First post and don't know what to do

[Lostlawyer]

I'm just going to start by giving a little bit of background. I have been with my wife for 10 years now and she has never been formally diagnosed but most of the symptoms are there. I am 32 and she is 29.

About 5 years ago she became detached and ended up moving out of our home without really giving a reason. She accused me of never letting her have the college experience and she should be able to go out and sleep with anyone she wants because she didn't have the chance.

She had recently made friends with a girl who had walked out on her fiancee and was doing the single life. She ended up moving out and things were very hostile between the two of us. She took only her clothes and left all the rest of her possessions behind. I kept telling her to take them and she never did. She only ended up leaving for 3 months before she came home and asked for me to take her back because she loved me.

We were fine for 5 years and nothing really rocky happened. The symptoms were there but nothing major had happened. This past December her father past away. She was very close with her Dad. We have also been trying to have a kid for the past 14 months.

In June of this past year she started getting distant and began hanging out with a 22 year old grad student. She eventually started sleeping with him. She first told me that she felt numb as a result of her Dad dying and he was the only thing that made her feel something.

She then came home and accused me of not being emotionally supportive enough so it was my fault she had to find comfort in another. Finally another two weeks after that she told me she was unhappy in the marriage. She said she was happy with her life but I never made her happy and she had been faking her happiness for the last 5 years. She said she felt bad she never gave me kids and it was all her fault that I didn't have them.

I asked her if she wanted a divorce and she said she didn't know. She was set to start therapy a week later so I asked her to talk to her therapist before making any rash decisions. She ended up signing a lease the very next day. She currently is living way above her means in a place she can barely afford. She has no furniture. She made this decisions without talking to any of her friends or family. She has been avoiding everyone in her life. She has reached out to two or three friends and each one is given a different narrative of events.

She has been going out spending a lot of money, and spending a lot of times with her new friend group that are all students in their early 20s. She just recently picked up a new habit of smoking weed which she never did before.

Again she told me she would have everything out of the house, but she has taken only her clothes and a dresser. The house still currently has two whole rooms filled with her possessions. She has been out of the house for about a month and she tells people she is seeing the 22 year old but sees no future and he just "gives her what she needs now". My question is how do I proceed from here. I love my wife very much and I would be willing to reconcile if she continues therapy and works through it.

My question is mainly in regards to all of the stuff in my house. I can't have any kind of closure or have any kind of normal life when I have two rooms full of her possessions. The two times I have told her I would be out of town and she could remove items she has made no effort. How should I approach having her get her stuff but at the same time let her know that I have not given up on her?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated because I don't want her to feel abandoned but I can't have everything here and be trapped by it. Thank you.

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[pearlsw]

Hi Lostlawyer,



Sorry for all the pain and confusion you are dealing with here!

So, you are still legally married? Do you have any storage room at your place? Is her name on the lease of the place you are living in or do you own the home? (Do you both own it?)

It would help to have more details because you don't want to break the law/give yourself more headaches.

Yes, this is a tough problem to thread. You are in a bit of a limbo. You want her stuff out because she may not ever live there again, but you would want her to come back if she gets some help. Is that correct?

Do you have a plan for or any thoughts about when/if you'd initiate a divorce?

wishing you the best, pearl.

[Skip]

How should I approach having her get her stuff but at the same time let her know that I have not given up on her?

There is a legal question here and a relationship management questions.

Legal: She is considered to have abandoned the house after being out for 12 consecutive months. At that point you could dispose if the furniture.

In the interim, you certainly can move the furniture to a storage facility that is in both your names if you need the space.

Relationship Dynamics: Moving the furniture or demanding the move of the furniture communicates that you are done and moving on. The fact that she is living in a temporary state most likely means that she still thinks that she is planning to come back.

Stress is hard for a person with BPD traits. Losing her dad has obviously thrown her and she sounds like she is dysregulated.

If you push the furniture issue with her, you are pushing her away. If teje furniture is really bothering you, rent a POD and store it - just be sure to put her name of the lease.

It's 10 weeks. Are you guys talking? Is it tense?

[Lostlawyer]

Thank you for the responses. In regards to your questions;yes we are still legally married, no she is not on the lease to the house it is just me. I have an outside storeage laundry room that is not climate controlled at all. Currently her stuff occupies almost a full bedroom. It is just stacks and stacks of stuff. My wish would be for her either to come get the stuff, but I would make it clear to her that I would be moving it to the laundry room outside if she doesn't get it so that I have a functioning house.

"Yes, this is a tough problem to thread. You are in a bit of a limbo. You want her stuff out because she may not ever live there again, but you would want her to come back if she gets some help. Is that correct?"
                           This is correct. She has started going to a therapist but she only made the appointment because she thought she needed to see someone about her dad. My hope is fully discloses everything to the therapist who can see the underlying issues. Also her sister is seeing the same therapist and is presenting updates in hopes that she can take truthful information into their session. So again it is a limbo of I don't know if she is truly getting help. I have not even contemplated a timeline for divorce at this point.

So it is not so much furniture that is here, but boxes of shoes, items from her childhood, garbage bags of clothes, and rubbermades of just miscellaneous items that belong to her. I can't currently afford a storage unit to put the items in. The furniture in our home is her great grandmothers and I have every intent on keeping it and I told her that. Thins are not tense at all, and I only hear from her when she needs some sort of emotional support. Her grandfather went into the hospital about two weeks ago and she called me at 1:45am to tell me. Her boss was also recently fired and he was looking out for her when she was having a hard time working full days and she called me to tell me she wasn't ok and needed to talk. Otherwise I don't hear from her at all. This past weekend I was out of town and I sent her a text that said if she was confident she was done she needed to come get her stuff otherwise we should sit down and talk about the situation and we could work something out. She was more concerned that her sister was watching the dogs and that I told her sister that she had moved out. I never got a definitive answer from her and she came by in my absence and took only 1 rubbermaid container and left the rest of the room.

She has reached out to two different friends and she has presented her new "boyfriend" as a guy she is seeing so I'm not sure if she even has an intention of returning. As I posted above he is a 22 year old grad student with no other friends in the area, no family, and no job. He is planning on graduating and leaving the state so I imagine that will put her into some sort of issue when that comes around. She claims to our friends this is the happiest she has ever been and leaving took a weight off her shoulders. So I am not sure what exactly is going to happen. 

I was considering sending her a message that lays out some boundaries saying pretty much I need you to come get your stuff because this is the decision you have made. If not it will all be placed outside in storage. This does not mean you can't come home or call me if you need something, it just means the spare bedroom can no longer be used for storage.

Any thoughts or additional information you need from me please let me know. Thanks again for any help.

[Skip]

You could put the stuff in storage, pay 60days rents, and send her a key.  If she doesn't pick it up or pay the rent, the storage people will remove it.

It sounds like you want asnwers and she is just going with her flow. It's a difficult position to be in, for sure.

[stolencrumbs]

Hey lostlawyer,

My $.02 (if it's even worth that) is to think about whether you need her permission to put some of her stuff in the laundry area/storage at your place. I know I often find myself feeling trapped or like I can't do something without telling my wife or getting her "okay" on it, when I really do have options. Think about whether you're giving away some control to her that you don't need to give away. You have a good reason for wanting to clear out her stuff from the rooms, and you've asked multiple times for her to get her things. It seems to me that at this point, it would be reasonable to move her things out of the rooms. I'm not sure you need to say anything to her about it. Pack her stuff well, handle with care, store neatly, etc. If she comes to get her things, they'll be there. If she wants to come back, you can tell her it was really hard to live in the house with all of her stuff, but you're really happy she wants to come back and you'll help move her stuff back in. To Skip's point, this won't give you the kind of answers you want, but it might help with the day-to-day issue of having her stuff in your house.

[pearlsw]

Hi LostLawyer,

In a way are you wanting to use the stuff as a way to get an answer from her about whether she's leaving for real or might want to come back?

She may not be able to give that answer, as you can see.

If the stuff is bothersome, I agree, boxing it up neatly is the first step.

As hard as it is, try to handle it as dispassionately as you can. Handling the stuff on your own, packing it up, doing what you think is best (but right), could give you some much needed peace of mind. This is a chance for you to take your life into your own hands.

take care, pearl.

[Lostlawyer]

I don't feel like I am trying to use it as an answer because at the end of the day I would be telling her she is welcome to return. But I think I might follow everyones advice and get some rubbermaids and just pack it all up and put it outside. It is bothersome as it takes up one of the two bedrooms in my house and I don't currently have a guest bedroom to use. I just was more concerned that potentially something that she cares about could be ruined and I would hate to have that happen which is why I wanted to give her the opportunity to remove it herself.

[Skip]

What about putting it in controlled storage, paying rent for two months, send her the key?

It does seem like the it might be a way of communicating... .are you sure its just a functional question?

[Lostlawyer]

Unfortunately there is a financial issue with renting anything. We lived comfortably with our two salaries, but now I am pretty tight on money. I can afford to keep my home and the rest of my bills but I don't have a lot of extra spending money. I also gave her two prior opportunities to get her stuff and she came and took very little. Outside of that she has made no effort so I think my best course of action is to pack up the majority of stuff and place it out there. I will most likely take things that I know are valuable and important and box them up inside. I'm sure I can stick them under a bed or in a closet.

[Skip]

Makes sense... .

She has thrown everything in limbo. You don't know where it stands (long term) and it won't be constructive to force the issue.

Getting yourself "whole" is important.

Skip

[Panda39]

Hi Lostlawyer,

None of us know what is going to happen in the future and I only suggest this to protect yourself... .a "just in case" kind of thing.

You might also document (keep emails or texts or keep notes) your requests that she pick up her things, document that you have told her what you are doing with her things and where she can find them and how long you will be keeping them if you decide to put a deadline on it at some point.

Panda39

[Lostlawyer]

So I'm going to start packing her stuff off this week and place it in some rubbermaids.  I have decided to give her until January 2nd to see how reacts and to see if she comes around. At that time I will go ahead and file for divorce since it will be six months and she will have been with her "boyfriend" the whole time. In the mean time should I be reaching out to contact her at all or just stay radio silent like I have been? I saw all of our friends this past weekend and they all admitted none of them had heard from her in weeks.

[pearlsw]

So I'm going to start packing her stuff off this week and place it in some rubbermaids.  I have decided to give her until January 2nd to see how reacts and to see if she comes around.

Hi Lostlawyer,

Is there anything you need or want to talk with her about?

Where will you put the storage bins?

How are you feeling now?

take care, pearl.

[Lostlawyer]

I want to talk to her about where her head is. She wont give me any real answers or any closure. She does not even speak to me at all anymore really. I am going to put the storage bins in the outside laundry room. I am feeling pretty good otherwise. I get sad when i'm working with her stuff and I feel very powerless since there is nothing I can do because confronting her as not worked at all. She seems to like to flaunt the "boy" on snap chat knowing that I can see it.

[Lostlawyer]

Here is the update as of yesterday. She texted me around 5:30pm yesterday. It was Rosh Hoshanah and I am Jewish and had the day off which she knew. She also had the day off for the holiday but is not Jewish therefore does not celebrate. She asked if she could come by and get some stuff. I didn't answer right away so she followed up with "please?". I told her give me 20 minutes as I was about to jump in shower. I didn't want to be at the house while she was moving out stuff. Since the last post I have put all of her stuff in nice rubbermaid crates and stacked it all in a bedroom in preparation to take it into the back shed. As I walked out to leave she was pulling up. We crossed paths. She asked me if I was leaving I responded yes. She asked if she was still allowed to get stuff, I told her yes. When I came home I found that all she had taken was one painting that used to hang on the wall as well as 3 bins of shoes. She had left everything else behind. She also seemed to have gone through one of the closets but I cannot tell at this point what she took.

Going forward, do I now communicate to her that she clearly is not making an effort to have her stuff out and give her a deadline, or do I continue on with the original plan and just move it out? I did not plan on moving the stuff out if she showed effort, but taking just her shoes with her clearly does not show effort more so that she was looking for items she uses and didn't care about the rest of her stuff. I was just curious if anyone had any incite. Thank you.

[pearlsw]

Here is the update as of yesterday.

Going forward, do I now communicate to her that she clearly is not making an effort to have her stuff out and give her a deadline, or do I continue on with the original plan and just move it out? I did not plan on moving the stuff out if she showed effort, but taking just her shoes with her clearly does not show effort more so that she was looking for items she uses and didn't care about the rest of her stuff. I was just curious if anyone had any incite. Thank you.

Hi Lostlawyer,

Hope you had a nice holiday!

On the topic at hand... .Okay, in your mind this wasn't enough effort. I get that! What was it in her mind do you think? Is she kinda "lazy" for lack of a better term? Didn't want to carry stuff by herself? Didn't have much room in her car (I'm assuming she came by car)? Had a limited amount of time? Did she expect/hope for some help lifting stuff from you? What happened?

It seems fair to ask when she will be back to finish retrieving her stuff.

I wouldn't "judge" her effort in any note to her. "She clearly isn't making an effort." "She doesn't care about her stuff." Not helpful comments to make to her I think. Hmmm. It is all packed up now? Do you want to put them outside by the laundry room as you planned? Would that give you some peace of mind for now?

warmly, pearl.

[Lostlawyer]

I did have a nice holiday for the most part. It's not so much in my mind it wasn't enough effort it is more so that last time she did this and she moved out she left all her stuff the same way and became enraged when she found out I took it to her mom's house. This time I don't have that option as her mom doesn't have enough room. I don't know if in her mind she is lazy or she doesn't want to take it because she knows it will give her an anchor back into the relationship. She has to know despite everything she kept saying about wanting me to move on having a room of women's items would clearly prevent that. She did come by car and she has a mini SUV so she would have had plenty of roo. I think she was looking for something in the closet she rummaged through I am not sure what. I think she went into the room with all her stuff saw the shoes and took that as a practical item she could take. The place she moved into is very small and I don't think she wants the inconvenience of having the stuff in her place. Several of the crates I have her are stuff from her child hood that she moved into the house when her mom moved. Nothing is overly heavy so she would not have had a problem moving it. And a lot of the smaller items she clearly could have taken with no problem. Today in the mail her change of address paperwork came so she has changed her address with the post office. I don't know what to make of that. I just feel like I can't have any kind of life or closure if that is what she wants with an entire bedroom and two closets full of her stuff. Tomorrow her sister has to put her service dog down so we will all be together. I think next week I will let her know the paperwork is here and she needs to come get it as well as getting her stuff. I would not judge her effort I am attempting to avoid confrontation, but I need to know if she plans on getting these items or not. Last time I asked her she was more concerned with who knew she moved out than with giving me a straight answer.

Do you think it is a good idea to give her a deadline to get the items out or just ask her nicely to do just that?