What I've learned about myself 3+ years post-relationship

[Depression = 72% of members]

This post could be a bit unusual and I hope that I've selected the right drop down.  It's been a long time since I posted.  This site was instrumental in getting me through the end of a nearly 19 year marriage to someone who was diagnosed.  Very long and sordid personal history -- I do not blame her.  In a sense, she probably couldn't be any way other than she is, given what's happened to her in her life.  But now, all of that is academic.

Got into a relationship with another woman, somewhat older than me, after my ex and I agreed to divorce but even before the actual divorce was instituted.  I am happy to say that it is very rewarding, she (my girlfriend) and I both have talked about how good it is on every level.  We see each other quite a lot, too. 

What I've learned about myself:

I can become very emotionally attached to a woman.  I want to make clear that I don't believe that this particular woman, as wonderful as she is, is the "only one for me."  I know that I could probably be happy with many other women.  However, I feel like I don't want anyone else, and if I were to be with someone else, there's a good chance that I'd spend part of every day wishing she were the woman I'm with now.  Other women do not interest me at all -- I do not even feel curious about them -- though other women ALWAYS interested me during my marriage (merely interested me; I was happily faithful to my ex before we agreed to be divorced). 

I have come to believe, over the past few months, that I've been a player of the game almost all of my life.  I first developed an intense interest in girls when I was in 2nd grade, and by 4th grade, girls were on my mind all of the time.  By the time I was in 6th grade, I began to wonder what it would be like to have children with my female classmates.  I don't know if I am different from others in this regard... .maybe I am.  I know plenty of college men (boys?) who seem to have zero interest in women.  By the time I was in college, I was doing things like driving from NYC to Canada to spend the night with my girlfriend.  But I know now -- and perhaps the relationship with my girlfriend has shown me this -- that, without consciously realizing it, I have always been playing a game where women are concerned.  I no longer believe that I was nobly dealing with my ex wife's BPD.  I know there were times when I capitalized on it and fed into it.  It was a contest. In practical terms, what all of this meant for me was that I never had much at stake in a relationship. I think that's the sum of it -- I very deliberately never had much at stake. 

What this realization has done to me, I am not yet fully sure.  I feel, for this first time in my life, vulnerable (very vulnerable) in my relationship with my girlfriend.  We're in our 4th year together.  It is only now, as we enter the 4th year, that I feel this way.  I believe that people move and duck and spar with each other without realizing it, and it's only now that I see this.  I think that right up until a few months ago, I was playing a sort of game even with her.   

This vulnerability feels both exhilarating and frightening.  I could never go back to the way I viewed things before.  But I also know that she could really break my heart.  She is possibly the only woman I've known who has this power.  It takes guts to genuinely care about another person.

   

[goateeki]

This post could be a bit unusual and I hope that I've selected the right drop down.  It's been a long time since I posted.  This site was instrumental in getting me through the end of a nearly 19 year marriage to someone who was diagnosed.  Very long and sordid personal history -- I do not blame her.  In a sense, she probably couldn't be any way other than she is, given what's happened to her in her life.  But now, all of that is academic.

Got into a relationship with another woman, somewhat older than me, after my ex and I agreed to divorce but even before the actual divorce was instituted.  I am happy to say that it is very rewarding, she (my girlfriend) and I both have talked about how good it is on every level.  We see each other quite a lot, too. 

What I've learned about myself:

I can become very emotionally attached to a woman.  I want to make clear that I don't believe that this particular woman, as wonderful as she is, is the "only one for me."  I know that I could probably be happy with many other women.  However, I feel like I don't want anyone else, and if I were to be with someone else, there's a good chance that I'd spend part of every day wishing she were the woman I'm with now.  Other women do not interest me at all -- I do not even feel curious about them -- though other women ALWAYS interested me during my marriage (merely interested me; I was happily faithful to my ex before we agreed to be divorced). 

I have come to believe, over the past few months, that I've been a player of the game almost all of my life.  I first developed an intense interest in girls when I was in 2nd grade, and by 4th grade, girls were on my mind all of the time.  By the time I was in 6th grade, I began to wonder what it would be like to have children with my female classmates.  I don't know if I am different from others in this regard... .maybe I am.  I know plenty of college men (boys?) who seem to have zero interest in women.  By the time I was in college, I was doing things like driving from NYC to Canada to spend the night with my girlfriend.  But I know now -- and perhaps the relationship with my girlfriend has shown me this -- that, without consciously realizing it, I have always been playing a game where women are concerned.  I no longer believe that I was nobly dealing with my ex wife's BPD.  I know there were times when I capitalized on it and fed into it.  It was a contest. In practical terms, what all of this meant for me was that I never had much at stake in a relationship. I think that's the sum of it -- I very deliberately never had much at stake. 

What this realization has done to me, I am not yet fully sure.  I feel, for this first time in my life, vulnerable (very vulnerable) in my relationship with my girlfriend.  We're in our 4th year together.  It is only now, as we enter the 4th year, that I feel this way.  I believe that people move and duck and spar with each other without realizing it, and it's only now that I see this.  I think that right up until a few months ago, I was playing a sort of game even with her.   

This vulnerability feels both exhilarating and frightening.  I could never go back to the way I viewed things before.  But I also know that she could really break my heart.  She is possibly the only woman I've known who has this power.  It takes guts to genuinely care about another person.

   

[ArleighBurke]

Have you read "No more Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover?

I've read a lot of material about relationships in the last few years, and intensely wanting/needing a woman *could* be a sign of codependency, or trying to get that "motherly" love/protection from someone. You identify you had that need from a very young age which may be significant.

Or maybe it's not a problem! I think so long as you don't lose yourself, as long as you have healthy boundaries, then why is it a problem?

[calledandchosen]

Goateeki,

I can relate to what you're saying. But something still beckons me to ask you, are you sure you are in love with this new person?  If you feel at all confused about a relationship, cut out the sex for a while and see what happens. 

For me, it really clarifies things.

[gotbushels]

Hi goateeki 

... .  This site was instrumental in getting me through the end of a nearly 19 year marriage to someone who was diagnosed.  ... .  In a sense, she probably couldn't be any way other than she is, given what's happened to her in her life.  But now, all of that is academic.

Well done on getting this far in the post-relationship process after the end of the marriage.  I don't think it's easy to reach the stage where you see how the history of the partner led to things, so I want to hold that out.   

... .  I am happy to say that it is very rewarding, she (my girlfriend) and I both have talked about how good it is on every level.  We see each other quite a lot, too. 

We're in our 4th year together.

I'm sure there were issues here and there, but it's good to see that you're finding it to be a very rewarding relationship. I think it took some work to get there, so well done.  I think you are one of two people who know by now how to get through issues in your relationship, so I do cautiously encourage you to continue how you're doing this.

In practical terms, what all of this meant for me was that I never had much at stake in a relationship. I think that's the sum of it -- I very deliberately never had much at stake. 

Sometimes, when people want to shield themselves from getting hurt emotionally, they'll keep their emotions in check through the relationship.

I feel, for this first time in my life, vulnerable (very vulnerable) in my relationship ... .

This vulnerability feels both exhilarating and frightening. 

This might seem like a silly question, but why do you feel vulnerable?

Thank you for sharing and I hope you have peace in this. Good luck! 

[goateeki]

Arleigh, calledandchosen -- Thanks.  I think that it's important for me to make clear that, by most measures, I'm a fairly on-top-of-it, successful guy.  I'm fully engaged, diligent, etc.  I think that in wanting her as much as I do, it's only an extension of my personality generally. She tells me that I'm the most disciplined person she's ever met (I just think I'm a regular guy).  I've always been enthusiastic, about many things.  Family and co-workers have said things like "You don't do anything by halves."  

But I also know that even in my earliest memories, I found women sort of enchanting.  Maybe the "hetero" dial in my brain has always been stuck at 11.  I feel like my entire life has been pointed toward women.  (My brother has said the same thing of himself, incidentally.)  

Calledandchosen, I'm confident that this is the real thing. I continue to be impressed by just how much of me is at play in the relationship, all the time. It's always dynamic, she is always new to me.  She so obviously wants me, in every way.  I also feel like nothing is set in stone, and the relationship could go away at some point.  She says some incredibly candid, self aware things to me, the kind of things that cause you to pause and think, "Wow."  I admit that I am drawn in by this.  And I think that I should be -- it's attractive to me.  

Here is my problem:  Along with this vulnerability, I feel like I want more.  More of what, I cannot say.  I don't know what more looks like -- there is so much abundance in this relationship.  This bothers me a little, as if realizing that I cannot play games with her (and don't want to) causes me to pick and roll and find some other angle to work.  Even as I participate in the best relationship of my life, I am aware of the tendencies in all of us that can cause things to go terribly wrong.

Also, I have cut out the sex for a while.  :)idn't alter my feelings for her.  :)idn't last long, either, because she came after me (another first in my life).

The human heart is a convoluted thing.  

[goateeki]

Gotbushels, here's a great observation you've made (and you're right): "I'm sure there were issues here and there, but it's good to see that you're finding it to be a very rewarding relationship."  Yes, we have had a few dust ups, and one was major.  We were apart for about a month a few years ago.  She understands my view of that event, and I understand hers.  We learned a lot about ourselves and each other.  There was a breach, and we repaired the breach. 

I feel vulnerable because for the first time in my life, I really do have something at risk.  I think that if things were to end, the world would seem emptier for me.  I think I could be with another woman, but I know that I'd look in her eyes and see nothing there.  I would miss so much about her -- her voice, the smell of her, everything.  I've been with a fair number of women in my life, and none of these thoughts ever crossed my mind.

We were in bed the other night, and talking.  I said to her something like, "It's a strange feeling, knowing someone's got your number. This hasn't happened before." She said,"I like feeling that I do. And you have mine. This is it for me."  It was almost uncomfortably honest and real, and again -- she speaks with a confidence I haven't encountered in any other woman.

The whole thing is quite intoxicating.   

[gotbushels]

Yes, we have had a few dust ups, and one was major. 
... .
We were apart for about a month a few years ago.  She understands my view of that event, and I understand hers.  We learned a lot about ourselves and each other.  There was a breach, and we repaired the breach. 

I do think part of what makes a good relationship different from the one involving a pwBPD is that the recollection about how difficult issues that come out are held in the appropriate context. E.g., 1 person does something unwanted--and it's what it is, it's not "no big deal" because one person makes it so. So seeing that it 1 difficult thing isn't glossed over--I think that's a good sign.

It's good that you've both the patience and kindness with each other enough to look past your own understandings to find out the other person's. Well done on the repair work together. 

Thank you for sharing your description of your feelings for her. It's quite poetic. 

I feel vulnerable because for the first time in my life, I really do have something at risk. 

Are you able to identify what is this something? Is it a thing, feelings, event, what's it about? I'll share here that in a relationship not with the pwBPD, that I did enjoy her company, and the experience of being with her, just relaxing or passing time. I would feel at a loss if the relationship were to end, and that ability to lose something meaningful does make me feel a quite vulnerable. If I were to dial-up the enjoyment or sense of loss--then I would feel more vulnerable.

We were in bed the other night, and talking.  I said ... .She said,"I like feeling that I do. And you have mine. ... .It was almost uncomfortably honest ... .

It seems you guys are sharing the same feelings around commitment. It seems you guys are being sincere with each other here.

I don't want to jump the gun here, I think this quality distinguishing a without-pwBPD relationship and a relationship with a pwBPD might be helpful to you. I'm not a T, so this is just a personal view on this.

In a without-pwBPD relationship, I think it's possible to understand that this person means something to you--and vice versa. To you, she's someone consistent, she's a constant thing, she's shown outwardly that she values the relationship. Then, if you add in the idea of reciprocity, then you can expect that she would feel close to how you feel. You might also mean so much to her that she would also feel at a loss. I think with a relationship with a pwBPD, the massive uncertainty about a reciprocal feeling prevents the relationship's growth.

I think this idea is hopeful for you because from there you can derive a sense of comfort that this person isn't going to do something silly because of "the BPD" or something like that. I think you can get some comfort from that--amidst your feelings of vulnerability.  It's the fact that we have a relationship with someone reliable, that we see more signs that risk-taking is a safe and rewarding thing (rather than a punishing thing), I think that can be disconcerting for someone going from a pwBPD relationship to one that looks healthier.

[davies]

Also, I have cut out the sex for a while.  :)idn't alter my feelings for her.  :)idn't last long, either, because she came after me (another first in my life).

My thoughts exactly!

[Bo123]

For some there is an extreme attraction to what we can't have, the"Forbidden Fruit".  And the guys that are like that I've known all disagree they are like that, but a month later... .
It's vet good that you went into as much depth about yourself as you did, that was brave.

[Jeffree]

There are things that happen in our lives that shed a whole new light on our actions with people. It sounds as though this newfound vulnerability with your current GF is making your actions in the context of your marriage make a different sense... .this idea that you weren't as emotionally invested with her. Perhaps that was your nature, or perhaps it was you protecting yourself emotionally from her madness because to fully invest yourself with someone like her for 19 years would be extremely dangerous to your psyche.

But I can relate to this idea that with your ex wife your thoughts still wandered about other women whereas with your GF if they do you see that as your problem. I had that same dynamic with my ex wife and now STBx. First wife I wasn't incredibly attracted to physically and man did my mind wander to the point where I even had a slip up with a woman who pursued me at a trade show one time. On the other hand, my STBx was everything I could have ever imagined for physically. Not one woman I met in all the time we were together caused me to wonder anything other than how perfectly attracted to her I was.

Now? I'm in complete limbo and don't even know what a relationship should look like for me.

J

[goateeki]

In a without-pwBPD relationship, I think it's possible to understand that this person means something to you--and vice versa. To you, she's someone consistent, she's a constant thing, she's shown outwardly that she values the relationship. Then, if you add in the idea of reciprocity, then you can expect that she would feel close to how you feel. You might also mean so much to her that she would also feel at a loss. I think with a relationship with a pwBPD, the massive uncertainty about a reciprocal feeling prevents the relationship's growth.

This is such a good way of putting it, especially the last sentence.  I don't know if my older posts here still exist, but my ex wife (we've known each other since she was 18, we are still friends) was actually diagnosed, and it was only after we were married that two very bad events in her teen years were revealed to me.  Over the course of our marriage, I tried hard to convince myself that the absence of reciprocity was normal in marriages -- that's how adaptive I was.  I expected less and less and less, until I realized it was going to lead to terminal unhappiness.  It certainly did prevent growth.

The woman I'm with now regularly cuddles into my arm at night, puts her arm around me and falls asleep with her head resting on my chest.  I still sometimes have a hard time believing it's real. But it feels wonderful.

[ArleighBurke]

After I separated from my wife, I was *amazed* at the women I dated. They seemed to all ENJOY kissing, and WANT to be close/intimate and touching me. For the first few women I thought I'd found these special one-of-a-kind women.

But over time I realised that these were just "normal" women. That it's very normal for your partner to enjoy you, and that my ex-wife was the one with not-normal behaviours. Being with her completely altered my view of what to expect.

[gotbushels]

... .especially the last sentence. 

Thank you goateeki--I'm glad to see it was useful to you too. It felt really real to me, that feeling. Because when you don't feel trust, then you try and make it up without a lot of the foundation of a healthy relationship, things just get worse. They did for me anyway. I'm glad I can share this strange feeling with you.

... .I tried hard to convince myself that the absence of reciprocity was normal in marriages -- that's how adaptive I was.

I do want to hold this out. I do think it takes a tremendous amount of willpower and adaptation to get through some things with a pwBPD. I encourage you to see that it is a quality that you possessed and possess, and you can use that to get through other struggles you might face. To go a little further--I mean it takes a lot of willpower to try to subvert/bypass/recreate a natural law, and I do humbly think reciprocity is one of them.

The woman I'm with now regularly cuddles into my arm at night, puts her arm around me and falls asleep with her head resting on my chest.  I still sometimes have a hard time believing it's real. But it feels wonderful.

Yes, we are so, so, so tremendously blessed to have wonderful healthy others blessed into our lives.

After I separated from my wife, I was *amazed* at the women I dated. They seemed to all ENJOY kissing, and WANT to be close/intimate and touching me. For the first few women I thought I'd found these special one-of-a-kind women.

Yes, thanks ArleighBurke for adding more rainbow sprinkles to these things. I want to contribute some here.    I was so relieved/grateful when potential dates showed that they did *not* derive large amounts of pleasure from bodily harm. I remember things like that, and it wasn't really the fun kind either!

[Jeffree]

Where the heck are you meeting these unicorns?

Honestly, reciprocity has been sorely lacking from all my relationships.

J

[gotbushels]

Where the heck are you meeting these unicorns?

Haha I won't speak for the other two lucky fellows, and I think you're underestimating your own efforts.    I like your word too--"unicorns". It reminds me of that gun-totting lawyer's theory on searching for women.