After a lull, very near to breaking point PART 2

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

When is the last time you said no to your wife taking your child somewhere?

When is the last time she has said no to you?

There is a really bad dynamic here... .that needs to change, regardless of outcome of your marriage.

FF

[formflier]

When is the last time you said no to your wife taking your child somewhere?

When is the last time she has said no to you?

There is a really bad dynamic here... .that needs to change, regardless of outcome of your marriage.

FF

[Dragon72]

I can't think of an occasion where I have said no to her taking him somewhere.
I think that maybe she has objected to me taking him somewhere but suggested a different activity for all three of us that I have agreed to.
Most of the times when I have taken him somewhere in the past, I have invited her along too ("Jr. and I are going to the park. Wanna come too?", for example.  More often than not she has chosen not to join us.  Usually bitching about how the housework won't do itself and how hard she has to work, boo hoo.

But since this latest episode, I don't think that she would agree to me taking him somewhere on my own. She came along to the park with us yesterday morning. 
And when I raised the issue of her taking him for two days away without consulting me, she skillfully turned it around on me, implying that I would be denying our son fun with his cousins if I objected.  I mean, how could I say, "No, I want him to come back, because you didn't consult with me first."  It's a bit churlish.  She's clever at getting what she wants - she even created a situation where I would be excluded too.  Very clever.  She's a much better chess player than me.

[Dragon72]

The thing is, what should I do if... .
I say I want to take our son for a father/son day out and she says no?
she says she wants to take him away again and I say no and she says just watch me?
I can envisage both scenarios.  I can't think of an appropriate and effective consequence to her actions.

[formflier]

The thing is, what should I do if... .
I say I want to take our son for a father/son day out and she says no?
she says she wants to take him away again and I say no and she says just watch me?
I can envisage both scenarios.  I can't think of an appropriate and effective consequence to her actions.

What would she do if you say no? 

That's your answer.

If you are not going to do things by mutual agreement... then do things according to you values... .and do them consistently.

Here is the thing... .before you do this... .you need to think it through and be consistent.

Turn this on yourself (I'm not blaming you... but you are responsible... .100%... for how you "train" her).  Do you see the nuance here.

You have trained her for years to be a certain way... .if you change things... and then cave... .it is worse than sticking with what you have got.

Done properly... .what has she done with boundaries before? 

I'm going to say this another way Dragon... .here is my my concern.  For a couple big issues... BIG!

I'm "fearful" that if you don't thoughtful change this toxic dynamic about money and your child... .that you will "snap" and do something reactive... that sets you WAY back... .or torpedos your own cause.

You obviously aren't ok with it... .resent it... .and that builds up.

The key is NOT to learn to to "take it"  and not get upset (although that is part of it... .not taking it personally).  There is another part to take action... .to protect your values.  And to do that thoughtfully... vice reactively.

There is not a "sprint" to get this done... .it's not a rush... .but it will be harder to "start" this in 6 months... or a year.

Can you think about this... .?  Can you kinda "reflect back to me" in your own words my fear? 

How worried should you and all of us be about your "reactivity"?

FF

[Dragon72]

Sincerely, ff, I don't understand what you are trying to say.  It's all too fuzzy and cryptic for me.

I think I was looking to get some advice on how to set and enforce boundaries and what I think you're saying is, ":)ude, you've got to set some boundaries, before you go and do something stupid when she urinates all over your boundaries.  Because she's done nothing but urinate all over your non-existent boundaries". Yeah, I get it.  I haven't set and enforced boundaries with her regarding money and her sleeping arrangements.  I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT!  THAT'S THE POINT!

OK, so once again. She wants to take my kid away. I say no.  She says "watch me".  I say, "You do that and I'll... ."

[formflier]

You pretty much got it.  I'm not trying to inflame you... .can be hard to tell over text only.

OK, so once again. She wants to take my kid away. I say no.  She says "watch me".  I say, "You do that and I'll... ."

You don't start here... .

Connecting the dots... .this is why consistently having and enforcing more minor boundaries and things you control more... or entirely is critical.

Think about it this way... .if you don't enforce about something minor... .and you don't enforce about something "middle ground", yet you decide to enforce about your child (which is a big deal)... .you can understand how that would be confusing to her... right?

If you are consistent across the spectrum... .she will understand your boundaries will be enforced.

Right now she understands you don't enforce boundaries.

Please don't take this as criticism... but clarity of big picture.  

I sucked a$$ at boundaries when I got here.

Pick something (like money) that you control... .enforce your boundaries, that are tied to your values.

Do that consistently.  

What are some other more minor things you can consistently enforce?

FF

[braveSun]

Dragon72, I hear you about not knowing how to enforce your boundaries.    

Sure a thing is this, we discover the need to start doing boundaries in the midst of some action that has gone too far.

You are at the right place on these boards. People will help you here.

I read on this thread and I was a teacher before, so I am sensitive to many of the concerns people voiced for your situation. The topic is a difficult one to process for most people. It evokes high emotional responses. Fears.

First thing I would look into is:

a) How is the climate now? How can you get working on the overall climate at home?
I am asking this because, while I would definitely prepare myself with your lawyer friend, I think that like you described when you said things pretty much felt like walking on eggshells, there must be high tensions in your home right now.
 
A big part of the skills you will need in learning to develop good, sensible boundaries will depend on your own personal basic emotional balance. You will need to be patient with yourself and others. And to know where you are going.

Considering all that has happened on the home front for you lately, how would you describe you own emotional self? I mean. Do you feel on alert a lot? Lots of emotions? Or feeling numb? Do you get proper sleep? Eat healthy foods? These sort of things can affect the overall on board decisions and can color the overall points of view we get as we go along.

Say if you are not feeling well right now, say just for the body-mind connection, what would you think 3 new, different, self-care activities you could incorporate in your everyday starting now?
Doesn't have to be big, nor involving a lot of money.

I know this may sound trivial. But at first, you could start to implement some boundaries around this. Your own self care. Be honest that doing anything that could hinder your credibility down the road not impact your judgement whilst you chose whatever path you chose.

b) Like FF says, than you go for the minor, than later medium type of boundaries. Once you have a sense of knowing how to find that calm-in-the-storm center for yourself, chances are that this in turn will affect the level of reactivity in your home. Only than would I start to implement some changes that would affect her. And very very very gradually.

I agree with WW that there is time, but it's important to start now. I would say there is not enough time to wait for this to turn back to normal. This is more like a life change you might be experiencing than just a one battle.

 

What do you think?

Brave


This thread has been locked due to length and is continued here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327715.0;all