Red flags you saw at the beginning, and are responsible for overlooking

[juju2]

Hi family,

Am processing everything.   Wanted to share the red flags i saw, chose to overlook, and provide all who want to, to share and grow.

So in 2007, we met, talked on the phone, emailed.
The first thing he said that was red flag:
Am glad you dont belong to x.x., because when we break up, i wont have to worry about seeing you again.  (I thought that was a witty thing to say, that is how mixed up i was)
Then, one week into seeing one another,
"I am still in love with my ex wife"
Red flag #2.

What i thought, is wow, he is being vulnerable.
I said, you need to go to her, tell her.
Its ok.   I appreciate you sharing this... .
To which he said, no, it wont work, she is married, has two kids with this man.  (He had his only son, with her:her oldest child they gave to her parents to raise)  my s.o. gave his son up for legal adoption to her parents, w the promise he would stay out of the boy's life... .when i met my s.o., he and his son had just found eachother, son was living w my s.o.!  The son was twenty by then, very mixed up, looking back, i thing he has BPD or NPD.

How does sharing this help me.   I trust you all, i get it out, i take responsibility.   At any point, early on, i could,   could,   could have said, hope you have good luck with your journey, goodbye, am glad i met you!

By even the first date, we had chemistry (love bombing, am not sure!)
There was no way, looking back, was i ready after the 2nd week, to say goodbye.

Its ok.   I am ok.   I have those skills now, and i havent felt any love bombing w the two men i saw in the last 6 weeks.

Be strong,
j

[juju2]

Forgot 3rd red flag:
first time he called me, he said, am calling you, the person i was supposed to go out with today, stood me up.

At the time, i thought, what honesty.!  Looking back, i think it wasnt appropriate to say that to a new person, that you are the fallback.  It was an example of things he would say, that are inappropriate, hurtful.   He either had no clue, couldnt care, or ego driven.  All i know, i would not share that with a person i am about to meet for the first time... .Why do that.?  What is the intention.?

[MyBPD_friend]

Let me try to collect the red flags from her.

1. Met at 11 pm in a bar, starred at me deeply, love bombing followed within an hour.
2. She didn't want to let me go to leave
3. Wanted to come with to another place.
4.  She left her friend in the bar to come with me  
5.  At 4 am she started chatting and then kissing a younger guy, sitting on his legs
6. Drove her home at 6 am, while driving she started crying with tears for 15 minutes and didn't want to let me go. Instead she insisted that I stay at her and her bf flat
7.  She came to my room without words and stayed 10 minutes laying half over my bed
8.  Next week lovebombing text messages
9. 4 weeks later supposed to meet for dinner -she cancelley the last hour after I drove two hours
10.  Beginn of ST
11. it went on for 12 months with low contact,  no contact and silent treatment.

I gave up a year after we met

[Insom]

Hi, juju2 and MyBPD_friend!

Good job noting some of the red flags you experienced.  There were a lot in my relationship, too, alhough I didn't understand them as red flags at the time.  My ex just seemed . . . interesting.  Unusual.  And that made me curious. 

How does sharing this help me.   I trust you all, i get it out, i take responsibility.   At any point, early on, i could,   could,   could have said, hope you have good luck with your journey, goodbye, am glad i met you!

You're right, you could have said goodbye any time but decided to keep going instead.  You must have had a reason.  Have you thought about what it was?  What about this relationship appealed enough to you to render the red flags not worth paying attention to? 

[ILuvABorderline]

Can someone clarify what "love bombing" means?

[gilac]

telling me that she thinks she is bipolar, making other guys jealous with me, hitting herself, getting very upset whenever I turn on the other side of the bed when we sleep, crying every single day over nothing, talking about her exes almost every day, seeing her professor during consultations and "talking with him about my parents and you", ditching all her friends except one, getting over excited and planning for months to meet a certain person, telling me that I don't need to talk to anyone except her, getting irrationally jealous and doubting my fidelity whenever I go somewhere alone, admitting to me that she was cutting herself, mentioning personality disorder several times and BPD once, talking about disorders in general very often, having suicidal thoughts during happy events... .

the list is endless, sometimes whenever I remember something she did or something she told me I wonder how didn't I question myself, but I filtered most of the things because she was much younger than me and I knew that she had problems with depression, but never seen and never knowing that she suffered from something much more than that

[Cat Familiar]

Can someone clarify what "love bombing" means?

Coming on too strong at the beginning. Inappropriate behavior at the outset of the relationship, such as telling you "you're the one" or that "we should get married." Calling or texting too frequently. Giving too many gifts or love notes. Being overly expressive with praise and admiration when you're just getting to know one another.

[Caco Canepa]

My relationship with my uBPDw started out as a long friendship — almost four years, during which I saw her go through a handful of relationships. We had a mutual attraction that we didn't act on until we were both single at the same time. Here's the red flags I should have seen:

  Her last relationship before me (cohabitating) ended when, after a day-long drunken argument, the guy went to their back yard, put a gun in his mouth, and threatened to kill himself. He was arrested on weapons and domestic violence charges, she testified against him, he lost his job, and she piled all his belongings on the front lawn. I felt badly for her at this time.

  After a year or so of love-bombing (great travels! Great sex! Love love love!) she began expressing angry jealousy over my relationships with other friends and bandmates, to the point where I started cancelling plans with friends in order to satisfy her and quell her anxieties.

  Two days after I gave her an engagement ring I'd had custom-made for her, she told me she didn't like it and was disappointed that I hadn't consulted with her to create something she'd like. She picked out one three times as expensive, and became angry and abusive until I bought it for her.

And then more and more red flags... .

[juju2]

After the love bombing, it seemed like went right into devaluation, demoralization, hateful behabmviour.   I just kept thinking, it would be so nice if he just LIKED me!

[WindofChange]

  -- love bombing in the beginning, seemed a bit intense, but I found that exciting, filled a gap in me, I suppose.
-- Got crazy jealous at a bar with a bunch of friends because another man was dancing close to me (behind me, not touching) -- I didn't even see the guy!
  -- Said he had told estranged wife about me -- later found out he lied.
  -- Standing by our cars during an argument, and he turned and smacked his head into his car roof and dented it in.
  -- Extreme moodiness, problems keeping jobs, falling into depression, driving around while on a sedative, suicide threats.
  -- Lies, rages, silent treatment, punishing behaviors.
 
The bulk of the lies I only discovered during the last year of the relationship when I was already hooked. But the other stuff occurred during the first two years. I chose to overlook them because I was crazy about him and the sex and intimate connection was so great. A big part of it was because he had told me about his abusive childhood and other trauma in his life, and I was willing to make excuses for the bad behavior and thought that he would get better over time if I just kept loving and supporting him. I kept thinking I could help him if I loved him, supported him, and prayed enough, and stuck it out, eventually, he would be healed and whole. The whole FOG thing -- I have issues with guilt, that's a part of why I stayed, also. He knew that and used it to his advantage, of course.

[raiano18]

The first thing he said that was red flag:
Am glad you dont belong to x.x., because when we break up, i wont have to worry about seeing you again.  (I thought that was a witty thing to say, that is how mixed up i was)
Its ok.   I am ok.   I have those skills now, and i havent felt any love bombing w the two men i saw in the last 6 weeks.

My fiancé used to always say this. One thing I recall is "Im gonna record you snoring so I can watch it and laugh when we break up"

[zachira]

Big Red Flag: bad boundaries from the moment of meeting the potential partner. The potential partner who is BPD discloses what seem like the most intimate deals of his/her life which creates a false sense of intimacy. The non BPD than discloses real intimate deals of their life because he/she feels like he/she has met his/her soulmate. The couple becomes sexually intimate before they really know each other. The sex is passionate and unreal, yet the emotional discomfort and lack of trust surfaces pretty quickly, and never goes away once it surfaces.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Here are the red flags from when my ex and I were dating/first married:

* Proposed after only 3 months of dating
* Acted intensely jealous when his lifelong friends would casually talk with me: didn't want me sitting next to them, accused me of liking them more than him, etc.
* Said he was still in love with his ex-fiance
* Made inappropriate comments about me in front of my boss. When I kicked him under the table, he asked out loud why I kicked him.
* When I was being treated for depression, he complained about the cost ($10/month) when I was on anti-depressants. I had told him I was starting to feel better emotionally and he brought up the cost. He was not supportive or encouraging.
* When I was sick, he would complain that I was "always" sick. I didn't get sick all that often actually.
* He flirted with waitresses in front of me. Even his friends told him it wasn't cool.
* He blatantly commented on attractive women in front of me, such as "damn! she's hot!" When I told him I didn't appreciate these comments about other women when I was around, he'd complain that I was too sensitive.
* Told me in passing that he'd sleep with one of my friends in a heart beat. At the time I thought he was kidding. It turns out he wasn't. During our marriage he was caught putting up a singles ad on a dating site and admitted to trying to have affairs here and there. I have no idea when that part all started. We had been together for almost twenty years. I found out about some of it after we divorced.

These are just a few off the top of my head.

[Starfire]

I'll go a different direction here and call out some red flags that I didn't know were red flags.  There were lots that I saw and ignored, but these are things I didn't recognize as red flags at all.  My therapist later informed me these should have given me pause.

1.  Lack of physical self care.  Things like not having annual physicals or dental appointments, ignoring obvious signs of ill health, resisting visiting a doctor or clinic even when injured.  Some of that was related to him hiding addictions and prior diagnosis that he didn't want to admit to, but also it was related to his deep shame over how he lived his life.  Being told that he had any kind of flaw was devastating to him, like hey your blood pressure is high stop eating so much salt - that would have sent him spiraling.

2. Acting extremely shy.  I'm not talking about run of the mill shyness.  I'm talking about what could be considered emotional stunted.  At the time I thought it was being shy.  It was way deeper and way more disturbing than that.

3. Prone to accidents.  He was always getting injured or hurt in weird ways and had a long story about it.  I learned later that most of those injuries were faked.

[toomanydogs]

ahhh
red flags:

asked me to marry him before i even met him face-to-face.
sent me 45 emails when i was asleep
broke computers
broke tv sets
revealed details of his childhood before i knew him (later found out the details were lies)
sent me an email in the middle of the night: HEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPP. I'M GOING TO THE HOSPITAL. WHERE ARE YOU? HEEEEEELLLLLLPPPP. When I read the email in the morning, i called him asked what had happened. he "didn't remember" sending the email.
couldn't make up his mind. at all. couldn't make up his mind so that everything, from planning a trip to ordering dinner, became unbearably chaotic.
tore off his clothes, said they made him claustrophobic

that's enough.

TMD

[WindofChange]

TMD, wow! the 45 emails, breaking things, the crazy "Help!" email. (Is this awful? I laughed in amazement.) That would definitely be crazy-making! My ex wasn't invited to my surprise birthday party last year because my family and friends didn't like him. I understood he was hurt--but he called me 37 times (phone was in my purse and party was loud), and blew up my phone with accusing texts. Someone posted a pic of me with friends on social media and walking behind me was a male server--he questioned me about who the guy was and was I with him?

I Am The Fire, ugh, those things had to do such a number on your self-esteem. How did you deal with it? I can relate to the waitress thing. My ex would do that and then when I said it bothered me, would say I was trying to change who he was. (So, who you are is a flirt who disrespects his fiancé?) But he was, of course, ridiculously jealous and suspicious about me even going to breakfast with my girlfriends. Projection, maybe.

Big Red Flag: bad boundaries from the moment of meeting the potential partner. The potential partner who is BPD discloses what seem like the most intimate deals of his/her life which creates a false sense of intimacy. The non BPD than discloses real intimate deals of their life because he/she feels like he/she has met his/her soulmate. The couple becomes sexually intimate before they really know each other. The sex is passionate and unreal, yet the emotional discomfort and lack of trust surfaces pretty quickly, and never goes away once it surfaces.

Zachira, that is definitely what happened with me. My ex shared with me during our first conversation that he'd suffered a terrible personal loss in his life a few years before, and also told me he'd been abused as a child. I felt tremendous sympathy for him and I let my guard down. He came across as so very open and vulnerable, it wore down my defenses. Told me he loved me within a couple of months. I didn't say it back then but it wasn't much later after that. I felt we were soul mates. Amazing intimate physical connection, and I thought our emotional connection was the same. It's been kind of disconcerting to realize this is a common bond that happens with pwBPD and codependents, and to read the analysis of it. But it has been enlightening.

[Lostinthedesert]

Those behaviors were exactly the same my ex demonstrated early in... .she was so shy and vulnerable.  Told me about her abusive ex, then her childhood abuse and it all tugged on my compassion and wanting to help.  Only two months in after we became intimate she somehow got assaulted from someone she knew from work. Then the whole ___storm of other stalkers and harrasers started I was totally caught being her only support.  What a nightmare and it took me nearly three years to finally ask myself why she attracted all this violence toward herself.  Guess the big lesson is to realize people with that much damage are simoly not a goid choice in a partner if you want a healthy relationship.  And I sure need to ask myself why I was willing to overlook all those red flags.

[WindofChange]

Lostinthedesert, I was just wondering, is it at all possible that she lied about or exaggerated some of the harassment or assaults she experienced after she met you? Or could she have interpreted statements or situations as more sinister than they actually were because of her traumatic past? I ask because I know my ex lied about so many things, some were just ridiculous. I believe he is a pathological liar. When I confronted him on some things (lying about having dinner/going to a bar with other women), he said, "Well, it's a shame I felt like I had to lie (to avoid conflict, he said)."
I definitely get what you're saying about them not being a good choice for a healthy relationship.

I definitely need to search further within myself for why I ignored the red flags, too. Why was I so compelled to stay and help and feel convinced I could "save" him? Why did I stay when he became emotionally abusive? (Never physical in my case, although he did raise his hand to me to shut me up--and he's a big man, so it did scare me.) If it were my friend going through that, I'd have advised her to get the heck out, walk away and don't look back. I guess often we're so willing to excuse the behavior because we know they've been traumatized, and just feel if we try hard enough and are patient and loving enough, they'll get better. I know that's how it was for me.

[Lostinthedesert]

Sadly i saw her after two assaults so the evidence was clear.  It seems worse to me thst this all kept happening than if she had lied.  However i dont know snymore what she may have lied about.  Yes this troubling experience has brought up all sorts of difficult memories snd emotions for me.  Like i have been laid open and have no protection.  I just have to be coursgeous enough to take a hsrd look at myself now.

[WindofChange]

Lostinthedesert, I know that's horrible to feel so raw and vulnerable. I'm so sorry you're going through that. Just be patient with and good to yourself. You deserve that. Thankfully, this site exists for us to vent to, interact with, and learn from others. Hang in there, it will get better. 

[mama-wolf]

At first, I struggled to think of the red flags.  It seemed like there weren't many... .We took it slow at first, only hanging out as friends for several months before we actually started dating.  Even once we got together, we waited over a year to move in together.  We were both very conscious about not falling into the lesbian "U-haul syndrome"  (for those who don't know the joke, it's:  What does a lesbian bring on her second date?  A U-haul).  We married after a couple years of living together, waiting for her to get through most of law school.

But as I think through the relationship itself, these are the red flags that have come to mind... .

• We had an argument early on about me spending time with a close friend of mine.  She felt that friend was too needy (she really wasn't) and took away too much time that we could be spending together as a couple (just us).  This was a precursor to the isolation that I started going through in more recent years... .pulling me further and further away from any kind of social network
• She pressured me heavily a year or so into the relationship to formally list out debts that I was handling informally with my mom, because she didn't like any potential financial ties that I might have with her.  This was just the beginning of her trying to drive a wedge between me and my mom because she generally felt threatened by my relationship with her.
• With increasing frequency, anytime I expressed an opinion that was different from hers, it was treated as a criticism of her thought process (which hurt her feelings) and was turned into some challenge to change my mind and turn me to her way of thinking
• When she was let go from a job not long after D9 was born, she re-characterized it as being a toxic work environment, and vilified the managing partners.  She did the same thing at another job she lost a few years later... .and again most recently when she left her job at the beginning of this year.

So in a 15-year relationship, I'd say those might qualify as "at the beginning"... .and the rest just really accelerated from there:

• After S5 was born, the devaluation really started setting in, and she talked to me/treated me more and more like she hated me.  One night in the middle of it happening yet again, I finally broke down and screamed "I can't do this anymore!"  I was only referring to how she was treating me, but she told me later that she was scared to death that I meant I wanted to leave.  I realize now that this is what prompted a recycle that lasted at least a few months before she started sliding back into the same behaviors
• When my mom was diagnosed with a very aggressive lymphoma four years ago and started an equally aggressive and physically devastating chemo treatment program, uBPDw would frequently ask if my mom "really needed [me] to go visit her" and "isn't that something your sister can do?"... .Her perception of my relationship with my mom started to deteriorate even more quickly since that time
• Increasing difficulty for uBPDw with impulsiveness and inability to reduce spending and stick to a financial plan
• An increasing incidence of health issues  for uBPDw since S5 was born, accelerating in the last three years

There are others, but I don't know that they would necessarily qualify as red flags indicative of BPD... .probably just signs of an unhealthy relationship in general.  I overlooked and accommodated so much over the years... .rolled over and avoided confrontation, allowed my opinions to be subjugated, endured criticism after criticism.  I know that has to do with codependency and some of my own issues that I'm working on with my T.

I think it only actually hit me that something was really wrong--or maybe it was just that I finally sensed the real pending danger to my self and my kids--when she yelled in my face in front of our children at the State Fair last Fall.  There had been other rages and arguments, but for her behavior to deteriorate to that level, in public, in front of our children... .I finally, finally realized there was a problem.  But I didn't know what to do.

It was within about a month of that event that she tried to show me some article about the "mother wound"... .trying to convince me that my mother was so emotionally absent in my childhood that it damaged me in such a way that I feel too much obligation towards her.  She wanted to "help" me overcome it, further driving me away from other sources of support and pulling me in more towards her.  At that point, I had also started struggling with serious caregiver burnout, and I finally knew I needed to find a therapist of my own.

I still can't quite grasp (or accept?) the damage that has been done already through all of this, but I really can't imagine the additional damage that would have been done if I hadn't finally walked into that therapists office.

mw

[PianoDood]

  - after initially meeting me in Toledo and talking on the phone for weeks, long distance, she flew to spend the weekend with me in Chicago.  Love bombing and intimacy was very intense.  I now see that I was very succeptable to this because of several factors... .my FOO as well as a prior marriage where I felt like an unimportant accessory to my spouse's life and agenda, which now I see was also acceptable because of what I experienced in my FOO.  Because I have rescuer tendencies and she being a damsel in distress waif coming out of an abusive relationship she incessantly talked about, the love bombing filled gaps in myself.  The red flag occurred when, immediately after meeting me in Chicago, she disappeared for nearly 2 months.  I was devastated.  Then, out of the blue, she emailed me saying, "I can't believe you would just walk away from what we have", when she had been the one who disappeared.

  - shortly after reuniting with her after her disappearance, she asked me to try to fix something on her messenger app.  While logged on (she had given me her password), a man messaged me, believing I was her and asked if she was still up for going to a party with him that weekend. She minimized this and told me it was harmless.

  - countless times, she would simply disappear without warning with no communication for days, then love bomb.  Push/pull was a constant theme. 

  - she would do and say things that were inappropriate to say to a SO for the purpose of keeping me off balance and make me jealous, playing on my own fear of abandonment.

Too many other  to even list.  But, as she continued to trample my boundaries and I allowed it, it transitioned to an emotionally abusive relationship and trauma bond.