attempts to validate often seem to backfire

[CycleBreaker123]

It seems like any sort of paraphrasing "it sounds like you are upset about the argument you had with your mother" gets twisted into "I hate it when you assume stuff about what is going on with me" or "don't jump to conclusions" - usually followed often by "it's annoying when you tell me how I should be feeling".       The "don't tell me how I should be feeling" thing comes up a lot in response to attempts to validate - as if my trying to reflect back what she says is somehow translated by her into "you should feel this way".   It's like she finds any sort of paraphrasing as somehow offensive - we once had a big conflict over

 "I really like chocolate ice cream"

         "yeah, chocolate is my favorite flavor"

"I didn't say chocolate was my favorite flavor!   Why are you telling me what my favorite ice cream flavor is?"

What is certainly true is when I try to validate stuff, it feels somewhat inauthentic on my part - kind of coddling and overly touchy-feely - almost condescending - it's like I'm putting on my "validation hat" and she is sort of busting me for trying to appease her "aha, you are trying to soothe the wild beast, well it WON'T WORK, so THERE!".    Anybody else have this sort of thing?     Or is that once one is put into the BLACK ZONE, then basically anything you say will be used against you, so to speak, so it hardly matters trying to figure it out.   

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[Qman]

I find this tricky too. I now know what invalidating is and I can see I was often doing that, but not quite yet getting what to replace it with. One thing that really stuck with me reading about validating is that validating is not just agreeing, but allowing the person to feel that they are being heard and their thoughts/statements acknowledged.

It's easy to pick apart individual statements with hindsight (harder to do this in real life), so for example, your statement: "yeah, chocolate is my favorite flavor" switches the conversation to you and adds your interpretation about "favorite" (although, of course, I agree with you that this is such a simple statement it really shouldn't cause much conflict). You could have followed with something like: "Oh, so what's your favorite?"

So now I find myself using lots of little statements like "Oh ... .yeah ... .cool ... .oh, that's a pity ... .yeah, I understand ... ." but making sure I really listen, with eye-contact, and asking little questions to start/continue conversation. I never found the paraphrasing was very useful - didn't seem very authentic in a loving relationship, and she's very used to hearing that in therapy.

[yeeter]

 

Validation is tricky to come off as sincere.  Focus on her, not you (a normal conversation would be back and forth but this isn’t normal).  And focus on what she is feeling (her feelings are her feelings). 

Something like:  ‘you really like chocolate ice cream.  I did not know that.  What other foods do you enjoy?’

[RolandOfEld]

Yes yes yes yes happening with me, too CycleBreaker123. I try to validate, sincerely, and my wife says "I don't know what website or what therapist taught you that but it doesn't work." When she dysregulates she just wants me to admit I'm wrong and explain why I didn't admit I was wrong to begin with (note: sometimes I am wrong, but probably not to the proportion she believes). I don't want to "admit" I'm "selfish" "cheap" "etc" when I don't think these are black and white descriptions of me. I used to just admit everything and found it hurt my personal dignity / self perception and only threw more fuel onto her issues in the long run. So its really hard to know what to say now. I still believe there is a real feeling under her raging and that if I can tap into that it makes things better. But she sees my way of discussing things as "an argument that YOU started" and that I am just running away from my responsibility. It is truly exhausting.

[itgetsbetter94]

People with BPD are excellent mind readers and can pick up any emotion from nons... .I can understand why they can't see these validation tactics as genuine.
I broke up with mine before I could use any of these tactics, but even if I stayed longer and discovered them... .I don't believe I'd use validation as it is presented. To me it really does sound fake, patronising and condescending.  I think any pwBPD would detect that. And tbh, if someone talked to me that way "Oh, I see, you feel... .", I would be slightly creeped out to say the least. It simply sounds unnatural, overly book-ish and like playing a psychiatrist.  Even my psychiatrist doesn't talk to me this way.   I can easily see how one could be irritated by that, BPD or non.

[Tattered Heart]

Validation is tricky to come off as sincere.  Focus on her, not you (a normal conversation would be back and forth but this isn’t normal).  And focus on what she is feeling (her feelings are her feelings). 

Something like:  ‘you really like chocolate ice cream.  I did not know that.  What other foods do you enjoy?’

This is great yeeter. A perfect example of validating. Validating is about not about you, what you are feeling, what you think, etc. It's solely about letting the pwBPD know that you are hearing them and understand them. I try really hard not to parrot back to my H what he said because that makes him mad. Instead, I've starting asking validating questions. I've found that these help much more than just making a statement or repeating back what my H says.