.

i dont think you need to cut him off, i dont think you need to listen, i just dont think this particular communication merits or requires a response.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey sm15000, I am uncertain why you want to dip your toe back into the toxic BPD waters.  You are already getting drawn into an unhealthy exchange about pulling down his pants, which seems juvenile.  You don't need to explain yourself.  My suggestion: move on.

LuckyJim

[g2outfitter]

I think this is a pretty good example of how pwBPD can have rational thoughts and genuine feelings but they are fleeting.  It seems as though the ex had an epiphany of some sort (or perhaps more likely, his most recent or current relationship is crashing) so he has a brief thought of how good a past relationship was... .even if it was 13 years ago.  So he went fishing.  However, it also is a good example of the saying "people never change".  As the conversation progressed, he couldn't help but revert to his core self.  He went from "I miss you" to "I miss you, but it was your fault that I had to leave" in a matter of minutes.

Same exact thing happened to me with my exBPDgf during my first recycle.  She cheated on me, then wanted me back.  During our first conversation of the recycle, she started out saying how sorry she was for doing what she did then ten minutes later actually got mad at me for the whole ordeal.  After a while I started to wonder exactly who cheated on who, .  As usual, my head was spinning.

It's been seven years... .don't poke the bear.  I know it's tempting but it will not turn out as you would hope.  You still won't be vindicated.  Just let it be and accept that sadly, he forever will be who he is.

[patientandclear]

sm15000 ... .he has confused feelings, feels bad, doesn't understand why it went as it did, wishes it hadn't, feels more comfortable in victim mode than taking responsibility, and doesn't have the capacity to fix it with you but would like a do over with someone who's just like you but with whom things didn't already get so screwed up. He knows he's the cause ("the best friend I lost" but he doesn't appreciate that you allowed that to affect you (you humiliated him in some way).

Sigh. This is a reasonably good encapsulation of why he is so bad at relationships. He doesn't have a good understanding of how his own feelings work and as a consequence, he loses connections of great value. My ex feels the same and does the same.

You don't have to do anything about this. You will not be able to correct his feelings. If there is some truth you need to speak TO HIM (as opposed to, to yourself or others) about all this for some existential reason, you can, but it is unlikely to have a concrete constructive impact in any linear way.

He's a mess with relationships. He destroyed yours. You couldn't contort yourself enough to make that OK and that causes him to feel bad. It's true. It is what it is.

The impulse to control painful things by taking action is strong, but this is just going to be painful. There likely isn't anything to "do."

Have you had further discussions?

[heartandwhole]

Hi sm15000,

Is there a good way that I can try and get some of my feelings across e.g. if his metaphor about the pants means he was made a fool of, then I feel he was the one who did that to me... .or have I just got to listen (or cut him  off again) to all HIS feelings about things

I'm in the camp that you don't have to do anything, and that anything you "try" to do will open a can o worms that you may just want to keep the lid on.  

If it were me, I'd ignore the subtle jab and keep things light. I wouldn't try to get my feelings across—just wouldn't go there. But I understand if you want to, or need to. In that case, I recommend using the communication tools like S.E.T., and avoid JADEing. Let the responsibility for processing and soothing his feelings rest squarely on his shoulders... .

This communication reminds me of ones I've had with pwBPD. Feelings seemed to rush in and someone from his past was suddenly the ONE that could make everything all right. It happened during our relationship with former girlfriends, and it has happened since our breakup, toward me (he's married now). In my case, I don't take the words to heart. I don't "believe" them. It sounds cynical, but it actually allows me to feel compassion for him and myself, and respond in a warm way, without opening any cans.  

What do you want to do?

heartandwhole

[SuperJew82]

Classic fishing email because his current relationship is going belly-up. I'm no stranger to these. They usually follow a certain pattern of thoughtfulness then they provoke an emotional response from you.

It makes you want to respond back, as that is how it was designed.

In my opinion, there is no need for you to go down that rabbit hole.


-sj

[babyducks]

My Ex had the ability to say the most innocuous sounding things,  on the surface they didn't sound ~so~ very bad.    and yet they would often burrow under my skin like a thorn I couldn't get out.

I think the thing that bothered me then, and still sometimes now, is how some of those innocuous sounding statements felt like an attempt to overwrite my reality.   I didn't like it.   I wanted to defend my reality.

which never really worked all that well because my Ex processes the information of life very differently than I do.   Not just about me.   But about all things she experiences.

If I absolutely had to say something,  I would say my truth but keep it mild.   No JADE, and no openings for further discussion.   

Something like "boy you and I really did have very different experiences of our relationship huh,  that's probably why we aren't together anymore."  If I am a little cranky it's more like "huh, that's an interesting perspective, I don't see it that way at all".  ba-dah-bing ba-dah-boom moving on.

SuperJew82     raises an interesting point.

They usually follow a certain pattern of thoughtfulness then they provoke an emotional response from you.

I've found that I no longer want to be at the same emotional intensity level as my EX, while the up times are like crack cocaine, the down times are misery and I don't want to pay that price anymore.   

If I am being provoked into an emotional response that's  danger  time for me.    If I've been triggered into whatever emotion, it's my job to resolve that emotion and experience has taught me I am not going to resolve that with my EX.   Sadly my EX is not a safe person for me to discuss my emotions with.  Which doesn't mean I am going to let her run all over my perspective.   It's a fine line.

[sm15000]

Thank you all for replying... .I must admit the contact has shocked me a bit - I'd prepared myself in the past for this possibility but after 7 years I pretty much thought I was off the radar

It seems as though the ex had an epiphany of some sort (or perhaps more likely, his most recent or current relationship is crashing) so he has a brief thought of how good a past relationship was... .even if it was 13 years ago.  So he went fishing.  However, it also is a good example of the saying "people never change".  As the conversation progressed, he couldn't help but revert to his core self.  He went from "I miss you" to "I miss you, but it was your fault that I had to leave" in a matter of minutes

I think this is true... .he mentioned on the phone that he'd had some sort of 'health' issue that turned out to be OK (he's 59)... .don't know if it's this or the r/s or both.  Plus, on the phone he told me that he can't stand his job, he's a lecturer in an University - they've been through a big restructure and he's in a different campus teaching what, by the sound of it, he considers to be unworthy of himself.  His job, I believe, was a big part of his narcissistic supply - which doesn't sound like he's getting now, described himself as a "broken man"

he has confused feelings, feels bad, doesn't understand why it went as it did, wishes it hadn't, feels more comfortable in victim mode than taking responsibility, and doesn't have the capacity to fix it with you but would like a do over with someone who's just like you but with whom things didn't already get so screwed up. He knows he's the cause ("the best friend I lost" but he doesn't appreciate that you allowed that to affect you (you humiliated him in some way)

Hello, Patient and Clear... .hope you are well? I think you've pretty much summed it up, yes    although I have no idea why he's thinking I humiliated him... .unless it was just I dared to end the r/s

In my case, I don't take the words to heart. I don't "believe" them. It sounds cynical, but it actually allows me to feel compassion for him and myself, and respond in a warm way, without opening any cans.   smiley What do you want to do?

You are totally right... .no, it's not cynical at all - I know there is some truth in what he is saying but in a 'fantasy' type way... .what do I want to do?  I don't know really... .ideally, I'd like to be able to keep the door open for communication now - I don't want to have to enforce NC - I just want to manage any interactions we have.  Although it's ultimately his need driving the re-engagement, I think it was pretty brave to pick up the phone... .he'll never take full responsibility but I think that is the best he can do, and I feel I have to acknowledge that.

Classic fishing email because his current relationship is going belly-up. I'm no stranger to these. They usually follow a certain pattern of thoughtfulness then they provoke an emotional response from you

Yes, I know.  As my response to his very 'gushing' first email was pretty short and to the point - although I thanked him for his words, I didn't reflect those feelings back (even though I feel them!) - I'm not sure if it's annoyed him and triggered the spiteful 'pants' metaphor

Have you had further discussions?

No, we haven't... .although he left the door open in his last email asking that if I had any past photos of holidays to send them on 'for the memories' as he's lost copies.

Let the responsibility for processing and soothing his feelings rest squarely on his shoulders

This is what I intend to do, I don't want that resposibility

It's been seven years... .don't poke the bear.  I know it's tempting but it will not turn out as you would hope.  You still won't be vindicated.  Just let it be and accept that sadly, he forever will be who he is.

I'm not sure I feel like responding ATM but to not is ignoring... .and that doesn't feel right.  

[Lucky Jim]

I'm not sure I feel like responding ATM but to not is ignoring... .and that doesn't feel right. 

Hey sm, Just because your Ex replied to your message doesn't mean that you "owe" him any particular response.  Your brief exchange immediately opened the door to an attempt to shift responsibility for the b/u to you.  I'm with g2outfitter: don't poke the bear or pull the tiger's tail.  Now is a good time to hit the Pause Button.

LJ

[sm15000]

Hey sm, Just because your Ex replied to your message doesn't mean that you "owe" him any particular response.  Your brief exchange immediately opened the door to an attempt to shift responsibility for the b/u to you.  I'm with g2outfitter: don't poke the bear or pull the tiger's tail.  Now is a good time to hit the Pause Button.

Thanks LJ.
I know I don't owe him anything... .and I can see the pattern in the response that people have mentioned.  I will sit with it for a while... .the pause button is most probably the best option!

[lovenature]

ANY contact shows them an attachment is still available, best to not be another "orbiter".
Some people have gone over 10 years without hearing a word and then got sucked back in by responding. Remember the cycle ALWAYS repeats.