I feel like it's my fault; and I want to fix it; I don't know what to do

[85crt]

Alright I felt like starting a new thread because the questions have changed.  My first thread is here

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=321795.msg12944249#msg12944249

I got involved with a coworker who both admitted she has BPD up front and just got out of a very abusive relationship- one that lasted 2 years and left her needing surgery to repair a broken nose.  That injury literally happened less than 2 months ago.

I laid the story out.  Developed this bond, went on a date that was utterly romantic and amazing... I was head over heels.  Then she started pulling awat until finally she started ignoring me completely and reported me to HR when I asked her to have lunch with me to talk.

I've been all over this board studying splitting and BPD and everything and my problem is... this girl has been nothing but honest and open with me and I feel like I just refused to listen.  I so badly wantes this relationship with her I couldn't do as she wanted and back away.

Now it's true that she went back and forth... let's be casual, Idk if I can followed by let's makeout... but 1 week before the dreaded lunch note she told me to just ignore her and pretend she didn't exist and she was having a very hard time doing it- no eye contact, all over the place, shakey words.

I followed with a few ignored texts the next few days- always just expressing support and that I was still there for her- and then finally slipping her the note and having her obviously freak out.

I'm just like... what is wrong with me?  I realize I have some serious issues with abandonment, idealization, idk all sorts of stuff.  I can't keep blaming myself the past 2 days for really hurting this girl by being pushy and just falling in love with this idea of our magical relationship saving both of us- not just her.  I definitely see her as saving me too.

And I'm just wondering if my first post and all this research isn't almost me trying to make her BPD a scapegoat for my failings. 

And also more i importantly... she does have BPD... and now how is she feeling?  Obviously she split hard... and I just don't know if it's because all the stress plus the added intimacy and potential with me that did it or if I'm just dense and drove her over the edge.

Does she hate me now?  Is there any chance for amends?  Why do I feel like I hurt her worse than her ex who used to hit her every time she cried?

I really wish I knew what she was thinking and could make it right.  I feel terrible.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but she sounds like she is still hurting and not emotionally clear from the last relationship. Put in another way, a lot of what you are seeing is her grieving the loss of her last relationship. It would explain the crying, etc.

When you two connected, she probably thought getting involved might help her, but then found her grief/anger started bubbling up. You probably said and did things that flashed her back to her prior relationship... .

... .and so she wants to turn it all off and doesn't have the best skills or the strength to do this in a more upfront way.

Rebounds are hard on us because we don't see the forces that are driving the other person - we only see our interaction with them and we can think we are driving the ups and downs when we are not.

Your best hope here is to give her the space to work through the pain she is working through. The hardest part is to grasp that the reaching out to her make this worse for her.

She knows you care. She gets that. She just can't engage it right now without bringing up other stuff.

Does this make sense? Does this fit what you are seeing?

[85crt]

Yes it does... that's what I've been concerned about.  I feel like I kinda put blinders on and tried to forge ahead regardless of where she was.

And now I've really messed up and considering she is a pwBPD Idk if or how it can be fixed.

I know there's nothing I can do now.  But in the future.

I'm really just totally beating myself up these past few days because this poor girl... I only made things worse.  I was selfish.  And I want to make it right.  If her BPD screws things up in the future I'll deal with it then.

So idk.  But I can't talk to her now and it sucks because I really think I'm in the wrong.

[Skip]

I'm saying that in a rebound relationship, the original relationship has a lot of bearing on the the outcome of the new relationship... .often far more.

Yes, you could have played this better in hindsight, but we don't have that ability going in. If you encounter a rebound in the future, be careful. Most fail and the person in your role gets hurt.

Whatever pain she has in this is mostly coming from a lot of sources, childhood wounds, the prior relationship. And issues you created can be easily pushed off (because of the newness) and that is what she has done.

She is OK (as it relates to you). She has control of that situation and she has exercised it. She is good (as it relates to you) as long as you give her space.

Do you see what I mean? Its complicated, but you are only a small percent of the battle in her mind and you are the most controllable aspect of it (you've made it clear that she can pull you in or push you away).

The best thing in terms of making her feel better and possibly even re-attacked to you is to be cool, upbeat, confident - not wounded, unsure, needy.

Stand tall with strength. That's attractive. Learn the people skills taught here. That will help in this relationship if it goes another round, or the next.

What lessons/skills do you feel you need to learn?

[BasementDweller]

Don't beat yourself up. You tried to help someone who was going through a very rough time, and you had the best of intentions. You had no idea the depth of what she was experiencing.

She was traumatized and beaten up by the last person who claimed to love her. Regardless of any PD's she may or may not have, nobody deserves that. Chances are, the thought of opening up her heart to someone else probably triggered her fears of being abused or hurt again. To her, nowadays, love = abuse. Chances are her last partner didn't throw a punch at her the first day they met. He probably turned on the charm until she started to trust him, then he turned on her like a rattlesnake. That's what habitual abusers do. Earn your trust, then break your nose.

You happened to come along very shortly after she experienced something horrific. She probably panicked as soon as she began to feel anything at all for you.

You can't change the past, but the best thing you can possibly do in the present is give her her space, leave her alone for a while to nurse her wounds, and know that she does know you care - you made that clear. When and if she is ready to explore that, she very well may. But right now she isn't ready and is probably terrified of getting close to anyone, or letting her guard down.

Have you ever seen a stray dog in a shelter that has been beaten by its previous ownder? An owner that it likely loved despite the cruelty? It tugs at your heart strings like nothing else, and when you see it you want to help, and show it love and kindness. But when you approach, it cowers in the corner trembling, and won't make eye contact. If you persist, it lunges at you and attacks you. Then cowers again, because it fears a retaliatory beating for what it has done... .which was defend itself out of fear. Because fear is the only thing it knows and a hand reaching toward it means hurt is about to happen.

It's exactly like that.

Time and space is the best thing you can give her right now. I agree with Skip that just playing it cool for now is your best aproach. You may find in time she starts talking to you again - but let it be on her terms. (I know it's hard when you just want to help. I totally know.)

[85crt]

It's just awful after everything she confided... she stays up all night... I told her I'll leave my phone on so she could call or text at any point just to vent.  She sleeps all day.  Then comes into work and totally isolates herself and often leaves early to go home to play video games and repeat the cycle.

She spoke to me first... asked me for my number... told me she liked me... and I'm the first to admit I just lost it.  My social skills are pretty good I mean I can always learn more but the biggest issue was not only did I really want to help her but for the 1st time I saw real legitimate potential with her.

And we both daydreamed about all we could do together.  And once you've gotten in that level of thinking its hard to just walk away.

It's nice to hear people tell me she knows I care and she doesn't resent me or hate me.  It's nice to think I can someday try again because we would be great together.  I just feel bad.

I never wanted to contribute to the negativity.

[EdR]

You know... .when I read your posts I feel like I am somewhat staring in a mirror. Like I said in your other thread, you seem like a stand up guy with only the best intentions. However, like people said in that other thread and in this thread as well, backing off is by far the wisest thing to do.
Given the urge to fix things and desire to understand her, I somehow doubt you are able to follow through. Not that I doubt you, but I have been there and still am in a similar situation (minus the romantic involvement that is).

What I identify most with: some members here tend to blame everything on their pwBPD. However, you seem to take every opportunity to justify her behaviour. You even reflect on the potential use of the label of BPD.
I really relate. But I think this is dangerous. I really think so. Just like the pwBPD can NOT be blamed for everything, you can NOT blame yourself for everything either. You cannot absolve her from her sins so to speak.

I really believe you (and I) need to reach that middle ground. Maybe you (I) could have done some things better, but does that really excuse her behaviour? Have you truly done such horrific things? I have read your posts. All of them. If you speak the truth, the answer is a simple and clear cut 'NO'. You are really desperately trying to take the blame away from her to keep the glorious image of her intact. The image you want to go back to.

But consider this:
-) did she really need to report you to HR? Was there no other way? You DID let her know you were there for her and wanted to listen. Couldn't she discuss this with you? Couldn't she just yell at you? Is BPD a 'I just do not function anymore' kind of illness? NO. She still is very much responsible for her actions
-) please consider that she could NOT know HR would take it well. She would have gotten you fired for all she cared at that time.
-) would you tolerate this behaviour from any other human being?
-) can you really trust her after this incident? It is very unlikely that you could talk about something as emotionally loaded as this. It would probably be just like nothing ever happened. But could you live with that? Could you trust her?

Everyone got his or her demons. BPD or not. And maybe they get triggered by your (our?) 'dense personality'. Maybe it makes them feel empty, overwhelmed, sad, etc. etc...
But they are unlike that dog from the previous post. They are not just purely driven by instinct. Although it may not function as well as in our case, they still have the intellectual ability to be a master of their own decisions.

So does this really excuse them from directly attacking someone? (reporting to HR WAS an attack). And do you really have to alter your 'dense/caring personality', because it might trigger SOME people on this planet?

[85crt]

Lots to think about. 

I tend to take all responsibility and blame on to myself.  Like a good QB never blaming his receivers or the play call, I just figure I can handle it.  I tend to absolve not just her but everyone unless I absolutely can't.

I wish I did know exactly what she was thinking or said when she complained.  I can figure she was frustrated and overwhelmed and lashed out... and yea all she had to do was talk to me later.

I think she was thinking she's tried that and I am not listening.  And it's a fair point except until then it had been pretty much back and forth.  I can't but I want to... let's be casual... let's not but do want to makeout... and always because she's no good, not worthy, I deserve to be happy, etc.

Idk.  I'll take it all in.  You guys are great.  This particular reply is really not much new .

I did see her today.  Ran into her in the hall.  She kinda held the door open for me then rushed into the ladies room.  Looked freaked out.  Awkward and I wanted to say hey but couldn't muster a word.  First time seeing her since the lunch note last week.

Later I saw her going to lunch.  I didn't follow of course but it made me sad because I know what she did.  We had a catered meal for employee appreciation but she didn't eat.  Instead I suspect she went down to the empty 2nd floor and spent her whole lunch hiding down there.

Eh... doesn't have to be that way but she makes it that was so... bleh.

[Skip]

I tend to take all responsibility and blame on to myself.  Like a good QB never blaming his receivers or the play call, I just figure I can handle it.  

After clock runs out, you have to let it go.  

Play the season, 85crt, right now she just needs space because of what is hurting her (and you are not at the center of that).

Don't be nervous and awkward at work. Be cool and collected. Say hi, walk on.

[85crt]

You guys were all very helpful on this forum so I feel the need to post an update.

Basically today is 3 weeks since our little incident of me wanting to take lunch together to talk that went awry. 

In that time, HR did indeed give me a "pass"  as she said she understood it wasn't any kind of harassment and there are other factors involved.  Like I told HR lady, I know I could've been cooler about things but when emotions are involved it's easier said than done.

We have crossed paths a few times.  She won't look at me.  I looked at her the first couple but then I started avoiding looking at her too.  Idk why... just so uncomfortable.  She just pretends I don't exist and idk what to do.  Never been in a situation like this.

A couple days ago I was eating lunch and she came real fast into the break room and headed to the restroom.  I saw on her face she was really distraught.  Our job sometimes involves hearing sad things and I figure either she heard something that triggered some pain or she was thinking about something and got overwhelmed.  Our job also affords long periods of silence which can torture over thinkers like her and I.

She passed through and I guess went to the restroom.  Couple minutes later she came into the break room and was filling her water bottle right by where I was seated.  Just looking at her I knew something was wrong and I couldn't just not reach out.

So I just said hey you doing ok?  She looked at me, our first eye contact in 3 weeks, and idk.  It's hard to read into subtle things and we all want to believe what we want but it was definitely a different look.  Shock, nervous, almost happy I spoke, idk.  I don't want to try to analyze it.

But she took a sec and then said yea, you?  I said yea, I'm doing alright and that was it.  Off she went, back to work.

Idk.  Stupid, pointless, long update right ... but that's what it is.  3 weeks of nothing, 1/2 second of hope that may be someday we can speak again.

Is there really no way to fix this?  Is it just over... I don't know.  I really don't want to imagine a life where we never speak and all we have is a few spark filled weeks that ended because she just had to push me away.

[85crt]

Further update... snubbed me twice today.  Both times made eye contact which is new but no words.  I waved the first time to no reply, next time I choked up too and said nothing.

Lol idk.  She sure seems to hate me.  Splits black right?  Smh idk.

Liking someone and caring about them and then having them just over a matter of weeks shut you out to the point they don't even acknowledge your existence sucks.

[BasementDweller]

But they are unlike that dog from the previous post. They are not just purely driven by instinct. Although it may not function as well as in our case, they still have the intellectual ability to be a master of their own decisions.

So does this really excuse them from directly attacking someone? (reporting to HR WAS an attack). And do you really have to alter your 'dense/caring personality', because it might trigger SOME people on this planet?

I'm sorry, but I *somewhat* disagree. Humans do, in fact, act on instinct very frequently, particularly those with emotional disregulation disorders, and just about any living thing that has been abused will instinctively respond in a hypersensitive manner to the threat or even the fear of more abuse - even an otherwise "healthy" person. Does it excuse her actions? No, perhaps not, but is it a contributing factor, that he should be aware of. No matter how capable of higher reasoning you are, if someone takes a swing at you, literally or figuratively - you duck. Especially if it has happened before.

No, he doesn't have to alter his behavior because someone might get triggered, but he does have to be aware that when people get triggered, they can respond in detrimental ways, and there could be backlash. Just because it's not right from a "sense of justice" perspective... .doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

That said, you did well by politely asking if she was ok, and letting it drop there. She answered and you didn't push the issue. It still sounds like she feels uncomfortable, and there also could be other things going on that have nothing to do with you but are upsetting her. pwBPD are really easily overwhelmed and feel a lot of shame. They also often believe that people are better off without them, so they push away those who love them the most. They operate largely on defense mechanisms, as you may have figured out. I suspect that if she feels that you are trying too hard, or have expectations of her, she's going to avoid you, due to a fear of failure or inadequacy - or feeling pressured, even if that's not your intent.

I'll go out on a limb and say I speak from experience. Even as a non BPD female, I am very uncomfortable with any sort of male attention, being looked at, or if I know that a man finds me attractive. I tend to avoid them altogether if that's the case, because I don't like the expectation that they may want more from me, or they might expect reciprocation. Not only am I in a relationship, but even when I was single, I rarely found anyone attractive without there being a solid foundation of trust and friendship there first. And if they made the first move, I would withdraw. There's a number of social reasons for this, but women are raised knowing from a very, very young age to be careful, because some men can be dangerous. Many of us find out the hard way how true that can be. I started getting sexually harassed and propositioned in very vulgar ways by men in the street when I was 11 years old. That was jarring and humiliating, and I didn't even understand it.  And you can't win, because if you acknowledge the attention, you might find yourself in a bad situation, and if you ignore it, you might find the same. Why am I telling you all this? Your friend was beaten by the last man who claimed to love her. Many women, if not most, with BPD were victims of abuse, either sexual, or physical/psychological. Maybe a combination. This goes for men with BPD too. Instinct or not, she has every reason to be fearful and have trust issues. I know it sucks, it's unfortunate, and you don't deserve to be reported to HR or be treated badly by anyone. But if you could try to put yourself in her shoes, there ARE reasons why she acts the way she does, (even aside from BPD) and there may be a lot of patience required on your part if you want the possibility of earning her trust eventually.


If you read through the forum, you'll find it's quite common that a pwBPD will try to reinstate contact with you if you give them their space, and don't come to them. You may find that's the case with her if you do what you were doing before. Just basically (politely) ignore her. Then she won't feel "on the spot"... .does that make sense?

[85crt]

Interesting perspective and makes sense... the frustrating thing about this is she made all the moves first. 

She told me she liked me first.  Asked for my #.  Said she would love to hang out.  But then once it was like ok we are really doing this she would always say things like "do you really think I'm beautiful" and "i have a lot of red flags" and "well I've told you everything if you want to stay it's your call".

I've stressed time and again I like her, I think she's so beautiful, we have a lot in common and it's exciting but I expect nothing.  She always asked "what are you expecting"  and I'd just say I just want to spend time with you... we don't have to have any labels or anything right now.  I'm patient, I just want to spend time.

But here we are .  On our date she told me "don't worry I won't wake up and change my mind".  Then she did .

Idk.  I just hate seeing her now act like I don't exist.  Or look at me and just ignore me altogether like I'm some evil person.

I hope she comes back.  Call me crazy but I hope she comes back somehow.

[85crt]

Ugh... so twice today ran into her.  Once I had to relay a message.  She didn't acknowledge me, just looked away.

Next in the break room and I'm sure I messed up but this is just ridiculous.  I can tell she's having a horrible day emotionally just from her face and some of the stuff she's done.

Well she has some nice cute pink sneakers on and she came thriugh and it was literally just me and her and I just said "hey new shoes?"

Anyway she just walked past.  Left, came back through, back into the main work area.

Totally ignored me.  This is where it's just like what the heck... it's immature and rude but at the same time I know she's hurting and I know I'm partly at fault but I really don't deserve this.

I just wish I knew some way to make it right.  Like she hates my guts right... and why... because I wasn't going to just walk away when she said "you don't want me, forget me" and then the next day would say "let's be casual".  Or because after a week of her just shutting down and ignoring me I got dumb and passed her a note asking for lunch?

I know I'm beating a dead horse.  And there are stories all over this forum way worse.  But I just have no one to vent to.

Everybody just tells me to forget her.  I don't want to.  I don't know if I can.  And seeing her hurt I just want to hold her and make it right but my very existence seems to torture her.

So how do I handle this?  I try hard not to look her way when she passes.  I haven't even been able to choke out a hello until last weeks "you ok". 

I just thought if I made a comment about her shoes... that's innocent enough.  It was just her and me.  Maybe she didn't hear.  Doubt it. 

Idk.  I need guidance because this sucks.  I feel like she'll just go down as a really crappy painful "what could have been" chapter and I just cannot accept that.

[BasementDweller]

I understand how confusing and frustrating this must be... .and it's really hard to be able to fathom from the perspective of a non, how pwBPD think sometimes. What you describe as her making the first move, coming on strong, then abruptly pulling away is the classic BPD push/pull behavior. They desperately crave love and validation, but struggle with fears of abandonment and feelings of shame and inadequacy, making it hard for them to trust in anything or anyone. It's extremely challenging to those of us who can't figure out why the hell everything has to be so complicated and stressful.

You may have noticed in the early stages when she was really "into you" if you didn't pay her enough attention, she felt bad. (Like the time you had to take care of your cat after surgery.)

And now that she's being distant, and you want to talk to her, that upsets her as well. Can you see a pattern here? If she pulls and you push, or she pushes and you pull, it's not gonna go well. These non congruent actions make pwBPD panic. You have tried to talk to her twice since the "How are you?" exchange. It hasn't worked. If you keep trying, I genuinely believe it will only dysregulate her further, and maybe even trigger her to complain to HR again. It sounds dramatic, but as you know, these people overreact.

I have been in a committed live-in partnership with a dBPDbf for over 2 years now. At first, I really had no idea What the heck was up with his behavior. When he was upset with me, often for reasons I did not understand, he would also give me the silent treatment. Never having witnessed anything like this before in my life, I tried harder to talk to him and be supportive. It was disastrous. I learned fast to just leave him alone entirely if he dysregulated. Once I started doing that, he began to come around. Now, he doesn't do ST anymore at all. Because he realized that if he said he wanted to be left alone, I would respect it.

Before I learned how to master that, he didn't trust me. He thought I wasn't listening to his needs which he had actually stated very clearly. He wanted to be left alone. And he was right. I wasn't respecting that. Not on purpose, or maliciously, but because I wanted to help him. It was motivated by love, and caring. But I realized what he needed was to be left alone, completely, when he was upset. There was also a component in there of me wanting to feel as if he was ok with me. The fact that he wasn't made me feel bad, and excluded. But I had to learn to put that aside and realize that I am not the one with this disorder. I don't need approval or reassurance the way he does. I stopped making it about my needs and wants (which were to connect with him better, and not fight) and asked myself what I needed to do to help that happen. It was obvious that trying to talk to him when he wanted to be left alone was NOT working. Leaving him alone when he asked for it - that worked.

Eventually, he became comfortable coming to me to talk when he was upset, rather than fleeing from me. I know how hard it is to ignore this person you care about and not even be able to say hi or make small talk, but I really do think for now, it's the best course of action. If you leave her be, there is a chance she may eventually talk to you again. If you push the issue, I think there's a very strong chance she will pull away entirely. It's not the best news to hear, but that's the reality of BPD. Normal rules of interaction between friends and lovers don't apply here. Like another poster (pearlsw, I think) once said to me "With BPD, you have to forget everything you thought you knew about relationships."

[85crt]

It's very hard but seeing the way she was looking and acting yesterday and me being stubborn and probably really making it worse I have decided to do everything in my power to just avoid her completely.

I must really cause her pain.  And some have said it isn't necessarily me but just kind of what I remind her of but still... I'm going to do everything I can to not look at her or talk to her or even be around.

I'll take breaks outside or something.  I'll find excuses to leave or do something distracting if she comes near.  She'll never have to hear my voice if I can help it.

What sucks is maybe I already have lost her.  Just because I didn't understand.  And how could I?  Someone can say oh I have BPD and all this but with no experience I never had a chance.

Especially because I'm the type who always tries to help and support and make things work.

I guess all I can do is work hard to keep her out of my life as crazy as that sounds and just keep a little hope buried deep down that maybe someday she'll decide to speak with me again.

[85crt]

Want to add to... you know we were thick as thieves until the "cat" thing.  She asked me if I wanted to go to this arcade we had been planning on going to after work and I said you know I had to get home to make sure I kept my cat's med schedule... she said ok and seemed ok but 6 hours later when I was taking her home from work that's when she started saying oh this isn't good, doesn't know if she can do it, etc. 

After we talked she wanted to kiss and I think I mentioned said "did I ruin everything" and gave me a hug.  Point is... our job affords tons of time to think and overthink.  After I said no to the arcade maybe she spent the rest of the day thinking whatever it is that a pwBPD might torment themselves with.

And so by the time we get to my car it was just... well she has never really clearly communicated.  Lots of just "i don't know" and "i can't talk about it" and me trying to fill in the blanks. 

Just interesting.  This is so complicated and I just was not prepared or equipped at all for this.  I'm going to keep studying. 

[85crt]

Let me ask this- what is most likely her stance right now?

Yestersay she seemed down right distraught... rushing around on her breaks, really a sad expression on her face.  I went out of my way to be doing something so we wouldn't even look at each other when passing by.

She seemed really distracted and down.

So again my question is... giving we are now in full silent treatment... is it more likely she is resenting/hating me for making her what she perceived as pressured or is it more likely she's beating herself up because she's driven yet another person away and she's just awful, etc?

Obviously there are other things bothering her and I have no way of knowing so it is what it is.

I'm just trying to understand the phases and patterns.  She always blamed herself for everything.  1st time I gave her a ride she kept asking was I sure because she didn't want to be a burden to me.  Here I am geeked to be spending time with this amazing girl and she keeps apologizing.

And if part of it is that she's ashamed how things have gone and she is beating herself up... all I can still do is avoid her right?  There's nothing I can do but wait out the storm and hope she contacts me correct?

Really a tough thing to care about someone and want to help but be part of the problem.