Counseling for children

[polaris9]

We are just in the process of separating and are still living together.  My wife is uBPD.

We have a D9 and she has been allowed to carry on behaviour that is not appropriate to her age - like drinking milk from a baby bottle and wearing diapers - every night and some times during the day on weekends.  She also has most of her BMs in her underwear rather than in the toilet as she says that she "doesn't feel it".

I have been trying to change these behaviours but uBPDw either promotes them or doesn't have an issue with them.  This may be hard to deal with completely until we are fully separated but should I be speaking to a child counselor about strategies to changes these behaviours and starting to think about having D9 speak to the counselor?

How do I go about starting this, especially since uBPDw is unlikely to be in agreement?

[livednlearned]

Yes, definitely get a counselor involved.

Is D9 home schooled?

Honestly, I think all kids who have a BPD parent need at least some therapy.

If uBPD mom won't agree, and D9 goes to a school, would you be ok talking to the guidance counselor or family specialist? I asked to speak confidentially to both and they were both wonderful.

Another member here a while back had the school guidance counselor make a recommendation, which the member (Matt) then used as leverage in the parenting agreement.

If it came down to working it out in court, I would imagine that a judge would be very sympathetic to your perspective on this.

Infantilizing a child does seem to go along with dysfunctional parenting behaviors.

[polaris9]

D9 is in the regular school board. I am not sure that they have guidance counselors for younger grades like grade 4 here in Ontario. I don’t mind paying for counselling but part of the issue right now is the w reaction. But maybe I can phrase it as counselling to help with the separation/ divorce.

[Panda39]

You could try talking to your wife about counseling for your daughter in relation to your separation/divorce vs other issues.  That might be a way to get your daughter in the Therapist's door.

This way the "blame" falls on "the divorce" or both of you rather than squarely on your soon to be ex-wife (stbxw).

Panda39

[walkinthepark247]

We have a D9 and she has been allowed to carry on behaviour that is not appropriate to her age

I am dealing with this very same issue with my uBPDw. My D4.5 is showing some real aggression lately. She mirrors the actions of her mother. I am VERY concerned. I am still unsure where my marriage is. My wife isn't talking to me much these days. She locked herself in a room this morning. Meanwhile, kids were asking "where is mommy". I have a D2 as well. I see stress in the eyes of the D2. D4.5 has been crying a lot lately inexplicably. I feel your pain.

[walkinthepark247]

This way the "blame" falls on "the divorce" or both of you rather than squarely on your soon to be ex-wife (stbxw).

This is the problem I have faced in the past. When I have mentioned counseling for D4.5, it always ends in "you think I'm a $@%y mother!". Keep in mind that I am only focusing on the behavior I see, not on fault. But, if I were truly being honest, I would say that the daughter is mirroring uBPDw's behavior.

[livednlearned]

D9 is in the regular school board. I am not sure that they have guidance counselors for younger grades like grade 4 here in Ontario. I don’t mind paying for counselling but part of the issue right now is the w reaction. But maybe I can phrase it as counselling to help with the separation/ divorce.

A couple of questions just to clarify.

Do you need your wife's permission to get counseling for D9 (legally)?
If you don't need to get your wife's permission, do you feel comfortable seeking counseling without her consent?

Do you want these counseling services to be subject to subpoena/testimony if your case goes to court?
Or do you want D9 to have a confidential, safe space to talk about what's going on?

[polaris9]

So far D9 hasn’t shown any real problems but we haven’t told her that we are separating. She has told her cousin a few interesting things like that Mommy acts strangely sometimes and she has said if mommy and daddy get divorced I am going to live with mommy. I don’t know if she suspects something or if this was prompted by friends of hers going through a parental breakup.

Do I need my wife’s consent for counseling?  I am not sure yet. But if she didn’t approve I worry that she would fight it or sabotage the counseling. She has sabotaged my efforts to end some of the behaviour, like allowing the diapers and baby bottle. And she does have a lawyer involved for our D15 who is special needs.

I don’t know about using this as evidence in court, I don’t think I want that. I am more concerned with helping my D through the issues that will be caused by separation and trying to mitigate any problems caused by letting her carry on with these infant behaviours at this age. I also worry a wee bit that BPD is hereditary or contagious. My wife's mother passed away several years ago but when I think back on some of her behaviour I think that she could have had BPD or other mental health issues.

[polaris9]

A bit of an update in that my lawyer sent a letter yesterday to stbxuBPDw. Some of the letter deals with finances but we have also asked for counselling for D9.  It will be interesting to see the response.

We are still living together - should I try talking to my wife about this.  She denied receiving the letter yesterday but that was BS as I can see that the PDF file was in the Downloads folder on the computer that she was using.  Other than that we are actually getting on pretty well - I am wondering if I should continue the Sam and Ralph routine where we separate out the home mode vs divorce mode.

[ForeverDad]

My lawyer told me, "Court's love counseling."  So it's hard to imagine the court denying that request for counseling.  However, there is a risk of your spouse demanding to pick a counselor.  Odds are that if it's left up to an entitled disordered spouse, it will be an inexperienced or gullible counselor.  How to minimize that risk?  The approach that will probably work is for you to do confidential research or interviews to locate the ones with the experience and reputation to not be pushed around or steamrollered.  Then present the vetted list to the court and ask for her to select from among that solid list of professionals.  Court will like that, it will view it as the parents working together selecting a counselor.  That you stacked the deck in favor of the better counselors doesn't have to be mentioned, ahem, if you get my meaning.

BTW, it's also an approach you can use if you need a Custody Evaluator or a Guardian ad Litem (GAL, child's lawyer).  Like counselors, lawyers and other professionals, some are better than others and when dealing with acting-out PDs, you need the best possible choices in the mix.  Sometimes a bad professional can almost be worse than no professional.

[Turkish]

This is hard still living together. 

Four years seperated (then D1 and S just turned 4), I'm still dealing with their mother wiping their backsides. My ex is aware of my view, but still does it.  Two years ago I was talking about this with my ex,  enabled by her mom.  I don't think at 5.5 a father (or mother!) should be wiping a daughter's vagina,  nor a 7 year olds backside.  A month ago,  D5 had a tantrum on the bookstore men's bathroom crying for me to wipe her.  I wasn't so much embarrassed (as I could give a crap what other people think), but angry and frustrated that the kids mom enables this dependency.

Last week my ex told me that D5 said,  "can you wipe me? I know daddy won't wipe me at his house,  but we are here." She knew.  I knew.  I just shook my head. 

I've made it clear to both kids what I will or won't do here.  I took some tantrums, but they realize it now.  I've been struggling with it for two years. 

Don't feel badly about enforcing boundaries even if you get flack from mom and your daughter.  You know what is right.  Seek therapy and be honest.  I'm feeling for you still living together and how hard it must be. 

[scraps66]

My now S13 struggled with bowel control as well, until he was 9.  Mother, exuNPDBPDw, "solved" the problem by taking S13 to the pediatrician, conveniently without me, and had him diagnosed with ecopresis?  This is a "physical" problem with the child's bowels.  Ex failed to describe other things that are going on, like the bickering and abusing right in front of the children, like the fact that S13 was acting out, hitting other children at the pool and being ostracized from his group of friends.

In terms of counseling, absolutely get your daughter some help, now.  If you're getting legally separated you may need both parents to consent after separation.  That can be a huge issue with shared parenting with a BPD parent.  It allows the other parent to control whether counseling happens or not.

I have unsuccessfully been to many therapists.  I really think it is best to find someone who is aware of the effects of a BPD in a child's life.  An ordinary child psychologist may not understand some of the weirdest behaviors that a child of a BPed parent go through.   

It sounds as if you STBx has some Munchausen traits, like she's OK with the bad behaviors as long as she is the "savior" for the child?  My case now years later I see those traits very prominently with my S13.  He's been suspended 8 times in the last three years and is now suspended for 10 days for bringing a knife to school.  In most cases mother finds fault with school and has either not agreed to, or sabotaged, any kind of counseling available.

As Foreverdad says courts love counseling.  However I must be the only person on this board to have been in front of a Master that disallowed my Petition for counseling back in 2010.