When is a "no" really a "yes" —to ourselves?

[heartandwhole]

Hi All,

I remember hearing a saying that has stayed with me a long time. It goes something like this: "A clear NO to someone or something can actually be a big YES to yourself."

I've been thinking about this subject a lot recently. I have a new job that requires a lot of understanding, compassion, and boundaries. And I see how I and my colleagues seem to have copious amounts of the former, but struggle with when to say yes to requests for more of our time and energy.

This TED talk by family therapist Sarri Gilman (see below) resonated with me. She describes a compass that points to "yes" or "no" and how we can listen carefully to those and make good decisions for ourselves and our lives.

She talks about self-care as much more than what we eat and how much we exercise.

For me, I've noticed that my "yes" comes quickly when I'm asked to help. Now I'm learning to take some time to think about it before answering, because too often, I've overridden my own needs when responding. Then I feel exhausted and am not helping anyone anymore.

I like being a "yes" person, though.    I don't want to become hesitant or guarded. And that brings me to the subject of swinging the pendulum to the opposite direction. Sometimes instead of saying yes, we say no to everything. We shut down, and close our hearts, especially after going through so much hurt.

How do we keep our "no" a statement of our joy and self-care and not a wall that separates us from others?

How do we keep our "yes" something that excites us and not an automatic reaction because we fear the reactions of others or a challenge to our own beliefs about ourselves?

Does anyone else struggle with this? What situations are the hardest for you?

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts!

heartandwhole


Date: 2-2015Minutes: 15:54
Good boundaries free you | Sarri Gilman

[Insom]

Hi, heartandwhole!

Does anyone else struggle with this? What situations are the hardest for you?

Yes!  This is something I struggle with in my work life where I tend overdo work to the point of collapse and then need a long period of rest to recover.  I see this as a destructive pattern that has prevented me from moving forward on important projects and it's felt confusing to me to find a balance between healthy challenge and rest.  I see a pattern of emotional intensity in the way I approach work that feels similar to what my relationship with BPD-ex felt like. 

One of the things that's helping me a lot that I've mentioned here before is keeping a "how I feel" journal where I catalog how I feel (mainly body sensations like hunger or pain but also some emotions).  One of the things it's shown me is that I have a pattern of blowing past bodily signals that indicate a need for rest, and it's also helped me learn to take guilt-free rest when I need it. 

[once removed]

Does anyone else struggle with this? What situations are the hardest for you?

i remember reading the book "boundaries" by cloud and townsend. at the time, i felt a lot of it didnt apply to me. im not necessarily a people pleaser, i can say no, and i dont tend to take on more than i can handle.

over the years ive looked at it a bit more deeply. the fact is, i often feel a good deal of anxiety when i have to say no, and i struggle to find the words to say it, and i tend to want to JADE or cover it with reassurance or nice words. i do sometimes say yes when id prefer to say no. sometimes we all have to i suppose, but i do often resent the person. and, at least in the past, rather than say "no" without JADEing, i would come up with excuses or a "white lie" about why i cant say yes, to try to stave off some of that anxiety.

BIFF was one of the communication techniques that really helped me in this regard. it helps me cut out the JADE parts, and stay focused, firm, but friendly. what ive found is that its not so bad, in spite of my anxieties, which i still have. people respect you more for it. usually, they dont react beyond the equivalent of "thanks anyway". and when they do, frankly, its more about them, and ive learned to let them self soothe.

i cant name any relationship ive killed by saying no; if anything its improved them. i respect myself more, and i dont resent the person because of my own difficulties.

but i do struggle. most recently, im trying to tap into those thoughts and feelings surrounding the prospect of saying no, try to get a better feel for where they are coming from.

[heartandwhole]

One of the things that's helping me a lot that I've mentioned here before is keeping a "how I feel" journal where I catalog how I feel (mainly body sensations like hunger or pain but also some emotions).  One of the things it's shown me is that I have a pattern of blowing past bodily signals that indicate a need for rest, and it's also helped me learn to take guilt-free rest when I need it. 

Insom, that is so interesting! I think keeping a journal is a fantastic way to monitor how we miss (or ignore) the signals from our bodies. I use the word "ignore" intentionally, because that is what I feel I do when it comes to my needs.

I guess it comes down to prioritizing. For some reason, we see whatever we are doing as more important than our own need for _____ (fill in the blank)? But we probably wouldn't do it if we didn't think that we'd get that thing we need by doing it, you know? So it's a convoluted way of getting what we need, but it's inefficient and sometimes even harmful.

Does that make any sense?

heartandwhole

[heartandwhole]

Hi once removed,

Thanks for chiming in! You know I resonate with what you wrote about being able to say no. I'm actually pretty good about it, too, especially in professional situations, where I can cultivate a bit of distance.

Personal relationships are another story, and in the field of social/family support work, things get personal pretty quick. There is also a lot of opportunities for triangles and the empathy meter gets activated, too. Once that starts going on, saying yes becomes the "right" thing to do, in my mind. Again, putting others' needs ahead of mine, because, hey, I'm fine, right? I don't need half as much as others... .

... .well, I've come to find that that's not the case as much as I thought.  

over the years ive looked at it a bit more deeply. the fact is, i often feel a good deal of anxiety when i have to say no, and i struggle to find the words to say it, and i tend to want to JADE or cover it with reassurance or nice words. i do sometimes say yes when id prefer to say no. sometimes we all have to i suppose, but i do often resent the person. and, at least in the past, rather than say "no" without JADEing, i would come up with excuses or a "white lie" about why i cant say yes, to try to stave off some of that anxiety.

I think this is a goldmine of opportunity to explore—the feeling of anxiety when you want to say no, and how you deal with that feeling. I know I can relate and I'm sure most here can as well.

I wonder what would happen if you (we) allowed that anxiety to just be present as you say no? I've read that uncomfortable feelings stick around for about 90 seconds, so that's not too bad to have to sit through. I'll practice with anyone who wants to take this on!  

heartandwhole

[valet]

For me I think it comes down to a gut feeling. There were periods in my life where I constantly rationalized my decisions, good and bad, without relying on how I actually felt about them. I liked to find ways to internally justify whatever it is I chose to do, so I just did whatever and formed my narratives later. This habit decreased when I consciously made an effort to listen to myself first, and make decisions second with a little bit more of that 'wisemind' consideration.

I'm not perfect by any means, but I feel like I've struck a good balance between the two at this point.

I'd say I struggle the most when I am already stretched a bit too thin, emotionally, physically, or otherwise. From my perspective now it's easy to see how this can compound. We do one thing that isn't good for us, then another, then another... .because we're still thinking about or rationalizing our mistakes, which invariably takes away from the energy we need to make good choices in the present.

When I am not in the present moment I am not choosing. I'm replaying old scripts. So I make general effort at focusing on the now in terms of my own values, more or less.

[MeandThee29]

I'm working on that. There was a time where I pretty much said yes to everything, especially to my husband.

Now I'm more thoughtful about it. Sometimes saying that I need to think before responding. I'm not there yet, but better. It's interesting that my young adults are a lot better at it than I am.

It does become a matter of self-care and respect for oneself.

[once removed]

Again, putting others' needs ahead of mine, because, hey, I'm fine, right? I don't need half as much as others... .

i still believe in putting others ahead of myself. my faith dictates it. so does my attitude. theres a balance to be found, of course. my faith also dictates and stresses healthy boundaries. the two arent mutually exclusive... .they can be confusing. helping others is rarely technically convenient. there is usually some aspect of putting someone else ahead of ourselves.

and/but theres a payoff. we feel good about ourselves for helping. somewhere in our minds, we know we would want that help if we were in that position. i think those are needs, or at least a part of our need to be connected to others. we can get lost in there, too, though. we all know how a good thing can go too far; when we are enabling, denying someone their own identity and independence, denying our own ("losing ourselves" or when our self worth is completely wrapped up in helping others, etc. i also recall the "martyr for love" thread. my beliefs about, and my own role in putting others ahead of myself needed some examination.

i suppose thats just a long winded way of saying none of this is black and white and self awareness goes a long way.

I think this is a goldmine of opportunity to explore—the feeling of anxiety when you want to say no, and how you deal with that feeling. I know I can relate and I'm sure most here can as well.

I wonder what would happen if you (we) allowed that anxiety to just be present as you say no? I've read that uncomfortable feelings stick around for about 90 seconds, so that's not too bad to have to sit through.

honest assessment: i do allow that anxiety to be present; i dont have much choice. those feelings also tend to stick with me a lot longer than 90 seconds. has it gotten easier? not really. what has happened is that i feel both more honest, and more self assured. i try to say/do what i really need to say/do. with practice, i feel more confident in my approach, and more certain i did the right thing. the more i lean into that, the more the anxiety tends to lessen.

[heartandwhole]

I'd say I struggle the most when I am already stretched a bit too thin, emotionally, physically, or otherwise. From my perspective now it's easy to see how this can compound. We do one thing that isn't good for us, then another, then another... .because we're still thinking about or rationalizing our mistakes, which invariably takes away from the energy we need to make good choices in the present.

I'm right there with you, valet.    What is that acronym? HALT—Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired. Don't make decisions when in these states. It makes sense. But we often bulldoze right through states and feelings that are giving us constant feedback.

When I am not in the present moment I am not choosing. I'm replaying old scripts. So I make general effort at focusing on the now in terms of my own values, more or less.

I think that's great advice, and an important reminder.

heartandwhole