How to reconnect without falling into the same old roles?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I am a 42 year old mother of 2  children (7 and 8 y. o.) with a supportive husband and an exacting job.
It is a daily challenge to keep everything up in the air an running more or less smoothly.
My own hobbies tend to get the lowest priority and that can result in quite some frustration on my side.

Oh boy, I fear this might become a very long post…here goes…

We had an emotionally fraught 2017: my father-in-law died of cancer in August. He lived abroad and the 4 of us took care of him and his wife (who was recovering from a hip operation) for what ended up being the last month of his life. I texted my mother daily, she was my support and my vent to let off some steam.
The second half of 2017 was heavily burdened by trying to sort out an inheritance in another language, moving the needy widow (stepmother) back in with her son, and mediating between feuding family members. It was stressful and emotionally exhausting, but we stood by each other and managed to stay afloat. By the end of year we were finally getting back on our feet. I was leaning less and less on my mother for support. And I was feeling stronger than ever before: we had been through a lot, and we had done well. I felt like a good person, able to give to others and be supportive.
We had reasonably good end-of-year celebrations with my husbands’ family on one side and with my mother on the other. My brother lives in Finland, and my mother has broken all contact with the few people that are left in her family, so it is up to us to fill the void during festivities (and other times as well). 
But then things went wrong. Beginning of January I had one of the 6-monthly fall-outs with my mother: My tone of voice was wrong on the phone, and she hung up. With my husband leaving the next week to finalize his inheritance, I did not feel up to another scene, so I did not react for a week. Once my husband was back home, I gathered up my courage and went over to her place to try to sort things out. I got the full load: I hurt her all the time. I do it only with her, and it is all her fault, because she had spoilt me rotten and always given me everything. And then came the punchline: she no longer wanted me in her life. She had never said that before.
Unlike previous fallouts, where I end up crying, running away and calling my brother to ask him to mediate, I reacted. We ended up in a screaming match. In the end I told her my door was open for her if she could accept me as I was instead of how she wanted me to be, and I left.
Afterwards, I started questioning my relationship towards my mother: how could she simply say she no longer wanted me in her life? Some of the reproaches she slung at me had been simmering for years. She had seriously hurt me. I gritted my teeth and refused to seek contact again. I cried a lot. I was emotionally detached at home as well. I was a wreck.
After 1 month of radio silence she sent me a mail asking if she could see the children. Under serious pressure from my brother, and also because I didn’t want to push her further into isolation and negativity, I conceded. She spent an afternoon with the children. We avoided each other. She left before my husband got home.

The very next day my mother sent a mail, using my nickname, asking if we’d have breakfast with her as usual for Easter, so the children could come looking for Easter eggs. I felt empty and angry at the same time…everything was ‘back to normal’…the show was back on the road. I could not do this any longer. I was too hurt and angry.
After a long period of silence from my side, I sent her a mail saying that I could no longer act as if nothing has happened, that we had hurt each other too much. I told her I was a mess and I wanted time to sort myself out. She replied that she could not have phrased it a s such, but that she felt the same. We have not had any contact since.

In the meantime I have sought help. I have had 3 visits with a psychiatrist so far. I have mainly been talking about past experiences that had hurt me and are still lingering. At the end of our last session, he said he had the impression that my mother had borderline tendencies. I have been reading about the subject, and I ended up here.

I am still trying to figure out how my relationship with my mother works. She is certainly not a full-out BP. She has a tremendous fear of abandonment and needs endless validation and confirmation. As for me, I am emotionally enmeshed with her, which makes me very vulnerable to her mood swings. I feel responsible for her happiness, and that is exhausting. It has riddled me with guilt these past weeks, because I have now isolated her from myself and my family. For the first time in my life I have set my own well-being clearly above hers in a time of need. It feels liberating and really bad at the same time.

So we have not been in touch since January. And Mothers’ Day is looming larger every day. And by the end of June, my daughter will expect her grandmother to be there for her birthday party. The children do not know about our fallout and they have not yet asked to see their grandmother (she travels a lot, so they are used to not seeing her for longer periods of time). But they will. I have not spoken to them about this, I do not want to burden them with adult struggles. But what do I tell them in the end, without entangling them in the drama? And how do I pick up the thread with my mother? I do not feel any need for contact right now, but I know I will have to connect again at some time, and the longer I postpone, the worse it will probably get. Do I send her a postcard for Mothers’ Day? Do I call her? I have no idea what I would say to her, and I fear her reaction. I am not yet in a strong mental state. How can I reconnect with my mother without falling into the same old traps and role-playing we have had for so long?

Thanks for reading….

[Libra]

Hello,

I am a 42 year old mother of 2  children (7 and 8 y. o.) with a supportive husband and an exacting job.
It is a daily challenge to keep everything up in the air an running more or less smoothly.
My own hobbies tend to get the lowest priority and that can result in quite some frustration on my side.

Oh boy, I fear this might become a very long post…here goes…

We had an emotionally fraught 2017: my father-in-law died of cancer in August. He lived abroad and the 4 of us took care of him and his wife (who was recovering from a hip operation) for what ended up being the last month of his life. I texted my mother daily, she was my support and my vent to let off some steam.
The second half of 2017 was heavily burdened by trying to sort out an inheritance in another language, moving the needy widow (stepmother) back in with her son, and mediating between feuding family members. It was stressful and emotionally exhausting, but we stood by each other and managed to stay afloat. By the end of year we were finally getting back on our feet. I was leaning less and less on my mother for support. And I was feeling stronger than ever before: we had been through a lot, and we had done well. I felt like a good person, able to give to others and be supportive.
We had reasonably good end-of-year celebrations with my husbands’ family on one side and with my mother on the other. My brother lives in Finland, and my mother has broken all contact with the few people that are left in her family, so it is up to us to fill the void during festivities (and other times as well). 
But then things went wrong. Beginning of January I had one of the 6-monthly fall-outs with my mother: My tone of voice was wrong on the phone, and she hung up. With my husband leaving the next week to finalize his inheritance, I did not feel up to another scene, so I did not react for a week. Once my husband was back home, I gathered up my courage and went over to her place to try to sort things out. I got the full load: I hurt her all the time. I do it only with her, and it is all her fault, because she had spoilt me rotten and always given me everything. And then came the punchline: she no longer wanted me in her life. She had never said that before.
Unlike previous fallouts, where I end up crying, running away and calling my brother to ask him to mediate, I reacted. We ended up in a screaming match. In the end I told her my door was open for her if she could accept me as I was instead of how she wanted me to be, and I left.
Afterwards, I started questioning my relationship towards my mother: how could she simply say she no longer wanted me in her life? Some of the reproaches she slung at me had been simmering for years. She had seriously hurt me. I gritted my teeth and refused to seek contact again. I cried a lot. I was emotionally detached at home as well. I was a wreck.
After 1 month of radio silence she sent me a mail asking if she could see the children. Under serious pressure from my brother, and also because I didn’t want to push her further into isolation and negativity, I conceded. She spent an afternoon with the children. We avoided each other. She left before my husband got home.

The very next day my mother sent a mail, using my nickname, asking if we’d have breakfast with her as usual for Easter, so the children could come looking for Easter eggs. I felt empty and angry at the same time…everything was ‘back to normal’…the show was back on the road. I could not do this any longer. I was too hurt and angry.
After a long period of silence from my side, I sent her a mail saying that I could no longer act as if nothing has happened, that we had hurt each other too much. I told her I was a mess and I wanted time to sort myself out. She replied that she could not have phrased it a s such, but that she felt the same. We have not had any contact since.

In the meantime I have sought help. I have had 3 visits with a psychiatrist so far. I have mainly been talking about past experiences that had hurt me and are still lingering. At the end of our last session, he said he had the impression that my mother had borderline tendencies. I have been reading about the subject, and I ended up here.

I am still trying to figure out how my relationship with my mother works. She is certainly not a full-out BP. She has a tremendous fear of abandonment and needs endless validation and confirmation. As for me, I am emotionally enmeshed with her, which makes me very vulnerable to her mood swings. I feel responsible for her happiness, and that is exhausting. It has riddled me with guilt these past weeks, because I have now isolated her from myself and my family. For the first time in my life I have set my own well-being clearly above hers in a time of need. It feels liberating and really bad at the same time.

So we have not been in touch since January. And Mothers’ Day is looming larger every day. And by the end of June, my daughter will expect her grandmother to be there for her birthday party. The children do not know about our fallout and they have not yet asked to see their grandmother (she travels a lot, so they are used to not seeing her for longer periods of time). But they will. I have not spoken to them about this, I do not want to burden them with adult struggles. But what do I tell them in the end, without entangling them in the drama? And how do I pick up the thread with my mother? I do not feel any need for contact right now, but I know I will have to connect again at some time, and the longer I postpone, the worse it will probably get. Do I send her a postcard for Mothers’ Day? Do I call her? I have no idea what I would say to her, and I fear her reaction. I am not yet in a strong mental state. How can I reconnect with my mother without falling into the same old traps and role-playing we have had for so long?

Thanks for reading….

[YouHadMeAtHello]

Hello Libra!

I want to preface everything I'm about to write by saying that I'm farther along in my healing/journey.  So, if I seem harsh or mean, it's because I have been on this path for longer and I have a lot more boundaries about what I will and will not tolerate now.

So, why do you want to reconnect with your mom?  What positives does she bring to your life? 

It sounds like your mom has engineered things in such a way that you feel responsible for her happiness.  That is unfair and unreasonable.  Do you see that?  Would you want to do that to your kids?  Following that train of thought, do you think she's really emotionally safe for your kids? 

I don't have a mother with BPD, in my case it is my sister.  For many years we went back and forth.  We'd be close and things were great, then she'd freak out and treat me terribly.  We'd eventually reconnect and act as though nothing happened, even though I never once got an apology (and, in fact, I often apologized to her even though I had not done anything mean or wrong).  Then, one day I realized that I was just sick of the whole thing.  I was sick of being her emotional dumping ground.  I was sick of having to walk on eggshells to avoid saying the wrong thing or saying the right thing with the wrong tone.  The whole thing is/was exhausting and I was just done. 

For me, having a child really caused me to re-evaluate everything.  I've put up with a ton for my sister and was responsible for her emotions, but I would never want my daughter to have to do that.  So, I think about things through that lens now.  If I wouldn't want my daughter putting up with a particular behavior, then I won't put up with it. 

Anyway, I don't know if any of that is helpful.  I just know that when my sister decides to put me in a time out or give me the silent treatment, I take it as a gift and enjoy the peace.  Each time she comes back I have more boundaries in place and, basically, she's around for shorter and shorter periods of time as a result.  *shrug*

[Libra]

Hello YouHadMeAtHello,

Thank you for your reply. Seeing you further along your journey is a hopeful sign that it is possible to distance yourself from such a roller coaster without all the guilt and self-doubt.
This site has brought me a lot of insight. Realizing that the dynamics I am stuck in with my mother are real and that it is normal for me to feel unhappy about this situation has given me some peace of mind, and a conviction to continue along this road, however hard it may become.

I got myself into a pickle by accepting her to visit the children, but then deciding to have NC myself afterwards because it felt so tense and fake between the two of us, acting once again as if nothing hurtful had been said. This makes me feel obligated to at least try one more time to take the first step in an attempt to a healthier relationship.

The problem is that I can trace most of her reactions and rages back to her own past. I know where the anger, fear and frustration is coming from. She had a horrible youth, and her trust and attachment issues exploded when my parents got divorced in my teens. It all got worse from there on. This makes it difficult to create emotional distance. It’s so frustrating to see the hurt and anger, but to be unable to do anything about it. Your term ‘emotional dumping ground’ is well coined.

As for my children and their grandmother: they adore each other. They are young and full of unconditional love, which makes my mother feel safe, intelligent and validated.
Although…while writing this I suddenly have the image of a vampire feeding on innocent blood. I think she feeds on their good feelings and lives to fill up her own void. Putting it that way makes it sound a lot less healthy, and I recognize her doing this with me as well. Is this BD behavior?

So, if I were to take the first step and seek contact, how would I go about this? Acting all cheerful and chipper will probably make her furious for not recognizing what I have put her through by choosing NC in the first place. But adding gravity will only enable her to pick up and exaggerate on that. Chances are that she will just give me another full blast right away, but in that case I think I now feel strong enough to turn around and walk away. And then the ball will truly be in her court again.

Any insight as to how to go about this are very welcome.

[Harri]

Hi Libra and welcome to the board!  We get it here.  All of us here are dealing with a family member who has BPD or BPD traits.  Even if your mom does not qualify for a diagnosis, she can still be very difficult to deal with. 

As for me, I am emotionally enmeshed with her, which makes me very vulnerable to her mood swings. I feel responsible for her happiness, and that is exhausting. It has riddled me with guilt these past weeks, because I have now isolated her from myself and my family. For the first time in my life I have set my own well-being clearly above hers in a time of need. It feels liberating and really bad at the same time.

That you recognize your enmeshment is very good.  I think it is one of the hardest things to deal with and break.  Knowing where you begin and end in relation to another is not something that will come easily after basically being trained to respond to every emotional need your mother has.  Keep doing what you are doing and repeating over and over that you are not responsible for her feelings.  I know it feels bad but it will get better and feel more natural in time.

Although…while writing this I suddenly have the image of a vampire feeding on innocent blood. I think she feeds on their good feelings and lives to fill up her own void. Putting it that way makes it sound a lot less healthy, and I recognize her doing this with me as well. Is this BD behavior?

Yes.  Yes to all of what you wrote.  The imagery is certainly accurate and useful for painting a picture of what is happening between your mom and your kids.  Beyond that, I think it may be more useful to think of it as her using others to fulfill her emotional needs and seeing others as a pacifier of sorts.  Not healthy and not good for your kids.  Some parents here have chosen to allow supervised contact only with the uBPD/BPDish grandparent.  The decision is yours to make but realize it will be especially hard given your continued enmeshment.  I don't say that to make you feel bad just to point out that it may be very difficult for you to set boundaries around this issue.  Your needs and your kids needs and safety must come first.  Protecting them so they don't experience the emotional blackmail you have can be a huge motivator in this very difficult area.

What are your fears surrounding saying no and setting limits with your mother?  What are the possible consequences of saying no and what are the benefits?

I think figuring out the answers to these questions will help you decide on how you want to approach the contact issue with your mother.  Keep in mind that you are separate from her and her emotional reaction has nothing to do with you no matter how she may say different or how you may feel inside. 

I am glad you found us.  The people on this board are wonderfully supportive and compassionate and we can all relate to your struggles.

I hope to see more of you on the boards. 

[Libra]

Harri, thank you so much for your reply. I felt a pang of guilt after posting the vampire-image. Your translation to ‘filling emotional needs’ is very accurate and less harsh.

I have been feeling very confused these past weeks. What are my fears? Simply put: being a bad daughter, I guess.

Firstly, I am still having a very hard time keeping the blame at my Mothers’ side.  There are always months in between where she does not rage and lash out. She will be highly negative and critical - venting all her emotions on me - and I have a hard time keeping emotional distance from that. But isn’t that my problem to solve, not hers?

I also feel a huge compulsion to stay in touch with her, not because I want to as such, but because everything and everyone kind of expects this.
Even my husband, who has been hugely supportive of me, cannot envisage me not trying to fix things with her. It is beyond our vision of acceptable behavior. Both of us are very conscientious. We try to raise our kids in this sense as well: be there for one another, support one another, etc. How can I send that message but at the same time not be in touch with my own mother? Or is the message wrong and are we raising our kids with values that will not prepare them for ‘real life’?

As my husband would put it, when discussing the NC from my side: ‘Imagine your mother gets a heart attack tomorrow and dies. Wouldn’t you regret this NC for the rest of your life?’ I feel too confused to answer this question truthfully. If I say ‘No’, then doesn’t that make me a terrible human being?  Doesn’t that confirm what my mother keeps accusing me of? (‘You hate me, you don’t care about me, I could be lying dead at home for weeks and nobody would even know, you hurt me time and time again,  etc…).

If I keep NC or set clear boundaries and as a result trigger a new rage and NC, I will certainly also face judgment and further alienation from my brother. I will have to explain it to my husband. I know he will respect my choice, but he will still have a hard time understanding it. I will have to explain this to my children, and I have no idea how to handle that. And I will have to be able to look myself in the mirror and truthfully say to myself: ‘You are not a bad person. You are a good and loving person who needs to set boundaries to protect yourself from unhealthy influences.’

I honestly don’t think I can do any of that at this point.

[cedarview]

Hi Libra,

We have a lot in common regarding our family dynamic. My father is still around and remains married to my mother, but we have been NC with them both for months since around Christmas. I am an only child in my 40's, married with three beautiful kids all under 10 years old. My mother is uBPD and has been for many years. It was only through the fresh eyes of my wife that I was able to see all the abuse and damage my parents have heaped on me over the years, and that led me to take steps to stop it.

You already have gotten some good advice from others here. When I first woke up to what was going on, I felt a lot of Fear, Obligation, and Guilt (FOG) about going NC with my mother. I was a bad son. I was stealing her grandchildren away from her. I was overreacting. Thinking of all the nice things she had done for me over the years; how could I pay her back by not talking to her anymore? As time goes on and you continue with your own therapy, you will find it easier to overcome these types of misgivings and doubts. From what you describe you are absolutely doing the right thing in taking a well deserved break for your mental health. You owe it to yourself and your own family to do so.

Kids! My mother fought hardest to continue to see our kids. She cared not one bit about my feelings nor those of my wife. She was obsessed with seeing our children and spending "alone" time with them. Prior to this situation my mother was a primary babysitter for us and she spent lots of unsupervised time with our kids. It took me time to fully understand what had alarmed my wife so much; the potential that my mother was grooming our children to be useful to her emotionally with her uBPD. Your kids are your priority. BPD can and does destroy individuals and also families; the cycle of emotional abuse has to end at some point and that requires action. It's not always so simple, but we made a conscious decision that the abuse stops with me. I will  not submit my kids to the childhood I had, being emotionally responsible for my m other. If that means NC than so be it. Under no circumstances will my mother get to  them with her illness.

Aside from protecting yourself and your kids, I think it is important to get your husband on board with this. You need to function as a team to get through this and come out better and stronger on the other side. If he needs education about BPD and the insidious ways it can damage people and families, you could steer him to this site. There are a lot of educational resources so that he can understand what it is that you guys are up against. You will need him and his support in setting boundaries to protect yourselves. On your journey you will meet well meaning people like concerned family members or friends, and they will say things like "How can you just stop talking to your mother? I could never do that my mother is my best friend!" or "Everybody has problems sometimes why don't you give her another chance?" or "Your mother is probably so lonely this (fill in the blank with birthday, Christmas, Mother's Day whatever); don't you think you should call her and say you are sorry?". You will just have to deal with this as it comes up, but you NEED your husband to understand these things on a deeper level so that HE is not saying these things. Once you understand what is going on with BPD, the door gets opened and he will see your mother and her behavior in a whole different way.

I know that is a lot but we are in very similar situations. No you will not regret being NC if your mother has a heart attack tomorrow. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow or I could swallow a thumbtack and die; would my mother regret giving me the silent treatment for months and months? If you don't protect your kids, THAT is what you will regret. If I were you, no more time with the kids until your mother is able to agree to boundaries set by your husband and you.

[Fie]

Hello Libra,


I recognize a lot of what you are saying. I have felt a lot of feelings that you are describing.
Like YouHadMeAtHello I am further in my journey, so I hope I will not say anything that upsets you. If so, please tell me and I will shut up
The first thing I think about here is... You are saying you feel guilty about the NC. But if I understood correctly ... it was your mother who said she didn't want you anymore in her life. Let's not mix up things here ! Maybe she didn't mean it, maybe she did, but we are not in a playground, this is adult's world, and we are supposed to not say horrible things even when we don't mean them. You cannot just  say you don't want to see your own child anymore (!) and then later pretend as if that didn't happen.

You are a mother yourself. So am I. Would you be able to think like that about your children ? Let alone tell them such a thing ?

It seems to me that wanting to be left alone, at least for a while, is perfectly normal and (if you ask me) even preferable.

My parents installed NC with me but right after that attempted to have some form of contact with my daughter (through her father - we are not together). I do now see that for what it is : mere control and manipulation, because they never wanted a relationship with her, until they ended theirs with me. At that time, I had a friend who wondered how I could even think about allowing that. I didn't agree with him, I felt like I needed my daughter to give this grandparents-grandchildren relationship.

Now I wonder how I could think like that. It's not a supermarket : 'we don't want the daughter, but from now on, we do want the granddaughter'. My daughter (and me!) is worth more than that.
On top of that... .past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Why would my parents go treat my child any different than they have treated me ? My child deserves that they keep away. If my mother would want to break her NC, I would refuse. The distance has done me good.

NC doesn't have to be forever. You can decide you want to try again at any time. But I think it might be a good idea to do that when *you* are ready. Not when it's mother's day or another holiday. In my opinion, you need some peace of mind now. But as I said, I do have my history, and I also stopped people pleasing in that regard. I have started to put my daughter and myself first now. My parents come way behind that.

What do you think ?

[Harri]

Hi Libra.  Don't feel guilty about the vampire image.  It is very descriptive but in a limited way.  I just find it more useful to use words so we can be certain we are on the same page.   

Like Fie states, I too recognize a lot of what you are saying about your feelings and fears.  I am not sure how to break through the emotional training that you experienced that has you feeling, on a gut level, that you are a bad daughter if your mother is upset.  It is not true.  Your mothers emotions are her to own and she is responsible for herself.  You are not and in fact when you try to be, you are in essence giving away your own self and at the same time limiting your mother from being her own person.  She may not realize that but that is her issue, not yours.  I used to think of this as an internal boundary:  knowing where I end in elation to another.  It is not a boundary as we use the word here but I am not quite sure what to call it yet!    You acted as the regulator for your mother when you were a child.  That never should have been your responsibility.  Your others thinking and way of relating to her child (you) is and was dysfunctional.  Keep telling yourself that over and over.  I am not saying she is a bad mother or even a good one.  She is who she is and who she is has adversely affected you.  Put down the burden of being her regulator.  it is an impossible job.     So many of us have been there so you are not alone and you can break this. 

Again, Fie is right when she says NC does not have to be permanent.  Use this time to begin to detach and build boundaries.  NC may not be necessary once you can begin to detach and learn to set boundaries.  For some people it is but not for everyone.  My mother was very difficult and very mentally ill.  She went NC with me for about a year and a half (I think) but after that I maintained limited contact with very strict boundaries.  It worked.  It works for others too.  So don't limit your options but do use this period of NC to work on yourself. 

Thank you for answering my questions so thoroughly.  There is a lot of detaching or un-enmeshing (is that a word?) to be done and as you do that I think your emotions will settle and you will be able to find your own answers.  You are allowed to say no.  No I will not do that.  No I am not responsible for that.  Even just say No.

This: 

NC doesn't have to be forever. You can decide you want to try again at any time. But I think it might be a good idea to do that when *you* are ready. Not when it's mother's day or another holiday. In my opinion, you need some peace of mind now. But as I said, I do have my history, and I also stopped people pleasing in that regard. I have started to put my daughter and myself first now. My parents come way behind that.

[YouHadMeAtHello]

The problem is that I can trace most of her reactions and rages back to her own past. I know where the anger, fear and frustration is coming from. She had a horrible youth, and her trust and attachment issues exploded when my parents got divorced in my teens. It all got worse from there on. This makes it difficult to create emotional distance. It’s so frustrating to see the hurt and anger, but to be unable to do anything about it. Your term ‘emotional dumping ground’ is well coined.

As for my children and their grandmother: they adore each other. They are young and full of unconditional love, which makes my mother feel safe, intelligent and validated.
Although…while writing this I suddenly have the image of a vampire feeding on innocent blood. I think she feeds on their good feelings and lives to fill up her own void. Putting it that way makes it sound a lot less healthy, and I recognize her doing this with me as well. Is this BD behavior?

I really feel like I have to comment on these two paragraphs. 

First off, I think my dad is uBPD as well as my sister.  My dad had a horrible childhood, full of physical and emotional abuse from both of his parents.  But, just because that happened it does not make it okay to abuse his kids.  Which, of course, he did.  He didn't hit us, but he did inflict plenty of emotional abuse.  So, I know why my sister has the issues that she does.  The thing is though, I experienced the same abuse (and much more, actually) and I'm not continually abusing other people as a result.  Her behaviors are hers and she needs to own them even if it is hard.  You will never be able to heal your mother, only she can do that. 

As for your children, I think the odds are good that she is using them for her own benefit.  I know my sister loves small children for that; they make her feel smart/important/etc.  She is nice to them, but I have zero doubt that she's using them to fill a void in herself.  It's one thing when she's teaching them in a preschool and only sees them for a year or two, but what will happen with my daughter when she's no longer filling an emotional need for my sister?  Will my sister still care about her?  Will she begin using my daughter as an emotional punching bag the way she uses me?  Those are the things I think about. 

[Libra]

Hello All,

Thank you for your replies! I have been milling over them in my mind for the past few days, trying to process all the information.

Cedarview, yes, it is remarkable how similar our situations seem…thank you for your insights!
My mother was also a primary babysitter for a long time. I have been downsizing that for a while, because it has become too much for her to mind them both for longer than a few hours. Luckily, this is also a good method for limiting unsupervised time with the children in future. Do your children never ask where their grandmother is, and why they aren’t seeing as much of her anymore? I’m still uncertain on how to handle that part of the NC.

The FOG is something that comes and goes, which I suppose is normal. My main point of work should probably be setting up boundaries and communicating these clearly. Those are quite new concepts for me, so I’ll start reading up on them and getting myself accustomed to these ideas.

As for my DH, he was the main catalyst for me standing up to my mother in January the first place, asking me to please stop accepting that my mother walks all over me all of the time. I have been telling him about my T sessions, so he is slowly getting to terms with what is happening. But you are right, I need to get him on board about the relationship between my mother and our children as well.

Fie, please don’t ‘shut up’…I appreciate your feedback! 

NC doesn't have to be forever. You can decide you want to try again at any time. But I think it might be a good idea to do that when *you* are ready.

This is a very important point for me. I have the feeling that I haven’t yet tried all options: I am still new to T, to setting boundaries, and to NC. I am not willing to ‘give up’ on the relationship with my mother just yet. Maybe with some serious work from my side, we can still get to a point of healthy if limited contact. It is just such a pity that it requires that much work in the first place.

Harri, thank you for your reply. You are right, there is a long way to go yet. I guess I will working on breaking the emotional training and detachment with my T. Patience seems to be something I have to work on as well, giving myself some more time to find the correct answers myself.

Her behaviors are hers and she needs to own them even if it is hard.  You will never be able to heal your mother, only she can do that. 

YouHadMeAtHello, I understand what you are saying, at an intellectual level. It’s the emotional level that has a hard time grasping this: If someone falls, aren’t you supposed to help pick him back up? I agree that healthy boundaries should be respected at all times, but in my case I think I should at least try to set these boundaries first, and see if and how we can evolve from there. The same goes for contact with the children: with clear boundaries and strong vigilance, I think I should at least  give it a try. If I were to simply keep up NC, I feel that I am merely punishing my mother without trying to implement the new insights I am getting via my T and – for a big part – this board.

Thank you all for your patience, empathy and advice! 

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Hi Libra,

I am really happy to hear that you have a supportive DH and that you guys are so much on the same page. Two people working together makes it so much easier to get healthy with the family dynamic.

We decided to discuss the NC situation with our children in a direct way. Like most kids ours are more perceptive and thoughtful than we sometimes give them credit for being. We just explained that their grandparents are upset with us and that right now they don't want to talk to us. They have problems that they need to sort out on their own and we hope that they will get better soon so that we can see each other again. More or less that was it.

My wife's therapist explained that in her experience most children are much more connected to their nuclear family (mom, dad, siblings, pets) than they are with the extended family of aunts, uncles, and grandparents. Of course there are many exceptions with all of the different types of family units, but in general if that nuclear unit is intact and present and doing OK, the kids will do OK. So in reality, my kids don't ask very often about my parents at all. Rarely they will see something that makes them think of their grandmother and say that they wish she would get better so that we could see her again. My 10 year old is quick to remind the younger ones that my parents just don't want to talk with Mom and Dad right now and that when that changes we will probably see them again.

I believe honesty is the best policy, at least for us. No we don't go into the details about the silent treatment we are getting and how it has hurt us emotionally, or how angry we are at the way my parents are behaving. The kids just don't need that information right now. When they get a bit older, if this mess is still going on, we will explain everything in detail and get it in the open. My parents have had all kinds of secrets that they keep from me and from each other. I think that is unhealthy and so I decided I won't do that!