More Lawyer Trouble--Got Offer On Interim

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have had a very bad day. I am not surprised, but God I'd really like to have some good days, you know?

I'm gonna back up a bit, so I could maybe get advice.

Eleven year relationship. Ten year marriage. STBX lives on a trust. In the eleven years I've been with my STBX, I've worked maybe 3 months total. Online in order to catch up with some bills. (Long story, probably not relevant)

During the marriage, I lived on the Trust as well. Community property state. STBX and I were given money every month into the joint account.

In 2009, we also got a great deal of money to renovate the house. Also put into the joint account.

STBX at that time started spending so much money that I couldn't pay the bills, so I started moving money from the joint into my individual, so I could pay utilities, etc.

He started spending the renovation money on furniture. Huge, ghastly pieces he bought online and that weren't cheap. He bought a throne. He bought a massive daybed. When I suggested that buying furniture before we renovated wasn't a good idea because we wouldn't know where it should go, he told me that we'd just get new furniture and get rid of the other stuff. He was talking about furniture that cost $3000 for the throne, $1700 for a phone. I mean, it was a colossal waste of money.

It got so bad and so stressful for me that I filed for divorce in 2009. Worst experience ever. His family went after me mercilessly.

We reconciled. The reasons we did so are probably irrelevant.

So flash forward Aug. 2017. STBX files for divorce. I am instantly back in 2009. PTSD. I couldn't sleep, had a horrible spasm in my throat. Went to the doc got meds.

November 2017. My FIL, who is trustee of the trust, asks for a budget from me. I provide him a budget; he then tells me that he will have a CPA pay all the utility and upkeep bills: electric, gas, landscapers.

He then stops the CPA from giving me any money to live on. I am 65, about to turn 66. I have savings and a credit card.

I run though both of them pretty quickly because I am also paying legal fees.

Flash forward to March 2018. I work with my L on an interim offer. I want it backdated to when I got off. She tells me we would actually need to backdate it to when STBX left, which would delay my getting anything. So what she wants is for me to start the interim in March but with additional money that will make me whole regarding personal loans and credit card that I racked up because I have had no money.

Makes sense. I agree.

She then wants me to submit the initial settlement offer. I balk. I want the interim before I do anything.

She gets kind of threatening with me, tells me that I run the risk of being in court and having the issue of the consummation of the marriage come up. And if there was no consummation, then I would get nothing.

She also tells me that there's a saying in her office that pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered. She also suggests that I am the one delaying good-faith negotiation.

I ground myself. Put my feelings aside, put together a settlement offer, in which I acknowledge that she and I seem to be having a problem and I am offended by all of the above that I just mentioned, but I get that settlement offer in. I cut way back on the interim.

So now yesterday I get an email from her that the Trust (my FIL) wants to get money to me today, Friday. I know my FIL. I know how he handles things, so none of this really surprised me, but... .

I email my L at 3:30: Have you heard anything? Already, it is too late for me to get money because the powers that be are on East Coast time.

She writes back around 4:15 with the offer from FIL/Trust. They will give money for April and money for May (no back dated interim, no money to clear out my loans and my credit card) and in exchange they want my "cooperation" in getting all the household bills changed so that the Trust is the payee.

Okay.

So in January, I had a $1900 electric bill that the Trust didn't pay. I nearly had my electric turned off. I had to get on the phone and try to work out something so I could continue to have electric. This past month, I  had trash service suspended, which meant I had manure piling up and a few dead squirrels.

My FIL is not an honorable man.

I told my lawyer I was turning down their "offer," and I'd take my chances at the hearing we have scheduled for April 26, and, since she has not gotten paid, I understood if she couldn't be there, it would mean I'd have to be pro se. I was very polite but very clear that I understood that she couldn't work for nothing.

She then forwarded an email from FIL's attorney that my STBX would be filing his taxes married filing separately with a note that maybe I could scramble around this weekend to get mine filed.

I cannot file with my STBX's info because otherwise it looks like I lived on nothing. Meaning that I need it written into the settlement offer that STBX will cooperate in getting me info to file taxes.

At this point, I think I'm better off without my lawyer. What I thought I could do is check out the legal services available to me as a senior citizen (not income-based) or I can sell my car and rent one for a while, so I can see if I can get a different lawyer.

I think part of the problem that I'm running into (and I ran into it back in 2009) is that I come from very humble financial circumstances. I was an academic, an editor. Fine jobs. Admirable, but you'll never get rich doing them.

So it seems as if people/lawyers think I'm being greedy. I have lived a certain lifestyle for 11 years, and if that lifestyle changes, okay, but I need to fight. I provided stability for my husband. And at that time he had no contact with anyone in his family because he is so ill and so hostile and delusional that he's dangerous.

Advice? How bad is it to go pro se at least to the hearing. This is such a poor state, I just don't think that the court is going to be too cool about my being on food stamps, when my STBX and I lived on a Trust.

I don't want what isn't mine. I don't want to take half of his trust, but I sure as hell don't want to be on food stamps and unable to pay my credit card bill and people who were kind enough to loan me money.

Thanks if you read this far. I am so so so so fed up with pwBPD.

TMD
 

[toomanydogs]

I have had a very bad day. I am not surprised, but God I'd really like to have some good days, you know?

I'm gonna back up a bit, so I could maybe get advice.

Eleven year relationship. Ten year marriage. STBX lives on a trust. In the eleven years I've been with my STBX, I've worked maybe 3 months total. Online in order to catch up with some bills. (Long story, probably not relevant)

During the marriage, I lived on the Trust as well. Community property state. STBX and I were given money every month into the joint account.

In 2009, we also got a great deal of money to renovate the house. Also put into the joint account.

STBX at that time started spending so much money that I couldn't pay the bills, so I started moving money from the joint into my individual, so I could pay utilities, etc.

He started spending the renovation money on furniture. Huge, ghastly pieces he bought online and that weren't cheap. He bought a throne. He bought a massive daybed. When I suggested that buying furniture before we renovated wasn't a good idea because we wouldn't know where it should go, he told me that we'd just get new furniture and get rid of the other stuff. He was talking about furniture that cost $3000 for the throne, $1700 for a phone. I mean, it was a colossal waste of money.

It got so bad and so stressful for me that I filed for divorce in 2009. Worst experience ever. His family went after me mercilessly.

We reconciled. The reasons we did so are probably irrelevant.

So flash forward Aug. 2017. STBX files for divorce. I am instantly back in 2009. PTSD. I couldn't sleep, had a horrible spasm in my throat. Went to the doc got meds.

November 2017. My FIL, who is trustee of the trust, asks for a budget from me. I provide him a budget; he then tells me that he will have a CPA pay all the utility and upkeep bills: electric, gas, landscapers.

He then stops the CPA from giving me any money to live on. I am 65, about to turn 66. I have savings and a credit card.

I run though both of them pretty quickly because I am also paying legal fees.

Flash forward to March 2018. I work with my L on an interim offer. I want it backdated to when I got off. She tells me we would actually need to backdate it to when STBX left, which would delay my getting anything. So what she wants is for me to start the interim in March but with additional money that will make me whole regarding personal loans and credit card that I racked up because I have had no money.

Makes sense. I agree.

She then wants me to submit the initial settlement offer. I balk. I want the interim before I do anything.

She gets kind of threatening with me, tells me that I run the risk of being in court and having the issue of the consummation of the marriage come up. And if there was no consummation, then I would get nothing.

She also tells me that there's a saying in her office that pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered. She also suggests that I am the one delaying good-faith negotiation.

I ground myself. Put my feelings aside, put together a settlement offer, in which I acknowledge that she and I seem to be having a problem and I am offended by all of the above that I just mentioned, but I get that settlement offer in. I cut way back on the interim.

So now yesterday I get an email from her that the Trust (my FIL) wants to get money to me today, Friday. I know my FIL. I know how he handles things, so none of this really surprised me, but... .

I email my L at 3:30: Have you heard anything? Already, it is too late for me to get money because the powers that be are on East Coast time.

She writes back around 4:15 with the offer from FIL/Trust. They will give money for April and money for May (no back dated interim, no money to clear out my loans and my credit card) and in exchange they want my "cooperation" in getting all the household bills changed so that the Trust is the payee.

Okay.

So in January, I had a $1900 electric bill that the Trust didn't pay. I nearly had my electric turned off. I had to get on the phone and try to work out something so I could continue to have electric. This past month, I  had trash service suspended, which meant I had manure piling up and a few dead squirrels.

My FIL is not an honorable man.

I told my lawyer I was turning down their "offer," and I'd take my chances at the hearing we have scheduled for April 26, and, since she has not gotten paid, I understood if she couldn't be there, it would mean I'd have to be pro se. I was very polite but very clear that I understood that she couldn't work for nothing.

She then forwarded an email from FIL's attorney that my STBX would be filing his taxes married filing separately with a note that maybe I could scramble around this weekend to get mine filed.

I cannot file with my STBX's info because otherwise it looks like I lived on nothing. Meaning that I need it written into the settlement offer that STBX will cooperate in getting me info to file taxes.

At this point, I think I'm better off without my lawyer. What I thought I could do is check out the legal services available to me as a senior citizen (not income-based) or I can sell my car and rent one for a while, so I can see if I can get a different lawyer.

I think part of the problem that I'm running into (and I ran into it back in 2009) is that I come from very humble financial circumstances. I was an academic, an editor. Fine jobs. Admirable, but you'll never get rich doing them.

So it seems as if people/lawyers think I'm being greedy. I have lived a certain lifestyle for 11 years, and if that lifestyle changes, okay, but I need to fight. I provided stability for my husband. And at that time he had no contact with anyone in his family because he is so ill and so hostile and delusional that he's dangerous.

Advice? How bad is it to go pro se at least to the hearing. This is such a poor state, I just don't think that the court is going to be too cool about my being on food stamps, when my STBX and I lived on a Trust.

I don't want what isn't mine. I don't want to take half of his trust, but I sure as hell don't want to be on food stamps and unable to pay my credit card bill and people who were kind enough to loan me money.

Thanks if you read this far. I am so so so so fed up with pwBPD.

TMD
 

[ForeverDad]

Seems the trust or whoever behind it made a bare minimum incomplete counter offer.  It does appear likely the best bet is wait a couple weeks for the court hearing.  If the court questions why you didn't accept their interim offer, explain their offer appeared just to be window dressing so they didn't appear too bad in court.  With court less than two weeks away, you did not see a need to accept the bare bones they countered with.

Even if court is not totally fair, it generally is "less unfair" than the ex.

Make sure that you don't get cornered into being limited to your offer.  That was contingent upon a deal being accepted.  You have every right to rescind or withdraw a lapsed offer and be a little less tight when speaking with court.  Of course, we're not lawyers here.

If the two sides can't find agreement then it is likely court will only deal with the interim support, not the final outcome.  Be sure to ask for it to be retroactive to an appropriate date or event.

[toomanydogs]

Seems the trust or whoever behind it made a bare minimum incomplete counter offer.  It does appear likely the best bet is wait a couple weeks for the court hearing.  If the court questions why you didn't accept their interim offer, explain their offer appeared just to be window dressing so they didn't appear too bad in court.  With court less than two weeks away, you did not see a need to accept the bare bones they countered with.
Even if court is not totally fair, it generally is "less unfair" than the ex.

Thanks. This is encouraging. What they offered seemed much too low.

Make sure that you don't get cornered into being limited to your offer.  That was contingent upon a deal being accepted.  You have every right to rescind or withdraw a lapsed offer and be a little less tight when speaking with court. 

Can you explain this? Do you mean the settlement offer? I've already planned on modifying it. In my state, a spouse can't waive the right to a) spousal support, or b) retirement plans (is that the right word?). The prenup I signed I waived the right to both without counsel explaining it wasn't enforceable in my state.
So I'm already planning on modifying the offer with a demand for retirement benefits, which I didn't know my STBX had, but in the prenup, it's written all over the thing that I waive my right to benefits before the we'd gotten married and any that may have accrued during the marriage.

If the two sides can't find agreement then it is likely court will only deal with the interim support, not the final outcome.  Be sure to ask for it to be retroactive to an appropriate date or event.

I will definitely be asking for the interim to be retroactive at least until November.
Thank you!
TMD

[flourdust]

In the short term, file for an extension on the taxes. You can figure that out later when the dust settles.

With these kind of settlements, it's easy to get caught up in all the little moving parts - utility bills, retirement funds, backdating, etc. It might help you to avoid getting lost in the details by putting it all into a spreadsheet and focusing on the bottom line number, rather than which account or bill is getting paid or split up.

If you can, counter the offer from FIL rather than letting negotiations come to a halt. I always put a counter back on the table. You never know when they might blink... .

You should also get some legal clarity from your attorney. You need to know what your rights are (and aren't). For example... .she says if there's no consummation, you get nothing. Is that true? Was there consummation? (I'm not asking for myself, but you need to know these things in black and white, so you understand what the law says you can have vs. what you feel you want or need.)

[toomanydogs]

Hi FlourDust,
  A lot of what I'm experiencing right now is PTSD from the first time I filed for divorce from my STBX. I get really anxious and paranoid. Not fun. Luckily, I have these boards, and I have two friends, who are attorneys, who are able to help.
  I already took care of the extension back in March because I knew (from prior experience) that I would be not be given the information I needed to file my taxes. Last time, I had to appeal to the IRS, not an extension, an actual appeal to find out what I could do since I was not given the info necessary to file.
  After talking with my two attorney friends, I worked up a counter-offer and just submitted it to my attorney.
  All this just for interim. I can only imagine what settlement will be like,
TMD

[flourdust]

Good! Sounds like you are making the right moves.

And, yes... .buckle up for a long and bumpy ride. These are high-conflict people who drag out unpleasant relationships ... .and that's how the divorces tend to go, too.