Continuing To Infantilize D5

[Turkish]

Last month,  and before,  it was D5.5 throwing a tantrum because I refused to wipe her.  I can almost understand it if were her backside,  but she wanted me to wipe her after she pees. No way.  I explained it to her.  Mommy does this. 

Their mom told me a few weeks later that our daughter requested to be wiped,  "because we're not at daddy's house." So my boundary works.  No surprise. 

Today we went out to lunch.  Her mom literally spoon fed our daughter... .though D had no problem opening her yoghurt tube and feeding herself that.  Apparently she was too helpless to pick up her spoon and feed herself mac and cheese. 

I made several comments on it.  My ex and I never get into a row about it.  I feel part of her appreciates me saying anything because we used to talk about such things.  She comes from a culture where women typically derive identity through motherhood.  My ex knows better,  but it's hard to overcome cultural and familial inertia,  especially the latter.  She's always communicated that she's guilted by her mother of she doesn't meet certain standards. 

A year ago,  the family invited me for a holiday get together an hour out of town.  My ex didn't make it due to car issues,  and didn't ask for a ride until after we were on our way out of town.  My ex hates driving alone anyway and she was semi seperated from her H at the time,  so she never came. 

The family ordered pizza.  I made it clear several times to the kids that this was their dinner.  Only milk or water when we got home.  S then 6 ate.  D then 4 didn't.  After a while,  I saw grandma sitting with a paper plate and a slice of pizza,  calling our daughter over to take a bite on between D ruining around playing.  I didn't say anything. 

How much harder will this become when she becomes a teenager?

I caught S7 (2nd grade) doing D5's homework the other night.  I made a note on the paper: "S7 did this." My ex has him help her with her homework.  Nothing wrong with that,  but this goes into enabling.  D5 will whine, "but I don't know how to draw!" Her brother stepped in to rescue when I was out of the room. 

I'm going to see their mom next weekend at a family event.  I think I'll talk to her more about this. 

Every morning,  D5 has me carry her to the door of her classroom from the street into the campus.  I'm the only parent doing this,  so I'm not immune to P5 (Princess 5).

[GaGrl]

When DH and I married, his D and GD moved in with us. Their alternative would have been to live with DH's uNPD/BPD ex, who had taken over much of the grandfather's parenting and definitely infantilized her. HE's E was so depressed at the time, plus really had little knowledge of what was age-appropriate development for a child, that she had allowed it to continue.

Much changed when they moved in with us. SD got a job in a better economic area, in the field in which she had received certification. GD entered a pre-school at which SD had to "show up" as the parent. DH and I had household rules on meals. GD4 had to use a plastic glass for drinking - no more sippy cup.  Plus it was expected that GD learn and be responsible for personal care - toothbrushing, toilet, bath.

Maybe approaching it as "personal care"?

(And yes, she's too old to be carried to class.)

[flourdust]

Yes, that's odd. My own ex tends to treat our daughter as if she's a few years younger than she is but not to that extreme.

I suspect that much of this will go away on its own. D5 isn't going to want to be babied when she's 7, 8, 9, etc., and the peer pressure starts to kick in.

If you're looking to make some kind of parenting change, you can document everything.

You can certainly enforce different rules in your house.

I suspect that when she is at school, nobody is wiping her or carrying her. So she knows that she can get different treatment from mom.

[Panda39]

Yep,

I saw this also when I first met my SO, is youngest daughter 10 at the time still believed in Santa, sucked her thumb and had a blankie.  Both her uBPDmom and parentified older sister reinforced the "baby" mentality. 

My SO's mom talking to D10 at Christmas, said "What you still believe Santa is real?  Aren't you a little old for that?"  God Bless her she just took the bull by the horns.

Panda39

[kells76]

Good point from flourdust that she isn't likely getting the baby treatment at school, at least. And from what you've described, sounds like she is starting to process that there are different rules at moms vs dads house. Do you think the tantrum was about not getting what she wanted in that instant? Could it have been about not liking that the expectations are different at moms & dads (i.e. more generally)?

Interesting how this shows up with two-sibling families. SD11's role was (is... .) golden child, parentified, "wise", "precocious", etc  . SD9 did a lot of the "I'm the baby" pretending, Mom would say "SD9 doesn't know what she wants", was behind in school but no LD... .SD11 felt over empowered to parent SD9/manage her behavior.

Things have gotten better w/counseling and, for SD9, age. Counselor helped her stand up to SD11 better, and SD11 will play pretend stuff with SD9 cooperatively (which I think is good). But I think the question of how much do you keep doing "young" stuff for the kids is tough when a parent is u/BPD.

I agree with you that D5 should do the wiping/hygiene tasks & feed herself; those do seem regressive. The carrying I might see differently (unless it's complain-y/just don't feel like it) -- I think the girls' mom was so wrapped up in her own feelings that the kids maybe didn't get a lot of chances to feel like they were kids getting parented by her. I think SD11 coped by jumping up to Mom's adult space and getting her needs met by being a little adult for Mom, and SD9 went back to a time when Mom would've had to meet all her needs as a baby. Big split in coping techniques. So now I guess I see doing "young" stuff for SD11 especially as a mini reparenting, where if we carry her upstairs or do a bedtime story or whatnot, hopefully it's filling in those blanks.

So I guess I see the carrying as potentially different from feeding/wiping, but it's also different between the kids. SD9 wanted to be carried for a LONG time (age 6.5 - 7?) but is past that now (except for fun). If the kids were more entrenched in their roles, I would be way more ok with carrying older vs younger kid, if that makes sense. The roles are less rigid now so I don't worry as much about that. I worry about a lot of other things though 

[kells76]

Also re: HW

We mostly have both kids in different rooms but both in line of sight for HW (one in kitchen & one in living room). SD11 used to try to jump in with answers for SD9, I think to boost her own self esteem/feel superior. Now if she does involve herself in SD9's HW it's more out of wanting to actually help, but it does still end up confusing SD9. DH is good at just setting a boundary and being clear with SD11. I don't think she realizes yet that not all "help" is helpful for people who need to learn things for themselves -- she does have a big time rescuer mentality.

To her credit though, she asked SD9 for help on her OWN HW the other day! Good job kids

With SD9 we've had success doing a role reversal and having her "teach" me or DH whatever she needs to review. Not sure if your D5 is old enough for that but you could try it. For drawing you could have her be the "teacher" teaching you the "student" how to draw a circle or whatever. SD9 would do her teacher voice and get a pointer. Pretty cute. You can ask lots of leading questions and make some mistakes, have her help you correct your work. "Is this how I draw a triangle? What should I do first? What did I forget?" Etc.