Aaarrghh. I am so tired of this...Opinions?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Well, I got the order for interim that I was asked to look at and approve. And I can't approve it.
If there are any IT people out there, I'd really appreciate advice.
In exchange for interim (I already have a problem as there should be no exchange necessary), I was asked to cooperate in transferring the name on the utility bills to that of my STBX's trust.
I have said from the start that I cannot transfer the name on utility bills because my STBX is on the utility bills. I consider utility bills to be electric, gas, and water.
The order, as written, indicates I will transfer the name on the Internet and Cable bill to the Trust.
Working for the trust is an extraordinarily gifted IT guy, so gifted he has a patent out on a type of VR. Very gifted.
The Internet account is a business account that STBX and I set up. I fully intend to hang on to the account. There is no reason for the Trust to pay for it. And given this IT's abilities, I don't want him in charge of my network. It is too big a risk.
Problem my L doesn't seem to understand this. She told me this is not the hill to die on. For me, it is.
What I propose is that since we have 2 internet accounts, I transfer the one I don't use. I did tell my L that, so in the event that something goes wrong... .Wording on the Order indicates that if STBX or I don't follow the order we can be put in jail or pay a fine. I'm not signing something like that.
Crap, I'm tired of this. Our court date is scheduled for Thursday. I didn't see the order until 7pm Monday. Gives me Tuesday to work it out as money is supposed to be released on Wednesday.
Tell me this wasn't intentional.
Looks to me like I'm going to court. Told my L that I was sorry, but transferring the Internet was non-negotiable.
Opinions?
TMD

[toomanydogs]

Well, I got the order for interim that I was asked to look at and approve. And I can't approve it.
If there are any IT people out there, I'd really appreciate advice.
In exchange for interim (I already have a problem as there should be no exchange necessary), I was asked to cooperate in transferring the name on the utility bills to that of my STBX's trust.
I have said from the start that I cannot transfer the name on utility bills because my STBX is on the utility bills. I consider utility bills to be electric, gas, and water.
The order, as written, indicates I will transfer the name on the Internet and Cable bill to the Trust.
Working for the trust is an extraordinarily gifted IT guy, so gifted he has a patent out on a type of VR. Very gifted.
The Internet account is a business account that STBX and I set up. I fully intend to hang on to the account. There is no reason for the Trust to pay for it. And given this IT's abilities, I don't want him in charge of my network. It is too big a risk.
Problem my L doesn't seem to understand this. She told me this is not the hill to die on. For me, it is.
What I propose is that since we have 2 internet accounts, I transfer the one I don't use. I did tell my L that, so in the event that something goes wrong... .Wording on the Order indicates that if STBX or I don't follow the order we can be put in jail or pay a fine. I'm not signing something like that.
Crap, I'm tired of this. Our court date is scheduled for Thursday. I didn't see the order until 7pm Monday. Gives me Tuesday to work it out as money is supposed to be released on Wednesday.
Tell me this wasn't intentional.
Looks to me like I'm going to court. Told my L that I was sorry, but transferring the Internet was non-negotiable.
Opinions?
TMD

[GaGrl]

I would not transfer any of the utilities. That makes it too easy for the trust to continue "owning" your maintenance. You are and by for the house anyway - Why give them any power over what you eventually want?

Definitely not the internet/network.

[toomanydogs]

I would not transfer any of the utilities. That makes it too easy for the trust to continue "owning" your maintenance. You are and by for the house anyway - Why give them any power over what you eventually want?

Definitely not the internet/network.

Thanks, Gagrl.
My L is not happy with me; however, neither the Internet or the Cable companies can comply with what FIL has requested.
My son thinks I'm paranoid, and I'm not. I'm simply exhausted. Went to bed at 11:30, woke up unable to sleep at 3.
I just feel too old for this. It just needs to stop.
TMD

[formflier]

I don't understand why you would die on this hill?

transfer everything that you can legally transfer... .if you can't... you can't.

Does the interim order prevent you from getting your own internet? 

I never got the vibe that you were a heavy user.  If you have privacy concerns, I would think that could be handled with a wireless account, through cell phones or whatever, for things that need to be private.

For the rest... .who cares if he finds out you stream beverly hillbillies... .or matlock... or whatever.

What am I missing here?

Please don't get wrapped up in explaining to them what you can and can't do.

Make sure the wording is that you will assist in transferring... .then prove in writing that you did your best.

I would make sure there is a "penalty" in there if they do not provide their service... .but the key is that they pay utilities and pay you in arrears.  That is happening... right?

FF

[ForeverDad]

This is the proposed order they wrote.  This may not be the last.  Odds are that future proposals may be better but still not good or fair.  Let the court listen and rule, odds are the judge will be "less unfair".  Of course everything in it will be in their favor, what else would you expect?

If the final order uses the paper they prepared, the judge will strike out any clauses that were dropped, edit any modifications and add any additions.  If it is totally different the judge may issues his/her own decision or require his wishes to be written up in an interim order.

Don't let this fake you out.  Don't let this freak you out.  They surely know how distressing this is to you and that is their Leverage over you.  You wish desperately that they would be polite, nice and fair but they know that court doesn't require them to be either polite, nice or fair.  It just is what it is.  Put on your emotional raincoat, galoshes and umbrella.  Weather the storm.  This too shall pass.

[DoxieLover]

Hello TMD!

I have been following your story and I am sorry for all you are going through and having to deal with.  At any rate, I am in IT so I thought I would chime in and ask you a few follow up questions.

What I’m relation to the network are you worried about?  I don’t know who you get your internet access through but if you are worried your FIL can ask for a history of the websites you visit, you can call your internet provider to find out if they ever honor these types of requests with or without a court order.  Otherwise, if you are concerned about email that you receive/send from an internet service provider account (I.e. - TMD@comcast.com), I would suggest changing to an email account such as gmail or yahoo.  They are free and can be accessed regardless of service provider.  (You can forward any emails you want to keep from your existing account to the new account and then delete them from the old account.  At that point, it is usually very challenging for the service provider to be able to restore a copy of them.  And again, I’m not sure they could do so without a court order.  I would imagine a judge wouldn’t grant an order like that once you argue that you were the primary user on that account from date X to date Y.)

Anyway, I hope this helps. If you can give me a better idea of your concerns, I’ll see if I can give you more information.

Take care.

[toomanydogs]

Hello TMD!

I have been following your story and I am sorry for all you are going through and having to deal with.  At any rate, I am in IT so I thought I would chime in and ask you a few follow up questions.

Thank you!

What I’m relation to the network are you worried about?

What I was worried about was that my FIL was asking to be an administrator on the Internet. I have a business account with Comcast. Administrators can remote access the modem. Access to the modem--the back end--provides access to my network password. It's in asterisks; however, all you have to do is click "Show Password."
I was specifically worried about a man who works for my FIL.
However... .
Comcast told me to request paper bills sent to FIL. They shared my concern about adding an administrator to the account.
And DirectTV flat out told me they couldn't transfer the name on the account because it's bundled with my cell phone.
So the insomnia--all of it--was for naught.
Also, heavy irony here, I heard again from my lawyer, and she told me she thought I'd reread the part about transferring service.
Finally, part of the reason I am so suspicious of my FIL and his band of whatever is that they have been not at all truthful with me.
My MIL once told me she wanted to send me a credit card (this was about 10 years ago), so I could get my teeth fixed. First, she scolded me about making sure I used the card only for my teeth because that's the agreement and didn't I want to be true to my word. Then she said she couldn't put me on the card without my SSN, so I gave her that.
Never got the card. My guess is she wanted to run a background check.
And the thing is, I would have run a background check on me, as well. They didn't know me. They are worth money. And their son's a friggin' mess. But she tried to fool me.
My FIL said all the right things about setting up an estate plan for me (prenup doesn't cover what happens if STBX dies) but he never did anything. And I gave him 3 years.
Truth is, I was expendable, even to the point of possibly dying.
I am deeply suspicious of them. And I'm working very hard on making sure that the suspiciousness is directed at them only. Most people are good.
Thanks again,
TMD  

 

[formflier]

Don't let this fake you out.  Don't let this freak you out.  They surely know how distressing this is to you and that is their Leverage over you.  You wish desperately that they would be polite, nice and fair but they know that court doesn't require them to be either polite, nice or fair. 

I think there is a good chance they "know" and are using this to their advantage... .

There is also a decent chance... .they are just doing what they do... .and it's getting to you.

I hate to say don't take this personally... but... make it about business...


Listen... .cell phones can be changed... new accounts can be set up... ., what matters is to get them on the hook... .NOW!   for utilities and care of property.

Is lawn care in there?  Like... really nice lawn care. 

Perhaps you claim that since stbx used to do all this physical labor... .they need to pay to replace it... .(see... .how you can push back?)

But... .the big thing is to get them sending you money... .paying your lawyer bill... .

This will give you room to breathe

FF

[toomanydogs]

I hate to say don't take this personally... but... make it about business...

Hey FF, It's good to hear from you.
Here's what happens for me. I do make it about business, and I gather all my emotional energy, identify what I need--ie, housekeeping, money coming in until the divorce settles--and I email my lawyer being firm but not emotionally charged.
And then after I do that, I collapse emotionally, meaning I sleep for hours in the middle of the day and try to regain my strength in preparation to fight my FIL again.
My FIL went from having no money to having huge amounts of it, and he did it by negotiating, and by seeing negotiations--even with a former daughter-in-law--as opportunities to win, no matter the cost.
It is nothing personal on his part. I make sure that he has no idea what he's doing to me. I haven't cracked publicly, so he'd have any idea what he's doing to me.

I need to digress for a minute: You are a religious man, and something incredible happened to me today.
For the past three months or so, my fingernails have been hurting me. I used to get acrylics because of how much I use my hands on the farm stuff. I needed nails that stayed clean looking and wouldn't tear off.
I haven't had money or energy to do much of anything regarding them. (And there's a payoff here, I promise.)
So two weeks ago, I found a salon that does a special type of nail that heals nails as damaged as mine were (my nail beds themselves had bled. truly they were hurting me.)
So I've been planning on getting my nails done this morning at 10:30.
Well... .all the stuff with the order, the argument with my L, happened, and it got to me, so I woke up at 3. I couldn't get back to sleep, so I emailed my L, trying to get her to understand my position her, acknowledging she didn't really know me and perhaps didn't understand my perspective.
Didn't go quite as well as I'd wanted. L told me I couldn't back out of what I'd agreed to.
Anyway, cut to the chase:
I felt tired. Angry. Vulnerable. Weepy. And so so so so tired. I didn't want to drive the 15 miles to this nail salon.
And I (my sister says Holy Spirit) talked myself into it. The salon books two weeks out. My nails hurt every time I used my hands.
So I sucked it up, drank coffee, tried to wake up.
Flash forward. My nail tech was this beautiful soul with such a deep faith. We talked about God. We talked about how angry I had been at Him when my mom died, how I couldn't get over that anger until my daughter was my born, how I had realized the mistake of being angry, of turning my back on Him.
I told her about my L, how she didn't seem to understand my perspective. I told her about my in-laws, some of what they've done over the years. How their money has made them people I don't really like.
I told her about my adult kids and how hard it is for them to see me in pain and how they urge me to do what my L advises and how I can't because I know the situation better than my L or my kids. I know my in-laws.
FF, she asked if she could pray for me. I said of course, and I thought she would pray sometime later today or this evening, but no. When my nails were dry she brought into the break room, took my hands and prayed. For me. For my kids. For my lawyer. She prayed that I'd remain steadfast, hang on to the gift of discernment. Even now, what she did makes me cry.
She reminded me of the goodness in people, the goodness in God, in love, community, connection.
And then, because I'd mentioned my birthday is tomorrow, she said she wanted to give me the gift of doing my nails.
I told her she couldn't do that, but she said she really wanted to do that.
I cried all the way home, left messages for my sisters, called a friend and cried. What this divorce--as horrible as it is--is teaching me is that I am loved. I am valued. And it is okay for me to embrace my value.
God didn't make a mistake. He made me who I am. And He's with me.

Still crying.

Is lawn care in there?  Like... really nice lawn care.  

Yes. Lawn care is paid for. And just now, with this order, they will pay for housekeeping. I have a big house. Housekeeping means I will finally have my house clean all at once. I do it in stages and get bored.

Perhaps you claim that since stbx used to do all this physical labor... .they need to pay to replace it... .(see... .how you can push back?)

You have no idea how this made me laugh. My STBX is 20 years younger than I am, 100 pounds heavier, and a foot taller. And yet he can't carry two twelve-packs of soda without getting winded. In the meantime, I lift 50-pound bags of animal feed. Yes, they're really heavy, and yes I have little style or finesse while doing so, but I can do it. Without getting winded. :D

But... .the big thing is to get them sending you money... .paying your lawyer bill... .

This will give you room to breathe

FF

Agreed. Tomorrow, I should be getting three months in back interim, interim for April, and interim for May. Breathing room.

Thank you, FF.
TMD    

[formflier]

Hey... I hope you get the point about claiming he does the labor.  It's kinda funny and something may come of it.

It's also something easy to drop... .assuming they drop their preposterous claims.



Hey... .listen...   there is a vibe I'm getting about the relationship between you and your L.  Perhaps I'm thinking you are expecting too much from her.  Or that there is confusion about her role.

Is it possible you are wanting more "personal" stuff from your L that you are not getting? 

Please... .this is something I'm mentioning... but not really sure of. 

   

I love the story about getting your nails done... .praying... that's good stuff!

FF

[GaGrl]

Love the story about your nails... .I believe in human "angels" who appear in our path for a reason. There are no accidents.

OK... .to harp on a previous topic... .I would not give them leverage on "owning" your utilities. ESPECIALLY on anything that could provide access to a network.

I work for company that provides telecom, internet and video services. I understand the reach of network services and the security issues associated with access. There are so many ways for your personal data to be breached  - Why invite someone in? No, no, no.

Also, you've mentioned some very suspicious activity on your STBX's part re: the dark web. Do you want to give someone access to follow those crumbs and perhaps attach to you?

Not worth it.

[toomanydogs]

Hey... .listen...   there is a vibe I'm getting about the relationship between you and your L.  Perhaps I'm thinking you are expecting too much from her.  Or that there is confusion about her role.

Is it possible you are wanting more "personal" stuff from your L that you are not getting? 

Please... .this is something I'm mentioning... but not really sure of. 

   


FF

Hi FF,
  My opinion on my lawyer. For whatever reason, we occasionally clash. It's odd. For example, originally STBX side offered me for interim a check for April and a check for May. That was it. Nothing to catch me up. Nothing going forward past May.
  My L advised that I take it. That it was a good offer. And then we could focus on settlement. Clearly, it wasn't a good offer. I told her I didn't have a problem with the per month amount, I had a problem that there was nothing going forward, and that if STBX got back to our offer the end of May and we needed to counter offer, I'd have nothing for June, nothing to sustain me.
  I told her without any money coming in, I couldn't function. Truth. I forgot I'd lit candles in another room. When in the room for something else. The wax was in the process of catching fire. I have forgotten there's water running. Not having any money at all has been so stressful that I can't think straight. I told her that's what my FIL intended.
  I think the issue is that I live in a very poor state. My STBX's family is incredibly wealthy. And  I think she's occasionally thought I was being greedy.
  I don't think I'm expecting her to be like a therapist or anything to me, and I'll tell you what my own T said about my L: "TMD, I understand what you're saying. And I definitely see the two of you are clashing, but she is doing what you're asking, even if it's requiring you to be really insistent with her."
  So I think I've got a good idea who she is. She knows the law, but I know my STBX, and I know his family.
  And good news! Today, the order for interim was signed. I get arrearages--not as much as I'm owed but enough--and I get money going forward. I am satisfied with how this turned out. Now onto settlement.    
TMD
P.S. I loved getting my nails done, loved what the woman praying for me, and then insisting on treating me to my nails. People are good.

[toomanydogs]

Love the story about your nails... .I believe in human "angels" who appear in our path for a reason. There are no accidents.

Wasn't that cool? What a wonderful woman.

OK... .to harp on a previous topic... .I would not give them leverage on "owning" your utilities. ESPECIALLY on anything that could provide access to a network.

I work for company that provides telecom, internet and video services. I understand the reach of network services and the security issues associated with access. There are so many ways for your personal data to be breached  - Why invite someone in? No, no, no.

Also, you've mentioned some very suspicious activity on your STBX's part re: the dark web. Do you want to give someone access to follow those crumbs and perhaps attach to you?

Not worth it.

Turns out the whole issue was moot. First, the language in the order was not clear that I needed to turn over my internet to them. Second, my internet & cable company won't do it. Because of security risks.
So, my L and I argued pretty much for no reason.
Thanks!
TMD

[formflier]

I am glad you have something signed... .how soon until money in hand?

Does your L bill get paid up?

FF

[ForeverDad]

How did the hearing yesterday go?  Probably you're still processing it all.  I figure it wasn't great but also wasn't as bad as you thought it would be.  You can get through this.  No matter how you feel now, remember that this old saying is true... .There's light at the end of the tunnel.

[formflier]

I'm anxiously waiting to hear as well!

 

Hoping there is an outcome that moves you in a better direction!

FF

[toomanydogs]

I am glad you have something signed... .how soon until money in hand?

Does your L bill get paid up?

FF

I GOT MONEY TODAY! IN MY HAND! I can breathe.
I'll get another check May 1.
I can breathe. I can breathe.
And, yes, my L got paid, as well.
TMD

[toomanydogs]

How did the hearing yesterday go? 

Hi ForeverDad,
 No hearing. The issue of interim was agreed to on both sides. I didn't get as much in arrearages as I was owed, but that's okay. The order filed with the court included my lawyer's language regarding our right to reserve re-examining arrearages. (Wow, that's a mouthful.)
 Both sides compromised, and I am okay with the amount I received, and I think it bodes well for settlement that we can indeed compromise.
TMD

[ForeverDad]

Courts prefer settlements.  So do lawyers.  As impossible as it seems, settlements can even occur in our cases.  However, quick settlements almost never happen, it is generally a long struggle when dealing with unreasonable people and often a "less unfair" settlement happens only when the timing gets tight and goes right down to the wire.

[toomanydogs]

Courts prefer settlements.  So do lawyers.  As impossible as it seems, settlements can even occur in our cases.  However, quick settlements almost never happen, it is generally a long struggle when dealing with unreasonable people and often a "less unfair" settlement happens only when the timing gets tight and goes right down to the wire.

Our hearing was scheduled for April 26, a Thursday. We (L and I) didn't get a reasonable counter offer (reasonable in my opinion anyway) until late April 24.
The language in the order indicated I was to be paid on April 25. That didn't happen; however, the checks were in my STBX's office, so my L advised, and I agreed, to receive payment on the 26th.
However... .
STBX's lawyer made the checks out to my lawyer. Knowing my STBX and having a glimpse into STBX's lawyer, I'm fairly sure it wasn't a "simple" mistake but rather an "intentional" mistake. Whatever.
I now have money in my account and the very first thing I did was start paying people back. Feels unbelievably good.
Now, we move to settlement.
And I am pretty certain that as you write, ForeverDad, that we won't get a reasonable counter offer unless we have a court date hanging over our head for a "trial on the merits."
God, it's good to breathe again.
Happy Saturday!
TMD

[Panda39]

STBX's lawyer made the checks out to my lawyer. Knowing my STBX and having a glimpse into STBX's lawyer, I'm fairly sure it wasn't a "simple" mistake but rather an "intentional" mistake. Whatever.

Interesting... .to see if they could buy your Lawyer or just slowdown the process?... .definitely some shenanigans here.

I've been following your story so glad that you got what you needed out of this battle and can exhale

Panda39