Why Do BPD’s show behavior that is manipulative?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I always post on this forum whenever I an going through a tough time or I can’t keep my emotions bottled in.

Recap: I was on and off with my ex for about 2 years (dated for a year) she was very keen on marriage I was not because I was not ready and needed to have my career in order. There were a lot of red flags, threats, and I felt horrible when I couldn’t fulfill her needs. Fast forward to a month ago, she decides to get an “arranged engagement.” It just so happened that within 2 days she made this decision (Impulsive decison yet again). It broke me down, but sometimes you can still love someone and let them ago. I accepted my fate and started doing a lot better, was no contact and even made closure. A week ago my phone starts getting text messages and calls. I tried to be very civil about it and I thought my message was getting across. I didn’t want to be friends because I didn’t want to hear about the other guy and things that didn’t invovle me. I was trying to be the good guy. She tells me how I can still change things, I still ignored it because its too late to change anything she made a decision and clearly told me she was happy with her decision, and I accepted it. Then today, she calls me and tells me how she can’t stop thinking about me and how she loves me. At which point I told her that this is wrong and that she made her decision and I want no part in that. I tell her that this is wrong for me to say this but I shouldnt even be talking to you despite how I feel. At which point she was like so you never think about me, I still ignored it because the answer made no difference. I really thought that she had no control over me until, the next thing she said to me was that her soon to be finance wants to be physical with her in terms of sex, and she doesnt know how to handle it. It really upset me and I couldnt control my feelings at which point I said, I appreciate the fact that you have a happy life and i’m happy for you. After all you made this decision and despite everything I will never be an angry person, and as for this fear or how to handle it you should be talking to your friends about that, I want nothing to do with that. I’d appreciate it if you dont contact me again, and im not mad but I think you need to figure out what you want from me and think that question carefully, after which I was very keen on blocking, but I didn’t want to trigger any abandonment issues.

I know this is the wrong question to ask, but I just hate being in the middle of two cross roads. It makes me question my sanity, and makes me question my values and my needs. Is this manipulation, to somehow get me to cave in. I don’t know what to make of it.

[Struggler123]

I always post on this forum whenever I an going through a tough time or I can’t keep my emotions bottled in.

Recap: I was on and off with my ex for about 2 years (dated for a year) she was very keen on marriage I was not because I was not ready and needed to have my career in order. There were a lot of red flags, threats, and I felt horrible when I couldn’t fulfill her needs. Fast forward to a month ago, she decides to get an “arranged engagement.” It just so happened that within 2 days she made this decision (Impulsive decison yet again). It broke me down, but sometimes you can still love someone and let them ago. I accepted my fate and started doing a lot better, was no contact and even made closure. A week ago my phone starts getting text messages and calls. I tried to be very civil about it and I thought my message was getting across. I didn’t want to be friends because I didn’t want to hear about the other guy and things that didn’t invovle me. I was trying to be the good guy. She tells me how I can still change things, I still ignored it because its too late to change anything she made a decision and clearly told me she was happy with her decision, and I accepted it. Then today, she calls me and tells me how she can’t stop thinking about me and how she loves me. At which point I told her that this is wrong and that she made her decision and I want no part in that. I tell her that this is wrong for me to say this but I shouldnt even be talking to you despite how I feel. At which point she was like so you never think about me, I still ignored it because the answer made no difference. I really thought that she had no control over me until, the next thing she said to me was that her soon to be finance wants to be physical with her in terms of sex, and she doesnt know how to handle it. It really upset me and I couldnt control my feelings at which point I said, I appreciate the fact that you have a happy life and i’m happy for you. After all you made this decision and despite everything I will never be an angry person, and as for this fear or how to handle it you should be talking to your friends about that, I want nothing to do with that. I’d appreciate it if you dont contact me again, and im not mad but I think you need to figure out what you want from me and think that question carefully, after which I was very keen on blocking, but I didn’t want to trigger any abandonment issues.

I know this is the wrong question to ask, but I just hate being in the middle of two cross roads. It makes me question my sanity, and makes me question my values and my needs. Is this manipulation, to somehow get me to cave in. I don’t know what to make of it.

[Shawnlam]

Hey struggles maybe some points off my story will help you figure out  if it is manipulation.I happen to be in an equal funk today and almost tried getting her number back to text her to see what she was up to this weekend so I feel what you are going through .The only reason I didn’t attempt to contact her was from reading the stories here and realizing I’d just restart from the beginning again from a drama / anxiety perspective.Now to my story which will help you with yours.

Here are a few things that happened kinda personal to me and how she reacted and I’ll explain the link to your question from these at the end .During our time together I developed a rash in January that I’m starting to link to stress at this point.When I got the rash I told her it’s no big deal should go away (which it hasn’t). All she said was I hope it’s not me baby ,maybe you are allergic to me? That’s point one.Next story I had a friend I was with in the airborne division during my military career who committed suicide for various reasons last year.So I was pretty down and her words were, I hope I’m not making you feel worse,I don’t want to make you feel sad That’s point 2. See a trend here struggles? It always got twisted that it’s about her? Do I think it was manipulation?No I don’t ,I believe they are just wired a certain way and my opinion Is maybe your ex is the same.I think she does have feelings for you but it’s only ever going to be her feelings first? If that makes sense, and could you live with a relationship like that?

My exGF had(has) me so well trained that when weekends would come I’d get anxious /anxiety never knowing what’s coming? A cancellation,a weird story knowing it was bs then trying to figure out where she was for two days etc etc.It wasn’t manipulative it was a cross between her epic lieing and impulsive behavior.I can’t and won’t live like that with anyone anymore no matter how nice they are when around me and no matter how beautiful or in love I am with them.Nobody is worth health and sanity,and the further you are apart from them the less we remember those bad times(that’s why I come and read the stories to remind me).Ive come to see my particular case with my ex as a check list theory.What does that mean you ask? Well here is what I’ve used (with the help of my therapist) as a coping tool.

Check list theory:
A lot of people with BPD have or keep an entourage of attention giving sources .My ex had contact with numerous ex bf and fun flings and the she had me as “the relationship guy”.To her that’s like having a garden of flowers , some more important that the others ,all there for viewing/smelling pleasure.But what does a garden need to remain intact ? Attention! The flowers need sun check! Water check!,fertilizer !, weeding check! And the preferred flower that smells the best probably needs a bit more of each check,check,check! So that’s exactly how my exGF managed her entourage .Most of the exbf’s can and were responded to when texting ( I know because she showed me).Some required the occasional dinner or lunch (I know she was caught), and I won’t go further but I’m gonna guess some required physical attention. With that said that’s how she treated me EX: ok so I spent two days at Shawn’s because he wanted to see me check!, I slept with him check , now I’m free for awhile to do what I want .I just told him I have to leave Sunday after breakfast because I have laundry and house cleaning .Then the next day she’s forget her lie and tell me she went to a movie with her best friend gf after she left... .the same gf she spent the following weekend with and then went on a vacation with for a week.I was but another check list for her Struggles because frankly somewhere in her chaotic life she probably thought I’ll keep this fish on my hook for now so when I’m ready to settle there he will be ,good job ,loyal,attractive etc etc.In the meantime she could keep her entourage of attention givers and life was good .You see my point here brother? You are better than the present guy she has in her eyes most likely , and she realizes her poker bluff didn’t really work out and you folded and walked.Now she wants a new hand of cards and you playing again most likely... .but none of that is important as far as I’m concerned because it’s not about what happened it’s done and in the past.The question is : What makes you think this won’t happen again? What makes you believe this isn’t solely about her ? After reading on here you know it’s not about you never was right? And never forget about what it was like during the bad times ,those aren’t gonna go anywhere if you go back .

[Shawnlam]

And don’t get me wrong as bitter as I sounded I’m actually not angry at my ex the check list theory which my therapist showed me was actually to prevent anger.He explained to me that instead of getting angry if she reaches out or get angry with past memories just remember she is just filling out her attention check list.Shes not trying to do it on purpose to anger you,she needs all that attention to fill a void of emotional despair and that kind of attention requires maintenance .I could even look at it as being previlaged enough to be the special flower in her garden at one time , not that it makes me feel that much better ! But it makes me less angry when I think about having been on a checklist.I hope this helps you,it’s helping me cope and lately I’ve had more bad days than good this week god knows why to be honest? I guess I’m just lonely and the mind always goes back to the last attention we got,kinda like a BPD mind I guess just without the need or requirement to fufill it at any cost even to the detriment of someone else.

[Husband321]

I could never discern between manipulation or just impulsiveness with my ex wife.

In the end I don't think it matters.

Over two years she changed her number 5 times.  Always "this is  it. Never again. New number. New start"

Then she changed her emails.  Only to have one.

But she was always contacting exes.  Always lying. One person was never enough.

Now that I am the ex she reaches out to me sporadically. Assuming this is when her new relationship is sour.

[MeandThee29]

People manipulate in order to get or maintain the upper hand in a way that doesn't respect the individual.

It's one thing to say, "Let's do some errands together and go to lunch. We've been so busy."

Yet another to say, "You never do anything with me. You don't put me first. If you don't do errands and go to lunch with me, it's just another example of how little you think of me."

I'm almost convinced that once it becomes a pattern, it's hard for them to see that it's unhealthy.

[Wicker Man]

I was trying to be the good guy. She tells me how I can still change things, I still ignored it because its too late to change anything she made a decision and clearly told me she was happy with her decision, and I accepted it.

Struggler -There are a couple contradictions in this statement.  She obviously is not certain about her decision and I am further guessing you have not really accepted the situation.  Since neither of you is accepting the situation your communication has been unclear.  I agree you are trying to be a good guy, but you are sending mixed signals to her -perhaps out of trying to soften your language or subconsciously leaving a door open.

... .I want no part in that. I tell her that this is wrong for me to say this but I shouldnt even be talking to you despite how I feel.

'I want no part in that' is a strong statement which carries a definite meaning, until you add 'despite how I feel'  This changes the apparent meaning to 'I want to have a say, and implies hope for the future.

I want nothing to do with that. I’d appreciate it if you dont contact me again, and im not mad but I think you need to figure out what you want from me

Once again 'I want nothing to do with that' same as above -until you add 'You need to figure out what you want'. -this reinforces this is not what you want and implies hope for the future -leaving a door open.

It makes me question my sanity, and makes me question my values and my needs. Is this manipulation.

You need not question your sanity, but I would ask you to consider your resolve.  Is this manipulative dialogue?  I would say yes, but from what I have read you are being at least as manipulative in your mixed messages as she is by contacting you in the first place.

I feel for you being in this situation it is painful and confusing -but I wanted to do a little dissection on your dialogue and perhaps give you something to consider. 

I never saw intent to manipulate from my BPD ex.  She confused the hell out of me and did things which were hurtful, but there was no rhyme or reason.

She acted out of impulse; what may have seemed like manipulation to me, was far more likely the actions of someone without impulse control and a very low level of emotional development.  --She was a genius, but emotionally very underdeveloped.


Wicker Man

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Struggler, I'm with MeandThee29 that manipulation is more or less a pattern of behavior that those w/BPD have been using all their lives in order to get their emotional needs met.  I had little or no experience with someone using F-O-G to twist my arm and was quite susceptible to manipulation.  Took me a long time to get the hang of when my pwBPD was using F-O-G to control me.  Yet once I learned to recognize the pattern, it became easy to deflect.

LJ

[Struggler123]

I could never discern between manipulation or just impulsiveness with my ex wife.

In the end I don't think it matters.

Over two years she changed her number 5 times.  Always "this is  it. Never again. New number. New start"

Then she changed her emails.  Only to have one.

But she was always contacting exes.  Always lying. One person was never enough.

Now that I am the ex she reaches out to me sporadically. Assuming this is when her new relationship is sour.

It’s just frustrating at times because one moment you think you have moved on and then they return back like nothings happened. The thing was we were friends for a year and then started dating. One of the red flags was, we started dating when I wasn’t living in the same city anymore, just didnt pick up on it.

Hey Struggler, I'm with MeandThee29 that manipulation is more or less a pattern of behavior that those w/BPD have been using all their lives in order to get their emotional needs met.  I had little or no experience with someone using F-O-G to twist my arm and was quite susceptible to manipulation.  Took me a long time to get the hang of when my pwBPD was using F-O-G to control me.  Yet once I learned to recognize the pattern, it became easy to deflect.

LJ

It’s just hard sometimes because I feel like I’m trying to rationalize when theres no rationalization invovled. It’s simply just me trying to make sense of the mess she’s trying to create. In the past, I would feel terrible about numerous things ans do as she pleased. I don’t remember ever saying no to her except when she would insist marriage ideas. Even the whole concept of marriage, I pushed away when she would start doing things that made me question if I could marry her and then at that point I knew I wasn’t ready and she’s too impulsive.

Struggler -There are a couple contradictions in this statement.  She obviously is not certain about her decision and I am further guessing you have not really accepted the situation.  Since neither of you is accepting the situation your communication has been unclear.  I agree you are trying to be a good guy, but you are sending mixed signals to her -perhaps out of trying to soften your language or subconsciously leaving a door open.

'I want no part in that' is a strong statement which carries a definite meaning, until you add 'despite how I feel'  This changes the apparent meaning to 'I want to have a say, and implies hope for the future.
Once again 'I want nothing to do with that' same as above -until you add 'You need to figure out what you want'. -this reinforces this is not what you want and implies hope for the future -leaving a door open.

You need not question your sanity, but I would ask you to consider your resolve.  Is this manipulative dialogue?  I would say yes, but from what I have read you are being at least as manipulative in your mixed messages as she is by contacting you in the first place.

I feel for you being in this situation it is painful and confusing -but I wanted to do a little dissection on your dialogue and perhaps give you something to consider. 

I never saw intent to manipulate from my BPD ex.  She confused the hell out of me and did things which were hurtful, but there was no rhyme or reason.

She acted out of impulse; what may have seemed like manipulation to me, was far more likely the actions of someone without impulse control and a very low level of emotional development.  --She was a genius, but emotionally very underdeveloped.


Wicker Man

WickerMan,


I do agree, one of the problems im facing is that I have no balance. If I soften my language im nice and if I don’t then I’m mean. I know these words sound like I have it all figured out but I don’t. She’s way too smart but when it comes to just being the bigger person its like she’s a child. I do understand what your saying, just wish it was something I could resolve in one day.

People manipulate in order to get or maintain the upper hand in a way that doesn't respect the individual.

It's one thing to say, "Let's do some errands together and go to lunch. We've been so busy."

Yet another to say, "You never do anything with me. You don't put me first. If you don't do errands and go to lunch with me, it's just another example of how little you think of me."

I'm almost convinced that once it becomes a pattern, it's hard for them to see that it's unhealthy.

That really spoke to me. That’s exactly how it is. It’s like no matter what you do one mistake and everything is thrown at you. Thanks shawn, you always know what to say, it did help when you compared the two situations. I really hope you feel better, better days are coming.


Update:

She replied, and said she wants my friendship. She knows that she messes up and says the wrong things and wants whats best for me. And my happiness. And whether i get that with or without her thats my decision. She understands I need time to move on and I can take it. But she doesnt want us to block each other and be strangers. She wants to keep the door open always.

At which point I really don’t know how to respond to this. I want to say a lot of things to that but id rather not.

[Shawnlam]

That’s a tuff one as well, her wanting to remain friends .Is it legit or is it to keep an option open my guess that’s what’s going through your mind .If we were to follow the BPD play book it’s to keep an option open if plan A fails ,but it could be a legit offer as well because she has feelings for you.Tuff call and I wouldn’t know where to go from here either if I was you,but I’d lean more towards some space short term to heal my own emotional turmoil .Talking so often would be tuff for me and honestly from what I’m reading seems pretty tuff for you right now.I get it though,if you take space to heal she may be gone forever and you don’t want that most likely ,and staying will cause you to feel shi$$ty because you still have feelings for her.

Whatever you chose though ,try to do your best to put yourself first short term and long term ,keep us posted ! Good luck man

[Struggler123]

That’s a tuff one as well, her wanting to remain friends .Is it legit or is it to keep an option open my guess that’s what’s going through your mind .If we were to follow the BPD play book it’s to keep an option open if plan A fails ,but it could be a legit offer as well because she has feelings for you.Tuff call and I wouldn’t know where to go from here either if I was you,but I’d lean more towards some space short term to heal my own emotional turmoil .Talking so often would be tuff for me and honestly from what I’m reading seems pretty tuff for you right now.I get it though,if you take space to heal she may be gone forever and you don’t want that most likely ,and staying will cause you to feel shi$$ty because you still have feelings for her.

Whatever you chose though ,try to do your best to put yourself first short term and long term ,keep us posted ! Good luck man

You always know what to say man. I get the feeling that it is a way to keep me as an open option. She knows that, after my exams, I would be more inclined ti getting married to someone, and she wants to maybe stick around. It sounds so messed up. I do feel ___ty everytime she contacts me and its like salt to healing wounds. To be honest, I feel like if she was so unstable in a relationship she will do the same in a friendship and its time for me to stop being a good guy and just walk away no more posting about it and actually doing it. Wish it were just easy. What do you think?

[MeandThee29]

You always know what to say man. I get the feeling that it is a way to keep me as an open option. She knows that, after my exams, I would be more inclined ti getting married to someone, and she wants to maybe stick around. It sounds so messed up. I do feel ___ty everytime she contacts me and its like salt to healing wounds. To be honest, I feel like if she was so unstable in a relationship she will do the same in a friendship and its time for me to stop being a good guy and just walk away no more posting about it and actually doing it. Wish it were just easy. What do you think?

Keep in mind that people with full BPD typically have trouble in all of their relationships, friends included. That's one of the hallmarks professionals look for. See below:

A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation).

I think remaining friends is rare with personality disorders.

[Shawnlam]

Honestly and I’m gonna use myself as an example here , I’m walking away from mine for very similar reasons to yours.I love Marie -xxxx I really do but I know for a fact she doesn’t love me as much as she says it.Im a toy that’s in her playpen , and she doesn’t want to lose toys she invested a lot to get me , and I’m sure she’s upset that was wasted.But I’m not going to be a plan b or c for anybody out there period.Both you and I and everyone else on this site are worth more than being a plan B struggles.We weren’t put here to be an accessory and it’s very hard to consider we might not find someone who treated us so well like out ex’s ( during the idolization phase that is).The tuffest part about that time was  it was 50% BS.Yes they “loved” us to the best of their ability but it wasn’t like we love,and Most was mirroring .Once you repeat this over and over again to yourself well it hits home hard

Look at the facts for both of us : your ex decided to marry another and share herself with him in record time.Mine decided the Thursday before she let me go (Saturday) to meet her ex.Now literally 1 week after we met Sunday where she met me for lunch and again love bombed me ,she’s frequenting both her last ex’s? Crazy is an understatement but that’s the dark cold side of BPD.So all in all as much as we love them ,what future can we have with individuals like this ? NONE my friend because it would be like living in a perpetual conundrum, don’t we deserve better ?

[Struggler123]

Keep in mind that people with full BPD typically have trouble in all of their relationships, friends included. That's one of the hallmarks professionals look for. See below:

A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation).

I think remaining friends is rare with personality disorders.

The truth is we can close our eyes to reality but we can’t close our hearts to feelings. It sounds cliche but its true. As much as I’d like to accept the fact that her idealization phase was 100% it wasn’t. I feel sad for her and its horrible, that she has these thoughts but, under no circumstances is this justified. The same way people say “I didn’t know, it would end like this.” The truth is we always know we just don’t want to see it that way.

Honestly and I’m gonna use myself as an example here , I’m walking away from mine for very similar reasons to yours.I love Marie -xxxx I really do but I know for a fact she doesn’t love me as much as she says it.Im a toy that’s in her playpen , and she doesn’t want to lose toys she invested a lot to get me , and I’m sure she’s upset that was wasted.But I’m not going to be a plan b or c for anybody out there period.Both you and I and everyone else on this site are worth more than being a plan B struggles.We weren’t put here to be an accessory and it’s very hard to consider we might not find someone who treated us so well like out ex’s ( during the idolization phase that is).The tuffest part about that time was  it was 50% BS.Yes they “loved” us to the best of their ability but it wasn’t like we love,and Most was mirroring .Once you repeat this over and over again to yourself well it hits home hard

Look at the facts for both of us : your ex decided to marry another and share herself with him in record time.Mine decided the Thursday before she let me go (Saturday) to meet her ex.Now literally 1 week after we met Sunday where she met me for lunch and again love bombed me ,she’s frequenting both her last ex’s? Crazy is an understatement but that’s the dark cold side of BPD.So all in all as much as we love them ,what future can we have with individuals like this ? NONE my friend because it would be like living in a perpetual conundrum, don’t we deserve better ?

I completely agree Shawn, its like life has given us a second chance. Its up to us, whether we want to learn from it or fall into the black hole again. Its just sad how someone can tell you they love you and need you, and then flip cards. Sad part is, she says “he loves me and im trying to be happy.” If you have to try to make yourself happy, your not exactly happy. She told me wanted friendship and wants me to be happy with or without her and to always leave the door open. I ended up sayig this to her,I think that people come into each other’s lives for a reason. Usually it’s because you needed that person at that TIME in your life. I think at this stage you’re looking to get married and move on. You want my friendship but it’s clear that this is a downgrade from what what was really desire: a relationship and eventually a marriage. Friendships don’t work where there is something more desired and clearly since that didn’t work you resent me and continue to do so. This is why we keep getting into useless arguments and fights. You say you want to be there for me. But I think what we both really need in our lives in calm and peace instead of drama which inevitably comes every time we talk. So I seriously and for the last time, do think we should just walk away with good memories instead of trying to rekindle a friendship that pretty much shattered. 

[Shawnlam]

I agree I think walking away with good memories is the best one can hope for after being with a person who has BPD. Best to see the whole scenario as a learning experience than  a hate filled episode in our lives .Its safe to say we both learnt a lot out of this and the odds of either of us getting caught again are slim to none ,we will see the red flags way before ! So yes I think this did happen for a reason,a lesson to both.Well if ever you are in Quebec Canada shoot me an message on here ,I think having a beer with someone who’s been through as much as us would prove positive on the moral!

[Struggler123]

I agree I think walking away with good memories is the best one can hope for after being with a person who has BPD. Best to see the whole scenario as a learning experience than  a hate filled episode in our lives .Its safe to say we both learnt a lot out of this and the odds of either of us getting caught again are slim to none ,we will see the red flags way before ! So yes I think this did happen for a reason,a lesson to both.Well if ever you are in Quebec Canada shoot me an message on here ,I think having a beer with someone who’s been through as much as us would prove positive on the moral!

Its certainly been one hell of a rollercoaster. I just feel like the hatred would consume us. For sure man, looking forward to it. I’m right on the border so if your ever in Cali, just give me a message. Hopefully she doesnt try to contact me again. She said if thats what makes you happy than i will try to live with that, but im here if you need me. Perfect closure... .until next time

[Husband321]

Honestly and I’m gonna use myself as an example here , I’m walking away from mine for very similar reasons to yours.I love Marie -xxxx I really do but I know for a fact she doesn’t love me as much as she says it.Im a toy that’s in her playpen , and she doesn’t want to lose toys she invested a lot to get me , and I’m sure she’s upset that was wasted.But I’m not going to be a plan b or c for anybody out there period.Both you and I and everyone else on this site are worth more than being a plan B struggles.We weren’t put here to be an accessory and it’s very hard to consider we might not find someone who treated us so well like out ex’s ( during the idolization phase that is).The tuffest part about that time was  it was 50% BS.Yes they “loved” us to the best of their ability but it wasn’t like we love,and Most was mirroring .Once you repeat this over and over again to yourself well it hits home hard

Look at the facts for both of us : your ex decided to marry another and share herself with him in record time.Mine decided the Thursday before she let me go (Saturday) to meet her ex.Now literally 1 week after we met Sunday where she met me for lunch and again love bombed me ,she’s frequenting both her last ex’s? Crazy is an understatement but that’s the dark cold side of BPD.So all in all as much as we love them ,what future can we have with individuals like this ? NONE my friend because it would be like living in a perpetual conundrum, don’t we deserve better ?

Exactly...

My BPD wife left for another man out of the blue she knew for 3 days! From there she has had several relationships... .

Now, 6 months later she calls telling me she misses me, always loved me etc... .  This could literally go on forever with her.

In my case, she just wants to make sure I am still an option... But once she would "get me", if allowed, she would leave and cheat all over again.

And if any of her exes were available, she would be with them... Then back to me... Then some new people...   That seems to be how they operate.

[MeandThee29]

The truth is we can close our eyes to reality but we can’t close our hearts to feelings. It sounds cliche but its true. As much as I’d like to accept the fact that her idealization phase was 100% it wasn’t. I feel sad for her and its horrible, that she has these thoughts but, under no circumstances is this justified. The same way people say “I didn’t know, it would end like this.” The truth is we always know we just don’t want to see it that way.

Well said. Feelings don't mean a good relationship. Mine said some weeks back that I should reconcile because no one will love me like he does. The irony of that statement wasn't lost on me. No, no one is going to "love" me like that.

[Wicker Man]

What ended my relationship with my undiagnosed BPD lover was her telling me at the end of a 7 day rage "We have nothing more to talk about" -meaning she broke up with me.  It was apparently said in the heat of the moment, but for me it was an epiphany -this was an arrow in her quiver. 

I woke up 3am the next morning with a start.  I realized one day she would leave me and with all the Kings horses and all the Kings men there would have been nothing I could have done to stop her.

Our relationship ended in what would have likely been called the twilight of the 'idealization phase'.  Things were actually still 'quite' good, but once I had this realization I ultimately agreed with her to end our engagement.

Amor Vincit Omnia only works if your partner will actually stick around.


Wicker Man

[Struggler123]

What ended my relationship with my undiagnosed BPD lover was her telling me at the end of a 7 day rage "We have nothing more to talk about" -meaning she broke up with me.  It was apparently said in the heat of the moment, but for me it was an epiphany -this was an arrow in her quiver. 

I woke up 3am the next morning with a start.  I realized one day she would leave me and with all the Kings horses and all the Kings men there would have been nothing I could have done to stop her.

Our relationship ended in what would have likely been called the twilight of the 'idealization phase'.  Things were actually still 'quite' good, but once I had this realization I ultimately agreed with her to end our engagement.

Amor Vincit Omnia only works if your partner will actually stick around.


Wicker Man

My ex broke up with me on 3 occassions, most break ups were 24-48 hours. The third time she broke up with me she was on a 3 day trip. Ever since that trip, I promised myself I was not getting back with her. She did everything to get me back and even traveled 10,000 miles. At which point, I told her I wanted to take things slow. She agreed but was still pushing on the marriage thing. The threats and ultimatiums were stressful at times. I always treated her with respect, and did what any good guy would do. Even through these threats I would be like if you find someone better than me, i’ll accept the consequences but don’t make an impulsive decision. And then, when she realized she was losing control, she decided to take the manipulative road. I still remember according to her this new guy thing happened all in 2 days, and within 2 days he suddenly loves her. None the less, I was still happy for her and treated her with respect until my flight back. At which point she was like, if you were to ask me to marry you i would drop him and I remember thinking, if someone can do that to somebody else, it could happen to me too. She got herself into this and ultimately made a choice, because she wanted to at that moment and now her idealization phase is over and shes realizing that its a little too late, so shes trying to keep “a friend” around to mop up the floor and leave the person begging for his dignity. Its a cruel disorder, reading some of the stories made me realize, that It could have been worse. I stuck to my gut and it worked for me, if I hadn’t I would not have been able to survive the aftermath considering I am very keen on morals and I always have to see things through despite, the consequences. I’m sure her loving finance can give her the things that she needs. I’m not trying to fight over someone, thats not worth it.  As for sticking around Wicker Man, how many people can live in that kind of agony knowing the other person can walk out any second, without any remorse or thinking about it. At the end of the day its always the Non-BPD’s fault, he/she never understands, and thats a strange reality.

[Wicker Man]

I’m sure her loving finance can give her the things that she needs.

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." --Ayn Rand

As hard as this right now I feel you (we) very likely made the right choice.  She told you over and over who she is.  Yes, you loved the lovely parts of her, but she kept leaving you.  This would have not very likely gotten better. 


As for her 'loving fiancé'... .  Good luck and godspeed. 

As they say in the motor cycle world 'Keep the shiny side up'

Day by day the pain recedes and with it I am granted more clarity.

Wicker Man

[Struggler123]

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." --Ayn Rand

As hard as this right now I feel you (we) very likely made the right choice.  She told you over and over who she is.  Yes, you loved the lovely parts of her, but she kept leaving you.  This would have not very likely gotten better. 


As for her 'loving fiancé'... .  Good luck and godspeed. 


As they say in the motor cycle world 'Keep the shiny side up'

Day by day the pain recedes and with it I am granted more clarity.

Wicker Man

Very wise words from a wise person. That’s true, I realized that the only reason she was chasing me at the end was because I put up a wall and she knew that. She was trying so hard to pull me in, the minute I wouls have pulled in it would have been back to square one.  I realized I need to be a less jealous person that was one weakness she brought out of me. I couldn’t have said it better. We did pick the better choice,  and that made all the difference. For a long time I blamed myself and it was only once I removed these misconceptions. I started feeling more like myself. Occassionally, I like to come to this forum and see all the stories so I can tell myself why it would have never worked, if I ever blamed myself.

[Wicker Man]

I realized I need to be a less jealous person that was one weakness she brought out of me.

I had never ever felt jealous in a relationship before my tryst with BPD.  What I realize now is what I was feeling what not jealousy, but a lack of trust.

There are no guarantees in life --but, from what I have read, the odds of making a long term relationship work with someone suffering from BPD are quite slim.  Hell... .It is one the symptoms for diagnosis of BPD according to DSM.

It hurts.  Any relationship failing hurts, somehow with BPD in the mix it seems to hurt a lot more.

I am going to go work in the garden and try not to think about BPD for the rest of the day

Wicker Man

P.S.

She probably wanted you back because you are kind, intelligent and introspective.  You will find someone worthy of all the gifts you have to offer in time.

[Struggler123]

I had never ever felt jealous in a relationship before my tryst with BPD.  What I realize now is what I was feeling what not jealousy, but a lack of trust.

There are no guarantees in life --but, from what I have read, the odds of making a long term relationship work with someone suffering from BPD are quite slim.  Hell... .It is one the symptoms for diagnosis of BPD according to DSM.

It hurts.  Any relationship failing hurts, somehow with BPD in the mix it seems to hurt a lot more.

I am going to go work in the garden and try not to think about BPD for the rest of the day

Wicker Man

P.S.

She probably wanted you back because you are kind, intelligent and introspective.  You will find someone worthy of all the gifts you have to offer in time.

That really got to me, it was the lack of trust. The idea that she could leave at any second and not have a care in the world. I remember being her friend first, and she would cut me out anytime her ex came back. The bad memories would always be supressed. At the end of the day, thats the cold hard truth, if there was a magic potion, this forum wouldn’t exist and its merely temporary successes until the next time an episode comes, and if you add marriage and kids into the mix all hell breaks loose, because now the BPD has to pretend to be an adult and thats never going to happen. The hurt is there but, I think that accepting it is what allows us to move past it bit by bit. I’m sure that garden will be sparkling in no time, sometimes wish that BPD’s understood the idea that each flower grows on its own, and doesn’t compete with the flower next to it. Based on everything you say, it really shows how you speak from the heart. Thank you for your kind words, i’m sure we both will be able to get the love that we deserve. I really appreciate everything, your advice means a lot. You’re a good person and i’m sure better days will come for the both of us.

[once removed]

Occassionally, I like to come to this forum and see all the stories so I can tell myself why it would have never worked, if I ever blamed myself.

i would ask everyone involved in this discussion to have a read of this thread and see if you see yourself in anything it describes: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

Dysfunctional Resentment  Resentment is a mental process in which we repeatedly replay a feeling, and the events leading up to that feeling that angers us. With resentment, we re-experience and relive events in ways that affect us mentally, emotionally, physiologically and spiritually in destructive ways.

According to Mark Siche (author of Healing from Family Rifts), resentment happens when:

• We feel what people did to us that was unnecessarily mean, hurtful, and disrespectful or humiliating

• What people in our lives did not do for us mean, hurtful, and disrespectful or humiliating

Resentments are often justified - but are they helpful?  

So how does a little venting hurt us?  When we are resentful, we try to balance the wrongs we feel by demeaning the person that hurt us.  We bash them, feel disgust for them, feel hatred or look down in pity... .we may even wish them harm or lash out to hurt them or their reputation.

The problem for us is that we create a dysfunctional and false reality to sooth our pain.  And in doing so we cling to a futile need to be right or be superior, which overrides our capacity to heal and to make healthy changes in our lives... .usually because we don't know any other way to come to grips with the painful feelings of hurt, rejection, and abandonment.  

At bpdfamily.com, the staff has had the opportunity to watch 1,000s of members process the failure of a BPD relationship and clearly, those that exhibit the most vitriol and resentment are the last to heal - if they heal at all.  Lets face it, the hallmark of a BPD relationship is emotional immaturity by both partners.  The idea that one partner was healthy (loving and giving) and the other partner was dysfunctional is seriously flawed.  BPD is a real mental illness and a person with this disorder will have a history of failed relationships.   However, an emotionally mature and grounded person does not get into such relationships and even if they accidentally fell into one, they would reassess their decision process and values, make changes - not get caught up in extended makeup/breakup cycles and come back time and time again.

When we are caught up in the resentment, it obscures both our vision and motivation to identify and resolve the issues that plagued us in the relationship... .such as relationship skill (e.g., selecting emotionally impared partners, confusing sex with love, etc.) or even things like our own issues (e.g., co-dependency, narcissistic, schizoid or other traits) or immature
According to Siche holding resentments is choice.

[Shawnlam]

I had never ever felt jealous in a relationship before my tryst with BPD.  What I realize now is what I was feeling what not jealousy, but a lack of trust.

There are no guarantees in life --but, from what I have read, the odds of making a long term relationship work with someone suffering from BPD are quite slim.  Hell... .It is one the symptoms for diagnosis of BPD according to DSM.

It hurts.  Any relationship failing hurts, somehow with BPD in the mix it seems to hurt a lot more.

I am going to go work in the garden and try not to think about BPD for the rest of the day

Wicker Man

P.S.

She probably wanted you back because you are kind, intelligent and introspective.  You will find someone worthy of all the gifts you have to offer in time.

Excellent perspective,lack of trust makes much more sense than jealousy .I never could trust her god knows I tried but she kept proving me wrong almost daily

[Struggler123]

i would ask everyone involved in this discussion to have a read of this thread and see if you see yourself in anything it describes: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

In no way do I resent her, that would indicate that I have some sort of grudge against her and I want some type of revenge. I actually went back and tried to figure out why I stayed in the relationship for so long. Its like they say you cant keep doing the same thing expecting different results. I tried changing my stances, at one point  I was angry and hurt, but I kept my emotions to myself.I realized that the more I tried to justify her actions the more I realized it was on part of both people. I chose to stay in the relationship for as long as I did. I was the one that was a people pleaser and still tend to be.  But yes defense mechanisms do come into play at any point in time. Everyone’s opinion may vary, but its how you cope with everything that makes all the difference. By the idea of saying that I read the forums to see why it would not work out is not because I have a superiority complex but because, those were her words to me and said that I deserve better. At that moment, I believed it, if it were up to me, I’d make it all go away. What i’m trying to say is that, part of the problem is accepting that there was a problem. It requires work, but that does not justify the actions of the BPD. Until we learn to forgive ourselves, we can’t expect to do that to anyone else. Hope that provides more clarity

[once removed]

forget the parts about vitriol. no one is doing that here.

theres a lot of support and a lot of comfort. we are all here to give each other that. part of the support on the Learning board is that we challenge each other to see the bigger picture, to learn lessons to take to healthier relationships in the future. theres a time and a place to put our arms around each other, to shake our collective heads, to compare our war stories, and to all conclude the outcome was hopeless and theres nothing we could have done. i would submit that too much of it can actually keep us stuck in replaying the wounds and coruminating, and inhibits learning and healing.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/casual-close/201804/how-co-rumination-turns-healthy-relationships-toxic

Struggler, this was your first serious relationship, and man, it is a heart wrenching story. you really loved her and saw a future with her, things moved so quickly, it was too good to leave, too bad to stay, but you werent ready for it to be over, and then the rug was pulled out from under you. its a blow that for me would take a good year to recover from, and as a first relationship would really blow my mind in terms of what to even expect in the dating world, and trying to sort out what are normal, if dysfunctional relationship dynamics vs where BPD plays a role.

so i think its natural and comforting, and even healthy to some degree, to gravitate to each others stories, to share in each others common struggles, but that if we do too much of it, it can not only obscure the details of our own relationship and what we can learn from it, but keep us stuck in it. we did not all experience the same things/behaviors, and we did not all respond to them in the same way - there are different lessons for each of us, but what connects us is that we want to learn from it and do better next time around.

[Struggler123]

forget the parts about vitriol. no one is doing that here.

theres a lot of support and a lot of comfort. we are all here to give each other that. part of the support on the Learning board is that we challenge each other to see the bigger picture, to learn lessons to take to healthier relationships in the future. theres a time and a place to put our arms around each other, to shake our collective heads, to compare our war stories, and to all conclude the outcome was hopeless and theres nothing we could have done. i would submit that too much of it can actually keep us stuck in replaying the wounds and coruminating, and inhibits learning and healing.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/casual-close/201804/how-co-rumination-turns-healthy-relationships-toxic

Struggler, this was your first serious relationship, and man, it is a heart wrenching story. you really loved her and saw a future with her, things moved so quickly, it was too good to leave, too bad to stay, but you werent ready for it to be over, and then the rug was pulled out from under you. its a blow that for me would take a good year to recover from, and as a first relationship would really blow my mind in terms of what to even expect in the dating world, and trying to sort out what are normal, if dysfunctional relationship dynamics vs where BPD plays a role.

so i think its natural and comforting, and even healthy to some degree, to gravitate to each others stories, to share in each others common struggles, but that if we do too much of it, it can not only obscure the details of our own relationship and what we can learn from it, but keep us stuck in it. we did not all experience the same things/behaviors, and we did not all respond to them in the same way - there are different lessons for each of us, but what connects us is that we want to learn from it and do better next time around.

After reading this twice, I can understand what you mean, by emphasizing on the same thing over and over again it indicates that I am stuck. As hard as it is to admit that, I suppose I am trying to fasten the process because thats how my mentality has always been like. I never really let a girl bring me down because I was never attracted to someone in the same manner, which does indicate my flaws as well. But, I am learning from it bit by bit, I am trying to figure out why I can’t just block her everywhere including my mind. But, i’m on not at that stage yet, I know there will be a time when I get to that stage, but until then I feel like this helps me, imagine yourself knowing all these things before your relationship, would you still have went for it? I’ve always been someone that withheld his anger and I suppose thats been both a strength and weakness, but I’m getting better at being the person I need to be because currently I still feel like a lot of work needs to be done. My friends ask me why I got invovled with her in the first place and I know all the generic reasons, but the real one thats what I try to find... .

[Turkish]

My friends ask me why I got invovled with her in the first place and I know all the generic reasons, but the real one thats what I try to find... .

If I were to look back,  like peeling an onion:

1. She was way into me. I don't think anyone can blame anyone here for this not being a hook in any relationship. 
2. Pretty and reserved,  a mystery to be solved. Honestly,  I've usually been attracted to the withdrawn types.
3. Despite the red flags and warnings, she indicated that she needed me/someone. Darn my wolf-like loyalty.
4. This is hard to admit,  but I didn't think I could do better 

[Struggler123]

If I were to look back,  like peeling an onion:

1. She was way into me. I don't think anyone can blame anyone here for this not being a hook in any relationship. 
2. Pretty and reserved,  a mystery to be solved. Honestly,  I've usually been attracted to the withdrawn types.
3. Despite the red flags and warnings, she indicated that she needed me/someone. Darn my wolf-like loyalty.
4. This is hard to admit,  but I didn't think I could do better 

After coming to terms with it I must admit, it did feel good to solve someone else’s problems while running away from my own. I agree those reasons are plenty. Some reasons to an extent I still find true even now, whether thats due to my self esteem or the fact that I still have some guilt, as I still have some baggage from this relationship which I feel like is carried on to the new potential relationships in my life. The other day this girl I was seeing was asking me why I’m always so reserved and its unfair that I don’t speak out my feelings it makes the other person feel unwanted and how its disrespectful to engage in a conversation and try multitasking, and how its a turn off.