Letting it roll off for a day or two

[formflier]

I took my wife out tonight for nice steak dinner to celebrate her getting the highest rating for her teacher evaluation.

She teaches 2nd grade.

For those new to my story, increasing intimacy will usually trigger some sort of "sabotage" or "push back" from her on the push pull stage.  I normally stay aloof... .and she is normally "pulling" me in slightly,.

So... I wasn't shocked that something came up.

We did a quick shopping trip on the way back.  We each took our own cart.  I was waiting on her at checkout line and she put her things in my cart and took off again... I assume for more shopping.

I checked out... went to car and called her to see what door she would come out... .and was waiting by that door.  The real reason I walked to the car was my back was hurting and I needed/wanted to get off my feet.

Anyway... .after the quick phone call... which she seemed ok on.

I get the texts below.

I'm kind of tired of the roomies thing... .

 Where we r just roomies with benefits,

 Not divorced but certainly not married,  

You check out without me so you don't have to pay for MY stuff... .

 I just thought we could shop together... .I will buy
 
I sent one text

You said Would you like to discuss in person why?


Anyway... she hops in the car and asks if I didn't want to pay for her stuff and that's why I went to the car.  I answer "no... that's not the reason"

She then asks if I didn't want to shop with her and is that the reason.  Again... I answer... "no"

I was waiting for her to ask for my reason... .she never did... so I only directly... succintly... answered her questions.  No real emotion shown.

She seemed agitated the entire way home.

Ignoring me now.  No... she didn't say thanks for dinner.

This is our pattern... .she wants more... I give more... she sabotages... pushes away... .so I rarely give more.

My plan is to sit on this for day or so... .and pick a time to address this... .somehow.

FF

[Turkish]

This seems kind of game playing on your part.  You knew how she would likely react,  and you stepped into the [Punative] Parent Role to catch her (Child) like "aha!" But i could interpret the interaction with the roles reversed as well.  It sounds a little like NIGYYSOB. Are you familiar with Eric Berne and his book Games People Play?

Why not say,  "ffw, my back is hurting and I'm going to the car, " rather than trying the "gotcha?"

[once removed]

what i hear from her is that she doesnt like the separate carts thing. makes her feel like roomies, and separate.

why separate carts?

[babyducks]

Hey FF,

Money and financial stuff has always been a red hot push button for your wife.   Always.   She has often represented the idea/feeling that she feels 'cheated' of something rightfully hers.   I would say she feels a strong need to be taken care of financially.    and I would guess that ties back to her family of origin where she likely didn't 'get' what she felt she needed.

from what I have observed in previous posts, she shops to self soothe.    impulse buying as kind of a safety valve.   I am mildly curious,   the stuff she went back for?   stuff on the list ?   or just stuff she 'had' to have.   if it was just stuff she had to have because she saw it and liked it,  by you not buying it, by you not being in the store, you were blocking her for getting her needs met.  (not intentionally,  more her perception)    this is still a needs entitlement war,... .she needed something and you were not providing it so she fired a volley.

I'm with Turkish... .my back is hurting and I need to get off my feet now, has to be part of this conversation somewhere.    Ideally it should have been as soon as you checked out, and left the store.     If not then it should have been part of the conversation in the car.

this:

You check out without me so you don't have to pay for MY stuff... .

I read this as FF you aren't taking care of my needs.  You aren't helping me get what I want.     No one ever takes care of my needs.    Somebody should always be taking care of my needs.    Pretty typical disordered thinking.

I wouldn't address it after the fact.   I read the divorce threat as a reflection of her feeling abandoned in the store not as a real threat.   I read the 'not divorced but not married' as a reflection of her idea of marriage,... .more a melding into an amoeba like oneness not two separate individuals sharing a life.   I wouldn't validate that.

If it does come up,  I would validate the unusually complicated financial life you have,  and that it does have it's difficulties.   I would acknowledge her frustration.   Yeah it was a tough shopping trip,  lots to buy for a big family.    I would separate the two events the dinner and the shopping.   Making sure to say how nice the steak dinner was.

my two cents.

'ducks

[Sunfl0wer]

Gonna speak from the non popular opinion side of things maybe.

So why would you need to JADE?
Why defend or explain your behavior?

Even if you do, you are very aware, it will only serve to dig you deeper at this point.

I don’t understand why it would be your job to premptively JADE either.

Your wife is triggered by her own sense of entitlement.
Nothing will change that.  Nothing you say.

She is also further triggered by the reality of your physical limitations and disability.  She is likely to feel angry and more entitled for you to “blame it on your disability.”

You are clearly in a double bind of her delusion.

One delusion chioce is no better than another and validating the invalid is NOT COOL.

I don’t think there is anything you could have done to not trigger her except the fact that you “pushed” and it felt too good to her.  She is “defending” her own fear of intimacy.

Imo
Stepping back and watching it all play out, from this observers stance you are now taking, is the only way to get yourself not on any drama triangle rung at this point.

Behaving like your wife can handle intimacy is NOT “wrong.”  Yet, it has been done and that is that.  She is doing what she does... .reacting.  You did what you do... .showed her you are a consistent husband who is “responsive,” will endure some of her working it out at you, but not getting sucked into her and playing the game of her delusional choice.  You behaved according to same values you always do.  You are being the steady rock she is testing you to be.

She was not to be treated like a victim at the store or any time after... .that would be poor boundaries and you playing the Karpman game.  (And of course you know it otherwise you would have JADED or swooped in for a rescue role.)

Good on u

Your wife is upset to be facing the consequences of her actions.  She is upset because you do not treat her like a person responsible with finances... .‘cause she IS NOT a responsible partner.  Yet she can use you treating her not responsible to throw herself on the victim rung.
She is sitting with her own consequences, her reality, the reality of her position... .what more is there to do? Nothing.

[formflier]

 

why separate carts?

That's the odd part... .she suggested it (actually did it... but she did "mention" grabbing a cart and going... there was no discussion... .)  

We stopped by "real quick" on our way home.  I wanted to get swimmers ear drops and I knew we needed milk.  She said she needed deodorant and a few other things.

So... I let her take the lead in this and set it up the way she wanted.  I really didn't care either way.  I figured this was a "functional" thing... .vice a "relationship thing"... especially after she went off by herself.

I got my stuff... and a few other things I saw and was waiting by the checkout.  She comes zipping by... .put hair color and deodorant in my cart and zipped off again.

OK... when we walk around together, we usually go at a slow speed because of how I get around.  (perhaps this is what I need to clarify for her... it's been a while)

So... .I can't answer for her on why separate carts.  It didn't bug me in the least.  I would have been fine with walking around together, I just couldn't do it at full speed.

Hope this answers it.

FF

[formflier]

Why not say,  "ffw, my back is hurting and I'm going to the car, " rather than trying the "gotcha?"

Ahh ok... .she wasn't there to say that to in person.  After she dropped off the hair color and deodorant she zipped off again.

The self checkout became open in front of me... .my back was hurting... .she was not there... .I checked out and sent her text that I was going to go get the car (she didn't respond to text).

I got to the car and since there were a couple doors and I figured she would come out the one that we DID NOT go in... and there was potential for confusion... plus she hadn't responded... .I placed a call to her.

She answered.  I asked what door she would come out and confirmed it was as I assumed... so I parked right by door.

No discussion either way about why... but she seemed "perky" and "ok".  No hint on the phone that there was any concern whatsoever... none.

No... I didn't mention my back.  It is rare that she is supportive/understanding of my disabilities.  So... .I rarely mention them anymore. 

FF

[formflier]

 
I read this as FF you aren't taking care of my needs.  You aren't helping me get what I want.     No one ever takes care of my needs.    Somebody should always be taking care of my needs.    Pretty typical disordered thinking.
 

I agree this is a very likely analysis of what she was thinking.

I honestly don't know what she bought... .looked like two plastic bags worth.

OK... gotta love store apps.  We each bought 9 items.  4 of them items in my nine were her things she dropped off.  2 deodorants and 2 hair colors. 

My cart total was just under $20.

She bought 9 items for 81.53.

5 items were gum and mints.  Then there was a "womans top"... .a barbie... .a rapunzel bow... .and a $13.99 "magazine" (I don't really care... but that has me curious)... .a $13 magazine?

Not sure if that adds to things or helps shed light.

FF

[babyducks]

Sounds to me like she was shopping to soothe and when it didn't soothe her she lashed out.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting you JADE.  I'm suggesting you provide a reasonable amount of information about where you went and why.

Maybe she hears your back was hurting and she gets triggered again.    That's on her.   You did what you needed to do the best you could.    As I think about it,   not telling her your back is done for the day doesn't offer you many possible good outcomes.

[formflier]

You are clearly in a double bind of her delusion.
 

Yeah... .I hate heads I win... tails you loose.

Stepping back and watching it all play out, from this observers stance you are now taking, is the only way to get yourself not on any drama triangle rung at this point.

While I didn't specifically think of drama triangle when I sent my text... .I did pause as I saw the texts rolling in and think "what succinct thing can I say... .that let's her know I'm not ignoring her... .I would like to talk to her... .yet also have some of my values in it... .perhaps state a boundary"

So... "would you like to discuss in person why?"  I'm not making a demand, I'm asking a direct question, I'm acknowledging she is (in a manner) asking a question, I'm letting her know that I will discuss that in person... if she would like"  (sort of restating a boundary that I don't debate things such as that via text)

She is doing what she does... .reacting.  You did what you do... .showed her you are a consistent husband who is “responsive,” will endure some of her working it out at you, but not getting sucked into her and playing the game of her delusional choice.  You behaved according to same values you always do.  You are being the steady rock she is testing you to be.

Yeah... .I wasn't surprised that this came up.  Perhaps not that "this" was the exact thing that she did... but that after a really nice steak dinner (which was intimacy... it was a really nice dinner.  Great conversation... .loved it) that there was some dysfunctional reaction.

 Yet she can use you treating her not responsible to throw herself on the victim rung.

Can you expand on the above quote?

She is sitting with her own consequences, her reality, the reality of her position... .what more is there to do?

So... seems like there is a guy that often posts here that says "let them connect their own dots... .

Perhaps that's the advice I should follow.

FF

[formflier]

Maybe she hears your back was hurting and she gets triggered again.    That's on her.   You did what you needed to do the best you could.    As I think about it,   not telling her your back is done for the day doesn't offer you many possible good outcomes.

You know... .my first reaction to this is "you are right".

By "withholding" information that normal people in a normal relationship would share "Hey... I need to sit down for a bit... my back is acting up... "  I could see some argue that (as I have often argued) "I was attempting to save my wife  from reality"

Just like I took her out to dinner... .knowing full well that is was "more likely than not" that something that might look like "sabotage" would happen... .I did it anyway... .because normal people celebrate things like that (getting the highest marks possible on her evaluation).
 
It's one thing to present my wife with medical information and ask if she agrees... .or demand that she agree with doctors... .or some such thing.  Compared to:  "Hey... my back is done for... I'm going to the car to sit."

FF

[babyducks]

I'm going to suggest if you want her to connect the dots you give her more dots to work with.    Poor executive functioning after all.

As far as she knew you were in the store and then you weren't.   Her mind jumped to fill in the blanks following her script.


Let's talk about it later can be dismissive and baiting.  It also keeps the topic going perhaps longer than it should.

My two cents.

[formflier]

I'm going to suggest if you want her to connect the dots you give her more dots to work with.    Poor executive functioning after all.

As far as she knew you were in the store and then you weren't.   Her mind jumped to fill in the blanks following her script.


Let's talk about it later can be dismissive and baiting.  It also keeps the topic going perhaps longer than it should.

My two cents.

I think you are right.

So... .my "big picture" is to give her more dots, yet stay away from "explaining" the dots to her. 

So... perhaps she would not have accused me of not wanting to pay... .but she would have accused me of faking something... .or "making it all about me and my needs"

Or she may not have... .since I would think that is a "bigger leap" than just saying i left because I didn't want to pay. 

Either way... it's on her.

FF

[babyducks]

Cross posted.   Sorry.

Providing a reasonable amount of pertinent information is a politeness most couples do for each other.  In normal relationships.

Your wife might not buy into your reality because of her disordered thinking.   That's a strong possibility.

Seems to me not sharing "my back has had it for today "  really boxes both of you into a corner.

[juju2]

Hi f,

What I see w pwBPD, He doesn't like surprises, unless he is the one doing that.  He likes to know how it is going to go.  So, under your scenario, have learned to say (not always do I remember though), hey, when i check out, am going to the car.  See you at the south entrance.

Something like that.

then, he has the opportunity to say, xyz, I will be right back, just a few things, aren't you paying for the groceries (xyz) etc. since he is quick to say what he needs... .
We are not perfect.  

slow and steady :0)

[Sunfl0wer]

Cross posted.   Sorry.

Providing a reasonable amount of pertinent information is a politeness most couples do for each other.  In normal relationships.

Your wife might not buy into your reality because of her disordered thinking.   That's a strong possibility.

Seems to me not sharing "my back has had it for today "  really boxes both of you into a corner.

Wondering if there is something to this... .

While it is not your responsibility to “pick up”her emotions... .
You “could have” chosen to do some soothing by way of... .
Tying in the delusion a bit and your reality... .

Like... .
SET?
S: Oh crap FFW... .
E:  It did look like I was being insensitive and trying to escape paying... .wow! Was not at all my intent baby cakes and can understand why you are upset.  (I mean... .not mandatory to sooth her at this point, imo... .but heck... .it IS a valid option too no?)
T:  my back is pretty sore so I rushed off to the car.

Then
DROP IT let it sit there and continue your strong rock mode.

Yet... .idk...
Just tossing idea around here fwiw

[babyducks]

I would actually keep the SET even smaller than that.

FF wife,  hey it must have felt weird me leaving the store last night.  That wasn't my intention.   My back was pretty sore so I rushed to the car to sit down.

And then drop it.

[Sunfl0wer]

So... "would you like to discuss in person why?"  I'm not making a demand, I'm asking a direct question, I'm acknowledging she is (in a manner) asking a question, I'm letting her know that I will discuss that in person... if she would like"  (sort of restating a boundary that I don't debate things such as that via text)

I think your P would approve.  You gave her options.  You did not corner her.  You left the option to talk as an option, she heard it... .it is up to her to drink.  (Lead horse to water, can’t make em drink... .”forcing” her to drink would have been you contributing to her discomfort.  You cannot make her make healthy decisions... .you can only provide her the means by making it as easy for her as possible then leaving her there to drink or not drink or complain she is thirsty while staring at the fresh stream of water to spite you.)

... .

My quote:

Yet she can use you treating her not responsible to throw herself on the victim rung

You treating her like she is not responsible:  
Your wife has consistently proven to you that she is not responsible.
You have taken a RA approach and you
Believe her.
She has misused monies and been irresponsible to the family in how she emotionally is tied to money and wants to use it to rescue her dad or other such stuff.

When you walked away with purchasing your chosen items... .

I am sure she was reminded that
Ffw is NOT responsible with money.

While true... .I’m sure this stung her on some level.
How does she deal?  She externalizes the feelings.

Had you had a relationship with a non BPD wife who you feel was a fair financial partner in leading your family... .I do not believe you would have behaved as you did.

On some level, she must be aware that she is being treated like she is irresponsible... .or even if you didnt do it at that moment... .I guess this was triggered in her somehow.  (Bound to happen... .as RA dictates... .she is NOT responsible... .a fact)

If she had been a good financial guardian of the family... .
You likely would have picked up the tab of items in her cart as intermingling items/bank accounts... .would not matter.  I’m assuming that even if the items in her cart were not frivolous... .you likely would have left her to make her own decision on what to put in her cart to purchase or not.

You are now in a habit of leaving her to make purchasing decisions... .which she rather feel a “kept woman” and not in the position to do.

She likely is equating “love” with purchasing stuff for her.  Aka... .removing her from feeling responsible for making financial decisions.  

Choosing to buy my make up over my sons doctor bill... .is a reality I rather not have.  I recall the days in my youth where a man spoiled me and took me out and surprised me by grabbing the tab on everything as we went out together... .like shopping together was some form of a romantic date.  She likely was beating herself up for romanticising the shopping... .and feeling her ego bruised that you “left her there” with her purchases.

That is NOT reality here.

You have lots of fricken kids man!
Money is not disposable.  Not by your values/reality anyway.

She is not your “date” to spoil.  She is your wife.
Things are changed from that first few months of dating.

I just wonder if she is resentful and feels entitled to be spoiled/romanticized and treated like an 18 year old back in 1970 on a first few dates level of connection.

So... .
She had a wee fantasy
You spoiled her a little
Then she had to sabotage it
Cause she wanted to prove to herself it just wasn't “real”

So she put up a protest behavior
Proved herself
“Right”

And now her world will return to homeostasis

... .

Oh, I like babyducks simple fix!

(confession that I need to adjust in my own head:  Sometimes I see “mirroring drama” premptively as a way to get emotions to feel validated ... .a way to descalate a person.  Yet... .maybe that is manipulative of me... .idk... .something for me to think on, for sure.)

[PeteWitsend]

... .
I was waiting for her to ask for my reason... .she never did... so I only directly... succintly... answered her questions.  No real emotion shown.

She seemed agitated the entire way home.
... .

I gotta echo some of the other comments here.  I think at this point you should've asked something like "What's bothering you?" or offered up some empathy, like "You feel like we're just roommates because I walked to the car?  My back was bothering me.  sorry I should've texted that."

It seems to me in this case you're not losing anything by offering to meet her halfway, so to speak, instead of doing the silent treatment thing yourself.

Of course, she overreacted here... .but for some reason, I don't think it's that egregious on her part.  Maybe because it sounds like she didn't do it with outright hostility?

I think sometimes overreactions from a BPD are extreme enough to justify strict boundary enforcement (however you do it), but in other times, you can tell (if you can remain calm... .easier said than done I know) that they are exercising as much restraint as they can, even if they are still overreacting.  on those occasions I think you can respond to them with empathy, without creating an incentive for them to violate boundaries.

In my own case, I think what sets me over the edge is whether she's hostile or not.  If she asks to know who I'm texting, I might be annoyed either way, but if she does it in an accusatory, hostile manner, I see it more as a controlling manipulative tactic, and I have trouble staying calm.  if she askes out of a sense of concern, like "Hey, the kids are waiting in the car, what are you doing?" I'm less likely to be upset, and can defuse the situation myself. 

[Fian]

It seems like your wife would like a more intimate relationship, but the push/pull dynamic makes you keep some distance in the relationship.  Is there a way that you can increase the intimacy yet avoid the push/pull?  Here are some thoughts off the top of my head:

• Be extra intimate just before you leave to go somewhere.
• Are there certain types of intimacy that aren't triggering?  You told us the story about the 2 of you just sitting and talking as the best day.  Why didn't that trigger her?

[formflier]

FF wife,  hey it must have felt weird me leaving the store last night.  That wasn't my intention.   My back was pretty sore so I rushed to the car to sit down.
 

I like this... .I really like this.  

I also appreciate the more thorough vetting of possibilities and points of view.  Very helpful to me to put the  entire episode in "proper context"

This is a "skirmish" (to go military)... .a "light probe".  I can't imagine she put much thought into it... .most likely just a reaction... .she did what she does... normally

Most likely she thought more about it later and realized there  was no more "fuel for the fire"... and so kinda stayed aloof and a bit agitated... .and very likely (as sunflower suggested) realized the "status" of the situation again... ."that I don't trust her with money".

At the risk of introducing rabit trails into this.

I would have happily paid for her stuff (assuming she was nice and pleasant).  Perhaps if she really was buying a "magazine" that cost a lot... .perhaps I would have inquired more.  I really doubt it was a "magazine" that we normally pay $3 for... .who knows.

In FF world it's more about her being nice... saying thank you... being pleasant about asking, rather than "hers and mine"

I enjoy providing (buying stuff) and I enjoy people that are thankful/appreciative.

Anyway... keep it up... this is helpful and look forward to sharing a quick SET... .then move along.

FF

[formflier]

It seems like your wife would like a more intimate relationship, but the push/pull dynamic makes you keep some distance in the relationship.  Is there a way that you can increase the intimacy yet avoid the push/pull?  Here are some thoughts off the top of my head:

• Be extra intimate just before you leave to go somewhere.
• Are there certain types of intimacy that aren't triggering?  You told us the story about the 2 of you just sitting and talking as the best day.  Why didn't that trigger her?

P and I have talked and we try to "read the tea leaves" about "what type" of intimacy it is... .but so far we have a pretty broad label.

It seems to apply to anyone... .even God.

So... when I see things that "most Christians" would say is growth and "getting closer to God"... .something is going to blow (basically there will be a push)

As her family runs around the drama triangle... .she will be "close" to her Mom... .and "far" from her sister... ."poof"... .it switches and doesn't "stay still" for a while.

She has a mentor teacher that is a "frenemy".  Full disclosure:  I've only said "hey" to this lady once or twice, but listening to my wife's stories... .they get closer... and then her mentor "plots against her".

Such as:  I'll try to be quick.  There are some rough kids in her class.  Police involvement with 2nd graders... .you have to work for that.  1 dad... 5 kids... 5 baby momma... .and oddly enough the kids stay with Dad... .and women cycle through and care for his kids.

Anyway... the kid had an outburst and made some very specific allegations of racism against my wife... with words that 2nd graders don't use... .very adult descriptions.

Nobody in school or CPS or police buys the allegations... but still... .in this day and age... formal investigations are concerning.  Perhaps this was 1.5 months ago.  And yeah... .I "relaxed" my boundaries... .listened... validated... .all that.

Anyway... .there was a day or two there where my wife was convinced the principal had put the mentor in place to "spy" on her... and uncover her racist tendencies... .they obviously were out to get her.

Yeah... that was fun.

Back to the post:

The sitting and talking thing, which we often did was before the flood on the farm.  So... really before "sh$t hit the fan"

We were very intimate (IMO)... . 

If you remember... .1994-2009 was very "normalish"... .although I'm certain that military lifestyle masked or whatever dynamics.  Perhaps I'm over thinking... but there were lots of honeymoons and then I would go away... .my wife could have her time... .I would come back... honeymoon phase... .wash rinse repeat.

FF

[Red5]

Morning FF,

So as I understand, yourself and Mrs. FF have (completely) separate $$ accounts, that have separate debit/visa type charge “cards”; or else accessibility to the subject/existing cash balance,

So Mrs. FF spends from her slushy account, and you; being completely separate in all regards, spend from your own slushy account, and never the twain shall meet; or else be intertwined; is this correct?

And she has been pretty much cool with this arrangement?

For a period of time now?

My own u/BPD wife also fawns, then goes to fright, and then fight, approaching, during, and then after any intimacy.

So I can certainly relate to that one…

And I have a bad back too, the Fighter Doc told me it was “crooked like a politician” upon my discharge physical, and then onto subsequent travels in the endless labyrinth of bureaucracy of the VA system, yeah, about ten minutes with a chainsaw, and I’m done for the day!

Maybe… Mrs. FF thought the “date” was still on, as you bought her a nice steak dinner, so she expected more “stuff” on the way home, “fawn”.
*Hair coloring
*Topside clothing
*Barbie/Rapunzel bow
*Breath mints/gum
*Last chance, checkout line magazine

Then when it went “Dutch”… enter “fright”?

Then when your sacroiliac light illuminated, and you egressed the scene, she went from “fright” to fight” on you… thoughts?

But wait, there’s more… I have begun to get the bad attitude, that I don’t like repeating myself, so if I say, “Hey Babe”… my back is killing me, I’m going to go inside, and get me a mason jar of water with a “limon twist”, “then I’m going to park my arse right here on this log for a while; whilst that chainsaw cools down for a spell”… I should only have to say that one time, and NOT have to explain it anymore… so when I get the “you’re a lazy bum for taking a hard break look”… from her, it does trip my circuit breaker a little, especially when it’s her idea to take down this oak tree in the first place…

Red5

[babyducks]

Jumping around rabbit trails,  I am going to say... .nope don't repeat yourself about the back being sore,  dont engage in a JADE.

Don't withhold information in a misguided attempt to protect something or someone.

Try to walk down the middle of the road,  sharing important information in a reasonable way.

It's a balancing act.  And I know it's hard to do.

[formflier]

So as I understand, yourself and Mrs. FF have (completely) separate $$ accounts, that have separate debit/visa type charge “cards”; or else accessibility to the subject/existing cash balance, …

So Mrs. FF spends from her slushy account, and you; being completely separate in all regards, spend from your own slushy account, and never the twain shall meet; or else be intertwined; is this correct?

And she has been pretty much cool with this arrangement?

For a period of time now?
 

So... .I think it was back in Octoberish... that I "cut" the last financial tie.

(briefly:  She had wanted to log in with my password to "our" joint bank account.  She demanded my password.  I said no.  She somehow used information she knew to reset the password, instead of using her own... . She also did some reckless spending.  Oh... .and when I tried to "solve" the issue and come to an agreement... .she threw a new bank card at me... which hit me... and said she didn't want or need my money.)

I've taken her at her word.  Everything was reset by me at bank (I had gotten an email saying "did you change you password) and I put something in my file to do extra verification for future changes

Note:  I have  pretty complicated financial life... multiple properties... .multiple accounts.  So... she still has a card to an account that hasn't been used much lately.  

A couple of times I'll shift money onto that card if it's something we've agreed on and I can't be there for some reason.

She has full time job and her check gets deposited into her account... .

Umm... .no... my wife is not cool with it.  But... .she really doesn't have a choice.  She threatened a bunch of doom... .I ignored it.  She understands that for that to ever come back together again... .there are a bunch of things I won't budge on, that she wants no part of.

I've not explicitly told her that it would take a post-nuptial agreement... .but she understands it would be a written thing that is detailed... no wiggle room.  She wants wiggle room.

And... she can wiggle all she wants with her money.  

I'm blessed that there is not a financial "need"... .as in we "need" both incomes to keep household running... and businesses... .so it limits the amount of problem solving we need to do.

Yes... it's dysfunctional... .but it works way better than what I was doing.

FF

[Notwendy]

Did you tell her your back hurt before you checked out and left?

If you didn't - this whole thing might have been averted with that communication.

This night was supposed to be about her and that was the expectation- you took her out to dinner to celebrate her achievement. This may have felt like togetherness to her. You stopped by the store to pick up some things. I get that- you have 8 kids and she could have appreciated the chance to shop without kids in tow.

Then - if she didn't know your back was hurting- from her point of view- you just left. Yes, you called her to tell her, but if she didn't know the reason, then she made her own reason out of the baggage between you over finances. ( FWIW I don't blame you for the arrangement, as she has not been reliable with the finances- but she does have feelings about it. That doesn't mean you give in to those feelings but they are there and so this episode triggered them).

The issue though doesn't seem like just over money but communication. Communicating your reason for leaving is a form of connection- letting her know what is on your mind. She may have reacted to that lack of communication. Maybe on another time it would not have been a big deal, but I think, on what she may have hoped was a date, it was disappointing to her and it felt more like a roommate situation than a marriage. The finances are likely at play here too, but perhaps communicating when you left the store might have pre-empted the reaction.

[Sunfl0wer]

In FF world it's more about her being nice... saying thank you... being pleasant about asking, rather than "hers and mine"

I have a concern with this line of thinking, maybe... .

While I understand and also agree... .
As it is how I raised my own child... .
If you are not behaving properly, then natural consequence is => I’m putting the game away and not playing with you.

However... .
How does one know at what point if they are behaving passive aggressive?

Humm... .
I’m not sure
Is it dependent on you sticking to your boundaries aka being responsive vs being reactive to the situation?

[formflier]

If you didn't - this whole thing might have been averted with that communication.
 

No... I didn't say anything to her. 

In my defense, many times... perhaps most any reference by me to disability is a fastball for some weird comment... .or worse.

However... that may be a better "battle to pick" than staying radio silent.

Not sure.

IN other words... .there is solid reason why I skipped saying anything about my back... .although I may need to "re-rank" my reasons.

FF

[Enabler]

FF, I’m sorry for this pothole you seem to have inadvertently run into, I’d imagine you thought you’d scored some brownie points with the steak dinner but as per usual no good deed goes unpunished. That said, the two done necessarily have to be inextricably linked although I guess any normal human being would reasonably have expected there to be a credit in the emotional bank for a good bit of cow.

If that were my wife i’d be thinking, she’s disappointed that o didn’t show kindness, patience and care about her safety enough to wait for her at or after the checkout. I didn’t “hold the door open” so to say and treat her with the fragility she deserves and maybe feels. He narrative would be “enabler doesn’t care about me, he just left me here to fend for myself” especially if she was expecting me to be the other side of the checkout waiting. Hence roomies.

Re the purchases. My experience is that if I don’t show objection to the first wave of NEEDS another wave will come and in the all or nothing thinking kinda way they get on a roll and kitchen sink spending. Incidentally the first wave of spending was probably the steak dinner... .that set the scene to open the piggy bank raid (albeit some meaningless tat and the most expensive mag in the world)... .she deserved it!

I might have hostorically (as emotional caretaker) sent a message heading off the expectation disappointment saying “hey babes, sorry I couldn’t wait, back is killing me and had to get to the car to sit down xx”

Just my 2p.

[Notwendy]

This is a great response FF because it allows me to share something I had to learn. It was normal for me to filter my responses and avoid hot topics to try to keep things calmer growing up with BPD mom. It was actually second nature and I took that into my own marriage.

But a MC pointed out something along the lines of we can only control ourselves, not another person. When we avoid the true response out of fear of their response- we are actually controlling them, not ourselves. Then, we come across as inauthentic and controlling and this can backfire.

If we are able to answer from a place of authenticity, then their response is up to them, and our job is to manage our reaction to their response. This is the part we can control- our response.

So the alternative event might have been this : You tell FFW that you are enjoying your time shopping with her, but your back is hurting and you are going to sit in the car. Her response is something snarky. Your response is to take care of you and not add to the drama. " I am sorry you feel that way but I need to take care of this". Then go to the car. She might escalate but then it's on you to manage your response.

You could see this avoidance as a sort of WOE and I think our goal is to be more authentic in our responses. I also agree that there is a time and a place to reveal emotional information, but in this case, your back hurt and that was the reason. Not saying it left a space for her to fill it in with her feelings.

Been there done this many times, and it has been a learning curve for me to change this pattern on my part.