VIDEO | How do you help someone with Borderline Personality Disorder~Jordan Peterson PhD

[Tattered Heart]

In this video Jordan Peterson PhD talks about how help someone who with Borderline Personality Disorder - how to help anyone who is lost.
Date: 7-2017Minutes: 4:32
How to help someone with BPD
Question: How would you help someone with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Answer: By example. By example.

There are necessary preconditions for entering into a relationship where the mutual flourishing of the two parties is the paramount goal. One of the preconditions is that both people have to want that to happen. If that is not the case, its not clear how to get the horse to drink once you have brought it to the water.

How do you help someone who is lost. If they are not willing to “not-be-lost”, you cannot help them. Sometimes they are so lost that they can’t be found. About the Author

Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. His main areas of study are in abnormal, social, and personality psychology with a particular interest in the psychology of religious and ideological beliefs. He worked as an assistant and an associate professor in the psychology department at Harvard University.  He authored 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos (Jan 2018, Penguin Books).  

[Harley Quinn]

In this video Jordan Peterson PhD talks about how pwBPD often have high IQs and an strong ability to understand their own behavior but are lower in the skills and understanding of how to change their behavior.
Date: 7-2017Minutes: 4:25
Borderline Personality Disorder - Jordan Peterson PhD
One of the things that's interesting about people with Borderline Personality Disorder... is that they are often quite intelligent. And you see in the person with Borderline Personality Disorder the waste, or the squandering, of tremendous potential. They seem capable of thinking through the nature of their problems, and analyzing it, and discussing it, but not capable whatsoever of implementing any solutions."

[heartandwhole]

Holy Smokes! that's interesting. I hadn't seen him before.  

[MeandThee29]

I finally got around to watching this. Very accurate.
 
Mine knows that how he relates to me doesn't work, but no idea on how to change it. He does have a formal BPD/NPD diagnosis. Every time that I've suggested counselling, he blews it off and often says that my counsellor is a waste of money because I haven't changed a bit. To this day he thinks that threats of finding someone else, belittling me, threatening divorce, demanding that I accept the verbal abuse as a "good" wife, etc. etc. is the way to get me to change. I dropped most of my friends and activities and tried doing everything I could to show him that I loved him, and it wasn't enough. He wanted more, but couldn't articulate what that really looked like. He also was highly jealous of any one-on-one time I spent with our young adults, even if it was just doing errands. At times he implied that I should basically cut them off in order to meet his needs. He recently said that either I move where he now lives and leave them behind, or I stay here with them and not be reconciled to him.

None of this makes any sense to someone who is psychologically healthy. I've shared it with close friends, and they just shake their heads. My counsellor says that this level of contempt means death of the relationship and to keep my distance (of course).

[Harley Quinn]

Absolutely agree. 

In my experience with my ex partner, he was fully cognisant of his condition and how it manifested, his triggers and how to manage them.  He did not manage them.  We had many calm and rational conversations where he would strategise about how he would cope and make plans which he'd initially follow through on yet would ultimately have a meltdown and they would be torn up or forgotten about. 

He was in therapy when I met him, which I saw as a positive indicator that he was motivated, and he showed motivation however would self sabotage repeatedly by abusing his P or being discharged from one service to another because they were unable to handle him / he failed to show up for appointments.  His crises often occurred prior to what could be an important appt. that would progress his pathway, and I spent a great deal of energy on ferrying him to appointments and smoothing things over after tantrums with clinicians.  Around the time I left him, he threw in the towel and decided to 'manage it himself'.  The mental health service had become another group of people who had mistreated and abandoned him.
   

[Wicker Man]

Dr. Peterson's book 'Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief' is a fascinating look at why conflict exists in human culture.

His lectures are widely available on YouTube.  He is, in my opinion, insightful and his lectures are informative and approachable.

[AustenJ]

My diagnosed exBPDgf would be very lucid at times in realizing she suffered from BPD as an umbrella disorder over her other traits of alcoholism, vaping, cutting, purging, impulsive sex, reckless driving, etc. However, she only tried DBT therapy once and that was years before she met me... .as many pwBPD, she stopped going to therapy because 1. the therapist was getting too close to her core trauma and 2. she did not like how the meds made her feel lethargic.

After that her best answer for fixing herself was "working harder" on herself and her issues. Or going to church more and going to confession... .Her plan of action ultimately was always drinking more... .

[bluek9]

I found the video facinating. I was really stuck on the last concpt " maybe boarderlines didn't get properly socialized between the ages of 2-4. My daughter wasn't even talking then, she was traumatized by her father when he kidknapped her at 2 1/2. I'll have to look into more by this guy.

[Mustbeabetterway]

One thing I do agree with in this video is the self fulfilling abandonment.  He explains that PWBPD presume abandonment and then behave in such a way that makes abandonment virtually certain. 

This happened in my marriage.  Over and over again my UBPDH exhibited behavior that tested the limits of our bond.  Because I loved him very much, and believed that he loved me, as well, we were able to get through some extremely difficult situations. 

But, I am older and do not have the energy or enthusiasm for these hurdles.  Finally, I had to choose self preservation or the relationship.   I have chosen self preservation. 

[Enabler]

Very interesting video. One of the points he made was that pwBPD appear to have a wasted potential. I very much agree with this point in my experience. My personal frustration with my W is not that she is incapable of achieving things but her inability to deliver. She can write me long emails telling me she wants to do xyz then doesn't. However, in other aspects of her life when she is very enthusiastic about things she's highly motivated and follows through with things. Peterson refers to the lack of conscientiousness resulting in the inability to go from concept to delivery.

Wiki Definition
Conscientiousness is the personality trait of being careful, or vigilant. Conscientiousness implies a desire to do a task well, and to take obligations to others seriously. Conscientious people tend to be efficient and organized as opposed to easy-going and disorderly.

Using this as a base I thought about how that plays out in my reality. My wife is incredibly conscientious... .so I thought... .but on reflection I think one can appear conscientious without actually being conscientious. I believe that my W acts out of fear, fear of failure, fear of the word 'No', fear of being told she is wrong. It is about her feelings, not about other people and her impact on them. My W would rather not attempt or take responsibility for anything where she thinks she might deliver anything short of perfection. This also appears to manifest itself in different grades depending on the audience. She doesn't object to disappointing me, possibly because she is most sensitive to any signs of disappointment from me... .which ironically means she tries to deliver as little as possible to me to avoid disappointment which is disappointing in itself.

An example of this via my D9 who also struggles a lot with perfectionism and decision making:
D9 - what can I have for pudding?
Enabler - what would you like for pudding?
D9 - I don't know, what is there I can have?
Enabler - the usual things
D9 - you tell me what I can have and then I can choose
Enabler - you know what there is
D9 - But I will ask for something and you will say no
Enabler - that's okay isn't it? That's the worst that can happen
D9 - please can you just come up with some suggestions, I'm really hungry and want some pudding
Enabler - I'll come up with one suggestion then you come up with one, you are telling me you want pudding so you must know what you would prefer to eat, you can ask for whatever you like, I can always say no... .Water
D9 - That's a drink
Enabler - Ice
D9 - That's still a drink
Enabler - a satsuma
D9 - I've just had one of those, what else
Enabler - Your turn
D9 - pllllleeeeeeease give me another sensible suggestion

My daughter is debilitated by the thought of someone saying "No", someone saying that she did/chose/acted/said/thought/felt ANYTHING that is wrong. She is a super perfectionist with school work because she fears her teacher telling her off or being anything other than full of praise.  D9 is very very intelligent and has a high IQ, but is constrained by following instructions (to avoid failure), lacks confidence to think outside the box because out the box is scary and 'could' be 'wrong'... .and 'wrong' feels like death.

I am without any doubt that I have contributed to this with bad parenting (edited that... .emotionally invalidating parenting, parenting inappropriate to an emotionally sensitive child) and failing to know about emotionally sensitive people. Likewise I have a heavy heavy heart that my actions for the last 20 years have added to my wife's emotional pain. They both have soo much untapped potential to achieve the things they verbalise they want to achieve.

[Daisy123]

Wow! Excellent video... .

My DD20 is highly intelligent. She does have difficulty identifying an emotion. She often just feels pain and "unwell" as she puts it. She has great difficulty implementing any plans. So she could have an appointment and we are never sure she will make it to the appointment. My question is-how can someone with BPD move beyond strategizing and into implementation?

As for tantrums, yes-the tantrums are very scary and include police because they escalate to that point. She had huge tantrums a few times a year. Then she went on Effexor and had tantrums every few weeks. She's since titrated off of this med.

As a toddler, she had few tantrums, we thought she must be an easy going child. I question what I may have done during this time that could have kept her from this important phase in her development.

She is a perfectionist and is terrified of school. She is terrified of giving the wrong answer or has anxiety when she does not know the answer. This is a tremendously huge issue that keeps her from attending school or even during therapy. We had a family session with her and I watched her shut down. She left the room to use the ladies room and I spoke with the therapist about the turn in her quiet behavior. Thankfully-the therapist gently brought up the change in mood and DD felt comfortable expressing that she didn't know how to answer the questions the therapist was asking and that DD had felt anxious about not knowing how to answer the question.

Again, I wonder how or what I did to reinforce this "get the right answer" belief in her.

Great video-I plan to follow this gentleman on Youtube.
Thanks for sharing

[formflier]

I found this first video to be very interesting.  I've got some thoughts on it and the journey of my relationship.  I'll give others some time to comment first.  Plus... I'm kinda slammed today sorting things out after my trip.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Good video. Yes, sometimes the best thing you can do is to walk away. I wish I had figured that out earlier in my first marriage, rather than spending far too many years wishing and hoping that things could be better.

I seldom remember my dreams, but I do remember a dream I had when I was still married to my first husband. I was in the ocean, treading water, but slowly running out of energy and getting pulled under, but then with a tremendous burst of strength, I'd surface again. My mother had hold of one foot and my husband had the other and I kept trying to keep my head above water, but it was becoming harder and harder... .

[Harri]

I'm a Jordan Peterson fan.   

Walking away is certainly an option.  I found what he said about teaching by example very interesting.  Saying to get your life together and show them an alternative way of being.  He also says that you can't help someone who does not want help and that we should stop offering it.  That too is true. 

Watching the video I kept thinking that what he is saying is what we talk about here all over this site.

 

[Skip]

Good video. Yes, sometimes the best thing you can do is to walk away.

Isn't his point really that we help people with "BPD traits" by leading by example? That we need to model better behavior. We need to be in the relationship role model and  the type of person who we want them to be (within reason).

And if after a time that is not happening... .if the person clearly doesn't want a mutual relationship where both parties flourish, that there is not much more we can do.

Sounds simple enough.

We say it all the time here.

Not very many members do it, however. More often than not, we get caught up in, and fuel the dysfunction. It becomes a battle for who is right and who is wrong. We may "model for a brief period" and then fall back into the dysfunctional relationship.

Good video!

[Cat Familiar]

What I've learned from multiple pwBPDs in my life is that I must be strong, autonomous and wholly un-invested in their behavior. They will do what they will. It's not up to me to influence them, control them, manipulate them. They have every right to live life as they choose. If we can be compatable, then I will enjoy that time together. Should our values diverge, then I will go my separate way. 

[formflier]

One of the elements of this video that impresses me is the succinctness of the message.

You  guys know me... .I use a lot of words.  I've been working on "focusing my message" for a few years now.  I suppose I'm making some progress.

Anyway... .Peterson is thoughtful, focuses his message and moves on.  

If what you have been doing to help your pwBPD isn't working... .stop it.  Peterson's message, and the point Skip really picked up on, goes a bit further.  When you "move on" with your life, realize that you are "living by example".

We all know that means "living by example" with someone that will distort, confuse, conflate, accuse... .etc etc.

Powerful video... powerful message.

FF

[defogging]

I'm a fan of Dr. Peterson, I've heard him on several podcasts.

Great video.

[Red5]

Tattered Heart,

After watching the two embedded videos... .

I’ve gone and found a whole series of Jordan Peterson (PhD) videos on YouTube.

He delves into to much of this even further... .all very interesting.

There may be more (additional) videos in there; that may be also relevant and or helpful to this current forum, 

I’d never heard of him before, good “make you think” stuff, thank you for sharing,

Great post!

Red5

[Enabler]

Date: 9-2017Minutes: 9:45
Is Life Worth The Suffering?

Interesting perspective on making things better, being admirable and showing the way.

[Wrongturn1]

In this video Jordan Peterson PhD talks about how pwBPD often have high IQs and an strong ability to understand their own behavior but are lower in the skills and understanding of how to change their behavior.

Peterson makes a good point about BPDs understanding the solutions to their problems but not being equipped to implement those solutions; however, he seems to view antisocial tendencies as a root cause of the disorder, which I think he gets backwards - the negative self image, fear of abandonment, and lack of identity comprise the core of the disorder, which produce antisocial tendencies as a side effect.