Had quite a rollercoaster conversation with ex today

[blooming]

So I started a topic this afternoon saying my ex has messaged me and that I was having a hard time because I was being so normal and polite and I couldn't see a trace of his BPD traits, which made me feel like I had imagined everything etc.

But then he ended the conversation quite suddenly with some mean remarks thrown in there. I decided to ignore those remarks and just said it was nice to have talked to him and wished him good luck with his studies etc.

Then he got angry (I think he couldn't handle that I didn't react to those remarks and was the adult the conversation, he hass said before that he hates it when I do this because he feels like he can't win from me) and started accusing me of having changed since we broke up and if I can finally be myself again why I'm still so sad. I said I didn't feel like having a conversationg like this and wished him a good day. Then he said "Why, do you find it too confronting?" and I said "No, I just don't feel like you starting conflict again right away."  And then he accused me of not talking enough in the relationship and that I was the one who ruined it all. I didn't reply to that.

Then about 20 minutes later he sent a message saying something like "I'm sorry, I'm just really angry at the situation but I won't bother you with it anymore." And I said I understood and I didn't like it either and that he didn't have to say sorry. And he then went on to say that he was angry with me/us/what happened (not himself... .) and that he hated what had happened. I said I hated it too. Then he said that he was still worried about me and I said he had to let go of that worry, that I could take care of myself. And he said "But I'm not sure if I can take care of myself". Then he said he felt sorry for me being so insecure about myself and that I was so much more than that.  I said I was working on it with my therapist and he said that he found it a pity that he couldn't see the new confident me.

Then he started talking about the new wallpaper in his room and that it was a pity I couldn't see it, but that he wouldn't want to propose unwise/stupid things and that if he did propose them it wouldn't matter because "Blooming wouldn't agree to them anyway". I said that he was right and I just don't think it would be wise to do that sort of thing and then he said that was real pity and proceeded to talk about how he had gone to a spinning class that evening. I wished him good night and he said good night back and that was the end of the conservation.

I really don't know how to feel about all this and what to do with it. It hurts to hear that he's angry with me and that he hates the way things went. I hate it too, but we can't change it anymore. It sucks that he blames it all on me. I think that's unjust, he made mistakes too. And it was so hard to decline his offer. If I had wanted it I could've spent the night at his place, could've laid in his arms again. But I just don't think it'll help me in letting go and it would never be like it was during our relationship. It would only have given me hope where there is none.

[Aiko]

Sounds like he sucked u back in w seemingly innocent txt to which u responded. And the it opened the door for more abuse, and so the cycle begins.  One way out only, block him from every way of getting in contact with you, deal with the pain and move on from him and heal.  You will never heal otherwise as the cycle will repeat and repeat and repeat. They're sick.

[blooming]

Sounds like he sucked u back in w seemingly innocent txt to which u responded. And the it opened the door for more abuse, and so the cycle begins.  One way out only, block him from every way of getting in contact with you, deal with the pain and move on from him and heal.  You will never heal otherwise as the cycle will repeat and repeat and repeat. They're sick.

Yes I guess that's exactly what happened. It's just so scary how he can be so calculating and how he seems to have lost all respect for me. That hurts. It's just so weird how his head works, that first he seems so normal and polite then suddenly he gets really angry at me and then he is saying that he's still having a hard time and then he is inviting me to his home to lure me in his bed. So unpredictable. Well at least now I know that he hasn't changed a bit and that his upcoming relationship will probably end like ours did too, because he hasn't learned anything.

I know  the wisest thing would be to block him but I just can't make myself do it. Do you really think he'll contact me again after I rejected him now?

[Aiko]

Yes he will, probably today.   I been there, think most everyone on these boards has been there.  And if your like i was, you will somewhere in your head want him to reach back out to you thus keeping a line of communication open,or unblocking them, or worse reaching out to him when u don't hear from him.  If you are available to be reached he will prob keep sucking u dry.  I apologize for being blunt but this is what happens, they cycle.  Once u cut him off completely be prepared for an outburst.

[blooming]

Yes he will, probably today.   I been there, think most everyone on these boards has been there.  And if your like i was, you will somewhere in your head want him to reach back out to you thus keeping a line of communication open,or unblocking them, or worse reaching out to him when u don't hear from him.  If you are available to be reached he will prob keep sucking u dry.  I apologize for being blunt but this is what happens, they cycle.  Once u cut him off completely be prepared for an outburst.

I just don't see any reason for him to contact me today, I don't know how he'd open conservation. I think in our conversation yesterday I was quite clear in that I didn't want any friends with benefits kind of thing or something. We both didn't really speak about trying again but I think we both know that that wouldn't work out because too much has happened between us (which he blames me for of course). The fact that we both hate how it turned out doesn't change that I think.

I just can't understand how he'd try again to get me in his bed when he knows that I won't cave.

But you're right, somewhere in my head I want him to reach out. It's weird though, because I also know somewhere in my head that it won't ever be like it was and that our relationship is too broken to ever be mended.

[tlc232]

I had to just drop in here --  it is so (SO) similar to what I have experienced too with exSO (14 years).  I didn't know until I read a lot in here about this "cycling" - but Aiko hit the nail on the head.   It never ends well even when you are sure there is a breakthrough (an agreement to just "be" and I am always on the receiving end with at least one "I can't believe you did this to me".   Very Jekyll/Hyde.    I am in the blocking phase too after 3 mos.   I know that we don't tell others what to do, but 14 years took its toll and only stress and anger (with a very nice, high functioning BPD).   

The more you read articles and other posts you will see that you are not alone at all and this is normal behavior ... .only in their world.    The good news is there are a lot of people out there that are in this with you -- lots to learn and good info to help us understand what we went through.   In my case, I miss the person I "thought" I knew -- you can't have a relationship with just the functioning without the dysfunctional.    I'd love to have the years back and learned this a long time and many frustrating arguments ago how the future would likely unfold.   

 

[enlighten me]

Hi blooming

You mentioned about your ex being calculating. I actually don't think they are calculating but more reactionary. They may start off with an idea of how they want an interaction to go but when their expectations aren't met then they change their tactics. This is where it gets confusing as they can misinterpret what/ how someone/ something was said and form a response based on their feelings.

If your exs intention was to get a sign you where still wanting them and the initial conversation didn't go that way then a change of direction would be put in to gauge your feelings. This is why they go from nice to anger to nice. That and frustration on their behalf.

[Harley Quinn]

I agree with enlighten me.  He was feeling his way through that conversation and it does sound like he was putting feelers out to see whether he might have an opening with you should he need one.  It's all about survival and with the intense fears of abandonment and engulfment, pretty much all of the behaviour is reactionary based on the current emotion. 

Well done for holding on to your boundary around going to see him.  You held your own really well in the conversation and didn't give any false hope of reconciliation - for either him or yourself.  That takes real strength!  You should be proud of yourself for keeping your head - not giving in to the pain and allowing him to coax you into a situation that would likely make things worse for you.

NC and blocking are temporary measures to allow us space and time to detach and heal until we are strong enough to not rely on these.  They are like crutches which we don't want to lean on forever.  It's important that we are actively working through the grief, processing the emotions and working on ourselves to reach a point of indifference, then we are able to handle what comes our way.  If you are able to handle a conversation that might come up in the future without losing sight of your values then blocking isn't essential.  You've already proven to yourself that you can do this and resist the temptation as you are clear on how things would go.  We all heal in our own time, at our own pace, and in our own way.  Not all approaches are one size fits all.  You're doing great.   

Love and light x 

[blooming]

I had to just drop in here --  it is so (SO) similar to what I have experienced too with exSO (14 years).  I didn't know until I read a lot in here about this "cycling" - but Aiko hit the nail on the head.   It never ends well even when you are sure there is a breakthrough (an agreement to just "be" and I am always on the receiving end with at least one "I can't believe you did this to me".   Very Jekyll/Hyde.    I am in the blocking phase too after 3 mos.   I know that we don't tell others what to do, but 14 years took its toll and only stress and anger (with a very nice, high functioning BPD).   

The more you read articles and other posts you will see that you are not alone at all and this is normal behavior ... .only in their world.    The good news is there are a lot of people out there that are in this with you -- lots to learn and good info to help us understand what we went through.   In my case, I miss the person I "thought" I knew -- you can't have a relationship with just the functioning without the dysfunctional.    I'd love to have the years back and learned this a long time and many frustrating arguments ago how the future would likely unfold.   

 

In my case, I miss the person I "thought" I knew -- you can't have a relationship with just the functioning without the dysfunctional. 

That's a really nice way to put it, I relate to that very much.

He hasn't contacted me anymore today by the way, so I don't know when he will again. I just can't imagine him contacting me again when I rejected his offers and he doesn't want a reconcilitation, he just wants to have me in his bed again for a night and to see how much control he still has over me. At least that's what I think.

Do you have any recommendations for good articles? I am a bit lost on this site because there's so much information here.

[blooming]

Hi blooming

You mentioned about your ex being calculating. I actually don't think they are calculating but more reactionary. They may start off with an idea of how they want an interaction to go but when their expectations aren't met then they change their tactics. This is where it gets confusing as they can misinterpret what/ how someone/ something was said and form a response based on their feelings.

If your exs intention was to get a sign you where still wanting them and the initial conversation didn't go that way then a change of direction would be put in to gauge your feelings. This is why they go from nice to anger to nice. That and frustration on their behalf.

Yes this sounds very logical. The thing I don't understand then is that I told him right at the beginning of the conversation that I was still having a hard time, so he knew that I wasn't over him or anything. But still he suddenly got angry? Maybe he wanted me to beg him to come back to him? But that just wouldn't make sense because he knows how much he has hurt me and how my trust in him is damaged. I just don't understand what he wants. Because him saying how much he hates the current situation and how he's angry about the way things went makes me think that he'd be open to reconcilation but then other things he said give very different signals. And then he also just invited me to stay the night in a very rude way, which is not really something you'd do to someone you have the slightest respect for. It hurts that he has lost all respect.

[Harley Quinn]

Something that has been discussed in your thread is NC.  There is a good article here which I found helpful when deciding what was right for myself and establishing what my reasons would be for doing this.  You may find it interesting.  

No Contact -
 the Right Way and the Wrong Way

Another article I recommend often and may have already pointed you to previously is How a Borderline Relationship Evolves.  This helped me to understand some of the patterns of behaviour within my own r/s.  

You can find really useful articles to the right of your screen here   if you look under Self help material in particular, and there is also Clinical information above this that gives all the DSM5 behaviours which make up the diagnostic criteria for BPD.  

Also a great place to read towards your own healing is the Lessons (below the articles).  

Let us know what resonates with you.

Love and light x

[Harley Quinn]

The thing I don't understand then is that I told him right at the beginning of the conversation that I was still having a hard time, so he knew that I wasn't over him or anything. But still he suddenly got angry? Maybe he wanted me to beg him to come back to him? But that just wouldn't make sense because he knows how much he has hurt me and how my trust in him is damaged.

When he is feeling emotionally triggered, he is unable to consider your emotions, only his own.  He had reached out because of a reason unknown to you, and possibly felt desperate.  Unfortunately it sounds that way, as he was willing to try whatever he could think of to make that connection with you, including offering for you to spend the night with him.  In a desperate state, he is empathetically impaired.  His own feelings drive his behaviour.  I hope this helps to explain something of what you experienced. 

Love and light x

[blooming]

I agree with enlighten me.  He was feeling his way through that conversation and it does sound like he was putting feelers out to see whether he might have an opening with you should he need one.  It's all about survival and with the intense fears of abandonment and engulfment, pretty much all of the behaviour is reactionary based on the current emotion. 

Well done for holding on to your boundary around going to see him.  You held your own really well in the conversation and didn't give any false hope of reconciliation - for either him or yourself.  That takes real strength!  You should be proud of yourself for keeping your head - not giving in to the pain and allowing him to coax you into a situation that would likely make things worse for you.

NC and blocking are temporary measures to allow us space and time to detach and heal until we are strong enough to not rely on these.  They are like crutches which we don't want to lean on forever.  It's important that we are actively working through the grief, processing the emotions and working on ourselves to reach a point of indifference, then we are able to handle what comes our way.  If you are able to handle a conversation that might come up in the future without losing sight of your values then blocking isn't essential.  You've already proven to yourself that you can do this and resist the temptation as you are clear on how things would go.  We all heal in our own time, at our own pace, and in our own way.  Not all approaches are one size fits all.  You're doing great.   

Love and light x 

Thank you for your lovely reply and also your compliment! I guess I handled the conversation in the best way I could at the moment. I didn't get angry back at him or let him notice how much his snide comments really hurt me. And I didn't give in to the tempation of seeing him. It was very hard to do though. It felt like playing a part, a part I know I should play but I don't really want to play. Quite exhausting actually. It just hurts so much knowing he has lost all respect for me and can speak to me in this manner. I just don't understand what he wants.

You held your own really well in the conversation and didn't give any false hope of reconciliation - for either him or yourself.

That's true, but maybe I regret that? Maybe I should've said that I would want to try again or that I would still be open for a reconciliation. Not for just casually spending a night at his place in his bed, but actually trying again. I just think that he doesn't want that.

[Harley Quinn]

Maybe I should've said that I would want to try again or that I would still be open for a reconciliation. Not for just casually spending a night at his place in his bed, but actually trying again. I just think that he doesn't want that.

How do you see that going?  This last conversation might give you some clues.

Love and light x

[blooming]

How do you see that going?  This last conversation might give you some clues.

Love and light x

I really don't know. At least I know he's frustrated about what happened and hates it and would have liked it if the situation were different (so that we'd still be together). But I don't think he's open for reconciliation, it didn't really sound like that.

And the last two times we tried he seemed like a different person after a week or so. The first week was like the old days and then he started to distance himself from me, make a lot of snide remarks toward me and just be irritated by me a lot. I'd be scared that that would happen again and that I'd be walking on eggshells all the time again. But I just can't get the first year of our relationship out of my head.

What clues do you think the conversation gives?

[Harley Quinn]

From what I understand of your conversation he seemed very normal and calm at first. When that didn't achieve the response he hoped for he became frustrated and angry, then attempted a different approach and ended by treating you disrespectfully.  Looking at this from a helicopter perspective it struck me that the conversation seemed almost like a potted recycle in it's stages.

Have you read much about recycles here? I'm on my phone so will come back to you with links that may be of interest. I'd also point you to the last paragraph of the article I shared on How a Borderline Relationship Relationship Evolves.

What do you feel would be different if you gave it another try and why?

Love and light x

[blooming]

From what I understand of your conversation he seemed very normal and calm at first. When that didn't achieve the response he hoped for he became frustrated and angry, then attempted a different approach and ended by treating you disrespectfully.  Looking at this from a helicopter perspective it struck me that the conversation seemed almost like a potted recycle in it's stages.

Have you read much about recycles here? I'm on my phone so will come back to you with links that may be of interest. I'd also point you to the last paragraph of the article I shared on How a Borderline Relationship Relationship Evolves.

What do you feel would be different if you gave it another try and why?

Love and light x

But what do you think is the response he hoped for? But you're right, my therapist said the same yesterday, it's almost like a mini recycle in one conversation.

I haven't read much on recycles, I really should read more on this website, maybe that would help me. I did read the last paragraph of that article and it sounded quite familiar. My ex sometimes got really angry/irritated because I was looking at him for too long too, just like in the article. I think the difference between our relationship and the one in the article is that I'd never let it turn into a fight, because I never ever got angry back at him. I just let him say his mean words and waited till the storm had passed, just like I did in our conversation on Thursday. He really couldn't handle this in the end though, said he felt like he could never win from me and that I was always above him in those conversations.

I am not sure if it would be different because he is just so unpredictable. Maybe, because now there's been a longer time inbetween for us both to think things over (last time we broke up was January 5th, and this is the only conversation we've had in that time, so almost 5 weeks of NC) it might be different. But guessing from this conversation he is still very angry with me and hasn't forgiven me (even though I think it's a bit unfair that he's blaming me for everything, since he did things wrong too and especially in our reconciliation attempts he was the one who distanced himself and didn't really want to give it his best). I just really don't understand why he would tell me that he's still hurting and he doesn't know if he'll make it on his own and that he hates what has happened. I don't know what to do with this information.

[Harley Quinn]

It is confusing, yes.  We have all been there at points in and out of these relationships.  There can be many mixed signals.  What's important is to look at the behaviour, not the words.  Often they do not match up.

I remember at one point suddenly realising that I was viewing the relationship as though there were two emotionally healthy adults in it and that was why I was confused by my ex's behaviour.  Of course what I expected someone would do in a given situation wasn't going to be his behaviour.  He has a mental illness and his brain simply isn't wired like others.  A pwBPD lacks the relationship skills to have a healthy and normally functional relationship. 

Your ex is reacting to his own internal state, which is triggered by his needs around self preservation, which can be very different to yours or mine.  Much of his behaviour is not in fact about you, but about his illness and the maladaptive coping mechanisms he employs to manage his emotional reactions to his own perceptions of things.  It can take us a while to get to grips with this.

I helped myself to understand this by using an analogy.  It's a little like seeing a tiger and thinking 'that's a lovely tiger but what I really want is a dog.  Maybe if I pet it like a dog and give it dog food, it will come for walks with me and won't bite.'  The tiger might go along with it for a bit, but in the end a tiger is a tiger.  We need to accept that it will never be a dog.

With that in mind, and in answer to your question around what he was looking for in reaching out to you, it sounds as though he was testing the water for a potential recycle.

I just really don't understand why he would tell me that he's still hurting and he doesn't know if he'll make it on his own and that he hates what has happened.

I'd say this was your biggest clue to that.  When it comes to understanding recycles I think that this summarises some of the reasons why very well:

It is hard for us to understand why our partner is expressing an interest after they left in a torrent of bad behavior (e.g., cheating, raging and telling us that we are a horrible people).  "If they don't love me, why this?"  The answer is much of the same reasons as we have... .plus a few others that are related to the disorder.
 
Inability to deal with acute loneliness

Severe insecurity / needing validation (from someone that highly values them)

Shame / wanting to prove they are a good person (to us or themselves)

Immaturity/Manipulation/Control - the break-up was just a way to get their way.

I hear you holding out a little hope that things might be somewhat different if you were to reconcile now, as your NC has been longer than before.  From what you go on to say, he is still projecting blame onto you and there is no reason to think in that time that he has taken any steps to work on himself. 

BPD takes a great deal of acceptance, commitment and work to recover from.  A sufferer can learn new ways of coping and, if motivated to apply these consistently, become able to manage their emotional reactions in a healthier way.  This can take years and does not guarantee success.  What you would be entering into at present is more of what you've already experienced.  It's important to have realistic expectations.  From what you say, things were good for the first week on other occasions that you reconciled, then he reverted to poor behaviour and devaluation of you. 

However if you want to try again to repair the relationship I'd encourage you to take the following onboard:

If You Want to Stay in the Relationship: The ability to end break-up/make-up cycles and stay in a relationship takes a deep commitment by both partners.  This often means structured rehabilitation (counseling, workshops, classes, self-help programs, etc.).
 
If you are both open to restarting the relationship, remember the problem isn't going to go away without work. Hope is not enough (on both sides).
 
You may believe that your partner has changed, will change, is sincere this time, will get into treatment if only you come back. They may believe that you changed.  But unless there is specific work on some serious level going on - don't count on it.

The above quotes are taken from a workshop on relationship recycling from this site.  You can read the full workshop HERE.

How do you feel overall about what you would like to happen next for yourself blooming?  Would you say your priority is detaching and healing, or making another attempt at salvaging the relationship?  We will support you here either way, and there is help available elsewhere on the site for members who wish to try and make a BPD relationship work.   

Love and light x

[blooming]

With that in mind, and in answer to your question around what he was looking for in reaching out to you, it sounds as though he was testing the water for a potential recycle.

It could be, but if he would want to recycle then he didn't really use the right tactic. Why would he try to provoke me then or say that it there was no point in saying that he didn't feel like he could make it on his own or that he hates what has happened? He also said that if I felt like drinking coffee with him I could just ask, but it's not like he really said that he was open for reconciliation or that he really wanted to see me. And if that was the case, wouldn't he have contacted me again in these past days?

Inability to deal with acute loneliness

Severe insecurity / needing validation (from someone that highly values them)

Shame / wanting to prove they are a good person (to us or themselves)

Immaturity/Manipulation/Control - the break-up was just a way to get their way.

I don't think the first reason is the case, since he's already dating other women, so I don't think he's really lonely. The second could be the case, especially because he said to me in that conversation that he wasn't a strong person at all and that he couldn't make it on his own. The third reason would be a bit odd, since he wasn't really behaving like a good person haha. He is quite manipulative (this is the word other exes of him use to describe him), so the fourth reason might be true as well.

I hear you holding out a little hope that things might be somewhat different if you were to reconcile now, as your NC has been longer than before.  From what you go on to say, he is still projecting blame onto you and there is no reason to think in that time that he has taken any steps to work on himself. 

BPD takes a great deal of acceptance, commitment and work to recover from.  A sufferer can learn new ways of coping and, if motivated to apply these consistently, become able to manage their emotional reactions in a healthier way.  This can take years and does not guarantee success.  What you would be entering into at present is more of what you've already experienced.  It's important to have realistic expectations.  From what you say, things were good for the first week on other occasions that you reconciled, then he reverted to poor behaviour and devaluation of you. 

I don't think he would be open to working on himself, because he doesn't want to know that something is wrong with him. I think he does realise it deep down, because he has said to me multiple times that his relationships always end bad and are full of break-ups because of his "bad trait". And he has said that he doesn't know how to stay happy with someone for a long time and that he just can't finish anything. But when I proposed that it might be a good idea to talk to someone about how he's feeling, he said that that was "not for him". So I have no idea how I could make him see that he could change his behaviour. He blames everything on me and doesn't want to know his part in the break-up, he is running away from it by engaging in new relationships/dates with other women And then he feels again like he does at the beginning of every relationship and he convinces himself that there's nothing wrong with him. At least that's how I think his mind might work.

How do you feel overall about what you would like to happen next for yourself blooming?  Would you say your priority is detaching and healing, or making another attempt at salvaging the relationship?  We will support you here either way, and there is help available elsewhere on the site for members who wish to try and make a BPD relationship work.

All I know is that I miss him immensely and that I would give everything in the world to have him back the way things used to be. But I also know that the two times we tried to reconcile things were very different from our first one-year relationship. That his behaviour towards me had changed and that I was walking on egg shells all the time around him. I'm just scared that if we would try again, his behaviour would be like that again. I just don't think he can every respect me again like he used to. Things changed for the worse when I was in hospital for a week. He couldn't handle this and downloaded a dating app and started talking to a girl on there and exchanged numbers with her and had a really flirty conversation with her and even talked about meeting her (I found out about it before that happened). He said it was because he couldn't handle the stress and I wasn't there for him enough and it was all about me and he just needed some easy contact and attention. A week after I found out about he broke up with me for the first time, saying I was selfish/jealous etc. I think he also couldn't handle the fact that I needed some time to trust him again. He didn't think that dating app was a big deal so he didn't understand why I thought it was.

But I really think he isn't open for a true reconciliation, otherwise he would contact me more I guess. Or try harder.

[Harley Quinn]

Blooming, what is important to you in a relationship?  I think that might be a good place to start. 

What you are describing here doesn't sound very positive for a happy future if you consider his stance on things.  He isn't interested in seeking treatment.  He craves attention and will seek it elsewhere if he's not getting it to the degree he expects.  He projects blame onto you for everything and doesn't accept any responsibility for his behaviour.  He says he doesn't know how to remain happy in a relationship and can't make one last.  His ex partners describe him as manipulative.  He was unable to empathise with you when you were in hospital.  The idealisation stage becomes shorter each recycle before the devaluation stage kicks in. 

Does this sound like the type of relationship you would want to continue in?  How long is it now that you've been split up this last time around?

I know it's incredibly hard when we miss our ex partner and the idealisation stage when things were so good.  You're not alone there.  We've all either been there or are in that place right now.  We hold one another up here and support one another through this difficult and painful time.  Keep posting and join others' threads.  There is much to be learned from others' experiences.   

Love and light x

[tiki]

You sound so sane and so calm. I’m only dealing with this but I’ve been driven crazy. I just have to say reading your posts sounds like the crazyist thing I’ve ever read because it’s so sane.

I feel like you’re analyzing his words like a sane person. Do these words even mean anything. There is an impulsively that makes words that mean something at the time not mean something later. How we feel is how we feel. And we stand behind it. I don’t really think it’s the same here.

Also from an outside perspective you sound like you still have a vulnerability to him that may very well end up with you getting together again with him. You’re wondering if he even wants you anymore. That doubt will lead you back to him even more.

He still wants you in my opinion. He offered you his bed.

You sound so sane that I would think you’re probably better off taking that and not risking being driven insane. There are many people in this world that will appreciate such a calm sane take. He doesn’t appreciate it. He feels belittled by it.

[blooming]

Blooming, what is important to you in a relationship?  I think that might be a good place to start. 

What you are describing here doesn't sound very positive for a happy future if you consider his stance on things.  He isn't interested in seeking treatment.  He craves attention and will seek it elsewhere if he's not getting it to the degree he expects.  He projects blame onto you for everything and doesn't accept any responsibility for his behaviour.  He says he doesn't know how to remain happy in a relationship and can't make one last.  His ex partners describe him as manipulative.  He was unable to empathise with you when you were in hospital.  The idealisation stage becomes shorter each recycle before the devaluation stage kicks in. 

Does this sound like the type of relationship you would want to continue in?  How long is it now that you've been split up this last time around?

I know it's incredibly hard when we miss our ex partner and the idealisation stage when things were so good.  You're not alone there.  We've all either been there or are in that place right now.  We hold one another up here and support one another through this difficult and painful time.  Keep posting and join others' threads.  There is much to be learned from others' experiences.   

Love and light x

Thank you for summing that all up for me, when you read it like that it sounds so ridiculous that I would still take him back if he would really ask me (and not just try to get me in his bed, because that's something very different than rekindling a relationship, he actually has a history of keeping some of his exes on a leash, convincing them time and time again to meet up with him to have sex and giving them just enough hope for a reconciliation. he has actually done this with one ex while he was in a relationship, but he said to that ex that he was single and not ready for a relationship).

We've been split up since the 5th of January and have spoken only once (the conversation this topic is about) in that time. So I really don't think he'd want a real reconciliation otherwise he would've contacted me more or said different things.

Hugs for you too! Thank you for being so sweet and for responding to all my struggles!

[blooming]

You sound so sane and so calm. I’m only dealing with this but I’ve been driven crazy. I just have to say reading your posts sounds like the crazyist thing I’ve ever read because it’s so sane.

I feel like you’re analyzing his words like a sane person. Do these words even mean anything. There is an impulsively that makes words that mean something at the time not mean something later. How we feel is how we feel. And we stand behind it. I don’t really think it’s the same here.

Also from an outside perspective you sound like you still have a vulnerability to him that may very well end up with you getting together again with him. You’re wondering if he even wants you anymore. That doubt will lead you back to him even more.

He still wants you in my opinion. He offered you his bed.

You sound so sane that I would think you’re probably better off taking that and not risking being driven insane. There are many people in this world that will appreciate such a calm sane take. He doesn’t appreciate it. He feels belittled by it.

Hi tiki!

Thank you for your response. Why is it crazy to read how sane I am? I guess it's mostly that I just hate hate hate conflict so I try to avoid it as much as possible.

What do you think is not the same here? That he doesn't stand behind his words?

Yes I guess I still want him, but only in the form of a relationship, not just as someone I go to sleep with once in a while. And I think that's what he wants, I don't think he actually really wants to reconciliate, but he just wants me back in his bed. That hurts.

The weird thing is that he actually told me that reacting the way I'm doing to his outbursts is the best way to go, because if I got angry back at him it would just feed his anger even more. So I don't really understand why he can't handle it, if it is the way he wants it to be.

[tiki]

Hi tiki!

Thank you for your response. Why is it crazy to read how sane I am? I guess it's mostly that I just hate hate hate conflict so I try to avoid it as much as possible.

What do you think is not the same here? That he doesn't stand behind his words?

Yes I guess I still want him, but only in the form of a relationship, not just as someone I go to sleep with once in a while. And I think that's what he wants, I don't think he actually really wants to reconciliate, but he just wants me back in his bed. That hurts.

The weird thing is that he actually told me that reacting the way I'm doing to his outbursts is the best way to go, because if I got angry back at him it would just feed his anger even more. So I don't really understand why he can't handle it, if it is the way he wants it to be.

Hi!

Sorry I’m not really qualified to give advice. I read some of the advice people gave you and woah it’s brilliant. I’m just in it and suffering.

I read about the hospital thing. That’s horrible. You were in the hospital. And then to blame you.

[blooming]

Hi!

Sorry I’m not really qualified to give advice. I read some of the advice people gave you and woah it’s brilliant. I’m just in it and suffering.

I read about the hospital thing. That’s horrible. You were in the hospital. And then to blame you.

No problem tiki! Yeah that wasn’t very nice of him, it wasn’t like I could do anything about being in hospital. But he said that it happened because I was too busy, that’s why I got ill. He always said I sisn’t Have enough time for him and he wasn’t my priority. But it is normal to expect that I should always be available to him right? It is normal to have other hobbits and friends and not spend Evert evenkng with your partner, especially if you’re A student like I am.

[tiki]

No problem tiki! Yeah that wasn’t very nice of him, it wasn’t like I could do anything about being in hospital. But he said that it happened because I was too busy, that’s why I got ill. He always said I sisn’t Have enough time for him and he wasn’t my priority. But it is normal to expect that I should always be available to him right? It is normal to have other hobbits and friends and not spend Evert evenkng with your partner, especially if you’re A student like I am.

It’s not normal. The fact that you even have to ask yourself that question sucks. I can’t even.

You’re too good for him. Be with someone who appreciates you.

Someday when you’re looking good look at yourselves in the mirror and look at your eyes and look at the person you’ve cultivated. Think about how you would never blame someone for something and how aware of your actions you are.

Recently I caught a glimpse of myself in a mirror and it helped me to see it that way. Because I’ve put so much work into myself and spending time trying to cultivate positivity. I saw things I liked in my eyes. The hopefulness and light. I sound crazy. I’m going through something.  But It was like really you’re going to be destroyed by someone who doesn’t want to work on themselves.

How well were you functioning when all that bad stuff in your relationship was going on? It must have been pretty hard, right? Was it beginning to interfere with your life?