Self-Esteem, How can we build it up?

[Panda39]

Most of you know I'm on these boards because I have a SO with an uBPDxw and they share 2 daughters.  Some of you know I was in a co-dependent marriage with an alcoholic and some of you know I have a critical (non-BPD) mom.
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The life of someone with low self-esteem (just so you know my story and where it comes from)... .

I suffered from low self-esteem for years.  I believed my mother's criticisms she was my mother, she was an adult, she knew things I didn't, so she must be right.  I believed that I wasn't good enough and believed that I wasn't smart enough.  I believed it so much that I had a teenage rebellion in part to prove I could be what she expected me to be.

I chose bad boys with good hearts as partners I could fix and rescue so I could feel good about myself.  Never gave any thought to how I was being treated, it was all about them.

I was in a long term relationship from 16-25 that ended with him cheating on me.  I blamed myself.  If I had done this or that, if I was more perfect, if I was something I wasn't he would have stayed with me, right?  We (he) could have been happy, right?

I met my rebound man a year later and married him.  I had no experience with so I didn't recognize the alcoholism.  By the time I did when my husband had his first DUI I had a 3mo. old son that I believed I couldn't support on my own.  In my mind my parents were not an option for help.  I was told not to ask them for money again (when asking for assistance for some dental work) so I didn't.  I stayed married for almost 20 years, had depression, weight gain, was co-dependent, gradually cut off my social life, felt I could not voice my opinions at work (that I was too emotional) so I was resentful at work... .was miserable. My self-esteem was in the toilet.,

How did I start climbing up the pit of depression and low self-esteem?  I started to take care of me, I quit smoking and I started to exercise.  I started feeling physically better and started to lose weight.  I was walking out in the sun, getting some me time, getting those endorphins going. 

I reconnected with someone from my past that reminded me of who I once was.  That adventurous girl, the artistic girl, the funny girl, the irreverent girl with the dirty mind and potty mouth.  I was reminded that I was loved and I was loved just as I was... .my authentic self. 

This gave me some confidence to reach out to my current friends in a real way (up until then it was superficial).  I had a wonderful group of friends step up and support me as I broke away from my marriage and as I pushed through fear and put myself back out there into the world.  Of those friends one was really diplomatic at work and was really good at asking for the things she needed.  I began to learn from her and emulate her and was able to gradually ask for the things I needed so became much less resentful at work.

I realized that I was a great person and could be loved just as I was, warts and all.
I realized that my mom and I were a mismatch, that I would never be who she wanted me to be and that she would never be who I wanted her to be.  I recognized that her criticisms of me were really about her, about how I reflect on her, how important keeping up appearances is to her, about her own fear of rejection.  I know longer believed or took personally the hurtful things she said 
they were about her not me.

I've brought up this topic because I see low-self esteem with my SO's daughter and I see it here among other children with BPDmoms.  I was fortunate, my journey kind of just happened it was one thing, that led to the next thing, that led me back to me.

I would like to support my SO's daughter and the folks here better but how do you build someone else's self esteem? How do you convince someone that second guesses themselves all the time to believe in themselves?  How do you learn to not shut down in a conflict at work?  How can you help someone love themselves and trust themselves?  I'd like to talk about the tools we could use to build self-esteem.

As I think about my story I see validation (from my friend from the past) and mindfulness (when dealing with my mom's criticism) as tools I used.

What has helped you build your self-esteem? 

Panda39

[Kwamina]

Hi Panda39

Thanks for starting this wonderful thread. It's quite awesome reading about your journey and growth, you are quite awesome actually

I would like to support my SO's daughter and the folks here better but how do you build someone else's self esteem? How do you convince someone that second guesses themselves all the time to believe in themselves?  How do you learn to not shut down in a conflict at work?  How can you help someone love themselves and trust themselves?

I think loving themselves, ultimately is something the other person will need to learn themselves, but we can gently try to nudge them in a certain direction of course  What we can do is try to model what loving yourself looks like and create an unconditionally loving and accepting environment in which the other person feels safe and embraced by our love and care. I had two aunts who are no longer alive and their unconditional love for me was so strong and ever present that it almost felt tangible, no need to prove my worthiness when I was around and/or talked to them because they already unconditionally loved and accepted me since the day I was born and that never changed.

I think the concept of radical acceptance can also be applied here, it can be very powerful if we can mirror back to a person that we radically accept him or her as a person regardless of how they look, what they have, what they do etc. Listening, particularly empathetic listening and validation as a way of life can be transformative. Simply being kind to another person when he/she feels undeserving of kindness can make a huge difference. I remember when I was a teenager, I worked at a grocery store and was out back behind the store when someone asked me something. I could not make out what he said so I turned around and replied 'What did you say sir?' I saw his eyes lit up when I referred to him as sir, he clearly was not used to getting that respect and being talked to in a gentle manner and perhaps had started to believe he wasn't worthy of it either. It was a homeless man and he asked if he could have the bunch of old clothes on the ground. I said he could and he was very grateful, eyes still lit up. This and also some other encounters showed me the immense power of words and how much a little respect and kindness can mean to another person.

To quote don Miguel: 'Be impeccable with your word"

The Board Parrot

[Panda39]

Your aunts make me think of my dad.  I am so grateful that he was in my life he did love me... .the authentic me... .unconditionally.  I unfortunately lost him when I was just 33 and he was only 62.  He was the glue of my family... .or maybe he simply was my family.  My mom was closer to my brother.  He was the natural match for her, he is intellectual she is intellectual.  I'm not particularly close to either of them, there isn't anything adversarial going I am just different from them.

I have created my own family around me.  My son, my SO and his daughters, and a wonderful group of friends and their spouses. Kwamina you're on the money with validation... .everyone I have surrounded myself with likes me for who I am, I don't have to be someone I'm not, they all support me, encourage me to try things that push me outside of my comfort zone... .helping me grow.

Okay so maybe tool number one - Validation - Find those people in your life that support you (with no strings attached!) and that validate you. Nurture those relationships and try to cultivate more.

Radical Acceptance... .I somehow stumbled into this with my mom... .she is who she is and isn't going to change.  The next step for me was mindfulness (adding logic to my emotional way of thinking) by doing so I realized that I didn't need to believe her criticisms any longer.  That switch from automatically believing what she said must be true, to a more objective and discerning approach to what she said has definitely helped.

Radical acceptance is something I've wished for in terms of my SO's D17 and her mother.  I think the relationship she has with her mother could improve if she could accept that her mother is who she is and to let go of expectations that mom is going to change or be different.  But radical acceptance feels a million miles away. It seems like she is up against so much in terms of... .Family patterns/roles... .the dysfunctional things learned from her mother... .struggles with boundaries, with people pleasing, with aversion to conflict etc.  I'm not sure she has the tools to protect herself if she accepts her mother as she is.

D21 I think does accept her mother as she is and she has chosen not to have her in her life (at least for now).

Radical acceptance of ourselves.  We are who we are imperfections and all. We will not always be perfect and we are not always terrible. We are not black and white although that is what is we can learn to believe from a BPD parent.  We are truly somewhere in the middle.  Accepting we are who we are and that not everyone is going to like us, or agree with us, or see us as we see ourselves and that is okay. That does not mean we are defective or bad or stupid etc.  

Tool number 2 Radical Acceptance of ourselves and others.

I was thinking about this post yesterday I think one of the things that kept me stuck was Fear.  Fear that I would be rejected, or appear stupid, fear of failure etc.  So pushing through fear might be another tool in the toolbox.

Pink's lyrics were my mantra... ."Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care"

How have some of you pushed through fear?

Panda39

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Panda39, 

I really like this theme and the reflection it causes me to have as I ponder my own journey to healing.

For tonight I'll be brief but can say hands down that it wasn't until I had some consistent people who believed in me and who loved me unconditionally that I was able to begin to trust. It was slow, like a snail's pace, to begin to think that those around me wouldn't change and dump me or become angry if I made a mistake. The fact that they were steady and unfailing and faithful, seeing things in me that I couldn't see in myself-this was what I so desperately needed.

I was almost 50 years old when I was given this gift from my co-workers and my T. It has made all the difference in the world.

 
Wools

[Turkish]

I recognized that her criticisms of me were really about her, about how I reflect on her, how important keeping up appearances is to her, about her own fear of rejection.  I know longer believed or took personally the hurtful things she said 
they were about her not me.

Thanks for sharing what helped on your journey to healing! We all know that it's very hard to seperate from our parents who may have enmeshed us into their own dysfunctional world views, whether we were clinically enmeshed or not.  Words have so much power,  and even more so coming from parents given that as children we know nothing else.  Our parents are our first mirrors,  good or bad. 

I'm not turning this into a Christian or Jewish thread,  but my T told me early on about positive mirroring,  in that God spoke to Moses face to face, as a man would speak to his friend.  I'm human.  I fail, but I try to take the opportunity to gaze into my childrens' eyes and tell them that I love them.  This can be after I may raise my voice or tell them not to do something after which they get mad and call me a "meanie." Yet when I do this,  they coo. Not telling them I love them one day and the next demeaning them as people or smacking them or throwing stuff at them (how confusing to do that!). I feel a little badly saying this because my mother did do some good things,  but I think I'm doing better than my mother thus far.  In that,  I take it as positive to my self esteem.  And if I were ASD1 as my son is... .thank God I wasn't because I don't think I would have turned out well given everything on retrospect.

I did have a few people who believed in me unconditionally and that helped a lot. 

I was a major introvert, and looking back I don't think I broke out of my shell until my mid 30s, when I decided to,  dragging myself kicking and screaming, as it were.  Support was great,  but I had to make a conscious decision not to accept things as they were and to do the work myself also.  Try on different things.  Put myself out there.  Mentoring at risk youth helped BIG TIME, and I did it in 2007 a few years after I first thought of doing it.  To anyone who has thought of mentoring in particular,  regulars or lurkers, I can only say DO IT. You and your charges will relate. That was my first big step into believing in myself as a person. That I met my ex as a fellow mentor is another story,  so watch your boundaries 

[HappyChappy]

Hey Panda#1,

Great topic choice. Big bear hug, Panda.  Your low self esteem does not come though in your writing.
 
My T told me to look in the mirror every day and remind me what’s good about me, even if that was just “well you’re not dead yet”. To list all your achievements, like “I’m not dead yet.” and read them through each day, every day. To basically learn to love yourself by complementing yourself. Being British I though this was a bit vain and immodest.  But it actually helped me.  

How to build self esteem: The other thing is helping others out, gives a sense of value, but I’m guessing you know that. But I think you are fab Panda, you’ve helped loads of people on here and you seem to have a flare for it, you have way more patience than I do. And you’re the only talking Panda I know, so that’s quiet an achievement.  Mind you someone should tell Pandas the jungle isn't black and white, no wonder you're almost extinct.

And Panda, Turk got his highlighter pen out for you, and he only does that for vip members. Have a good weekend, group hug  

[Panda39]

Wools
I totally relate to building trust taking time.  I will also add my surprise at all the people that stepped up for me and that cared about me in a much more than superficial way.  When I went through my divorce I felt like I was in some sort of synchronicity with the Universe.  Everyone and everything I needed just showed up when I needed it to and my SO during his divorce had the same experience.

But it wasn't magic... .it was trust, it was reaching out to others, and it was asking for what we needed. Wools I was 47 when all of this was going on so you're not alone in being a late bloomer 

I had not been doing any of those things, in my co-dependence and in my depression.  I just carried the load, because I couldn't trust that there was help, and I felt that I couldn't reach out to anyone that my messed up marriage was my problem, and asking for what I needed... .not in a million years... .I would look weak or stupid or people where unreliable or would let me down, so just don't ask.

My mother's first reaction to me telling her I wanted out of my marriage and would need financial help to do it was to tell me that "I guess you'll need to go on public assistance" (my mother had just sold our family home in the Bay Area for half a million dollars).  She came back to me later, did the kind and helpful thing and offered me $10,000 (and I spent just over half).  This was when I realized that she reacts first and then thinks about it later.  This is classic mom... .wonder why trust and asking for what I need is so hard for me? 

Turkish

I am an introvert too (just an aside... .a good book about introverts... .Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain)

Yes, reaching out and getting out was a huge part of building my self-esteem.  Doing this also involved pushing through fear.  The boon year for me of change and divorce was 2009.  But I started working on myself and taking small steps before that.  I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts that professionally I have never done anything with.  I make things but never sold any.  One of those lovely friends of mine suggested I sell some of my things at our employers annual craft fair.  I was excited about the idea and nervous... .it was putting myself out there, the real me, I was being vulnerable and pushing through fear.  I signed up. 

My husband asked me why I was doing this (which shows how little he knew me) and told me I wouldn't make any money.  I came home with $300 all from the sale of inexpensive greeting cards that I had made. It was quite the haul and an amazing confidence boost.  Add to that, doing the craft fair was something affirming to my authentic self and the day was really a winner.

Another way I put myself out there was socializing with others.  I had cut myself off for a long time and I'm an introvert so again pushing through discomfort and some fear.  I started by going to lunch with one friend, and then happy hour with co-workers, and going out for chick flick night, and dinners that involved my friends spouses, and finally pushing myself to go to a party where I only knew one other person (and I lived! I actually had a good time!).

So tool number 3 learning to trust others

Tool number 4 be bold and put yourself out there

Tool number 5 push through your fear

HappyChappy I'll have to get to you later, you silly man (I have always loved your sense of humor!) I've got to get ready for work!

Thank you all for your comments 

Panda39

[Kwamina]

It was slow, like a snail's pace

Well you know what they say, slow and steady wins the race. Just ask tortoise, that's how he beat hare!

[Panda39]

In re-reading some of this... .

Tool #6 Stop listening to the Nay-Sayers Don't listen to what the negative Nellies in your life tell you, you can't do. If you succeed that's wonderful!  If you fail what did you learn?  How do you use what you learned to change your approach next time?  

If you fail at doing something it does not mean that your are a failure as a person.  Failure is a learning tool.

Stop listening to the Nay Sayers ties into Happy Chappy's next tool... .

My T told me to look in the mirror every day and remind me what’s good about me, even if that was just “well you’re not dead yet”. To list all your achievements, like “I’m not dead yet.” and read them through each day, every day. To basically learn to love yourself by complementing yourself. Being British I though this was a bit vain and immodest.  But it actually helped me.

I'm really glad you're not dead yet too    I would really miss your sense of humor.  So giving your self some self-validation, I like it!  Shut up that critical voice in your head... .did someone hear my mother?

Tool #7 Self-Validation Remind ourselves of our good qualities.  

How to build self esteem: The other thing is helping others out, gives a sense of value... .

I agree that helping others is definitely a feel good activity and very worth while... .with the caveat that we know our limits, don't sacrifice ourselves, and have boundaries.

Tool #8 Helping others - within reason  

... .you’re the only talking Panda I know, so that’s quiet an achievement.  Mind you someone should tell Pandas the jungle isn't black and white, no wonder you're almost extinct.

I've always identified with the Panda because they are cute, eat, sleep, and play... .now there's a way to live!

Happy Chappy these days my self-esteem is pretty good (I still have my moments occasionally though).

Panda39

[Harri]

Panda, I agree with Kwamina, you are awesome! 

I had to think about this quite a bit.  I am still working on getting more self-esteem but the people here have been instrumental in helping me be okay with me being me (still in progress tho).  Time after time I post and someone comes along and lifts me up, or even kneels beside me with a supportive hand or opens my eyes to a new perspective.  It is not always easy and sometimes it even hurts, but seeing myself through the eyes of others here is what has made a huge difference.  I get the same from my T but this board with more voices that add together and who do not 'have to' listen to my story and are not trained, means as much if not more to me. 

A friend of mine from long long ago once said to me 'Harri, I wish you could see you the way I do'.  It did not make a whole lot of sense back then as I was still just 18 or so, but it stuck with me.  It has taken all these years for it to begin to sink in.  Perspective.  Perspective without the abusive lies, whether verbal or through glances or silent rages or rejections.  I remember my friend saying that to me and I know she was frustrated with me at the time.  Instead of losing patience like I would have back then, she chose to turn it around a bit and knew something more was going on with me, something buried deep.  Neither one of us knew what or the extent but she saw something.

You and the other people here who have helped me are like that old friend.  Rare but vital blessings. 

Now, I have nothing further to add here.  I am here to learn from you all so thank you for posting everyone!

PS.  Maybe we need Stuart Smalley here?  "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

[Panda39]

Hi Harri

Outside perspective. Tricky. This will require discernment. What is the perspective? Who is giving their perspective? Do they have their own agenda behind sharing their perspective? Do we recognize their motivations?  Do those motivations matter? Are those motivations benign or something else? Do we believe the perspective? Is the perspective helpful or should we discard it?

I agree outside perspective can be helpful if done by the right person.  In my story my friend from the past reminded me of who I was which helped give me perspective on my current situation at the time.  It helped me see the dysfunctional soup I was living in.  I had 20 years of lapses... .ignoring or minimizing things I shouldn't have.  I was looking at the old me facing the new me and I didn't like what I saw.

Or my friend who saw the authentic Panda's creativity and encouraged me to do the craft fair when I didn't believe my stuff wasn't good enough to sell.  Her perspective was validating and spurred me forward through the fear of failure.

I say outside perspective is tricky though because when I believed my mother's perspective I believed the message I was receiving that I wasn't smart. She was my mother, she was an adult, she was all knowing, she loved me, all reasons why I should trust her perspective so I did.  It took a long time and life experience to re-evaluate this belief and to finally discard it.

Outside perspective is also tricky because the outside perspective might also be something hard for us to hear, but that also might be good for us to hear and consider.  We can reject this type of perspective out of hand, because we feel criticized or hurt when accepting the perspective instead might create growth.

I would put "Outside Perspective" under Tool 1 Validating People.

Maybe we need Stuart Smalley here?  "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

Harri from where I sit you're pretty awesome too!  Smart, funny, empathetic, caring, probing, forward moving, articulate... .

Panda39

[Turkish]

Lol.  So many opportunities in life to use the Sally Field meme... .haha.

[Learning2Thrive]

Having difficulty posting again.  Here is what I had typed but it didn’t post:

Hi Panda  

Further to your thoughts on outside perspective... .

I was wondering about this. In healthy families children learn healthy behaviors by watching their parents or primary caregivers model those behaviors, including self esteem and choosing wise counsel (outside perspective).

So I *think* building positive self esteem requires the ability to decern wise counsel (outside perspective). If we didn’t see this modeled by our parents we are more vulnerable to poor choices and people pleasing behaviors to try to get the love (Mother’s love) and validation we so desperately seek. I was an excellent student, extremely responsible, shy, well behaved, obedient, rule follower and constant over-achiever, and still she never saw me or loved me just for me. My self esteem has been so vulnerable despite my many successes in many areas of my life because it’s taken me 50 years to start to figure out I will never receive her genuine love or validation and I don’t need it because she has a mental illness and is completely incapable of recognizing healthy behavior.

[Panda39]

Learning2Thrive the writing and not posting must be catching.  I wrote a long response yesterday and accidentally deleted the whole thing... .Noo!   So here I am to try and reconstitute my response again. 

So I *think* building positive self esteem requires the ability to decern wise counsel (outside perspective). If we didn’t see this modeled by our parents we are more vulnerable to poor choices and people pleasing behaviors to try to get the love (Mother’s love) and validation we so desperately seek. I was an excellent student, extremely responsible, shy, well behaved, obedient, rule follower and constant over-achiever, and still she never saw me or loved me just for me.

I relate to this a lot and it still has ramifications with me today.  At work my department did the "Strength Finders" quiz.  My number one strength was Responsibility.  Responsibility, that sounds really good... .you are reliable, you do what you say you are going to do... .Yay! Great!... .until it's not. 

It's great until two responsibilities conflict and you implode, or when responsibilities take over your life... .you can't relax and play until all of your responsibilities are met... .yep OCDish here, or you hide behind your responsibilities to avoid things you don't want to do or are outside of your comfort zone, or when you take on responsibilities that aren't yours. 

I did both what you did... .tried to be perfect and I also rebelled... .well if I'm such a bad person I'll show you how bad I can be! Doing anything to not be invisible.

Okay so back to... .ability to discern wise counsel (outside perspective)... .

So in thinking about this more, it takes me to those special people in our lives that made/make a difference... .Kwamina's aunts, Turkish's "brother from another mother", Notwendy's father's family etc. and maybe even some less important people, but people that taught us something along the way.

I guess my question is with the "discernment", how good is your discernment when your upbringing is dysfunctional? Are you trusting someone you shouldn't?  Are you sharing too much? Do you know good advice when you see it? Are you selecting outside counsel from reliable people.

When I first met my SO his younger daughter's best friend was the daughter of an alcoholic father and enabling mother.  They related because of their dysfunction and their friendship ended because of it.  The next best friend was bipolar so she picked someone similar to her mother and this friendship went down in flames... .and so it went.   But alongside these friendships she has had others, teachers, her therapist, her father and I, also in her life so she has made progress in a positive direction over time and these days has healthier... .less dramatic (as you can get being a teenage girl friendships.

I stared thinking of discernment in relation to other tools we've posted here and thought it could go under several of them and then realized it might work better the other way around (and this is were I hit delete yesterday, so very carefully I will proceed  ) I think this is a tool with sub categories under it (some of the sub categories both stand alone and work here too)...

Discerning Wise Counsel

      Validation - Find those people in your life that support you (with no strings
     attached!) and that validate you. Nurture those relationships and try to
     cultivate more.    

     Stop listening to the Nay-Sayers

     Learning to trust others

     Be bold and put yourself out there

     Push through your fear

Gonna add a couple of things here... .

     Let go of relationships that don't work for you

     It's okay to make mistakes, they are a learning tool... .you don't have to be
     perfect

What else could we add here?

Panda39

[Turkish]

I have 3 other "brothers" and we all share coming from dysfunctional families.  2/3 are brothers whose mother was likely BPD possibly schizophrenic (very, very low functioning). The one brother hated her with a passion.  She may have molested him but I'd never ever bring that up.  The 3rd had a deadbeat mom who abandoned them when he was 11. Our mutual stories helped bond us.  The funny thing is that we are all very independent from young ages.  It certainly helps to have mutual support when needed. 

The funny thing is that they are surprised I've done ok in life given what they witnessed when we were teens.  Kind of aback handed compliment but I'll take it. 

[Panda39]

I can image this young band of brothers all supporting and all pushing each other forward, learning from each other... .okay and maybe getting into some mischief 

Don't sell yourself short Turkish there are so many other roads you could have gone down that you didn't.  You are intelligent, resilient, kind, independent, a successful father, funny, self motivated... .the best wolf I know... .okay the only wolf I know, but still    You are (we all are) who you are both because of and in spite of your upbringing.

Panda39

[Learning2Thrive]

Panda, I love this thread. It’s really making me think.

I would add to your list: Let go of Pefectionism. It is a trap that leads to self-loathing, it is not a badge of honor. Being your best self is GOOD ENOUGH!

[Learning2Thrive]

Panda wrote:

  It's okay to make mistakes, they are a learning tool... .you don't have to be perfect

I acknowledge your post on this and I wholly agree. However, I think it’s a bit different from PERFECTIONISM.

Some kids who grow up with PD parents purse perfectionism. From Pete Walker’s website:

Perfectionism is the unparalleled defense for emotionally abandoned children. The existential unattainability of perfection saves the child from giving up, unless or until, scant success forces him to retreat into the depression of a dissociative disorder, or launches him hyperactively into an incipient conduct disorder. Perfectionism also provides a sense of meaning and direction for the powerless and unsupported child. In the guise of self-control, striving to be perfect offers a simulacrum of a sense of control. Self-control is also safer to pursue because abandoning parents typically reserve their severest punishment for children who are vocal about their negligence.

As the quest for perfection fails over and over, and as sustaining attachment remains elusive, imperfection becomes synonymous with shame and fear. Perceived imperfection triggers fear of abandonment, which triggers self-hate for imperfection, which expands abandonment into self-abandonment, which amps fear up even further, which in turn intensifies self-disgust... .on and on it goes in a downward spiral of fear and shame encrusted abandonment. It can go on for hours and days…weeks in environmentally exacerbating conditions…and for those with severe PTSD, can become their standard mode of being.

[Panda39]

L2T,

Wow, powerful stuff by Pete Walker (gonna have to add him to my already ridiculously tall pile of reading).  I'm a feeler and can't always articulate the "feelings", it's really great when someone can like this.

Let go of Perfectionism!

Yes, I agree that "Perfectionism" fits better it roles a lot of different things up into one ball... .My over the top sense of responsibility, my SO's D17 people pleasing, my SO's D21 parentification/bossiness/controlling, and everything you mentioned earlier in your post... .over achieving, rule following (you got me here too!), well behaved etc... .I would also add black and white thinking in here too.  Part of my perfectionism was always having to be "right".

The interesting thing here is this pursuit of perfection is exactly what my mother has spent her life doing and that legacy has been passed on to me.  I also know that my great-grandmother (a social climber) did this to my grandmother and my grandmother (a minister) did the same to my mother.  It's a generational pattern passed mother to daughter    There is also a pattern of treating daughters "less than" sons... .this could be a combo of learned and societal behavior.  I hope I've broken that one... .I have an only child (son)   

Panda39