Request to talk about ‘future plans’ from W...thoughts?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Enabler-
I think that you are spot on with everything.  What I have struggled with is how to go about letting her go.  How do I stop 'caring'.  As hard as I have tried, I can't seem to get there.  I agree that it would be best but I don't know that I have the tools to go about doing that. 

WC

[Woodchuck]

Enabler-
I think that you are spot on with everything.  What I have struggled with is how to go about letting her go.  How do I stop 'caring'.  As hard as I have tried, I can't seem to get there.  I agree that it would be best but I don't know that I have the tools to go about doing that. 

WC

[Enabler]

Woodchuck, I think you misunderstand me, this is NOT about caring any less, this is not about letting go. This about consciously and purposefully taking a different route. I’m not suggesting this route involves making unlateral ‘us’ decisions like “I’ve decided we’re going to move to Alaska and live in an iglu”, in fact the opposite, I’m suggesting you stop trying to push her to move forwards instead take your own route at each juncture. Have you ever been for a walk in the woods with the kids, lots of different paths, you know the way, they think they know the way. Would you stand there and argue the toss with them or just walk down the correct path? I personally would walk down the correct path, listen to them scream and shout, call me an idiot and then keep walking with an eye on them to make sure they follow... .SHOW THE WAY don’t tell her the way.

The way is less conflict, the way to less conflict is less arguing, the way to less arguing is one of you not invalidating the other one, the way to less invalidation is more acknowledgement, empathy and hearing and less retort, accusations, corrections.

Like all good war movies, accept you’re dead... .now what you going to do? The narrative doesn’t matter anymore, who’s right or wrong doesn’t matter any more, the outcome matters. She doesn’t want to listen to you, blocking you is her way of telling you that. All she wants to do is tell... .let her, soak it up, get a punch bag, come here and rant about how unfair it all is, but telling someone who doesn’t want to hear is fruitless... .so stop. Not everything she ‘tells’ you is fact, most things she tells you she feels is true. Listen to her truth, all of it, then filter it.

[Woodchuck]

Enabler-
The scenario you describe of taking a hike in the woods is a great analogy and identifies where I am stuck.  I think, using that analogy, I am not so much concerned about 'being right' as much as I am about the screaming combined with the 'I don't know' responses when I ask which way she thinks we should go.  Those are the things that I am referring to having to stop caring about about, especially the screaming and tantrums telling me that I am going the wrong way.  I need to figure out a healthy way to just let that go.

WC

[Notwendy]

Stop asking her what she wants. She probably doesn't know herself or it changes from day to day or moment to moment or the topic is so emotional for her she feels emotionally flooded by it.

I agree with Enabler- to just not discuss the hot topics. It goes no where. They will not be resolved by talking to each other. Why do you think lawyers handle divorces? Because even two people who don't have BPD can hardly talk about plans for dividing assets  and child custody in a fair way- due to the emotions involved. You two are not at the divorce stage but these topics are emotional, heated, triggering and full of resentments for both of you. Neither of you can speak about them without becoming emotionally flooded.

IMHO it is a good thing that you have found ( or are seeking ) employment.

Don't get into discussions on the "value" of taking care of the home and child care. This is also emotional and influenced by perception. My BPD mother was a "homemaker" and didn't do much housework as far as I could tell, yet she felt things were very unfair and burdened by this position. During my time as a SAHM, I did most of the house and kids work and as far as my H was concerned, I was living the life of luxury while he was working so hard. Neither of us could see the other person's perspective and neither can you or your wife. If it comes down to where a market value needs to be placed on that, let a lawyer do it.

[Skip]

A lot of what enabler says is diagrammed here:



You are getting good advice on how to diffuse the day to day conflict.

There appears to be a fundamental values conflict driving a lot of this, and if there is going to be substantial improvement, that will need to be addressed at some point - and if she has BPD traits, the only hope of getting that process started is you.

Hang in there Wc.

[snowglobe]

Dear @Woodchuck,
I am so sorry you are locked in the “catch 22” situation. Reading through your thread, I could see a lot of longing for kindness, love, approval and intimacy coming from you. I could also see how hard you are trying, and feeling discouraged. It takes a lot of commitment, emotional maturity and high emotional iq to have a relationships with a BPD person. From the verbal exchange you described, I could see a lot of mistrust and need to punish you for the affair that is coming from your wife. I could also see that inadvertently, her words hit home. It’s interesting, that what hurts us the most, are the words or thoughts that reflect our inner narrative. In other words, the negative image or fears we have somewhere deep inside, when they are being reflected back to us, coming back from BPD place, they are equvant to a death by one thousand paper cuts.
Adding to what has been suggested by other members , I also encourage you to seek your own inner forgiveness. Somehow, I’m sensing the fact that you have unconsciously transferred the blame of adultery to her treatment of you, thus justifying it to yourself. A very important part of healing is to accept the fact that it was you, your actions and choices that lead to this. As we are all responsible for our actions. I too, struggle with responsibility for my own actions, words and reaction towards my unpeg. He may have as sure as hell started it, but I’m the one who had the choice of taking the higher, more mature road, instead of proving a point to someone who can’t connect the dots. You can’t prove anything to anyone, let alone person with a BPD. They will never accept responsibility for the pain and turmoil, what they will remember is the way you have reacted. Accepting the fact that you have made a mistake, isn’t equivalent to self punishment or self hate, it’s the radical acceptance of life as it is. You are not your actions, repeat after me. “I am not my actions, they are mistakes I made along the way. I am a good person, worthy of love, loveable, loving and loved. I made a mistake. My actions were wrong, I did not see the pain or considered the full consequences of my actions. I learn my lesson, I want to be better.” You have made a mistake, and you have caused a lot of pain to another person. When you stop fighting the reality and accept all the pain, sit with it and come to terms with it, it will be the ultimate begging of healing for your family. Until you can accept and process your own pain, you can’t see through hers. Being a non BPD means being emotional leader and caretaker of the relationships. Your wife is doubting, emotionally viotile and hurt. She can’t begin to heal and stop punishing you, until you will accept the fact that you have violated one of the most fundamental vows of the marriage (unless you had an unorthodox arrangement regarding your fidelity). She will remind you of that, it will be uncomfortable. As someone said to me recently: “have a sit, and let’s get comfortable with the uncomfortable.”
What I see is a man, who is trying to make amends for his mistake, you think you have been punished enough, paid your dues and now you want to move on. You also want her to put it behind her, being emotionally receptive, intimate and display her love for you. You want her unconditional love and acceptance. As most people on this forum do.
Putting any relationships back together, when they are so deep into a cycle of destruction is a long process and requires ultimate comment, with no guarantee of ever getting it to the point of a full recovery.
I hope you can sit on your pain, accept and process your feelings, become emotionally stronger and see your family out of this. I’m not suggesting anything, but from my experience, it takes a lot of hard work to fix things, it’s much easier to break it apart, less energy invested. However, when you are alone and your wife’s words are playing in your mind on repeat, she isn’t your harshest judge, it’s you. We are all human and programmed to make mistakes, some larger then others. The key to becoming less emotionally vulnerable, even if it will not work out at the end, is to accept your own flaws and work towards self forgiveness and doing better by her, or anyone else that you will end up with. I wish you strength

[Enabler]

  I think, using that analogy, I am not so much concerned about 'being right' as much as I am about the screaming combined with the 'I don't know' responses when I ask which way she thinks we should go.  Those are the things that I am referring to having to stop caring about about, especially the screaming and tantrums telling me that I am going the wrong way.  I need to figure out a healthy way to just let that go.

WC

WC, you are an adult, a mature mentally healthy adult. You make choices based on evidence, information and experience, sometimes those choices are wrong and sometimes they are right... .that’s life. The choices I am suggesting you make are not economic, they don’t involve making wholesale family decisions, hell they don’t even involve you making choices for other people... .they are choices for you. The choice is to not participate in conflict. Some conflict is productive, war can be fruitful if it brings about peace... .but this conflict is rhetorical, it has no momentum and is unproductive, it’s trench warfare. Someone has to stop it, someone has to swallow their pride, put aside right and wrong and look towards outcomes. YOU ARE THAT MAN.

I task you to seriously consider your core values, those values that you most likely live out daily with the checkout lady, the person who serves your coffee, the elderly man struggling with a shop door. My guess is you are kind, loving, caring generous in time but not in money (maybe money as well... .I’m personally tighter than a gnats chaff). You’ve lost these values with your wife, you can get them back of you choose to. It’s independent from her, she can cuss and critique as much as she liles. Be true to those values, stand up straight get that pride back, the pride she’s stripped you of/let her take. I talk a lot on the boards about armoury, the Roman centurions strength was as much about its ability to withstand attack as its ability to go on the offensive. It’s shield deflected arrows and spear. Soak up the attack.

Her path is her path, only she can decide that. Evidence tells you, you have no say in it.

Man hug comin’ at ya

Enabler

[Woodchuck]

Notwendy-
I have always tried to validate her being a SAHM.  I have not been perfect at it but I do understand that it is a pretty thankless job with young children and can be quite lonely.  I don't view it as a 'luxury life'.  Even as recent as last night, when we were talking about finances, I gave both of us credit for where we are at.  It isn't just me, it is her as well.  We have both worked equally hard.  The work is not 'equal' and IMHO can really not be compared but the dedication and commitment etc is the same and that is how I try to look at things pertaining to the living situation that we have had until recently.

Skip-
I do need to focus on diffusing conflict.  It is way to easy for me to allow myself to be drawn in.

Snowglobe-
I appreciate your insight and I think you make some very valid points about forgiving yourself and working through things on my end.  I believe that I have done that.  I have forgiven myself and I have set boundaries to ensure that I do not make the same mistake again.  I also have taken 110% of the responsibility for my actions.  I have never even remotely suggested that any of my choices were her responsibility.  It does not matter what she was or was not doing, the choice was mine and mine alone.  I own it 110% and always have.  I have not and am not fighting the fact that I caused my W a great deal of pain.  I have written many letters acknowledging everything in excruciating detail.  I have had countless discussions/confessions with her with a counselor present acknowledging and taking responsibility for everything.  I have never wavered from that stance and I never will.  It is my view that I have patiently sat in this pain for over a decade and there has been zero movement towards making things better and to make it even 'worse' is things were like this prior to my affair so the pain that I/we are sitting in has been going on for 16+ years.  Before the affair, she had (and still does but is no longer the focus) major problems with my FOO.  It got to the point where she demanded that I tell that I would never talk to or see them again or she would leave.  I believe that I am quite emotionally strong and am getting stronger every day and I have put in years and years of work to make things better and nothing has been successful.  I do need to work on being less emotionally vulnerable and am slowly getting better at that.

Enabler-
What you point out as far as not participating in conflict is really where I need to focus.  It is and is going to continue to be extremely difficult.  As far as what kind of person I am, I am willing to go out of my way to be kind, courteous and helpful to just about anyone, including my W.  This goes for time and money.  I was going through the drive-thru to get a meal last week and decided to just give the cashier a $20 and told her to take care of the people behind me.  Why?  I don't know, the idea just popped into my head.  The somewhat humorous result was I only ended up getting half of what I ordered.  I don't care for one of the supervisors that I have at work, yet I offered to help him get his car fixed and spent a weekend working on it for him, not expecting anything in return.  I have spent weekends while my W is at work doing any housework that I know she doesn't like doing.  Those are just a few examples.  Am I God's gift to women?  No, I also have a less than generous and pleasant side if I am crossed the wrong way or enough times.  I think you are right in a way that I have lost those values with her because I have spent years following those values and received virtually nothing but nastiness in return.  I am beyond understanding what good comes from continuing to be the nice guy is going to do for anyone.  I would do almost anything for her, even if it meant silence in return, but the constant fault finding with anything and everything for years has just become too much.  I do understand that her path is her choice and I cannot change it.  The frustrating part about the 'path' that she is taking is just sitting and refusing to go anywhere.  Can I control that for her?  No.  I have sat here with her, in the pain and suffering trying patiently to allow her time to heal and over years and years, nothing has changed.  It is not healthy for anyone.  I believe it is time to go or get off the pot.  I will spend my energy not engaging in conflict as that is really a big downfall for me.

WC

[Woodchuck]

I received an email from my W last night asking: "What is something non-physical/sexual that I can do that would make your life easier."


My first thought was to respond with, "leave" or "nothing" or "I have no interest in having any kind of physical interaction with you" or just ignoring it.  However, stopping and thinking about my response, I knew that none of those would be productive, let alone kind or anything good.  This morning, I replied back that I was not sure how to answer the question.  She replied that I could think about it and get back to her and that she appreciated the response.  The spot I am in now though is I don't want to answer the question.  99% of the time when she asks me what I want, she either does the opposite or makes sure that she doesn't do what I requested, so what is the point in even stating anything I want?  It seems like a passive way to control me in that if she knows what I want and can make sure that I don't get it, then she feels like she has control.  I understand that I could answer and tell her about what I would like and expect either nothing or the opposite to happen but still, what is the point?  Is there a listening aspect to this that I am missing?  In reality, I don't want her to do anything for me and there is really nothing that she could do that would make my life easier, at least not with the current mental state that she is in.


WC

[Cat Familiar]

OK, so you don't want to tell her what she could do that would be helpful to you.

And she doesn't want to tell you what would you could do to let her know you love her.

See the stalemate? Neither of you wants to be vulnerable to the other or indebted in any way.

[snowglobe]

I received an email from my W last night asking: "What is something non-physical/sexual that I can do that would make your life easier."


My first thought was to respond with, "leave" or "nothing" or "I have no interest in having any kind of physical interaction with you" or just ignoring it.  However, stopping and thinking about my response, I knew that none of those would be productive, let alone kind or anything good.  This morning, I replied back that I was not sure how to answer the question.  She replied that I could think about it and get back to her and that she appreciated the response.  The spot I am in now though is I don't want to answer the question.  99% of the time when she asks me what I want, she either does the opposite or makes sure that she doesn't do what I requested, so what is the point in even stating anything I want?  It seems like a passive way to control me in that if she knows what I want and can make sure that I don't get it, then she feels like she has control.  I understand that I could answer and tell her about what I would like and expect either nothing or the opposite to happen but still, what is the point?  Is there a listening aspect to this that I am missing?  In reality, I don't want her to do anything for me and there is really nothing that she could do that would make my life easier, at least not with the current mental state that she is in.


WC

Dear WC,
I can see the overt manipulation coming from your wife, she likely knows that you want to be held, caressed, told that you are loved and all is well. She knows you want those things but doesn’t want to offer them. To me, it seems that she is warming up and testing the waters. You are being hurt, again, since she doesn’t want to be physically intimate with you, so you passive- agressivwly fighting back.
You need to ask yourself a question; the same one @Skip asked me when I arrived here, and I pretty much made my choice right there and then. “Do you want to be right, or do you want to be effective?”. If you want to be right, then this is the hill you will die on, you are slowly participating in the decay of your marriage. Instead of pulling your affected partner upwards mentally, you are getting down on all fours and waiting for a miracle of her turning her ways.
I’m not a licensed therapist, yet, but I can tell you, if you continue down the same path, you will be left with nothing but regrets, ruines and heartache. You are also more likely to get yourself in identical predicament, unconsciously, in efforts to do better this time. You need to answer this question to yourself!
If you want to be effective, you will write back in a set method
S-support: “after much thinking and soul searching I want to thank you for thinking of me and my needs, even though you have so much pain and hurt to process
E- empathy:” majority of people in your situation would not be able to handle, let alone try to work through our issues
T-truth; but to be honest, there is nothing more I would love to do, then to hold you in my arms, to tell you how much I love you, your body, your souls, and feel us connect in the most intimate way I have ever connected with another human being. I understand that I may never have that again, but G-d, I would give up a lot for having another shot with you.

[Skip]

T-truth; but to be honest, there is nothing more I would love to do, then to hold you in my arms, to tell you how much I love you, your body, your souls, and feel us connect in the most intimate way I have ever connected with another human being. I understand that I may never have that again, but G-d, I would give up a lot for having another shot with you.

I think this is a good idea... .but maybe too much, too soon. I'd take a less personal baby step.

In reality, I don't want her to do anything for me and there is really nothing that she could do that would make my life easier, at least not with the current mental state that she is in.

This is "victim-think". WC. Man to man, I'm throwing cold water on you. Be a strong man.

Victim think is the source of relationship drama. You need to stop this - whether you or staying or going. Read about te winners triangle her.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

When you feel like a victim, shift emotional gears to be a strong man with likeable vulnerability (not weakness, or neediness).

You did in the first half of you last conversation with her. That effort apparently reached her on some level after a few days.  Good! This is how it typically works.

Is there a listening aspect to this that I am missing?  

Yes. It's on page 9 of "Communicating with a Wife for Dummies"  

She is inviting you to listen to her and offering a tiny little olive branch as a reward / incentive. She wants to sit down with you and trade a few small favors and see if that goes to the next step.

My suggestion is to ask her for something that she is inclined to do for you already (get a win / win under your belt) and ask her what she wants. If she says nothing, ask her to think about it and then you get back with her in a few days.

Do not lose your cool.

[snowglobe]

@WC,
You may not get why you want anytime soon, but you need to stop hurting her in your efforts to self protect. Accepting responsibility for your relationships starts with you. She is likely as affected as you are describing, and she is likely smearing you in emotional blackmail, yet, you are also standing there participating. Someone has to stop this cycle if you want to be effective. Being patient and consistent, is the only way to repair your relationships

[Enabler]

“I would like you to tell me about your day every day when you/I return from work”

Kind
Loving
CARING
GENEROUS IN TIME AND MONEY

Basic connection comes from sharing experience. What’s important to her is important to you. No shooting for the stars, no utopia thinking, no wish we could make love for 10 hours on a bed of roses. You know things are REALLY BAD, she knows things are REALLY BAD, you’re telling her that you’re both on the same wavelength, you’re both burnt out and you both need to eat bread and milk before reaching for fois gras or sushi.

So what if she tries to use this to torture you, that’s her path, you are choosing a different path, you are showing her the way (since she’s asking).

[Enabler]

Google ‘meadow report tony robbins’, true or not it made sense to me. Men don’t know where a gazelle is going to be so they don’t have to recall precise information, they just need to know how it was killed. Women need to come home to the village and report back precise information about where food / dangers / risks were on their foraging trips... .so the next person can go and get some the following day.

Give her the opportunity to give you her meadow report. She is not asking for analysis, you just have to listen as she downloads information.

[Woodchuck]

I feel like there is some misunderstanding regarding the latest issue surrounding the email.  For starters, I have been 'here' many many times where she suddenly changes and is 'interested' in what I want/need only to flip the script as soon as she has that info, so it is very natural to be cautious IMHO.  It is not as is this is a first glimmer of 'hope' that I have never experienced.
With that being said, I do see the stalemate and that is why I answered the email I did and came here to think things through.  I am trying to break the stalemate in an effective way.  I feel that I answered the email in a 'boring' no combative or non instigating manner and the result seemed positive as she told me to think about it and thanked me for replying.  I did not jump in and answer it with the first thought or any of the first 10 thoughts that came to my head.
I have absolutely no problem with her cutting out physical things.  I do not feel safe (emotionally) being close to her that way.  I cannot count the number of times I have reached out just to give her a hug and have been rejected.  I feel like the way I have handled this is very much a demonstration that I am trying to be effective and not worried about being right.  I appreciate the SET method that Snowglobe outlined.  The only issue with that is the Truth part of that where I would address the physical 'desires'.  For one, at this point that is not truth but even if it was, if I addressed things that way she would have a hay day with me 'not respecting her' and pushing for physical touch.  I know, I have been there.  I am not concerned about what I want and I am not sure how I am coming across that way.  The idea of telling her that I want to hear about her day is intriguing but I don't know that I can really commit to that under the current circumstances.  I guess the bottom line is, I am trying to be effective, not right and I am trying to return communication in the best way possible.  That is why I mentioned it here.  I see the stalemate and am trying to effectively break it and it seems like I am not able to communicate effectively here either.

WC
Snowglobe

[Woodchuck]

I am a bit confused and it is probably mostly due to my lack of understanding.  I know in previous conversations, things have been discussed about not falling for the charm of a PwBPD as they turn it on when they want something etc.  I guess this is why I have been cautious about answering this question.  I have leaned into the charm in the past and it only lasts until she gets what she wants.  The 'charm' continued this evening when she came to me and told me that she was willing to unblock me from her phone as long as I promised to not say anything negative via texting or expect her to answer within a certain time frame.  I see two things here.  The first being, this is coming after I let her know that I would be removing her phone from my account on Oct 1.  She had told me that she was already planning on moving her phone to a different provider.  Now, I am assuming that she really didn't have any plans and she is trying to smooth things so I won't follow through with what I told her I was planning on doing.  I just kept things 'boring' in my response and said 'ok'.  It may have been better to key in on it being a great idea to remove the negativity from our conversations but I did not think about that until after she had left the conversation.  I think what some may not understand here is I have had virtually zero boundaries with her for 18 years.  More or less whatever she has demanded, she has received.  Whatever she asked asked for has been given to her if at all possible.  I have allowed myself to be a doormat for her.  I am not saying that as a 'victim'.  It has been my choice and a very bad choice and I am working on changing that.  I have allowed her to treat me like crap and then act like nothing happened.  I have allowed her to be controlling and have not set limits on how far that goes.  It seems to me that feeding into how she is responding now is just more of the same thing that has gone on for years and I am not ok with that anymore. 

WC

[Enabler]

Great response on the phone blocking. My take is when she does positive things... .for whatever motivation (manipulative or otherwise) there's very little need to comment... .since that's what a regular person would have done anyway. If however she reverts to blocking you, state clearly that you will be removing her from your account, and remove her regardless of her later actions.

Wipe the slate clean now. Draw a line under the past and determine how you will respond going forward. "I will not pay for a phone that I am blocked from". Going back to the path analogy... .at that point she has 2 choices, left (she blocks you from her phone and you ditch her from the phone plan and she has to sort herself out), right (she doesn't block you and nothing happens). You are not controlling her, you are not TELLING her what to do, you are just making one path more appealing than the other. It's up to her if she wants to take the harder path.

Boundaries are tough. We expect our SO to act in our best interests, or the best interest of the family. Radically accepting this is not the case with your W will allow you to do what is fair and equitable whilst avoiding the sense that you are being mean to her. Her perception of mean is skewed by her own emotionally driven narcissism and sense of entitlement.

[Notwendy]

I understand what you are saying. My BPD mother is very manipulative and she has zero boundaries for decades. Whatever she wanted, she got, one way or another. Since my father passed away, I have enacted boundaries with her. If she hears a "no" she will then go through her various set of "tools" to get what she wants. Why would she not? These worked for her for decades. People do what works for them. I don't necessarily attribute this to some cruel intent. It is doing the behaviors that have been reinforced. Some of the tools- causing a scene- yelling, screaming, or threats, and also being super nice. If she is being super nice to me, I start to wonder what it is she wants. On my part, I just have to stay consistent- yes when I mean yes, no when I mean no - no matter what behaviors she has.

I was in a similar reinforcement pattern with my H. I was afraid of his anger and so I would do things to avoid him being angry or stop him being angry. So I reinforced that behavior. When I began to change my responses- for a while- he did what he knew to do- because it worked, so there was more anger until he learned that it wasn't going to work.

A classic example of this is the Skinner box, where the dog would push the button to get a treat. When that didn't work, the dog kept pushing the button frantically until it did work. If you start to reinforce the behavior some time- give in when you are pushed, it becomes even more of a reinforcement- intermittent reinforcement.

You have started to have some boundaries after 18 years- you changed your patterns of interacting with your wife. For the moment, she is going to do what she knows has worked for 18 years- because she has learned it works. Why would she not? I think it would help to look at this as how people, and living things behave. Also know that, if you remain firm with your boundaries she will eventually learn her behaviors don't work- and may learn to do something different.

With the phone- if you gave her the choice to unblock you and then have service- hold to your word. Don't fall for charm, or the bad times. Stay true to your boundaries and word either way. Another good boundary is to not discuss anything emotional by text. If she sends you an emotional or nasty text, simply respond- "I think it is best to discuss this in person". This way you are not sending her hurtful ( or interpreted as hurtful ) texts. If she blocks you again ,then follow this with action. Honey, I said if you blocked me I would disconnect the phone. Service is discontinued as of ( date) and let the service drop.  Be consistent and stay calm. After 18 years it takes some time for behavior patterns to change.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm not endorsing having unrealistic expectations that things might get better, but at the same time, it's important not to miss "tries" when she attempts to act in a way that is kinder and more thoughtful of you.

You both have a history of woundedness and that won't change quickly, but you can begin to build a better relationship, brick by brick. And acknowledging even the slightest movement on her part in that direction is important.

You've been here long enough to observe that pwBPD don't have many of the "normal" relationship skills that we come to expect of a partner. Often they can appear "normal" enough at times so it's easy to lose sight of the fact that they have a disability, which is as real as someone who needs a wheelchair.

It's not fair, but since we have greater abilities in that area, we need to take the lead to make things better. You may feel like you've been doing this for years, Woodchuck, and I'm certain you have. Unfortunately the way you've tried to show her love by being accountable, responsible, kind and thoughtful, has just not been seen by her, and it's no fault of your own. You just weren't speaking the same language as her.

Things are very fragile at this point in your relationship and it's up to you to decide if you want to take another shot at really making it work. If you do, one of the first things you'll have to set aside is your heap of resentment. I understand that you acquired this all honestly and that there's good reason for it. But at this point, it's a choice. Do you love your resentment or do you love your wife? If you want this marriage to continue and to thrive, you need to choose one or the other.

That said, I understand it's very difficult to let go of resentment that you feel is justified. I was the queen of resentment when I first landed here and I continued on that path for a couple of years, I'm embarrassed to admit. But it wasn't making my life any better, nor was it helping my relationship. When I was able to leave that load of historical horse pooty behind and focus on current times, things suddenly improved enormously in unexpected ways. And as I continue to find flexibility and openness to my husband, life has gotten so much better--even joyful, much to my surprise.

I hope that you can let go of the desire to make things fair and equitable. Think about the big picture of what you want--is it to be right? Or is it to have peace?

[formflier]

What's going on with having a "talk"?

I want to endorse the thoughts expressed by many others.  When there is an "attempt" at "normal" (like the offer to talk), please... please validate that... .and do your best.

FF

[formflier]

WC

Hey... .let me borrow military mind for a minute.  Breathe... .relax and think.

You are confusing "strategic" and "tactical"

Skip is asking you for a "strategic" (big picture) idea of where you want to go.

From there... .we can coach you on "how" (the tactical piece) to go about achieving what you want "strategically"


Hey man... .I know you have a lot on your mind "over and above" the relationship.  I would "nudge" you towards working on communication and trying to "resolve" things because that has best chance to "reduce the temp" for the next 6 months or year.

You both have been pouring gas on the fire for so long, it's hard for either of you (or us for that matter) to see how good (or less bad) the relationship can get.  Perhaps it can be tolerable, perhaps good... perhaps it won't improve.

We can't know this until there is a consistent effort to figure it out.

I'll pause... .focus on "big picture" question you are being asked.

FF

[Harri]

This thread has been locked as it reached the post limit.  Part 2 of this thread is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329538.0