help me understand these schadenfreude feelings i have

[Depression = 72% of members]

my experience with my BPDex i feel has really amplified feelings of anger and vengefulness but it is quite unhealthy as the feelings go from the extreme of "hope you do actually suicide rather than talk about it", to that of "i love you so much still, ive learned that you probably didnt mean or even fully understand just how much your behaviour has hurt me, i hope one day we both get better".

well the last three months with her was an intentional period of closure i wanted to go through, i had already decided there wasnt a relationship but I just couldnt go NC at that point. I would have, but she made an attempt to charm me back in and I went along with it intentionally. It helped a huge amount. I saw her breakdown in tears and the strange thing is, all the times before I felt almost just as overwhelmed as she was, the pity kicked in, the affection kicked in, only this time I actually enjoyed it, although on the surface I consoled her in a professional almost clinical way, far different and cooler than before. my thoughts are when i remember it are along the lines are thinking

"hahaha, this sure is entertaining, guess your not so smart now afterall".
 
its not that she was never upset or bad things hadnt happened to her in the past, it is my reaction that changed to it. i always felt almost like each time I had taken a transference of the pain she suffered and helped her through it. this time i was actually happy to see her miserable. (more evidence to me that I was doing the right thing wanting to finish it).

I could never do anything against her, even though she has done so much to cause devastation in my life, but psychologically i have sometimes hoped for her downfall for what she has done in pretty graphic ways, they just jumped in my mind, from seeing her roaming the streets destitute, ragged and muttering to herself to quite nasty fates. they then cycle to feelings of forgiveness even though I think that is the biggest issue here. there was never an apology, never a recognition that she had done anything wrong to me, even though I know that she knows she has.

i sometimes have had fantasies where we cross paths in the future, she is down and out and ive done well to get back on with my life and i just laugh in her face when she apologises.

the difficult part is, i truly dont like being this kind of person. I know that otherwise i hate to see people suffer and this is what makes this particularly disturbing for me, i really do feel that being with her and the abuse she has gave in many ways has brought out the worst in me. i think because i couldnt or didnt do anything at the times i should have and this is now some sort of delayed anger coming out now that she is gone.

she could be unthinkably cruel, evil and sadistic when she painted me black. ive never encountered anything to the level of rage she literally changed into the devil during those moments. it is the evil smirk that she used to pull that was the worst for me, ive never hit a woman but she really made me feel like it in those moments.

i think alot of where the fatigue came from was this anger that i couldnt outlet anywhere. people say stuff like "go do some press-ups instead". im lucky that I got over my agorophobia to even go for a walk to the local shop. the change in confidence of who i was to what i became was astounding.

i often feel weak for feeling guilty about these thoughts, there are other people who know more in detail what ive been through and they have warned me even at the early stages of the relationship that she was a loony and couldnt understand that beyond the fact she was highly attractive, they just couldnt fathom what it was that I found so captivated about her. they dont understand why i should care if after all she has done that shed just overdose in a corner somewhere and id uncork a bottle of champagne knowing that at least she cant anymore do more damage to others.

i really hate myself when those feelings come though. does anyone ever feel similair or know how to get through it. they do seem to get less frequent, but they resurface alot when i feel triggered by stuff that i associate with the worst part of the traumas. i just wish I could let go of it somehow.


 

[Cromwell]

my experience with my BPDex i feel has really amplified feelings of anger and vengefulness but it is quite unhealthy as the feelings go from the extreme of "hope you do actually suicide rather than talk about it", to that of "i love you so much still, ive learned that you probably didnt mean or even fully understand just how much your behaviour has hurt me, i hope one day we both get better".

well the last three months with her was an intentional period of closure i wanted to go through, i had already decided there wasnt a relationship but I just couldnt go NC at that point. I would have, but she made an attempt to charm me back in and I went along with it intentionally. It helped a huge amount. I saw her breakdown in tears and the strange thing is, all the times before I felt almost just as overwhelmed as she was, the pity kicked in, the affection kicked in, only this time I actually enjoyed it, although on the surface I consoled her in a professional almost clinical way, far different and cooler than before. my thoughts are when i remember it are along the lines are thinking

"hahaha, this sure is entertaining, guess your not so smart now afterall".
 
its not that she was never upset or bad things hadnt happened to her in the past, it is my reaction that changed to it. i always felt almost like each time I had taken a transference of the pain she suffered and helped her through it. this time i was actually happy to see her miserable. (more evidence to me that I was doing the right thing wanting to finish it).

I could never do anything against her, even though she has done so much to cause devastation in my life, but psychologically i have sometimes hoped for her downfall for what she has done in pretty graphic ways, they just jumped in my mind, from seeing her roaming the streets destitute, ragged and muttering to herself to quite nasty fates. they then cycle to feelings of forgiveness even though I think that is the biggest issue here. there was never an apology, never a recognition that she had done anything wrong to me, even though I know that she knows she has.

i sometimes have had fantasies where we cross paths in the future, she is down and out and ive done well to get back on with my life and i just laugh in her face when she apologises.

the difficult part is, i truly dont like being this kind of person. I know that otherwise i hate to see people suffer and this is what makes this particularly disturbing for me, i really do feel that being with her and the abuse she has gave in many ways has brought out the worst in me. i think because i couldnt or didnt do anything at the times i should have and this is now some sort of delayed anger coming out now that she is gone.

she could be unthinkably cruel, evil and sadistic when she painted me black. ive never encountered anything to the level of rage she literally changed into the devil during those moments. it is the evil smirk that she used to pull that was the worst for me, ive never hit a woman but she really made me feel like it in those moments.

i think alot of where the fatigue came from was this anger that i couldnt outlet anywhere. people say stuff like "go do some press-ups instead". im lucky that I got over my agorophobia to even go for a walk to the local shop. the change in confidence of who i was to what i became was astounding.

i often feel weak for feeling guilty about these thoughts, there are other people who know more in detail what ive been through and they have warned me even at the early stages of the relationship that she was a loony and couldnt understand that beyond the fact she was highly attractive, they just couldnt fathom what it was that I found so captivated about her. they dont understand why i should care if after all she has done that shed just overdose in a corner somewhere and id uncork a bottle of champagne knowing that at least she cant anymore do more damage to others.

i really hate myself when those feelings come though. does anyone ever feel similair or know how to get through it. they do seem to get less frequent, but they resurface alot when i feel triggered by stuff that i associate with the worst part of the traumas. i just wish I could let go of it somehow.


 

[Whoad]

I believe the feelings are there, for all of us whom suffered. A part of me has thought about the way I will communicate with her, if she tries to return to my life. I have seen the truly ugly side of BPD and split blac as well. It’s amazing how cruel a human being can be psychologically. I have also had thoughts about her losing everything her new man, her kids, her way of life. But that never seems to happen to them.

I am resigned that to get over the harmful thoughts, is to really just let go of the hate. We don’t have to forget ever what they did to us, but we must forgive. If you let the actions go, and realize the relationship as real as it seemed was a play, a drama, a theatrical performance, by the best actors, it makes swallowing the whole ordeal a bit easier. I just refuse to perform for that theater ever again. 

The problems I deal with now are what hurts were caused by her treatment of me, and what am I doing to make sure I don’t take them with me to the next person(s).  I am working on stopping overthinking, letting go, not trying to predict people’s actions, and recognize my limitations in new relationships.

It’s hard.  It will take time, you will process the loss. I am over her by tons, I hope never to see her again.

Feelings will get less frequent, and subside, but identify those triggerrs, and recognize your reaction and work though them...

Mine is the silent treatment and dishonesty. Right now in fact, my closet freind is under huge amounts of stress, she was offered three jobs in three locations, add money, freinds, relationships and ADHD and she is having huge issues, she blew up at me, I apologized for being selfish, and have to  give her space to process. But I dwell on the fact I have not heard from her since Thursday. But I have talked to her boss, and she was literally overwhelmed because  she was overthinking all of it and caused a panic attack. But the lack of communication via phone, in person, or text... is reminding of silent treatment. I am not unfriended, not blocked, not told to not contact... but just nothing. Our relationship is not on the radar... she is hyper focused on her career decision. I love her and will give her the space she needs.  This is tough.

Remember as well,  what she did to you was the best way to hurt you, remember they mirror us to get us, they make us love what we see about us. The silent treatment is punishment, all of their actions are punishing the very people they should love, to run away to push us away, because they fear us rejecting them or abandoning them. So they nail us first to protect the inner wounded child. I hope that helps...

[heartandwhole]

Hi Cromwell,

I think feeling Schadenfreude at times is just human nature. I've had feelings of wanting another person to fail miserably, and I'm not proud of it.

Anger is an important part of the grieving process. I didn't do well with it, after my breakup. In fact, I hardly felt it. It took me quite a bit of time to get in touch with it, and even then, I'm not sure I didn't suppress much of it.

So, on that front, we can say you are ahead of the game.   I think feeling your anger and experiencing thoughts of revenge and Schadenfreude, without judgment, is a healthy response.

I understand feeling guilty. I certainly don't have a self-image of myself that includes wanting others to fail or suffer. But self-compassion teaches me that as humans, none of us is exempt from dark thoughts or uncomfortable feelings. And our thoughts and feelings do not define who we are.

In Susan Anderson's book, she talks about "raging against the injustice" as an important part of recovery, because often our self-esteem has taken such a colossal hit. It makes sense that we feel the need to reaffirm ourselves and express a resounding NO to what happened.  

I recommend trying to feel your anger as energy/sensations in your body, and avoid attaching to thoughts that tell you that it's bad or wrong to feel that way. Uncoupling the feeling from the thoughts, so to speak.

What do you think?

heartandwhole

[Speck]

Hello again, Cromwell:

I just have some things to add here:

I sometimes have had fantasies where we cross paths in the future, she is down and out and I've done well to get back on with my life and I just laugh in her face when she apologises.

This is quite understandable considering this:

She could be unthinkably cruel, evil and sadistic when she painted me black.

I just wanted to pop in here and reinforce what heartandwhole has suggested to you, which is that feelings of Schadenfreude are perfectly normal within the context of being mistreated. "It's just human nature," she says. I agree.

The difficult part is, I truly don't like being this kind of person. I know that otherwise, I hate to see people suffer and this is what makes this particularly disturbing for me, I really do feel that being with her and the abuse she has given in many ways has brought out the worst in me. I think because I couldn't or didn't do anything at the times I should have and this is now some sort of delayed anger coming out now that she is gone.

The dark thoughts you are describing are understandable and will pass with time. Grief is a process, and this is what it looks like for you. I would imagine that your darkest thoughts are equivalent to the level of pain you've suffered. Be gentle with yourself, and begin the journey of forgiving yourself for getting hurt in the first place.

I really hate myself when those feelings come through.

Hopefully, you see now that you have nothing for which to hate yourself.

Does anyone ever feel similar or know how to get through it?

Ha! You've come to the right place to find company on this score. For me, I just know that grief is a process, and wishing my ex poorly is not in comportment to that which is healthy for me to entertain. I must let it go, and so I shall.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning!


-Speck

[Cromwell]

thank you so much whoad, heartandwhole, speck, youve made me feel a lot better reading this.

[Lucky Jim]

I recommend trying to feel your anger as energy/sensations in your body, and avoid attaching to thoughts that tell you that it's bad or wrong to feel that way. Uncoupling the feeling from the thoughts, so to speak.

Hey playmisty, I echo heartandwhole and suggest you just observe your feelings as they come up, without judgment, and then let them pass through your body, like lightning channeled by a lightning rod into the ground. 

i really hate myself when those feelings come though. does anyone ever feel similair or know how to get through it. they do seem to get less frequent, but they resurface alot when i feel triggered by stuff that i associate with the worst part of the traumas. i just wish I could let go of it somehow.

Don't beat yourself up!  It's normal to have feelings arise.  They are part of you.  After acknowledging my feelings, I like to process them in some way.  How to process?  That's up to you, but you could: reach out to a close friend or family member to discuss; write in a journal; make an appointment to see a T; practice mindfulness meditation; take a walk in the woods or at the beach; do something creative, like art or music; get a good physical workout; etc.  You get the idea!

LuckyJim

[Cromwell]

Hey playmisty, I echo heartandwhole and suggest you just observe your feelings as they come up, without judgment, and then let them pass through your body, like lightning channeled by a lightning rod into the ground.  

Don't beat yourself up!  It's normal to have feelings arise.  They are part of you.  After acknowledging my feelings, I like to process them in some way.  How to process?  That's up to you, but you could: reach out to a close friend or family member to discuss; write in a journal; make an appointment to see a T; practice mindfulness meditation; take a walk in the woods or at the beach; do something creative, like art or music; get a good physical workout; etc.  You get the idea!

LuckyJim

Thanks Luckyjim, I like the lightning rod visualisation, will certainly remember that one for when these flashbacks happen.

i wont ever tire of telling you all how great youve been, the worst feeling I had was the isolation of not being able to find anyone who could understand, despite going to people for help. the average doctor may have studied a textbook definition of BPD but not truly understand it, same as counsellors. the single biggest help has been the people on these boards and their real life experiences and learning what worked for them. the stalking, triangulation and army of flying monkeys she recruited stealthily she did made me feel even more alone, and at the same time magnified the unhealthy connection I had with her. it all starts to make more sense to me as time goes on.

I learned on a seperate post here today someone said not to confuse revenge and indignation. Small things like that really make this place so valuable to me. i almost feel guilty for not feeling angry about her today. what really hurt is the cryptic way she basically told me what she was doing was "tough love". she really got into her mind that i deserved to be treated this way. ummmm. rigghhhtttt... .okayyyyyy.

well thanks for that lightning rod visual, think ill be using it after I press the post button. i think you can tell its time to use it now. thanks!  

[Seenowayout]

Playmisty -- My experience reflects yours in many ways -- the demonic rages, her lack of guilt, friends not understanding, etc etc

When it was over I went for professional help because I really was a mess. My first T said my problem was I didn't feel emotion enough, and in sessions encouraged me to feel them in front of him.  Two things stand out -- I remembered telling my ex that she would die alone. T made me picture her in her death bed all alone -- God I cried and cried and cried. It was awful and really gave me no relief, only heightened my pity for her and guilt over the crazy things I said when I was with her.  In another session he told me to imagine pushing her to her death off a cliff, and wanted me to describe her broken body down there -- that was just sick to me and so far outside my nature. I quit that T, and honestly, haven't found one that's been very understanding of my situation. "Oh yeah BPD is bad" they say. "Just get over it, you need to focus on your life". Gee thanks. I wish I thought of that

I ended up doing what heart and whole and luckyjim say -- just let the thoughts come and go. They do go.  And they come less frequently over time   I think its normal for you to have angry thoughts now.  You've been very hurt. I had terrible thoughts too. I don't anymore. You know why?  Because I'm winning.   Give yourself time.

[Seenowayout]

Playmisty -- I thought of another analogy to complement the lightening rod.  It's how I managed / manage the Schadenfreude.

The thoughts are like a roller coaster ride.  You see one coming, you can't really avoid it, so you get on, and you just ride it.  You know it will end.  You know it is on secure rails.  You know no one actually gets hurt from the ride.  And the more you ride it, the more boring it gets until eventually you just stop getting on.

I was shocked at the thoughts I was having -- I wanted to spray paint the "c word" in bright orange dayglow paint on the front of the house I helped her buy.     I wanted to slash the tires I bought her.  I had thoughts that rivaled the Jack Woltz scene from Godfather.  And I'm a guy who ushers a cockroach out of a house rather than kill it.  I would never do these things.  I think somehow my mind was trying to deal with the injustice of it all.  And as they say, you play with a pig you're gonna get muddy.

A minute later I was thinking how I wanted to hold her and get her therapy to help her with her problems. Pay for her to have therapy.

Obviously the problem was me.  These seemed like conflicting thoughts, but they are only thoughts. 

I'm good now.  You will be too, as hard as that might be to believe now.  Don't be too hard on yourself.  Enjoy the roller coaster

[Cromwell]

Playmisty -- I thought of another analogy to complement the lightening rod.  It's how I managed / manage the Schadenfreude.

The thoughts are like a roller coaster ride.  You see one coming, you can't really avoid it, so you get on, and you just ride it.  You know it will end.  You know it is on secure rails.  You know no one actually gets hurt from the ride.  And the more you ride it, the more boring it gets until eventually you just stop getting on.

I was shocked at the thoughts I was having -- I wanted to spray paint the "c word" in bright orange dayglow paint on the front of the house I helped her buy.     I wanted to slash the tires I bought her.  I had thoughts that rivaled the Jack Woltz scene from Godfather.  And I'm a guy who ushers a cockroach out of a house rather than kill it.  I would never do these things.  I think somehow my mind was trying to deal with the injustice of it all.  And as they say, you play with a pig you're gonna get muddy.

A minute later I was thinking how I wanted to hold her and get her therapy to help her with her problems. Pay for her to have therapy.

Obviously the problem was me.  These seemed like conflicting thoughts, but they are only thoughts. 

I'm good now.  You will be too, as hard as that might be to believe now.  Don't be too hard on yourself.  Enjoy the roller coaster

 that means a lot to me, especially as I believe you are right. Im glad that you over-came this I can only imagine it has made you a stronger person, I feel like if anything it has been a form of necessary, albeit in a cruel way, a road to overcoming issues that were there before I met her, but by being with that kind of personality it magnified things more than other people Ive been with.

I havent responded to many of the kind posts Ive had because ive not been online, I feel when I post something this emotive I need to then spend awhile to process and digest it all. I also enjoy to be training my own brain not to be so entwined like we were for such a long period of time, it became addicting aswell as suffocating to constantly think or worry about someone else. I dont want my postings her to be a sort of pseudo-talking to her, rather a way of helping others and being grateful to you guys for supporting me get through the worst of it.

thanks again all of you. 

Cromwell

[MeandThee29]

The thoughts are like a roller coaster ride.  You see one coming, you can't really avoid it, so you get on, and you just ride it.  You know it will end.  You know it is on secure rails.  You know no one actually gets hurt from the ride.  And the more you ride it, the more boring it gets until eventually you just stop getting on.

I was shocked at the thoughts I was having -- I wanted to spray paint the "c word" in bright orange dayglow paint on the front of the house I helped her buy.     I wanted to slash the tires I bought her.  I had thoughts that rivaled the Jack Woltz scene from Godfather.  And I'm a guy who ushers a cockroach out of a house rather than kill it.  I would never do these things.  I think somehow my mind was trying to deal with the injustice of it all.  And as they say, you play with a pig you're gonna get muddy.

A minute later I was thinking how I wanted to hold her and get her therapy to help her with her problems. Pay for her to have therapy.

Obviously the problem was me.  These seemed like conflicting thoughts, but they are only thoughts.  

I'm good now.  You will be too, as hard as that might be to believe now.  :)on't be too hard on yourself.  Enjoy the roller coaster

This is very well stated. In one session with my counsellor we worked on thoughts versus truth.

Yes, we were wronged. That's a truth.

At times we wish they paid for what they did to us. That's just a thought though. Justice in this case isn't ours to handle. Acknowledge the thought, and let it pass. Depending on your world view, trust God/universal justice/etc. to handle it. Sometimes you have to do this over-and-over. It will get better.