Boyfriend's BPD Mom Wants to Talk Again

[Sophcat]

Hello All.
I don't want to get too into the details again for sake of time, but my boyftiend and I are recovering from a severe outburst by his mom that lasted from Mid October until Christmas. He went home at Christmas and finally had somewhat of a breakthrough conversation with her, however, I haven't said but thank you for the small Xmas gift she got me in three months. She used the fact that I had just shared with her about my long history of eating disorders against me- told my boyfriend he should've left me, continually calls me emotionally unhealthy, and says I don't want to work on getting better and go to therapy. This was all very hurtful and utterly false... at the time I shared about my ED, I told her how well I was doing and that I was 11 months with no symptoms and feeling great. I'm now 14 months, and I also told her how I spent years in therapy, until I realized my bingeing and purging was more of a bad cycle I just needed to break.

Anyway,  she recently asked my boyfriend if I would ever talk to them (meaning her and her husband), to which my boyfriend said yes, but that I was still needing closure from her for what happened before. Her response was that it wasn't just her, his dad had concerns about me too. I so desperately wish I could talk to her and convince her that I am a healthy person and defend myself, but I also feel like I don't need to waste my breath explaining myself to someone who has already betrayed my trust. Why do I owe it to her to talk if she can't even acknowledge that she does perhaps need to apologize to me? I just worry that if we do talk, I will be too brutally honest and make her face the fact that her words truly hurt, and then she will take it out on my boyfriend again. I don't know if it's worth it. But it is so interesting to me that she is perceiving our current non-talking as me just not wanting to speak, as if she didn't say such mean things.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what my best course of action is here? I personally feel I will have to tell her how this all affected me if we talk... but I cannot see that ending well. I also don't feel like I need to prove myself to someone who is so careless with people's most sensitive secrets. Although she tried to ostracize my boyfriend from his family, he has moved on because she is his mom and he loves her. When she is normal she is a perfectly pleasant person, and I wish I could forget that this happened and forgive her, but it's not that simple of course.

[strength_love]

Have you considered agreeing to talk with the mediation/facilitation of a trusted counselor or therapist - one that is independent of both parties but who has experience in dealing with BPD and family conflict? It might sound extreme but this woman doesn't sound safe to deal with and any connection you have with her should include protections for yourself and for your boyfriend.

If the therapist idea won't fly with them I'd urge you to only agree to meet in a public place where outbursts from her are likely to be somewhat curbed.

I would also caution you to avoid sharing too much with her about how she has affected you. With BPD people that later becomes ammo for them to know how best to hurt you. Same goes for justifying yourself to her or sharing too much personal information about how and why you are healthy. Anything you say can and will be used against you later on.

[Sophcat]

Wow- I think you are right... anything I say could potentially be used against me. It's so freakin ridiculous but probably accurate. Unfortunately we live 12 hours apart- so the only conversation could be phone or email. The other aspect is that she doesn't admit she has BPD... at least she hasn't to my boyfriend. She did share with him at Christmas that her mom had BPD, which has only further solidified my confidence that she suffers too. She only acknowledges deep depression as her struggle... which I don't doubt is also present. I think for the sake of my continually improving mental health maybe I should just let her be upset with me and maintain virtually no contact.

[strength_love]

I agree. Unless you were able to find a way to bring a neutral mediating third party practitioner into the phone call, it would not be safe for you to talk with her on the phone. And email is even more dangerous because it's so easy for wires to get crossed.

[Notwendy]

I know you confided in her, like you would confide in an empathetic person. Unfortunately, pwBPD can act empathetic and kind, and then also dysregulate. I learned this too. I used to confide in my BPD mother, but realized she was not a reliable or safe person to share personal information with. I do speak to her, but on a very superficial level, as if she was an acquaintance. I am pleasant wit her, but don't share personal information.

My mother's method of "apology" is what I call the "dry erase" method ( or etch a sketch- an old toy where you could draw or write something, shake it, and it would be a blank slate). She does not really acknowledge her behavior- but acts nice again and we are supposed to pretend it didn't happen and go on- until another dysregulation. I don't know if this lack of apology is due to being unremorseful, projection, or that looking at her own behavior triggers too much shame in her. I know an apology would be more satisfactory to you ( and to me) but I do not know if it is a possible goal and going after one may just lead to more issues.

I really understand your wish to make her see that you are a good, emotionally healthy, person. I feel the same way, but due to my mother's projections, she sees what she sees and I can not make her "see" the real me. My approach to this is to not try. I stay true to my own ethics- I am not a perfect person- nobody is, but I try every day to do my best and like you said, I don't need my mother's validation.

Reading about the drama triangle (Karpman) helps me to see how my mother takes victim perspective and how this leads to drama. Getting into drama feeds it. I can see why your BF has just resigned to let things go. Confronting an emotionally healthy person may lead to resolution, but confronting his mother may just lead to more drama and she doesn't learn from it anyway.

You've already "won" this. You and your BF are still together and if you stay together, his mother will be a person in your lives- but it is your relationship with him that is primary. How do you deal with her? My approach is boundaries- a division between my personal life and what I am willing to share with my mother.

It is understandable that his mother wants what other women in her situation would want- a relationship with her son, and his world- which you are a part of. When my mother dysregulates, she is basically out of control- and when she calms down, her bad feelings are temporarily gone- that is when the dry erase apology happens- let's just start over.

Why she got concerned over your history of an ED is interesting. I don't know her exact reasons for it,  but pwPD's see their children as extensions of themselves. PwPD's have split their own selves into bad and good- or basically perfect or they feel they are somehow defective or unworthy. Anything can be a trigger of those bad feelings. But humans are more complicated than that and there are no perfect humans. Learning that you had a challenge to deal with may have triggered some memory, or feeling, or fear that she could not deal with. I find the ED issue interesting because it is more frequent in pwBPD.  My BPD mother is very concerned about her weight ( I think she has a bit of ED) and when I was a teen, she was constantly telling me I needed to lose weight. Looking at old pictures of myself - I was actually slim, but built differently than she is- I was into sports and more athletic than she was and somehow this bothered her or she projected something about her own fears. My mother doesn't admit to having BPD either.

So assuming this woman will be in your lives, sit down with your BF and come up with a plan to stay in contact with her while avoiding emotional drama. I have shared a couple of things I do- keep conversations superficial, be pleasant and not too emotional either way ( upset or excited). Short visits are easier than long ones. Visits where we are doing something are easier than sitting around the house ( more opportunities to get into drama). Not being alone with her. Meeting in public places. Taking my mother out to lunch with other people goes better than a one on one situation with her.

The "dry erase" method may also work for you. Not that you forget- but that you learn from this: do not confide personal issues with her and have boundaries. If you meet with her- go out to lunch and bring your BF. Let her talk more than you do. My hunch is that- she won't really bring up the tough stuff- and she may go with the dry erase method, blame it on something else- even you, and then drop it and go on as if it didn't happen. This won't get you the satisfaction of an apology, but you also then can continue with your personal boundaries and your own private life.

My mother has come up with all kinds of reasons for her behavior- she wasn't feeling well, it wasn't just her, but my dad too ( that is common, bring in a third person) , or some other reason. I have learned that this is really the best she can do with her disorder.

[GaGrl]

Rather than focusing on "hurt," perhaps she could understand that her betrayal of trust is what has resulted in damage to your relationship with het. That is more objective - you told her something in confidence that she disclosed without your petmission.

[Sophcat]

Thank you for the thorough response, that provided a lot of insight for me. Yes, I so wish I had not shared that with her, but at the time I was unaware of BPD and how serious her "emotional swings" could be. The odd part was that her own daughter also had an ED, and after I shared with his mom about mine, she asked if she could text his sister to share with her. I was fine with it, and his sister also sent me nice messages relating, etc. So the fact that she went on to accuse me of being some inferior person was extra confusing, presumably she doesn't view her daughter this way. She also insulted my own parents' handling of my ED and said she felt sorry for me that they were clueless. I would never dream of blaming my parents for it... I think she wishes I were not close to my parents and needed her more.

I think she too uses the dry erase method. Once she's not feeling so bad, all of the horrible things that were said seem to disappear in her mind. She told my boyfriend that she said them because that's how she felt at the time. OK, clearly to a non BPD person that's not an acceptable response. I also think you're right, her comments are so steeped in projection it's sometimes ridiculous. Telling us both that we need to go to therapy because we're horrible, inconsiderate people... when the initial drama was what would be a total nonissue to any other person.

I can't imagine having a BPD mother and I feel heartbroken for you and my BF. It's unfortunate to not be able to share openly and have a regular relationship. It has been a real rollercoaster for me since my relationship started out very well with her. She wanted to involve me in all of their family things, including their family group text. I thought her question of whether I would ever speak to them again was interesting, because to me, my current level of contact isn't abnormal. My parents don't constantly text my BF, and they are able to have a perfectly fine relationship. She seems to be a very all or nothing person. You're either all good, and she needs TONS of contact, or you're awful, and her only contact will be abusive emails and texts.

The sad thing is that I know this general calm is only temporary and before too long she will get angry about something else. I know for a fact that I do not want to be texting her and chatting frequently when that happens, because it obviously hurts more that way.

I think you have good advice- just be pleasant and only share surface level things. She had recently invited us to go to the beach with them this summer, I'm not sure if she'll be happier if I go, or if she would secretly prefer to just have her son there alone.

[Panda39]

Hi Sophcat,

I wanted to share a link on the Karpman Drama Triangle that Notwendy mentioned... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

I also wanted to agree with Notwendy on keeping the conversation superficial going forward and unfortunately know that the Eating Disorder information will probably continue to re-appear because it got a response from you.  Because it worked once (it created drama... .thus attention on her... .negative attention is still attention) she will try to use it again.

You might consider creating a boundary if she brings it up again, just tell her that you aren't comfortable discussing your ED.  Don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) because when we do that it only feeds the drama, and extends the discussion, and can actually create a circular argument that goes nowhere.  She will most likely push back people with BPD can be really good "boundary busters".  Just hold your ground... .I'm just not comfortable discussing this topic... .if she continues to push it might be time to leave or hang up the phone.  You might discuss this with your boyfriend first so the two of you are on the same page.  Because he was raised by his mom enforcing boundaries might be hard or uncomfortable for him.

More on JADE... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

More on Boundaries... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

Take Care,
Panda39

[Notwendy]

The fact that her own daughter had an ED is probably involved in her reaction. To her- this may have triggered bad feelings about her own parenting and so she projected that on you.

I think women with BPD don't take another woman being the subject of attention well. It doesn't make sense - it certainly isn't appropriate but it doesn't imply wrongdoing. My mother didn't like the father-daughter bond I had with my father. She knew she had to tolerate it at least publically- fathers love their daughters but she probably would have preferred to not share his time or attention.

I think it is ok for grown children to be alone with their parents without their partners. Both my H and I visit family alone sometimes and sometimes together. My H was his mother's son before he met me. She doesn't have BPD. Yes he married me but he is still her son. I think it is fine for her to have a one on one visit with him. I've even done that with our kids. ( but not my mom- they are not alone with her). You can consider just your BF at the beach - not from a negative perspective but just to have one on one time with his family. I do that too- if I'm alone with a sibling we just get silly and recall memories and a third person may just feel out of the loop.

[Sophcat]

Panda39 - thank you for the links to info, I look forward to reviewing them. I realize you are all right that justifying won't do me any good. It's hard to accept since it is human nature to want to truly resolve things. She is excellent with circular arguments... I think she just wants me to forget what was said and move on.

NotWendy - I actually am totally fine with him going to the beach with them alone, I go on a hike alone with my dad every year . I only feel unsure of whether the invite to me was purely her trying to do the normal/right thing, or if she really would like me to come. At this point, I'm thinking I'll just let him go and hopefully enjoy his time with them. I think she feels she handled her daughter's ED 'correctly', and it was nipped in the bud. That may be true, but I feel no resentment toward my parents for how they handled things. They weren't as aware of mental illness as she has been her entire life. She seems to like to place little digs at me... I chose to drop out of my masters program because I didn't want to pursue a PhD anymore and accruing more debt for a  degree I wouldn't use wasn't in my best interest. She has told my BF how sad it is that I am not doing what I want and that I dropped out. She then said during her angry spell that it was suspicious that my ED recovery coincided with me dropping out of school and dating her son! Ha! Yes, less stress and more happiness tends to have a positive effect on people's mental states. But anyway, I think she is just looking for reasons to pity my choices and criticize me. I feel sure she would do this to anyone my BF dated though...

[Notwendy]

My mother is very critical of family members not completing their plans according to her ideas. If you think about this as being an extension of her- no boundaries- then our accomplishments are felt to reflect her and our "failures" ( only in her mind) reflect her as well.

One of the boundaries I have with my kids is to keep their accomplishments to ourselves. General ones yes- like grandchild is graduating and will be attending college X. Of course if she doesn't think college X is prestigious enough  we will hear about it. But she isn't going to that college and she isn't paying for it, so her input isn't relevant. I also want my kids to feel their accomplishments are for them, not for her and they get to choose the educational goals and careers without her comments.

My mother went to college in the era where women went to college but the most common goal was to get married and be a housewife. So it was not unusual for her to do that, but she has not worked since the day she married. Yet, she has something to say ( not nice) about the degrees we kids got- or didn't get because of changing majors or even changing our minds, the jobs we chose. IMHO, I think it is all projection. She has a poor self image and looks for things in other people to confirm that. Someone who isn't happy with themselves projects this on to others.

I think it will help you to take the perspective that what your BF's mother says about you- is actually more about her than you. It hopefully may not bother you that much. To see my mother, who has never worked, criticize a siblings career or job is just crazy making. How would she know what that kind of job is like? But she does it anyway. Unless your BF's mother has pursued a PhD or masters, how would she have anything relevant to say about your choices.

[Sophcat]

Huh, that does seem so odd that she could feel she has any right to criticize others' career/college choices. His mom has switched careers many times - she is now a nurse which I do not think is a good job for her (variable and high stress). Ironically, one of the main reasons I shared with her about my ED was because she would not stop suggesting new career paths or degrees I should go for. While I initially thought she was well meaning, I was getting sick of her presuming I'm not satisfied as I am and cannot decide for myself what to do. I shared that my current low stress situation has been really good for my ED recovery - so that was why I wasn't jumping into more school, etc. Of course she seemed to understand this at the time, but now not so much.

I recently had to tell my BF to not overshare health information with his parents about me - which I heard him doing on the phone. I do not doubt that her next flare up will have something to do with how I'm physically unhealthy too because I had an EKG done. Hah! 

[Notwendy]

In families where a parent has poor boundaries, the other members may be used to oversharing. My mother tended to share TMI with me and expected me to share personal things with her too. It was her own lack of boundaries that led her to expect me to overshare. If your BF's mother is a nurse, it is pretty reasonable to share medical information with his mother- as she may have some knowledge to share. But that doesn't mean it is wise to share it with a pwBPD.

It could be an adjustment for him to have different boundaries. Your medical information is yours and not to be shared with anyone you don't want to have it.

It helps to get to a point where a lot of the stuff she says just rolls off your back as - like with my own mother- she has no basis for saying a lot of it.