Why do I want to be friends with her?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I really struggle to understand why I feel that in the future she is someone I'd want to get in touch with. All she has done since the break up is hurt me emotionally and psychologically. I wonder if anyone has felt the same about their ex or can perhaps share some words of wisdom regarding this. It's really bothering me.

[clvrnn]

I really struggle to understand why I feel that in the future she is someone I'd want to get in touch with. All she has done since the break up is hurt me emotionally and psychologically. I wonder if anyone has felt the same about their ex or can perhaps share some words of wisdom regarding this. It's really bothering me.

[once removed]

I really struggle to understand why I feel that in the future she is someone I'd want to get in touch with.

is it possible you dont like the idea of "finality"/the idea of never speaking to her again?

[clvrnn]

is it possible you dont like the idea of "finality"/the idea of never speaking to her again?

Yes. It's exactly that. It makes me feel really upset.

[once removed]

i get that completely. its one of the things i always had the hardest time with, when it came to breakups.

id speak to this in two different ways:

1. i think getting to a place where you would be comfortable, or at least, not threatened by contact, is something to strive for. i can tell you that if my ex and i were to speak, it would not be an emotional thing for me, though we went our separate ways, and i think its best that it stays that way.

2. this may have to do with your own fears of abandonment; at least that was/is the case for me. its partly why ive never been able to break up with anyone.

some random thoughts and things that have worked for me:

1. theres not really any such thing as this kind of finality. assuming you arent blocked, you can technically contact her at any time, but intellectually you know that right now it would not be a good idea. i feared the same thing with my ex, and that is what i was told. i think that it is something of a crutch, but its also reality, and it helped.

2. remember you have had other loved ones in your life that are no longer in it, and that probably goes all the way back to elementary school. you have lived through it before. its a sad reality in life ive had to learn to live with. in an ideal world we could keep ourselves surrounded with everyone weve ever cared for. losing someone hurts, but its a difficult, painful reality we must learn to live with. having learned to live with it, im stronger when im faced with it today. remember, you may feel this way today, it doesnt mean you will forever.

3. the tricky thing is that you may feel this way because you havent let go, and you may not have let go because you fear doing so, and that may actually have very little to do with her. its funny, once upon a time, i found the phrase "letting go" to be triggering. but i did let go, and found its nothing to be afraid of. at the same time, this is where you are (fearful of finality) and thats okay. whats important is being mindful and self aware about it, and where you are, which brings me to

4. practicing wisemind (https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind). i have found this to be a great tool to better understand my fears, what drives them, explore the idea of whether my fear is unfounded, or perhaps what might happen if they came true, and remove the power that they have over me.

if you can break through this fear, it can transform your life.

[Lost-love-mind]

Once removed
Here I am again.
Yes, I can't let go.
Fear of abandonment.
I once thought of her as my best friend. She blocked me and went NC.
I miss talking to her
I'm going to talk about your strategy with my local sponsor here in town who's an MSW that it's been helping me

[vanx]

clvrnn,

I just wanted to let you know I struggle with something similar. It's not every day exactly, but I often find myself having to resist temptation to contact her. She is the one who recently suggested opening the doors to a friendship.

I know one major hook for me is the thought that we shared a special bond, and a friendship is more special in many ways than a romance anyhow. In reality, when we do interact, a lot of the problems in communication, respect, and balance are still at play like they were when we dated. Also like when we dated, I believe the two of us have different ideas of what we mean when we say friendship, or in other words, I don't feel like her behaviors reflect that she considers me a friend.

I still hold on to a hope that someday we could be friends, because that would also mean that the painful aspects of her mental illness as well as mine have lifted, and we can just be kind to each other. It would be nice, but it's too painful to hold onto false hope, so I have to let it go.

Sorry to go on about me--I hope that maybe you could relate to something in there. Sometimes I think it is the more difficult path that is more important and hopefully more rewarding.

[Seenowayout]

clvrnn -- I can relate.  I'm done, six months NC, but there's a piece that holds out hope --  to at least be friends, to run into her at a restaurant, to have a brief conversation.  I actually had a dream about her last night.  Really sucks.

What no one understands, but what I said over and over, is it is like my best friend died.  I went from being with her and talking to her all day long, every day, for two years, sharing the most intimate thoughts and hopes -- to suddenly and completely being erased and her not wanting anything to do with me whatsoever -- and in fact threatening me with all kinds of physical and emotional harm if I did continue to try to talk to her.  Where did she go?  How did she do it?  Why was it even possible for her to do it.

But my strength comes from that pain too.  Did my best friend die or did she actually kill me?  Did she have any right to make me disappear like that?  After all I did for her?  How could an emotionally healthy person even do that?  Was she really a best friend all that time?  Was it real at all?

No, I guess not.  And why would I want to be friends with someone like that anyway?  Who could kill me like that and move on?  Who would kill anyone like that and simply move on?

Why would YOU want to be friends with someone like yours, CVLNN?  Why would anyone?

[chillamom]

clvrnn, I struggle with exactly the same thing. I've been broken up with the diagnosed exBPD/NPD for a while, but have never gone NC because he keeps begging me for friendship and I apparently can't say no.  I have no idea why his brand of friendship is important to me because there is really nothing friendly about it.  I echo the others on here who note that NC triggers our own abandonment fears, and at think at some level it's kinda nice to see that we are "indispensable" to another (of course that's not true, but it's flattering and makes us feel important).

I recently saw my ex in person for the first time in months, and that was a mistake, because of course neither of us are anywhere close to. being detached, and I wish I had the strength to be NC so my heart could learn it needs to give the heck up.  In another thread, patientandclear pointed out to me that a lot of the discomfort I feel at the thought of not contacting him is really just something that I will likely need to learn to tolerate.  She pointed out that the "distress tolerance" skills that are taught in DBT can be useful to us as well, and those skills are ones that I have decided to learn more about and practice.

I have a feeling that looking at distress tolerance may be something helpful for you as well.  The pain of losing so much wrapped up in another person is poignant and understandable for us all….unfortunately it may just be something that we have to live with.  I need to accept that I may live with it for the rest of my life and have to find a way to manage it and NOT run back to a relationship that I know would just hurt even worse all over again.

This trauma bond the so many talk about is real and damn hard to deal with.

[Elmurr]

Seenowayout - You and I are in similar situations, both 6 months out, both with someone for a long time 2/3 years. I too sometimes hope to bump into her. I hope that one day she'll send me a message in which she owns her part. Just some words to tell me that it meant something, anything. But I hold up little hope.

I too had a dream about her last week, not a nice one, it involved a railway bridge and a fall.

My strength comes from the pain too.

I have no interest at all in contacting her, unless she contacts me apologising first. I responded to a nasty message of hers last week simply telling her to move on; that's where Im at. I did it from a email I don't use, and I will not check to see if she has replied.

The idea of being friends with this woman is so incomprehensible now. The HELL I've gone through because of her. Why on earth would I? Why on earth would you?

As Once Remove touches on, I think we all seem to be nostalgic guys, which keeps us clinging on to something just because we can't face absolute finality when we don't want it. It's a hard life lesson, that's for sure.

[enlighten me]

Ive thought about this a lot for myself.

I don't want to be with my ex but have wanted some kind of relationship. I later realised its not that at all. Its that I wanted her to still want me so that I am not worthless in her eyes.

After realising this I thought why does her opinion count? Is it because she's popular? Is it because I value her opinion and if so why?

I finally realised I don't care what she thinks, I'm happy without her, her opinions don't matter as she's not a trustworthy person so why would I want to listen to her, her lifes not exciting and its not a life I want to be involved with.

A little honesty with yourself and you can work it out.

[Skip]

I don't want to be with my ex but have wanted some kind of relationship. I later realised its not that at all. Its that I wanted her to still want me so that I am not worthless in her eyes.

Insightful.

[Lost-love-mind]

I finally realised I don't care what she thinks, I'm happy without her, her opinions don't matter as she's not a trustworthy person so why would I want to listen to her, her lifes not exciting and its not a life I want to be involved with.

Thank you. Got me thinking.

My exBPD lives like a hermit. Definitely not an active lifestyle. Never wanted to go to trendy restaurants. Paranoid about her foreign neighbors to level of bigotry.

More psychosomatic. Believes WiFi electromagnetic rays give her headaches (possible ). Discusses needs for pain pills
 
I could go on and on for describing an alternative lifestyle that many would consider antisocial.
 Now here is a real good reason for not wanting to go back to her- she doesn't watch sports. I missed a major playoff run last spring for my local hockey team.

[Elmurr]

I think there is really only one question that you need to ask yourself when deciding on whether you want to seek to continue to have this person in your life, and that is:

Does having this person in my life improve it, or worsen it?

As much as our emotions might be trying to convince us otherwise, I do feel that by the time you’re on this forum seeking help, the logical answer to that question is obvious.

[Lostinanother]

Does having this person in my life improve it, or worsen it?

That’s truly right!
I think we all see that when we were with this person we were not mentally healthy, physically healthy or even social healthy.

[Turkish]

My T offered me his insight a few years ago on his definition of a friend. 

"A friend is someone to whom you'd pull out your heart,  show it to them and ask,  'tell me what you think?'"

I interpreted this as being comfortable with being vulnerable with someone I'd deem a friend. 

[once removed]

Does having this person in my life improve it, or worsen it?

this is an important question, but its a bit black and white if youre trying to determine whether or not to be friends with someone, especially an ex; our emotional attachment and expectations are part of the equation too.  

i dated a gal in high school who had started out as my friend. was my first deep relationship. she hurt me really badly. cheated, lied, strung me along, didnt even let me know we were over, just started avoiding me and i found out she was in a new relationship. and when i found out, she went on a smear campaign - quite literally posting 'fliers' she made about me on the walls of the school.

today its all water under the bridge. we chat, i dunno, once a week, once every two weeks. does she improve or add to my life? not really. we chat about books, video games, sometimes mental health, sometimes politics. i do this with other people so it wouldnt leave some void in my life if we stopped speaking tomorrow. but i enjoy our conversation and like her as a person and i wouldnt change anything.

and thats really the point. there is no emotional attachment, no expectations. the hurt was processed, grieved, forgiven, forgotten. we started a completely new and different kind of relationship, and it is what it is. because of this, neither do i have "walls" with her, nor is she capable of emotionally hurting me.  

and i think in order to be friends with an ex, thats the kind of place one should operate in (to greater or lesser degrees... .im sure plenty of people are closer to their ex than i am to mine). its a different place than wanting to be friends because youre having difficulty with the idea of never speaking to them again - that may be unresolved grief, it might be codependency, and trying to develop/maintain a friendship in that scenario is really tricky, and can get messy very quickly.

improve vs worsen doesnt entirely depend on the other person and friends come in different "shapes and sizes". ive told this story a few times, but one of my best friends used to make for terrible emotional support. try to be vulnerable with him and hed always say the wrong thing. it really angered me. and then i let go of expecting that out of him and just enjoyed the things about our friendship that i enjoyed.

lastly:

I think we all see that when we were with this person we were not mentally healthy, physically healthy or even social healthy.

a lot of us felt pretty on top of the world, too, and thats one of the reasons why we struggled during the relationship and after.

[Elmurr]

I agree with you entirely, Once Removed. It is black and white, and in some cases, that may be exactly what is needed. Our self esteem takes an enormous hit after a break up like this, and as a result we often find ourselves second guessing ourselves and floating around in the grey area in between, not knowing what is right and what is wrong. Occasionally we'll have a moment of absolute clarity and declare that we are better off without this person, only to find an hour later that we are once again questioning that decision and floating uncertainly through the grey again.

It is not an easy question to answer. There a hundred smaller questions that need to be answered to answer that one question. But maybe, if you can answer that question with certainty, then you will find the clarity you need to finally stop floating around in the uncertain, self-doubting world of the grey. Maybe you need to be a bit borderline to break free from the borderline.

[once removed]

Maybe you need to be a bit borderline to break free from the borderline.

im not sure about that  . splitting is a maladaptive coping mechanism. ideally, we want to be more mature after the breakup, and going forward, than we were during the relationship.

Occasionally we'll have a moment of absolute clarity and declare that we are better off without this person, only to find an hour later that we are once again questioning that decision and floating uncertainly through the grey again.

this is splitting. at a surface level it is "a bit borderline". i think the answer is learning to live with these things, not trying to convince ourselves of one or the other; i think its less about declaring ourselves "better off" but reaching acceptance that the relationship is over. my relationship ended very badly, and yet i still missed my ex and i loved her. reconciling the two was no easy task. no amount of telling myself i was "better off" (not for lack of trying) ever helped.

where do i go when im feeling this uncertainty, when im experiencing strong conflicting feelings and beliefs? right here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

[Elmurr]

I guess it’s dependent on the circumstances and the individual. Somethings should obviously not be rekindled no matter what.

I don’t think deciding for certain about what your own position is regarding something is splitting. I think it’s believing in yourself and your own perception of things, what is right and what is wrong, and having the self belief to stand by your own outlook. You aren’t saying “I hate this person” or “I love this person”. You’re saying, “I know that my life is better without this person in it” for whatever your reasons are. That’s hard to do, and standing by your own judgment is a sign of self esteem and a sign that you are regaining your power over yourself and your life following an experience which has taken much of that away. In many ways that is mindfulness as you are saying “I have taken stock of my own feelings, I understand them, I have done the work needed and I now know what I stand for despite factors which try to sway me otherwise”. 

[once removed]

standing by your own judgment is a sign of self esteem

... .
 
In many ways that is mindfulness as you are saying “I have taken stock of my own feelings, I understand them, I have done the work needed and I now know what I stand for despite factors which try to sway me otherwise”. 

good points!