Becoming ever likely day by day

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi,

I've been around other sections of this message board for awhile now but I'm running out of options and it's becoming ever likely that I will end up in family court with my ex based off the way things are shaping up. I was hoping to gain some practical advice on the legal side of things. My ex was claiming welfare off the government and recently had that taken away because she wasn't entitled to it due to the minimum care she had and was happy to have until now and actually ow's them alot of money now. After this event she went about begging for more time with the kids (it's all but 50/50 care) I get 4 nights she gets 4 days within a week if she had more care she would dump the kids in the care of other people anyway so I refused to give more time. She also begged me to lie to the government about her care of the kids so she could get the payments back. Recently she was withholding her child so she could regain these payments the only way I could get her to let both kids share the same care arrangement was to agree to lie for her to get these payments. I don't feel comfortable with this at all because I believe she could then use this to get more than 50% care of both children if she wanted to. I have these conversations with my ex in writing. I'm not fighting for more care from her but she seems to want to take more care from me. She doesn't spend much time with the kids during her time and her answer to that if to take more time from me instead of being a mother in her own time. As usual I can't have a rational conversation with this women as she takes not accountability or responsibility for her actions ans can't see things from anybody else's perspective.

I've learnt alot of skills hear but none have had lasting success due to her refusal to acknowledge her condition. We've been seperated for almost 12 months and still the fighting continues. She keeps claiming I'm trying to make things hard for her and stop her moving on because I won't lie for her.

[sladezy]

Hi,

I've been around other sections of this message board for awhile now but I'm running out of options and it's becoming ever likely that I will end up in family court with my ex based off the way things are shaping up. I was hoping to gain some practical advice on the legal side of things. My ex was claiming welfare off the government and recently had that taken away because she wasn't entitled to it due to the minimum care she had and was happy to have until now and actually ow's them alot of money now. After this event she went about begging for more time with the kids (it's all but 50/50 care) I get 4 nights she gets 4 days within a week if she had more care she would dump the kids in the care of other people anyway so I refused to give more time. She also begged me to lie to the government about her care of the kids so she could get the payments back. Recently she was withholding her child so she could regain these payments the only way I could get her to let both kids share the same care arrangement was to agree to lie for her to get these payments. I don't feel comfortable with this at all because I believe she could then use this to get more than 50% care of both children if she wanted to. I have these conversations with my ex in writing. I'm not fighting for more care from her but she seems to want to take more care from me. She doesn't spend much time with the kids during her time and her answer to that if to take more time from me instead of being a mother in her own time. As usual I can't have a rational conversation with this women as she takes not accountability or responsibility for her actions ans can't see things from anybody else's perspective.

I've learnt alot of skills hear but none have had lasting success due to her refusal to acknowledge her condition. We've been seperated for almost 12 months and still the fighting continues. She keeps claiming I'm trying to make things hard for her and stop her moving on because I won't lie for her.

[ForeverDad]

One hard lesson to learn is you can't succeed on the disordered ex's terms.  Period.  Negotiation?  The ex will never agree to something in your favor, or even fair.

Look at what has happened... .somehow you've exposed yourself to getting involved with ex's life, a major violation of a post-marriage boundary... .you life is your life, ex's life is ex's life.  Once you weaken that boundary, it's a slippery slope, when do you say "no more"?  Meanwhile she has managed to blur the lines between your parenting and hers, with her managing to gain control over you.

Can you undo your government agency involvement with her life?  You're no longer married, as an adult her problems are hers and hers alone.  You risk letting her drag you down.  Even if agencies are willing to accept obfuscations and stretching the truth, you need to examine your boundaries and stick to them.  Otherwise she will keep chipping nickels and dimes off your integrity and boundaries.

While you ponder that I'm sure others will chime in with their observations and suggestions.

[sladezy]

Hi foreverdad thanks for replying.

What did you mean by I can't succeed on the disordered ex terms?

There has been other gross negligence on her part resulting in injuries to the kids but over all she loves the kids and the kids love her. She just doesn't want to be a mother or a partner when it doesn't suit her.

[ForeverDad]

My ex was claiming welfare off the government and recently had that taken away because she wasn't entitled to it due to the minimum care she had and was happy to have until now and actually owes them a lot of money now. After this event she went about begging for more time with the kids (it's all but 50/50 care) I get 4 nights she gets 4 days within a week if she had more care she would dump the kids in the care of other people anyway so I refused to give more time. She also begged me to lie to the government about her care of the kids so she could get the payments back. Recently she was withholding her child so she could regain these payments the only way I could get her to let both kids share the same care arrangement was to agree to lie for her to get these payments.  She keeps claiming I'm trying to make things hard for her and stop her moving on because I won't lie for her.

Well, she got you to lie to the agencies, or was she trying and you did refuse?  The point is that you set your boundaries.  Her begging, pleading or even holding hostages shouldn't impact your boundaries.  She's writing the script.  You can't stop her from writing her script but you can decide whether you will follow it or not.

[sladezy]

I have no yet told the lie / signed any documents for her applications but she has tried to get me to. Which at that point I delayed it.

[takingandsending]

I wouldn't tell the lie.

However, do you have a signed parent plan/custody agreement? Maybe I am misunderstanding when you say "withholding her child". Are you talking in terms of taxes, or actually withholding your custody rights?

Certainly, changing a custody arrangement for strictly financial reasons is one of the lousiest reasons possible. Kids are not about what breaks we get financially for having them. I know there are people who do look at things that way, but wow, I don't think I could agree with that approach in life. If that's what your xw is proposing, and you don't agree, time for you to express those boundaries clearly and consistently. Easier said than done, but your own self values are so worth it, not to mention being better for your children to.

[sladezy]

Hi thanks for the reply

Yes I mean physically withholding the child from having time in my care just to get her parenting pention. I still haven't signed it and recently she's been threatening to withhold again because I'm not living up to my side of the agreement by signing.  we are at the start of the process for putting a parenting plan in place through mediation and I said I wasnt comfortable signing until that's done. I honestly think I might have to contact my governments welfare organisation and ask them what do I do. Not signing might put the kids at risk of suffering and signing is fraud and opens me up to a world of black mail.

I'm seriously considering bringing a lawyer into the equation at this point but I'd really rather see the money spent on the kids futures as I've told her before. She seems to think her problems are mine to solve still or that I am responsible for them.

[takingandsending]

Hi sladezy.

How long have you been in the 50%/50% custody schedule, and has it been a fairly regular/consistent schedule of when you have the children?

Courts tend to like consistency and maintaining precedent in best interest of the kids. And while it sounds like money is tight, I can only recommend that you reconsider getting an L. Expecting your xw to be fair and reasonable is not likely to work. And she is already proving that by violating your informal custody arrangement.

[ForeverDad]

Yes, they are experts at making us feel 'stuck", aren't they?  They've had years of practice, possibly their whole lives.  Shades of "Blame Shifting".  Probably more like Guilting.

[sladezy]

Yes our informal arrangement has been in place for 8 months. Well early on I actually had them longer them majority custody because she didn't want them and renegotiated to this agreement once she did. The issue that is worrying me is if she chooses to withhold her child then by the time it even gets looked at by the court it will be the new consistent schedule.

[ForeverDad]

The issue that is worrying me is if she chooses to withhold her child then by the time it even gets looked at by the court it will be the new consistent schedule.

I don't think that is a valid worry.  Your prior schedule and the current one were ones you both agreed too.  That's History.  If she unilaterally reduces your time again (without your consent) then when you do get to court you can say that her change is disputed and not a part of "history".  Well, as long as you don't delay overmuch and end up telling the court, "A year ago she reduced my time, I disagreed and so last month I filed... ."  If you do wait overlong to fix something contested then your long delay could be considered tacit agreement.

[sladezy]

She is now withholding her daughter with the intention to lodge her claim for payments from the government. This is splitting the children apart and going against our current unformal agreement.  While still trying to blackmail me to sign the one she wants me to sign saying she has full custody. What do I do here?  She initiated mediation which I'm attending but that's not good enough or quick enough for her and I fear she is blackmailing me because she is afraid of what will come out in mediation. The fraud, the threats, the fact she is only trying to change the agreement for money.
 

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Can you talk to a lawyer even with a free consultation? I think it will help tremendously if you know what your legal rights are here. It may sound really harsh, but to me it sounds almost like parental kidnapping in a way. Definitely blackmail and is not in the children's best interest. You have all of this in writing? That will help you down the road. In the meantime, I highly recommend getting legal consultation of some kind. If the divorce papers and parental agreements have been signed, I believe you would be able to call the police to enforce it, as awful as that seems. I asked my attorney about that in case my ex tried it. So far he hasn't. I'm crossing my fingers.

[sladezy]

I have all her blackmail / motive in writing.
The daughter she is withholding is not my biological daughter so I may have less rights in this situation but I have been in her life since she was 9 months old and she's now 4 I'm her only father as her bio dad isn't in the equation at all. Seem like I need to take that step down the legal Avenue now just to avoid being blackmailed. She split the kids apart and then is telling me she wants the kids together but can't unless she gets the payments. And on one occasion told me if it was up to her she wouldn't let me see her daughter at all anymore, then in the next breath again that she wants the kids together. So I don't know who she thinks it's up to.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I'm really glad you have it in writing. I'm not telling you what to do by any means. Personally, if it were me, I'd call the welfare organization and let them know what's going on probably after speaking with an attorney first. You definitely don't want to get blackmailed. I really feel for you and the kids.

[takingandsending]

The daughter she is withholding is not my biological daughter so I may have less rights in this situation but I have been in her life since she was 9 months old and she's now 4 I'm her only father as her bio dad isn't in the equation at all.

I think this is going to be a tough road for you. Others will chime in. I am afraid you may not have any rights for visitation unless you had adopted her as your daughter. But you should get all rights to your own child in writing, formalized. Regarding your D4, you may have to play the long game and hope that your ex gets tired of caring for her and agrees to sharing parenting time. If the kids are split, would you consider getting your other child into counseling to help cope with such a dramatic change? I am really hoping your ex changes her mind on this. She basically wants you to cede custody of your biological child, and is dangling keeping the kids together with your current 50/50 custody schedule as the bait. But once she has your sign off, whether it is for financial reasons or otherwise, she can move and take both kids, or deny you any visitation. There is no way I would agree to that, as there is no way that she sounds remotely stable enough to trust she won't simply change her mind on your informal custody agreement. Please do not sign anything before you talk to a L.

I am so sorry. This sounds really awful for you and you kids.  : (

[ForeverDad]

The daughter she is withholding is not my biological daughter so I may have less rights in this situation but I have been in her life since she was 9 months old and she's now 4 I'm her only father as her bio dad isn't in the equation at all.

There are some states that may give weight to your position as the only father the child has known.  I'm not sure how much.  Often though, it seems to be with the intent or overall goal to extract child support from the substitute father.

The others are correct, you need a consultation, usually inexpensive for an hour of their time, from an experienced family law attorney.  Even if you can't afford to pay the full retainer costs, the expert can (1) provide you with a list of practical strategies and approaches to follow in the meantime and (2) perhaps recommend other attorneys who will work with a sliding scale for fees.

[sladezy]

Hi all,

Thanks for the input, I've found my way to a local organisations that offers free legal advice and guidance on this matter and have made an enquiry. A lawyer should contact me in the next 3 to 5 days with some advice on how to proceed. My first mediation session is on in a week so hopefully something positive can come from that too. After having no contact with my ex for 2 days she sent a message saying she was sorry for the blackmail, that it was wrong and she wont force the issue anymore. When I asked her if that meant the kids were returning to the consistent shared care agreement. Which she said no she would continue to withhold her daughter as she has been. Not really sure why she would bother to apologise for blackmailing me other than to break no contact or to remove some of the guilt from herself.

[ForeverDad]

In nearly every case with an acting-out PD spouse, initial mediation attempts fail.  Well, they don't if you cave to every demand but hopefully you will limit your concessions to minor or somewhat reasonable terms.

I repeat, for most of us the initial mediation attempts failed.  Our ex-spouses were just too entitled and caught up in their control persona.  Later, usually just before a big hearing or trial when the ex realizes everything isn't going ex's way, maybe you can hammer out a settlement.  Maybe.  It's surprising how many times we do walk out with settlements but it's seldom at the beginning of a case.

However, there is value to try mediation.  Courts have mediation as one of the first steps in the divorce, so it is good to enter with the goal to try sincerely.  But don't Gift Away important custodial or parenting positions.  You ex, being so oppositionally disordered, will not reciprocate your generosity.  So do not expect reciprocity.  Yes, you'll be guilted as being so mean but decide what are the important issues and stick to them.  If/when mediation fails you just go back to court and state you tried but it failed.  I repeat, it is not disaster if mediation fails or fails in some issues.

Another reason to try mediation is that you'll get a sense of what claims or strategies your ex might use later in the divorce case.

[takingandsending]

I've found my way to a local organisations that offers free legal advice and guidance on this matter and have made an enquiry. A lawyer should contact me in the next 3 to 5 days with some advice on how to proceed.

I am glad that you are getting some outside legal advice re. custody on both your biological child and your daughter that you have cared for since a toddler. Understanding what rights you may have for access to your daughter is the first step. It sounds as if your ex is basing her decisions on her needs v. considering her children's needs - unfortunately common for parents with BPD. Hang in there, be patient, learn your rights and if it is in the benefit of your kids, assert them.

[sladezy]

Thanks everyone,

ForeverDAD it is mandatory in my country that parents first attempt mediation prior to filing for court proceedings regarding child custody as well so as such it is a requirement there is no divorce in our situation. To tell you the truth I don't like my luck in mediation atleast as far as getting what I believe is best for the children however having somebody else trying to presued both of us into making an agreement "might" help. I'm going to be very wary about making concessions against what I believe to be best for the children which can and will end up leading to court. Which I hope doesn't need to occur but am very much already preparing myself for. Given her only motives are money I'd say she wont be happy until she is getting money.

Takingandsending,

It did help knowing what to expect during mediation, what stance I can take and my rights regarding her daughter, as I'm am her psychological father being the only father that she knows. Unfortunately though the hard truth is that given our current verbal / informal agreement there is nothing / very little I can do about the situation right now or even during and after mediation if we can't agree on anything.

[ForeverDad]

So she's not going to challenge your father status?  Did you ever legally adopt her daughter or does your country recognize you as the father-of-record?

What I'm thinking is that if you end up not being considered as father then you don't have to pay child support (or get visits).  I know you don't want to split the girls, that's understandable and a credit to you but there's incentive on both sides to find a solution.  For her, an entitled solution. For you, an equitable but legal solution.

[sladezy]

She likely will challenge my father status. In the eyes of the child I am considered her psychological father and therefor it's in the childs best interests that I remain in her life (weather it's in my ex's best interest or not). I am not required to pay child support for her but am entitled to it from both biological parents if they are working (I currently don't collect this payment from either party). I am however required to pay her child support for the biological daughter we share which is the child support I would be referring to when mentioned. As far as getting my child into a psychologist to help deal with the split up she is only 2 years old so this is not very likely. 

This is a women who accused me of taking everything and leaving her with nothing because I wouldn't sign a fraudulent document. When I reminded her that she has numerous items I've paid for still in her possession and I have nothing of hers the reply was "yeah but you won't give me the parenting payment" (the ones she wasn't entitled to from the government that I'm not responsible for giving someone" so I don't really think any attacks are off the table at this point.

[sladezy]

Still waiting to get through the mediation process... .Looking like best case the final one where we sit down together won't be until the end of the month. I want this rubbish to be over now. Does it ever end? Will she get her hooks in somebody else and leave me alone eventually?