It does get better; or maybe “it” doesn’t but we do

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

    My divorce was final on Friday. I have to say that, despite a summer cold and bad case of poison ivy, I have felt better the past 5 days than I have in years. I’m meeting with my ex tomorrow to discuss some parenting decisions but I’m not stressing over it. The amount of emotional detachment that’s happened over the past few months has made so much of a difference.  I’m running (okay more “wogging” than running) again and my energy level is back.  I’m finding so much joy in my friendships and time with my kids, but also enjoying (and even missing) my alone time.
    None of this magically happened on Friday. It’s been a long process. There is some relief from no longer waiting for it to be official, but as I look back on the past few weeks I know that the waiting helped me be in a better place when the news came that my 22.5 year marriage was legally over.
    I hope this helps you have hope. Many of you are in some of the toughest days anyone can walk through, but they will get easier and you will find resting places along the way. As someone who has walked some of the paths you have ahead of you I wanted to share the beauty you have to look forward to. You will make it through.
    If there’s ever any way I can help, let me know.
BeagleGirl

[BeagleGirl]

    My divorce was final on Friday. I have to say that, despite a summer cold and bad case of poison ivy, I have felt better the past 5 days than I have in years. I’m meeting with my ex tomorrow to discuss some parenting decisions but I’m not stressing over it. The amount of emotional detachment that’s happened over the past few months has made so much of a difference.  I’m running (okay more “wogging” than running) again and my energy level is back.  I’m finding so much joy in my friendships and time with my kids, but also enjoying (and even missing) my alone time.
    None of this magically happened on Friday. It’s been a long process. There is some relief from no longer waiting for it to be official, but as I look back on the past few weeks I know that the waiting helped me be in a better place when the news came that my 22.5 year marriage was legally over.
    I hope this helps you have hope. Many of you are in some of the toughest days anyone can walk through, but they will get easier and you will find resting places along the way. As someone who has walked some of the paths you have ahead of you I wanted to share the beauty you have to look forward to. You will make it through.
    If there’s ever any way I can help, let me know.
BeagleGirl

[Turkish]

I'm glad you're doing well and in a better place,  BG 

A few of the old timers just read and post on this board and it's a noble thing to stick around and reach out to others. 

T

[livednlearned]

okay more “wogging” than running

 

Congratulations on your newfound peace, BG.

You deserve to feel good.

To meet with your ex and not feel stress is really something.

 

LnL

[Panda39]

I agree it does get better and there is so much to look forward to.

Enjoy your "alone time" 

Panda39

[Notwendy]

Hi BG, I don't have experience with divorce but I have followed your story and admire your candor and personal strength. I am glad that you are feeling better and wish for good things for you in the future.

[toomanydogs]

Hi BeagleGirl!
Wow, did I need to read your post.

Questions:
How long from the time the paperwork was first filed until your divorce was final? I am asking this because I'm worn out from the delays. To give you an idea how slowly this is moving:
My STBX filed Aug. 31. I was without any income from November until the very end of April, at which point I received some back interim but not all and I am now receiving interim. In order to get that interim, I had to first have a court date for interim. The day before that court date, STBX's lawyer filed a motion to vacate the date because I hadn't returned all the documents he'd requested. Not true. It was a delaying tactic. However, the lawyer later that day vacated his own request and the interim went through.
On March 14, I submitted a settlement offer. On May 14, my STBX counter offered with less than 10% of what I had requested. I will submit my counter-counter offer on June 11.
On May 15, my STBX submitted a list of items he wanted to get from the house by June 8. I responded immediately. I agreed to the date and objected to 2 items.
STBX agreed to the date within a day.
I thought we were good to go.
Yesterday afternoon, June 6, my STBX "counter offered" on picking up stuff. Requested that I and my dogs (4 of them, one of whom is elderly and not in good health) be off the property, and he re-requested one of the items I objected to.
I responded saying I had nowhere to go. I have 4 dogs and 6 cats. Those cats are indoor, and I will keep 4 of them in the room with me. A friend will be with me as well. My bedroom is quite large with a bathroom, a mini-refrigerator, a coffeemaker, a TV, and two chairs. It's the size of a hotel suite. It is not going to be difficult to be there.
My STBX counter-counter offered. Said it would be very difficult for me to be in the room for possibly 5 hours, but he had a compromise: I could stay, board the dogs. That I had plenty of money to do so. (My interim is maybe 1/4 of his monthly income, possibly as low as 1/10. Not sure.)
I told my lawyer I'm not going anywhere, the dogs aren't going anywhere, and if he had wanted all these conditions, he should have stated them a month ago.
I'm sorry, Beagle Girl, I may have co-opted your thread. The point in listing all this is that I'm worn out. None of this is easy. As I sit here in bed writing, I'm despairing of this divorce ever being complete, which is why I really needed your post.
I need to believe I will be past this, that I'll get a reasonable, fair settlement, and that I can move on.
So thank you!
TMD   

[formflier]

BG,

 

How have your parenting discussions changed over the past year or so.  It seems obvious that you approach them differently...

Has he changed... .or have your changes forced him to change?

FF

[BeagleGirl]

How long from the time the paperwork was first filed until your divorce was final?


I need to believe I will be past this, that I'll get a reasonable, fair settlement, and that I can move on.

TMD,
    I've followed much of your saga as a "lurker" and my heart goes out to you.  When I see how contentious other divorces are, I realized how blessed I am that my dBPDxh didn't put up more roadblocks.  I also know that my situation was much less stressful because I've been in a much better financial position than most here.  That said, it's been a long process for me as well.

28 Jan '17 - moved out of our family home (into 350 sq ft apartment) and started 1 month NC as part of a therapeutic separation.  Had Mondays, Fridays and every other weekend with my kids.

April '17 - started mediation for legal separation to provide financial protection for me and have legal boundaries in place.  :)id what many of us do and offered up a more than generous settlement offer, and was asked for more.  

May '17 - Still no agreement on what the path to reconciliation would look like, so knowing the separate living arrangements wouldn't work long term, I started telling dBPDxh that he needed to decide if he was going to stay in the family home or find other housing so that I could know what my options were for permanent housing where I could have 50% time with our kids.

July '17 - Moved back into family home (which would be awarded to me in the settlement) and he moved out to a rented house with the intention of buying a house once he got his portion of the marital assets.  Started 50% custody.

August '17 - Let dBPDxh know that I couldn't see how we could work towards reconciliation (that was still my desire) if I was writing him a check every month (he wanted alimony on top of 70% of our marital assets and me taking full financial responsibility for our children).  He decided that he would be willing to forgo alimony.  It's noteworthy that all of this financial support negotiation was for the period of legal separation, but would stand with no real appeal if either of us decided to convert the legal separation to divorce more than 90 days after the legal separation decree - per my state law.  We were both reminded of this during almost every session with our mediator.

September '17 - dBPDxh finally agreed to what we worked out in mediation.  It would probably be more accurate to say "what I worked out and he tore apart with no constructive alternative", but you can probably read that subtext.  

September '17 - January '18 - Now we went to our separate lawyers for review and formalization of the agreement.  There was not a lot more back and forth about the terms, but a lot of delay tactics.

01 Feb '18 - Finally had everything completed necessary for filing for legal separation and my lawyer submitted it.

06 Feb '18 - Legal separation decree finalized.

08 Feb '18 - dBPDxh tells me he is done working on the marriage and wants to convert to divorce as soon as the 90 days are up.  I strongly suspect that he started seeing someone in the weeks leading up to this and that made him much more motivated and cooperative with the legal process.

May '18 - Work through paperwork for conversion of legal separation to divorce with my lawyer.  There were a few logistical issues along the way because it's not very common for people to go the legal separation route in my state, but by 18th May the paperwork was submitted.

01 June '18 - Divorce decree finalized by court.  Probably would not have taken that long under normal circumstances, but our judge was diagnosed with cancer and started treatments right when the paperwork was filed.


I've left out a lot of the drama, but you definitely know that every milestone I listed above was a painful stage in a gauntlet where every aspect of my self and life were tested.  I know how many times over the past 16 months I have wanted not only to hear someone say that I would make it through, but to also see someone who had made it through... .thus my post.  I'm so glad it's giving you hope.

You will make it through this.  It's really hard to see when you are in the dark places, but they WON'T last forever.  I've always thought that I could endure anything if I just knew how long I would have to endure it.  We don't have that luxury when so many things are outside our control.  So I've learned to let go of knowing when it will get better and just holding onto the absolute belief that it WILL get better.  I've also learned to not exert so much effort trying to speed through or cover over the pain.  I have learned the value of sitting with the pain, getting to know it, and learning how incredibly strong I really am.

Oh, and I also learned how to throw a proper pity party.  I have learned who I need to invite.  I have found incredible friends who will pity their hearts out, make sure the party ends at a reasonable hour, and help me clean up afterwards.  

Hang in there TMD.  

BG

[BeagleGirl]

BG,

 

How have your parenting discussions changed over the past year or so.  It seems obvious that you approach them differently...

Has he changed... .or have your changes forced him to change?

FF

FF

That's a good question that I want to ponder on some more, but my quick answer is that my parenting discussions have become less frequent and contentious as I have learned that I don't need to do as much protecting of S15 or dBPDxh.  Basically - I'm learning to hog tie my inner control freak. 

I think it would be a lot more difficult if my kids were younger, but I've started to make peace with the knowledge that I can't control many of the things dBPDxh does that are potentially harmful to S15 and I don't need to get emotionally worked up about engaging the boundaries I DO have control over.  I think it's probably my own version of radical acceptance that I don't and probably won't have a partner in parenting.  It stinks that S15 will face some hardships because of that, but all I can do is help equip him as much as possible and trust that he will learn and grow through those hardships.

As an example - S15 is demonstrating passive aggressive and disrespectful behavior with a teacher and with his youth pastor (verified by S15's counselor that S15 knows what he is doing and has admitted such to counselor, with counselor informing dBPDxh of that knowledge).  This stuff happened on dBPDxh's custody week and he said he'd talk to S15.  When I followed up with dBPDxh on how the conversation went, he said S15 was not aware he was being disrespectful and that the youth pastor was blowing things out of proportion.  After I heard the contradictory information from S15's counselor I decided that I can't change how dBPDxh handles this stuff with S15, but I can address the issues on my time and in my way, with support from S15's counselor.  There are some major parenting decisions that I will need to discuss with dBPDxh, such as whether we offer S15 a clean slate opportunity of looking into other youth groups, but I will need to keep things to facts and figures and dBPDxh's feelings and not come from a broad "partnering to deal with passive aggressive behaviors" direction.

That's assuming dBPDxh will stop cancelling/rescheduling our parenting discussions... .  But I'm learning to deal with that as well.  If he chooses not to engage in the decision making process, he doesn't get a say.  And there are a lot of things that don't fall under "major parenting decisions" that I used to feel needed his input but am now moving on with if he doesn't respond.

BG

[Lugnut]

Congratulations Bg!
I am in the beginning stages of divorcing my uBPDw. She finally got a lawyer and the ball is rolling. My situation since serving her divorce papers about a month ago has mostly been the silent treatment (which I’m accustomed to) with a few rage episodes (including tonight) but I feel so much better already. I’m in counseling with an incredible lady who has helped me tremendously. I have reconnected with old friends and I have a great family to lean on too. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it is looking amazing!
I’m so happy for you to already be there!
Best wishes

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi BeagleGirl,

So happy to hear that you are doing well.  I know it's been a long journey for you.  I'm encouraged by your post.  I had a tough day today and your good news is uplifting.

Wishing you continued peace.

Mustbeabetterway

[Panda39]

Questions:
How long from the time the paperwork was first filed until your divorce was final? I am asking this because I'm worn out from the delays. To give you an idea how slowly this is moving:

Divorcing a high conflict person... .



Hang in there toomanydogs 

Panda39

[toomanydogs]

Divorcing a high conflict person... .



Hang in there toomanydogs 

Panda39

Thanks, Panda!   
TMD

[BeagleGirl]

Quick update:

I had coffee with dBPDxh yesterday so we could discuss some parenting stuff and "wrap up logistics".  It went very well.  I have no firm expectations that he will do any of the things that I've requested (or even what he says he'll do), but rest in knowing I've done my part in attempting to co-parent and I can pick up the slack on the parenting stuff during my custody weeks. 

In the course of the discussion he admitted that he is seeing our church secretary, as I have suspected.  I have to say it was quite a relief to know that I haven't been imagining things.  He says they are serious, and he's wanting to tell our boys that they are dating pretty soon.  I asked him to consider talking to S15's counselor before doing so and thanked him for letting me know.  I also suggested that he might consider letting the boys know that I know when he tells them, so they don't feel like they are keeping a secret from me. 

I'm feeling pretty good about "radically accepting" that he's going to do what he's going to do and just doing what I can to soften the impact on our kids wherever I can.  I wouldn't have chosen for them to need to deal with the idea of a blended family (dBPDxh's gf has two young adult sons who are still living with and dependent on her, which I suspect will result in the need to "blend" so soon after hearing that we are divorced.  Heck, I wouldn't have chosen most of this.  But I feel like getting to a place where I can accept that I don't get to choose anything other than my behavior has freed me up to be a better mom.  My energy is more constructively focused when I'm not expending it fighting battles I probably would never win.

That said, I would welcome any advice any of you can offer on helping my boys (S19 and S15) as they learn of and adjust to their dad's new relationship.

[formflier]

My guess is that the less you say the better about the new relationship. 

I do think that you are on the right track about counselor first... then you two talk again... .then let Dad chat first.  Do you guys "tell him things" together?

I'm thinking that a couple sentences is all you need to say.

My guess is counselor will tell you guys to wait. 

FF

[livednlearned]

I would welcome any advice any of you can offer on helping my boys (S19 and S15) as they learn of and adjust to their dad's new relationship.

My experience is that more you focus on how the kids feel, the more emotionally safe you make it for them, the more they will open up and share how they feel.

And even when they share how they feel, try to stay focused on them, not you.

Which I found to be easier said than done!

Humans are excellent at sensing intention, so be aware of your intention when speaking about the new relationship, to the best of your ability.

In the early days after my divorce I was good at saying the right thing, but my son could sense my intention, which was often to feel validated or vindicated. That's what people with BPD do, to a degree that can be abusive. The non parent has to work so much harder to not seek validation from kids because that wound is so raw.

None of us want to feel that way, but it's pretty human after what we go through, especially wanting some sort of approval from the kids that we did the right thing for them by leaving.

[BeagleGirl]

In the early days after my divorce I was good at saying the right thing, but my son could sense my intention, which was often to feel validated or vindicated. That's what people with BPD do, to a degree that can be abusive. The non parent has to work so much harder to not seek validation from kids because that wound is so raw.

Thanks for this LnL.  I would like to say that I've been dealing with this news pretty well, but reading what you posted really helped me see more clearly that I DO want to feel validated and vindicated.  My hope (and focus of emotional work) is that this time where I know about dBPDxh's new relationship and my sons don't can be a time where I seek that validation from appropriate sources (therapist and my two closest friends) so I can focus on my sons' feelings when the time comes for them to be informed.

FF,
We made the "announcement" of our impending divorce together, but when the divorce was final dBPDxh felt he was not "needed" in the conversation informing our sons that the divorce was final.  I suspect that he won't feel it's necessary for me to be a part of telling our boys about his new relationship, and I don't know that I would argue that.  I'll definitely check with S15's therapist. 

While I tend to agree that S15's therapist may caution against telling the boys about the new relationship so soon after our divorce, I have seen precedent for dBPDxh ignoring the advice of the therapist (he told S15 about our intentions to divorce before the time frame T suggested) and there is a possibility that T has established that S15 suspects the relationship and might feel it better to confirm S15's suspicion. 

This brings me to a question for those with children seeing a therapist - S15's T has been open with dBPDxh, me, and S15 about the fact that he is under no obligation to withhold any information shared by S15 in sessions from dBPDxh and/or me because S15 is a minor.  T has shared with dBPDxh and me that there are issues that he is encouraging S15 to discuss with us that S15 does not feel ready to discuss.  T IS a mandatory reporter, so these issues have to fall short of the criteria for mandatory reporting, so I am choosing to remain "ignorant" of the issues S15 is not ready to deal with to facilitate the trust relationship he has with his T (T has asked S15 if he would be willing to have T share the issues with dBPDxh and me, S15 has said he's not ready, T is respecting S15's wishes) and give S15 the opportunity to reach a point of willingness to test his trust in dBPDxh and me by sharing the issues he is dealing with.  Has anyone else been in a similar position?  Any regrets for not demanding to have full knowledge of your child's revelations to T?  Any "success stories" from allowing T to work with child to have open up to you rather than reporting to you directly?

Thanks,
BG

[formflier]

I would encourage patience... .and that patience goes both ways.  You will wait for him to be comfortable to talk... .and there will likely be times where he will have to wait as well.

And... you have the comfort of knowing that this is a T that is legally responsible to "report" things that are really big deals.

FF