BPD suicide ideation: Is this real or manipulation?

[talking rose]

Hi, my BPD ex husband has threatened suicide on numerous occasions, usually followed by "I wouldn't actually kill myself, I'm just trying to show you how upset you make me."  Until one day when he cried that he wants to kill himself, had a full plan to do so, and was hospitalized on a 72 hour hold.  He came out and said he wasn't really going to kill himself, as usual, but honestly I am not sure if he would have or not in his moment of despair.

And that's my question today.  I just read an article about how the greatest predictor of suicide is a previous failed suicide attempt.  I know that suicide ideation and suicide attempt are not the same thing, but I wonder if BPD suicide ideation is a precursor to suicide?  At the time of his hospitalization, his despair was so real, I was scared that he might go through with it.  Since then, based on the things he has said, I came to the conclusion that he would not actually do it, and this might be mean to say, but it's part of the drama.  But now today I am wondering again if it is real or not.

I guess that is the story with everything borderline, wondering what is real and what is manipulation.

[RomanticFool]

Hi talking rose,

That sounds terribly stressful and emotionally draining for you and very dangerous and worrying behaviour from him.

I was embroiled in a long term affair with a married woman with undiagnosed BPD traits and when I finally tried to break things off after years of ST from her and abusive neglect, she contacted me a month later to say that she had tried to take her own life.

The advice I was given on here was to take it seriously. Like you I wasn’t sure if it was a manipulation device and since my only contact with my ex is texting, I only have her word for what happened. However, my ex married uBPD lover does have a history of suicide attempts and suicidal ideation. I showed her empathy at the time and treated her as if she had tried to do it. Over a year later, I do now think it was a genuine attempt by her and I resolved to change the nature of our r/s. She used to tell me I was driving her mad and since she suffers from severe depression I had to stop the intensity of the r/s as it was clear my desire for a high octane and highly intense and passionate r/s was also highly combustible as far as she is concerned. By taking all the drama out of the situation we now have a cordial friendship devoid of any drama. We no longer have a sexual r/s (we used to meet occasionally for trysts) and I think we both need the contact but she wants nothing more than that or so it seems.

It is very difficult for BPDs to let people go. While there is undoubtedly manipulation in their behaviour I would always take suicide threats seriously unless you are certain it is manipulation.

What is the nature of your r/s with your ex now?

[talking rose]

Hi Romantic Fool,

My relationship with him now is civil, and mostly via text and regarding the children. 

When we were married, I always acted in a way that took his suicide threats seriously.   I always thought it might be a manipulation tactic, but it wasn't a gamble I was willing to take.  The most recent suicide threat was so real that I was actually scared he would do it, even while a part of me felt manipulated.  But after he came out of the hospital, he told me and everyone who would listen that he didn't REALLY want to kill himself, it's just that I drove him crazy to the point of extreme depression (he was diagnosed with severe depression at the hospital) and that was his way of expressing it.  After that, I told myself that BPD suicide threats are manipulation of the highest order!

But these days I'm reading all these articles about suicide risk factors, and he checks so many boxes.  I don't know why I am so worried about this, but it scares me.  Not that I can do anything about it anyway.  He is currently seeing a therapist weekly, and taking meds for depression, so I am hoping that helps.  But I know it doesn't help his BPD.  The scariest thought to me is for him to make a suicide attempt when he has the kids over.  I know this is unhealthy of me, but I was his caregiver for so many years, the thought of him and my kids all together without me, facing this danger, makes me feel so helpless and scared.  So I guess I like to reassure myself that it isn't a REAL danger, it's a threat he uses to get his way.  But I don't know how true that is.

[RomanticFool]

Hi talking rose,

What I have discovered works with my ex is to take all the drama out of a situation. For years I mistrusted her and convinced myself she was ‘cheating’ on me, which is ludicrous considering we are both married. Now that we are some distance from a sexual r/s messing with my head and causing my own emotions to become so extreme that I cannot be empathic towards her, I feel more able and willing to understand her illness and not take things personally.

A person with severe depression and BPD traits is emotionally inconsistent. This was a hard lesson for me to learn with my ex. I thought her suicide attempt was my fault for trying to end the situation with her because I was tired of being marginalised in her life, but I have learnt that no matter how much she blames me, her emotional life is volatile anyway and she is prone to addictive, impulsive and harmful behaviour. However, it was true that I was not helping her emotional stability by demanding high octane trysts and passionate declarations of love from a woman I found irresistibly attractive but emotionally abusive. The problem was I was addicted to the passion and emotional high it gave me. I also believe that I am in love with her - whatever that means.

What I had to do was learn to detach from her emotionally. I care about her enough to keep her in my life but I have no expectations of anything from her. I characterise all of our conversations by using my natural empathy and some validation skills that I have learnt on the pages of this website. Validation is a very important skill.

As you are no longer with your ex I would encourage you to treat him in a way that keeps the drama at a low level and nullifies any conflict between you and eventually he may well simply get bored. People with BPD have very changeable emotional states, especially when depression is a factor. It will help your r/s with him and your children’s r/s to keep things as much on an even keel as you can. That doesn’t mean that you are responsible for his emotional life nor should you ever allow yourself to be abused, but a lack of drama should ensure there are no grand or dramatic gestures from him. I’m not saying his suicide attempts are manipulation and I don’t think it is helpful to view them as such, but keep an emotional even keel between you will take all of the drama and stress out of the situation.

What stage of your break up are you at? Is he trying to get you back?

[BeagleGirl]

Talking Rose,
I’m so sorry you are going through this. My dBPDxh was communicating some suicidal ideation to our counselor a little over a year ago and I remember how much fear and uncertainty I felt. As with you, my biggest fear was that he would attempt (or succeed) when he had our son.

My counselor felt that his talk of suicide needed to be responded to as if serious but also treated as a manipulative tactic. While I should report and have professionals take over, I should also say the following to him:

1.  I can acknowledge that I and our sons would be saddened by his death and would grieve for a time.
2.  I understand that his suicide would not be my fault and I would not feel responsible for his choice to end his life.
3.  After a period of grieving, my sons and I would move on with our lives.  I would likely remarry if God brought the right man into my life.  Our sons will likely marry and have children.  I will enjoy my DILs and grandchildren fully.
4.  By giving up on life, he would miss out on meeting his DILs and grandchildren, among other joys that he has yet to experience.

Easier said than done, but it was my T’s goal to have me live out the truth of those statements should dBPDxh ever follow through on his threats. Fortunately dBPDxh switched tactics and I never had the opportunity to say those things to him, but I believe they served the purpose my T intended of helping me escape the FOG his threats created.

I wish you the best.
BeagleGirl

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Talking Rose, This is a sensitive subject for me because my BPDxW threatened suicide many times, probably on about 12-15 occasions.  Twice I went to the behavioral health unit at our local hospital, because I lacked the skills to handle suicide threats.  Once I contacted her T directly about it.  The hard part was the knowledge that some who threaten suicide actually carry out an attempt and sometimes succeed.  Even though I knew that my Ex was likely crying wolf, just like the previous threat, that fear about the small percentage who carry it out was terrifying to me. 

On one hand, it's the ultimate manipulation; on the other hand, it's a cry for help from someone in deep emotional pain.  I didn't call 911 because I never thought she would carry it out and was worried about traumatizing the kids with blue lights in the night.  I still am uncertain whether I did the right thing.

Will probably be back later as I have more to say.

LuckyJim

[talking rose]

Romantic Fool, you are spot on about BPDs having very changeable emotional states.  That in fact might be a one-liner I can use to describe my ex husband!  And put so succinctly, it helps me with perspective.  Thank you for that.

Beagle Girl, your therapist gave you excellent advice!  I think I will write those points down and keep them handy should he threaten suicide again.  Thank you!

Lucky Jim, exactly how I feel!  I know it's manipulation, and yet still it somehow manages to scare the crap out of me.
I look forward to hearing what else you have to say.

[MeandThee29]

The changing emotions are one of the hardest aspects.

I read something today to the effect that it is normal to be angry when there is pain of any type. Healthy people will take a break and/or talk it through, but some people go on slow simmer and boil over at the least provocation, particularly if they hold the individual in contempt. That puts you into a no-win situation.

Mine gave no hints that he was going to attempt until he made his final phone calls. He made sure we didn't know where he was, but someone did find him. My therapist said he wanted to be found, but warned that another attempt might not be that way. You have to take every hint seriously.

[talking rose]

mineandthee, that's what i'm worried about.  that even if he doesn't want to go through with it, even if he wants to be saved from suicide, that in a moment of dark despair one day he will actually go through with it.

i was thinking that part of the disease is a feeling of shame, and the need to have people prove their love.  this might seem like the ultimate proving of love, having those around him save his life, even when he is the threat to it.

he confided in me years ago that as a teen,  he would fantasize endlessly about his funeral, how if he died everyone would finally come out and show him some love, how he would listen from afar as all the people in his life who didn't show any concern for him would now be crying over him, and talking lovingly about him. 

i have a feeling those fantasies never went away.