Struggling in My Marriage

[StandingAlone]

Hello,

I’m new here.  I’m not sure what to do anymore.  I’ve been married for almost 17 years to a man who is the adult child of a narcissistic mother.  We have argued about his mother many times over the years and have gone to couples counseling many times.  Recently, I’ve gone to counseling by myself just to have my feelings and thoughts validated as I was being gaslighted not only by my mil but my husband as well over the years and I could feel that I was losing myself.  After 4-6 weekly sessions individually, my therapist told me that I’m not the one who should be in counseling which I already knew in my heart.  So we started couples counseling again with my counselor and I feel like she’s not really addressing the problem which is that he needs individual therapy sessions.  I feel that if we don’t work on our own individual issues, how can we really work on our issues as a couple?  Do you all agree with that or do you think it’s worth to continue couples counseling without him doing individual counseling?  A little backstory:  my husband spiraled down into major depressive disorder and had suicidal ideation at one time after our children were born and he went to his mother for help with our children instead of talking to me.  He became distant from me and she caused a wedge between us hoping we would divorce.  This was 8 years ago.

[Kwamina]

Hi StandingAlone and welcome to bpdfamily

It can be very challenging dealing with BPD or NPD family-members. In this case, it is your MIL who you believe has narcissistic traits, unfortunately your husband's behavior has also been quite problematic at times.

Do you feel like your husband also believes that his mother has certain issues? Is your husband ok with his mother's behavior?

Dealing with all of this, can really take its toll on you so I'm glad you sought out help in the form of counseling.

A little backstory:  my husband spiraled down into major depressive disorder and had suicidal ideation at one time after our children were born and he went to his mother for help with our children instead of talking to me... .This was 8 years ago.

Even though this was 8 years ago, it is definitely quite significant. Did your husband get targeted professional help back then to help him with his major depressive disorder and suicidal ideation?

As far as you know, is suicidal ideation currently still an issue for your husband?

[StandingAlone]

Hi Kwamina,

Thank you so much for your reply and warm welcome.  It is indeed very challenging dealing with my MIL who I believe has narcissistic traits.

I am not quite sure if my husband also believes that his mother has certain issues.  He will not say anything negative about his mother.  It appears that he is fearful of her but he denies it.  He has witnessed her once suddenly out of nowhere yelling at me and blaming me for something I didn't do, but doesn't say anything to her for her bad behavior.  She will often confront me when no one is around to tell me how I should parent my children.

My husband did seek targeted professional help back then but only very briefly to get his medication changed.  He had already been on an antidepressant for many years for generalized anxiety disorder after he became sober.  He has never gone for psychotherapy, though.  He only attends weekly AA meetings.

As far as I know, I don't think suicidal ideation is still an issue for my husband.  However, he still often reacts with emotional dysregulation when we argue or have discussions about his mother, our marriage, or parenting that can take hours to days for him to be emotionally stable.  This has affected our children, especially our oldest son who is now a teen.  I've been taking our son to see a therapist for the past 6 months.

I think my husband needs to have psychotherapy to work out his unresolved issues from childhood but he refuses, says that we need couples counseling and that's it.  I honestly don't think that will help.

Thank you again.

[Turkish]

My couple's counselor also saw us individually.  I thought that this was typical.  Is the current counselor not willing to do that or is it your husband resisting? Or does the current counselor think your H needs someone else?

I'm sorry to hear about your son needing therapy but it's good that you have him doing it.  What are his struggles?

Not to excuse your husband, but separating and putting up boundaries with an overbearing and controlling parent is very difficult.  It would help to learn the communication tools on the Bettering Board as they can help reduce conflict. They can work on anybody,  BPD or not.

Tools for communication, validation, and reinforcement of good behavior

Validation can help with your teen as well.  I use it with my kids.  

[Learning2Thrive]

Welcome StandingAlone.  I’m so sorry for the stress and struggles you have been going through and are still going through.

Not to excuse your husband, but separating and putting up boundaries with an overbearing and controlling parent is very difficult.  It would help to learn the communication tools on the Bettering Board as they can help reduce conflict. They can work on anybody,  BPD or not.  

What Turkish says above and the link to communication tools is very good advice, especially if your H is in any way enmeshed with your MIL or even if he’s suffering from FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).

Sadly, even though we may recognize when others need more intense therapy it’s pretty impossible to make them do it. We can only help ourselves.

Hmmm... .I don’t know. If your husband is willing to continue couples counseling, it seems like that may keep the door open for something more in the future, possibly? Do you feel it is helping at all? Have you discussed his mother’s problematic behaviors and her interference in your marriage/family while in couples counseling?

[Learning2Thrive]

To understand why your husband doesn’t discuss the issues and behaviors you’ve noticed/experienced with his mother you might want to read this:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

[StandingAlone]

Hi Turkish,

We started couples counseling with the therapist after I saw her individually.  Then she saw us individually once before we resumed to couples counseling again.  When I asked her about the need for individual counseling, she said "ideally that would be good" and left it at that.  She didn't offer to see us individually any more.  Initially when I wanted her to see my husband individually, she said that it could get rather tricky and was hesitant about it.  She said that we need to be open and transparent if we do that so I've shared very openly about my sessions with him but he hasn't shared much about his one session. 

Our son struggles with low self-esteem, anxiety, and depression.  He also had suicidal ideation.  I've learned through his therapy sessions about the importance of validating his feelings as you mentioned.  He was fearful that my husband and I were going to get divorced and that he was going to have to choose sides.

Thank you, I will check out the Bettering Board for communication tools.  I do understand how difficult it is to separate and establish boundaries with an overbearing and controlling parent.  I have done it with my own mother who my husband pointed out had some narcissistic traits after she came to help us with our children when they were born.  Distant contact with her has been good for our relationship.

[StandingAlone]

Hi Learning2Thrive,

When I went to therapy alone initially, the therapist said that it sounds like there is so much enmeshment in his relationship with his mother.  I believe it.  She says H also has developed enmeshment with our eldest son, that it's a pattern passed down from his mother.  And I see that now.  I've read about FOG and tried sharing that with him but he dismisses everything I say.

I absolutely agree that we cannot make anyone get therapy if they themselves do not see that they need it.  I've learned from my own therapy is that I need to let go and just focus on myself and keeping myself well for my children. 

We have not discussed his mother's problematic behaviors because he perceives her behaviors as that she cares.  The therapist says that we should work on our connection with each other in our marriage first and leave the topic of his mother for last because she is a a big issue.  I just don't see how we can connect when he defends her all the time.

[StandingAlone]

Oh, I have read some of Toxic Parents, Toxic In-Laws, and Emotional Blackmail which I bought last year.  I even scheduled one couples therapy session with Dr. Forward over the phone and it was so refreshing to have a therapist who isn't afraid to call it out as it is.  It was also enlightening to know that what I was actually feeling was betrayal, which she pointed out. 

Thank you for that link about emotional blackmail and FOG, Learning2Thrive.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi StandingAlone,

I also want to welcome you to our family. It sure sounds as if you are having a tough time, and I'm glad you shared your story with us.

You have the issue of your MIL as well as the struggle with your DH (dear husband). That's a lot to handle for anyone. It sounds as if he doesn't really consider the possibility that his mom may be the cause of some of his depression if I'm hearing you right.

I'm glad that you are in T for yourself. It can be awfully lonely though in a marriage such as what you've described. I understand because my DH sounds very much like yours. What things are you able to do to strengthen and care for yourself? I reach out for support from my friends to help get my emotional needs met in healthy ways.

 
Wools

[StandingAlone]

Hi Woolspinner2000,

Thank you for the warm welcome!  I am so grateful to be here!

I believe you are right that my DH doesn't really consider the possibility that his mom may be the cause of some of his depression.  I have often wondered if he's in denial or just doesn't want to blame her for anything since his dad left them when he was young and she did the best she could.  But I've seen how she also plays on his emotions, often telling him about her poor health and how much she is aging. 

I agree, it can be awfully lonely in such a marriage as mine.  I'm sorry you may be going through a similar situation with your DH.  Glad you're able to get your emotional needs met from supportive friends.  I reach out for support from my friends as well and from one sister.  I get my strength through daily prayers too.

[Harri]

Hi Standingalone.  How are you?  It has been a few days and I have wondered.

Were you able to read through any of the links we offered to you?  I am curious what you thought.

Take care.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi again StandingAlone,

It's good that you have understanding about your m-in-l even if your DH doesn't yet. Like most of us adult children survivors of a pwBPD, we struggle to break free of the dysfunction, and it is easier to stay there and not upset the boat. Do you think that is part of what may be going on with him? Does he have any siblings? If so, how do they get along with mom?

Looking forward to hearing from you again. 

Wools

[Enabler]

Oh, I have read some of Toxic Parents

Did you read the section in Toxic Parents where it discusses how family unit to protect the dysfunction. They may all individually see a parents dysfunctional or downright immoral behavior but when it's pointed out by anyone the family units to protect and deny there's an issue. I have witnessed this first hand where my MIL is a shocking cause of chaos and abuse in my W family and my FIL has avoided any confrontation of the glaring issues. My W and SIL both have serious personality issues but can both see the source of the problem... .yet any suggestion of MIL being an issue is met with fierce defense. My W even approached MIL in 2007 to tell her about the abuse met with the response of "I have no idea what you're talking about" from MIL and FIL. Yet she denies this is any source of her problems.

It's tough to admit and genuinely believe that the person whom is supposed to love you unconditionally is actually an abuser.

[StandingAlone]

Hi Harri,

Thank you so much for checking up on me.  I did get a chance to read through some of the links recommended to me and others on the website that were very informative.  I wish I had found this forum years ago! 

Sorry, I haven't been on since my last post.  Things got awkward around here after I decided not to continue couples counseling with my DH.  He was very upset but finally agreed to seeing our therapist alone.  As it turned out, she has decided to leave her private practice and work elsewhere.  She has referred him to another therapist.

[StandingAlone]

Hello again Wools,

I do think DH is finding that it's easier not to rock the boat and to keep the status quo.  DH does have one younger sister and one younger half sister (from another mother).  His sister is very close to their mother.  She is the flying monkey.  They live close to each other out of state.  Lots of triangulation happens too.  Although his sister is married, she will get involved and try to convince him that I am trying to hurt their mother and keep our children away from them.  I didn't realize I was the scapegoat until last year. 

[StandingAlone]

Hi Enabler,

Yes!  I read that in Toxic Parents.  I do see it so clearly how DH, MIL, and SIL all uphold the dysfunction to protect the family unit.  Everyone else, including myself, is considered an outsider.  Both DH and SIL keep MIL on a pedestal and give her whatever she wants as she plays the victim role very well.  They both witnessed her verbally attacking me out of nowhere and blaming me for something I didn't do.  DH said nothing to her but apologized to me and took blame (it was actually his fault but she blamed me) while SIL said, "oh sh**!" and quickly ran out of the room.  Then they all went about their day like nothing happened.  And every time I try to discuss that incident or any incident involving my MIL with DH, he gets very defensive, makes excuses for her, and shuts down so we never resolve any issues.

I'm sorry you've had to go through similar situations too.

It's tough to admit and genuinely believe that the person whom is supposed to love you unconditionally is actually an abuser.

^^^ So true!