Fighting for my kids...

[Amazingkids]

Not sure what to write here. I am in what it looks like the end of a divorce/custody hearing. It has taken almost two years. The judge is clearly frustrated and angry with the entire situation. It has been horrible. I have not had much support from people except a few unexpected people that have come into my life. I have seen my sons get dragged by their mother and having to deal with the consequences of her actions. It took me way too long to admit that there is a very strong indication that she has BPD. Since I have read up (it is still difficult to read some things) and acted on the recommendation on how to deal with it things has gotten a bit better. Still it has been like walking through hell to get to the other side. It has been more than emotional, physically and mentally draining. I know that am not saying anything new to someone that has gone through it before but I completely underestimated how hard all this is and has been!

I am better know but still have a long way to go. No longer I feel like everything I do is wrong. I know I am doing the best I can. I still am struggling with the pace of my healing. I still feel like less than half the person I was before all the abuse. I still think I am much better than I really am. I still struggle to be what my kids need me to be during court. I know that I have made pretty much every mistake experts, lawyers and site tell you not to do... .I still perservere.

thank you for reading... .I am tired... .I have been waiting for someone to come and say that they understand and that I am not alone but have not found that person yet... .someone that can give me advice and empathize... .what I have found is me having to comfort people or having to defend/explain myself about why I believe the mother of my sons has BPD even when family therapist have suggested she does.

[Panda39]

Hi Amazingkids,

 

You are most definitely not alone, everyone on this site has someone with BPD/BPD Traits in their life.  We all understand how subtle BPD can look to outsiders, how much chaos and drama happen within the family, and many of us understand how complicated it is to share children with someone with BPD.

I'm on these boards because my Significant Other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and they share 2 daughters.  My SO and I didn't find out about BPD until I googled "Chronic Lying" towards the end of his 2 year divorce and I didn't land here until a few years after that.  It is a learning curve but knowledge is power... .this site has a lot of tools, the members have a wealth of experience and ideas, and the support when you just want to vent is great.

So where do things stand in your divorce?  How old are your sons?  What does your custody look like?  What can we help you with?  Is there something we can help you tackle first?

Again, welcome I'm glad you decided to jump in an post.  I hope you'll share more of your story.

Take Care 
Panda39

[ForeverDad]

 
Most here have faced issues and obstructions similar to your experiences.  My divorce from filing to final decree was 23.5 months.  I don't know why I always quote that, I guess I don't want to falsely claim mine was 2 years?  But if our 4 months of initial separation were included... .

• If there are children then the custody and parenting schedule issues vastly complicate the divorce.
• The Learning Center section of our menu of boards includes boards focused on books, articles, strategies and approaches.  Books such as Bill Eddy's Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder is essential for our court cases.  Henry Cloud's Boundaries is excellent for handling contact with ex going forward.  Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison focuses on the impact on kids.  If alienation is a problem then Dr Craig Childress has a blog which describes alienation as a form of child abuse, an approach viewed as more acceptable than prior attempts.
• Be careful not to Gift Away whatever Leverage you may have, being overly nice or overly fair is a failing strategy that won't be rewarded or reciprocated by either ex or, quite often, the court.
• On financial matters, be careful not to take short cuts.  If you split your retirement accounts, make sure the QDRO creates a new account for her before cutting a check.  It needs to be deposited directly into ex's retirement account in her name, otherwise she may cash it and then you get stuck with the tax and penalty consequences.
• If you are to pay her any cash, make sure a large chunk is held in escrow until ALL her obligations in the final settlement are complied with.  Once she has it all then there's little or no Leverage left to get her to follow through on her obligations.  In other words, once ex has what ex wants, then ex will stonewall whatever else you went.
• If she gets the house or vehicles and you are a party to the mortgage, liens or loans, then be careful not to sign over the quit claim deed or title before she gets such obligations in her own name.  Why?  You don't want to be liable for a mortgage on a property you no longer own.  If she can't afford (or fails) to negotiate a mortgage or loan on her own, then the property needs to be sold and the marital equity split.
• If you get the house or vehicles and she is co-owner, then be careful to get her to sign over the quit claim deed or title before she gets the last of other funds going to her.  Why?  You don't want to be liable post-divorce for a property she still owns.

[livednlearned]

I have been waiting for someone to come and say that they understand and that I am not alone but have not found that person yet.

Pull up a chair    

We understand and you are not alone.

Sorry for the pain and suffering that brings you here, and glad you found the site.

It takes tremendous strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship, and then things move to family law court and things really start to break  

You mention that you are struggling with the pace of healing. One of the hard things about our situations is that many of us were caretakers/fixers/savers. When the drama goes away and the chronic waves of conflict start to diminish, it can feel strangely empty. This is ok  

Healing can feel very vulnerable and lonely and disorienting. It can feel very raw, and the cooling off period can take a while. In my healing, there was a period after the worst of the battle died down and things were relatively calm, where I would walk the dog and weep uncontrollably. I couldn't even really say where the sadness was coming from, but it made me feel like I was losing my mind. I grew up in a family where crying was a sign of weakness, and being in control and winning was prized above all else.

I almost miss that raw emotion -- it was a lot of vulnerability and feeling that came to the surface and now when things strike me that way, it no longer feels so unnerving or frightening.

Healing can be a way of getting to know yourself better, shining light on the parts that were in shadows for a long time.

We're here to walk with you if you want company.

  

LnL

[josephrl82]

I am in a very similar situation as you are.  I filed for divorce last March when she disappeared with my son for three weeks.  During the initial court hearing the judge awarded us shared 50/50 custody.  I will not stop there though!  The things my son would have to witness and live with on a daily basis if she were to get custody make me sick to my stomach.  I have been kicked, slapped, spat on, bitten, scratched, had objects thrown at me, and I am not the first victim to her rage.  She has been arrested twice in two separate previous relationships for domestic violence.  The funny part is that the physical abuse hurt FAR LESS than the emotional abuse of being told I'm ugly, boring, her exes were better looking and better at everything, and her bragging about her new guy every time we split up when dating.  I know the nightmare you have lived with, and I cannot express to you strongly enough not to give up on fighting for custody!

[Amazingkids]

So where do things stand in your divorce?  How old are your sons?  What does your custody look like?  What can we help you with?  Is there something we can help you tackle first?

Again, welcome I'm glad you decided to jump in an post.  I hope you'll share more of your story.

Hello Panda39,

I would say that the divorce is near its end. The judge is highly upset about the entire situation and does not undertand why it has been so hard and has taken so long. Almost all of my time and efforts have been fighting for the kids. I had to fire my first attorney (should have done it sooner) and the one I have is great but now is when she is taking me seriously about my ex having BPD. My oldest is 6 (7 in Feb) and the youngest is 4 (5 in Mar). Currently my custody is I get them every other weekend. I have gone from not being able to see them to every other weekend. The judge is leaning toward some form of joint custody. Not sure what that would be or how it would work. Other than being to talk to someone that has gone through this and can relate, not sure. I am going over some of the information I have found here. I TRULY appreciate you reaching out, your questions and the welcome.

Anything you want to know just ask. I need to write things but it has been difficult.

Best regards,
Amazingkids

[Panda39]

Almost all of my time and efforts have been fighting for the kids.

This was the big battle my SO had as well.  He originally (during their divorce) saw his kids every other weekend and one night a week for dinner.  He was seeking 50/50 Custody.  His daughters were 9 and 13 at the time he left his wife. Once the Divorce was final he had custody M-F and one weekend a month.

My SO went through a long 2 year divorce process... .Parental Alienation, false allegations of abusing the girls, neglect on mom's part, living in filth on mom's part, his ex was also evicted 3 times, Drama and chaos   Anyway you get the picture.

How are your son's interactions with their mom?  What are your concerns regarding you stbxw and custody/parenting?

A couple of key things that were helpful for my SO was communicating with his ex via email and documenting his ex's behaviors.  How do you communicate with your stbxw when you need to communicate?  I would suggest email if you are not already doing so.  It slows down the interaction so you can think through your responses and don't give knee jerk reactions.  It slows it down so you can decide whether you need to respond at all.  Keep communication about your son only... .try not to pick up the bait that she will throw out there to create conflict or engagement with you.  Email is of course a great way to document your stbxw's behaviors.  But documentation doesn't just have to be in the form of emails, folks here have used apps that save text messages, you can keep a journal or record keep on a calendar.

Currently my custody is I get them every other weekend. I have gone from not being able to see them to every other weekend.

 

I'm sure you probably want to spend more time with them but at least you've had some progress in your direction. 

The judge is leaning toward some form of joint custody.

It is good that the judge is leaning that direction.  What would you like to see in terms of custody? 

Panda39

[Amazingkids]

Most here have faced issues and obstructions similar to your experiences.  My divorce from filing to final decree was 23.5 months.  I don't know why I always quote that, I guess I don't want to falsely claim mine was 2 years?  But if our 4 months of initial separation were included... .

If there are children then the custody and parenting schedule issues vastly complicate the divorce.[/li][/list]

ForeverDad,

Thank you for the very valuable advice. I understand being specific about the time.

Sincerely,
Amazingkids

[Amazingkids]

"glad you found the site."

It takes tremendous strength to not be emotionally injured in a BPD relationship, and then things move to family law court and things really start to break  

"many of us were caretakers/fixers/savers."

We're here to walk with you if you want company.

 

LnL

LnL,

I could not have said it better. I am hugely glad I found this site as well!

Sincerely,
Amazingkids

[Amazingkids]

The funny part is that the physical abuse hurt FAR LESS than the emotional abuse... .I cannot express to you strongly enough not to give up on fighting for custody!

Thank you for sharing and the encouragment to keep fighting!

[Amazingkids]

How are your son's interactions with their mom?  What are your concerns regarding you stbxw and custody/parenting?

She is what I believe and fits like the Queen. The controling and as long as you do and submit there is no problem. The main part and hardest is when it is time to go back to her both my kids beg me to stay with me, but when I try to tell me what is going on they both clam up and change their demeanor. The interactions are different. My oldest one has become compiant and does not do anything unless his mother gives him permission. At least he stops picking his eyebrows when stress. The oldest would be the escape goat. He was the one that was my mini me and never left my side before things came crashing down. The youngest lives in pretend world and has a very hard time obeying instructions or following directions. My concerns in a nutshell is when the next round of stress comes how the kids will get affected. I have witness her telling our oldest: "this is why nobody wants you" because he was throwing sand at her while she was sleeping at the
beach. When my oldest was younger he asked me: "why does mommy hate me?".

It is almost impossible to negotiate with my stbxw so if is not concrete and ordered by the judge it will not happen.

Not sure if I answered your question. I am not very good at describing things I am not clear myself.

How do you communicate with your stbxw when you need to communicate?  I would suggest email if you are not already doing so.  It slows down the interaction so you can think through your responses and don't give knee jerk reactions.  It slows it down so you can decide whether you need to respond at all.  Keep communication about your son only... .try not to pick up the bait that she will throw out there to create conflict or engagement with you.  Email is of course a great way to document your stbxw's behaviors.  But documentation doesn't just have to be in the form of emails, folks here have used apps that save text messages, you can keep a journal or record keep on a calendar.
 

I set the standards that we will only communicate through email. I stop responding to the emails for a while because during one of the last court dates I had chest pains (cause by a panic attack). I had to stop and take a break. Since this started I have just pushed through and not taken a break or dealt with what happened. Everytime I tried to take a break things would start over again and I would get dragged back into things. I have documented in to some extent.

Some people have tried to be helpful and meant well but I just did not have anything left. I needed to stop and access what really happened. The more I look back I see how insidious it was but from the outside it all looks innocent. Unless you put all of it together things look normal.

 
I'm sure you probably want to spend more time with them but at least you've had some progress in your direction. 

It is good that the judge is leaning that direction.  What would you like to see in terms of custody? 

Yes I am heading the right direction and it making progress. I just hate seeing my kids suffer unnecessarily. I need to journal the entire experience but I am still struggling to face a couple of things. To be honest... .I do not mind having 50/50 with her having primary custody as long as she is willing to get help and treatment. I want my kids to have a healthy loving mother. My stbxw took them accross state and has done everything possible to make the court not choose 50/50. I do not want my kids to live like subject under a regimen and having to lose their childhood because they need to tend to her needs. I am already seen my oldest becoming her caretaker and wanting to make her happy even if it causes him to be sad and angry.

[ForeverDad]

EDIT:  Oops, I posted here some strong observations.  Sorry.   I must have confused your thread with another where the stbxw was facing DV charges of some sort and the husband was waffling on what to do with his advantage.  However, I won't wipe this in case any of my suggestions might help in your case.  My overall these was to not Gift Away any strengths, advantages or leverage you have in your case hoping your ex would appreciate it and reciprocate similarly.  Unless a disordered person is in progressing therapy and truly on the road to recovery, being nice, forgiving or overly fair won't work.

She is what I believe and fits like the Queen. The controlling and as long as you do and submit there is no problem... .It is almost impossible to negotiate with my stbxw so if is not concrete and ordered by the judge it will not happen.

Your Ex believes and demands that she is The Authority.  Problem is, for her, once the legal system steps in then Court is The Real Authority.  Even then she will kick, scream, manipulate, posture, etc demanding all still acquiesce to her world view and sense of entitlement.  But for you, the court and associated professionals is your safe zone.  But for them to support you, you have to support them.  If they recommend you take a strong stance regarding parenting and not feel guilted and cave to her manipulations then listen to them, they will fight harder for you if you show you're being the strong in-charge parent the want you to be.  :)on't feel sorry for her and hide her misbehaviors, especially the parenting ones.  (Sadly, as regarding the parenting decisions they won't care too much about her adult behaviors against you going forward.)

The point is that court will, usually, be "less unfair" than her.  Work with them and they'll work with you.  It won't be perfect but it will be vastly better than when she was in flaming control.

To be honest... .I do not mind having 50/50 with her having primary custody as long as she is willing to get help and treatment. I want my kids to have a healthy loving mother. My stbxw took them across state and has done everything possible to make the court not choose 50/50. I do not want my kids to live like subject under a regimen and having to lose their childhood because they need to tend to her needs. I am already seen my oldest becoming her caretaker and wanting to make her happy even if it causes him to be sad and angry.

Be aware that one goal of the courts is they want the children to have parents.  Too often in our extreme cases the court doesn't take into account the deep and extreme mental issues of the disordered parent.  The disordered parent is not bad enough to get committed but not good enough to parent without some limits.  The court will not have the same level of concern for your children as you do.  The court will ignore the lesser incidents of poor, even twisted, parenting.  They call it, rising to to be level of being 'actionable'.  That threshold is quite high.  What they allow or even ignore can be heartbreaking.  I've concluded that the courts aren't there to protect the kids from every emotional bump and bruise and as a result they let much of the supposedly 'lesser' manipulation, guilting and other poor behaviors occur.

That's why you need to, at this early stage, to support the professionals as they hopefully hold your stbxw to being accountable for her actions.  Until now she's had few if any consequences.  Well, the time has come.  Currently she's looking pretty bad, right?  This may be the only opportunity you have to avoid the huge time and expense most of us have suffered with to become or remain empowered parents.  You may not have a "next time" to make up for any timidity you may feel now.  Well, the reality is that if you don't stand up and become the Primary Parent, with the legal professionals supporting you, then in the months and years to come she could more easily grab control of parenting from you.  This may sound harsh and unkind but the kids need you to be the legally authorized Primary Parent, not the Non-Primary Parent facing an uphill struggle.

If you feel you have to be fair to your stbxw, remember that your sense of fairness, kindness or niceness won't be sincerely appreciated or reciprocated by her.  Once your strong parenting has been locked in by the court process, then you could ponder ways to extend some cautious, tentative offers.  Essentially, she must earn her way back, preferably through long term productive therapy, Gifting things back to her would only enable a person who is not solidly on the path to recovery.

Reality: the kids need you far more than your stbxw needs you to let her off the hook or gift her control back.  If need be, step back and ponder the overall picture.  (1) Not just your stbxw needs therapy or counseling.  (And the odds are that she won't comply with and apply therapy like she should.  If she does improve long term, count that as a surprise bonus beyond expectations.)  (2) Your children need counselors, in addition to the school counselors.  (3) You could benefit with counseling too.  Recovery is a process, not an event.  You still need help thinking objectively and not subjectively, you need that independent and experienced insight.

[ForeverDad]

The judge will be looking for solutions.  Be that parent providing solutions.  Don't be the parent only complaining or delaying.  Over time you will gain credibility.  Over time your ex will lose credibility.

[Amazingkids]

The judge will be looking for solutions.  Be that parent providing solutions.  Don't be the parent only complaining or delaying.  Over time you will gain credibility.  Over time your ex will lose credibility.

ForeverDad,

Thank you! That was great advice. Sadly I finally got off the stand after 10 days on it. I would have love to been able to read this sooner. I do have ideas and solutions thanks to all the research and reading (and a lot of useful information in this site). I was trying to do what my lawyer was advincing but it was hard not to come off complaining or delaying since I focused on the kids and did not take care of myself until the end.

Best regards,
AmazingKids

[Amazingkids]

You hit the bulleye with this post. Sadly the trail is coming to an end and I have made a lot of the mistakes you have accurately mentioned not to do. It has been a long battle upward and a struggle to get back on my feet. I have given flashes but my support has been extremely limited.

I am working on me and getting better everyday. As I get better I can be a better father to my kids and what they need. I am at peace that taking everything that has transpired I did the best I could. I gave more than I even knew I had.

You have been extremely kind and wise!
Thank you!
You and Panda39 have given amazing support in a time that I needed support and understanding.

[Panda39]

Hi Amazingkids,

Time to exhale    You did the best you could with what you knew.  Are you still in process or has the judge made is decision?

I gave more than I even knew I had.

That is was we parents do when we love our kids 


Panda39

[Amazingkids]

Hi Panda39,

[/quote]
"Time to exhale You did the best you could with what you knew.  Are you still in process or has the judge made is decision?"
[/quote]

Yes, I am still in the process.  It officially started in June 2016 and next date is July 12, 2018.  It has been over two years of this.  Thank you for the validation!