Finally came to pass; estranged from both parents, possibly for long term

[cedarview]

Hi Everyone,

It's been a while since I posted but we came to a significant milestone in our journey with my uBPD mother and narcissist (or at least totally self centered and paranoid) father on Sunday during therapy.

My mother has stopped speaking to my wife and I since Christmas, and we have been treated terribly before that as well, largely because we "stole" our children away from her suffocating and unhealthy influence. My father has periodically taken my mother's side while at other times confiding that he would divorce my mother, I suppose all of this is based on how she is treating him at any given time (as the "golden" family member or as complete garbage; you know the drill).

Anyway, my wife and I have been trying to establish a separate relationship with my father, away from my mother and all her problems. My father and I have been to therapy and my wife has joined us for a number of sessions as well. My father was very receptive and it felt good to have my father "back" at least a little.

The significant problem we have been chipping away at with my father is that he gives credence to my mother's insane resentment and wild accusations of desertion by us. In other words, he parrots her statements about us "stealing" our children away from them and has said on numerous occasions that he HAS TO stick with his wife because that is just what being married is all about. So there is absolutely no feeling of sympathy, empathy, responsibility or love for yours truly and certainly none for my wife. I am an only child and there is a vacation property that was bought by my paternal grandparents and has stayed in the family. My father is the 100% owner and for many years he wanted me to sign onto the deed so I could share in taxes and other expenses. When I got married all of the sudden that idea went out the window. As we have had children and started spending every Summer at this property, any talk of my even inheriting the property ground to a halt. In therapy my father admitted that this is because he wants to use the property as some sort of "bait" or empty promise to dangle in hopes of controlling me further. He even spoke of trying to pass the property somehow directly to our minor children through a trust or something else equally ridiculous.

The property in question is a spiritual home for me. My screen name is actually based on the name of the property because it has so much importance to me and my family that when I can't think of anything else it is my fallback. My therapist told me that in order to heal I needed to come to terms with letting go of that attachment because it would be used to hurt me, and she was correct. It has taken me months and lots of unhappiness, but at that meeting on Sunday my wife and I told my father we would no longer be going there. His response was that he will just sell it if nobody will be using it, and in response he was told that he can do whatever he wants. I cried later that night along with my kids who are so sad that we have to say goodbye to our vacation home, but I feel that I am finally free.

If my father dies first, we have little doubt that my mother will disown my wife and I anyway. His refusal to even take a small step to keep that property in the family and ensure it is passed to my kids tells me that he is a lost cause. We don't want their house, we don't want their money, we don't want their cars or their antiques. All we wanted was that vacation house and they KNEW IT. I may never speak to my parents again and I remain in shock, but there is still something GOOD about knowing I have disarmed them from the last weapon they had over me.

You cannot control the actions of others, but you can control the way their actions affect you. People can only use emotional blackmail against you if you give them the tools to do so.

Just an update. Love to all out there experiencing the struggle every day with these very sick, very sad, very hurtful family members with BPD.

[zachira]

I hear your pain and frustration in trying to have a separate relationship with your father. I also hear your sadness about losing the vacation property which is a spiritual place for you and your family with many fond memories. I too have a father who enabled my mother with BPD. It has taken me many years to come to terms with the fact that my father in many ways was just as damaged as my mother, as he enabled her and did not stand up for his children. There is so much heart break yet it sounds like you are doing everything you can to have a relationship with your father, and you have decided you can no longer have a relationship with your mother because of her behavior. Is there any possibility of getting individual therapy for your father? It sounds like he is not such a strong person inside, and maybe by doing some individual therapy he might become more of his own person. It is possible that your mother will die first, and your father is probably not going to do so well, unless he is able to stand more on his own two feet. It is so hard to know what to do. I admire how you are supporting your wife and are doing what is best for your children. Keep us posted and let us know how you are doing.

[GaGrl]

Cedarview, I feel your pain.  My step-grandmother (uNPD/BPD) sold my grandfather's inherited property (that had been in our family since the late 1700s) to a relative.  The relatives specifically asked, "Does E not want the property?" -- and SGM assured them that my mother had said she didn't want it.  Nothing had been said about selling the property to my mother -- an only child.  My mother was hurt and angry.  Years later, grandad died, and my SGM had gotten him to sign a new will -- while diagnosed with Alzheimer's -- taking my mother out of the will.  Once my mother had grieved her father's death and reconciled herself to her stepmother's actions, she was able (finally! in her 60s) to separate and to go low-almost-no-contact.  It was incredibly freeing.

Still hurts though.

[cedarview]

Thank you for the comments and kind words. My father definitely could benefit from individual therapy and it has come up on more than one occasion but usually he just kind of blows it off. Knowing his narcissistic ways he would probably not last long with any therapist that didn't just enable and praise him. Through all of this both my parents stubbornly refuse to take any responsibility for anything and act as if their behavior are perfectly reasonable for anyone else in their situation. Of course! Who wouldn't jump at the opportunity to treat their son and his wife like dirt?

My wife and I are very angry right now, and a lot of it has to do with the way this is affecting our children. We don't demonize my parents in discussions with our kids, but they know that my parents are trying their best to hurt us because my parents feel hurt regardless of why. It is tough to see my kids cry and feel sad about the whole situation but this is a grieving process for all of us no doubt and ultimately it will be healthy.

Of course we have quite a bit of furniture, appliances and other belongings in that house including big kayaks, and so we are renting a truck in a couple weeks to drive down and pack it up. It will be bittersweet (and expensive, using "money we don't have" as my dear wife says) but we really do need to clear ourselves out and sever the emotional and physical ties we have with the place. We have our doubts that my parents will have the gumption and motivation to sell it (they don't need the money and have always been absentee owners anyway, leaving  most of the upkeep and maintenance to us or paying people), but I am still checking Zillow on a regular basis to monitor the situation.

Sad!

[zachira]

I join you in your sadness of having to severe ties with both parents. I admire your healthy boundaries with your children in not involving them in this as much as possible. I  was wondering how you have become the person you are and are so different from your parents? Do keep us updated. You never know what can happen. I am now LC with my three family members with BPD and I suspect that I will be alternating like some others who post here between LC and NC due to financial and other family connections. You may want to think about what boundaries you might set if indeed you do interact with your parents again, and this is likely since you are an only child.I find after a long break from my family members with BPD, it is best to be prepared in advance as to what could happen which lessens the impact on me and sets new limits to some degree on how much bad behavior they are able to get away with.

[cedarview]

Hi Zachira,

I appreciate your saying that I sound like a well adjusted person and I hope that I am that for my family and for myself. I honestly think I got the best parts of both my parents and somehow avoided the more problematic parts. My wife tells me not to take it out of context but that my parents probably shouldn't have had children! I have to LOL at that one of course.

My manager at work had a long history of similar issues with her parents and especially her mother who suffered from dementia. She (my manager) insists that when one or both of my parents experience some health crisis or something like that that they will re-appear in my life. My wife and I both could see that, but with therapy and a LOT of talking and thinking, we are more well-prepared, especially when it comes to boundaries. These are what we have come up with as our "rules" for my parent(s) if they want to have a relationship with us.

1. Professional help; Both of my parents would benefit from therapy, and my mother's prior therapist provided my mother with contact information for therapists specializing in BPD. She also offered my father with contact information for a male therapist she thought would be a good fit. It hasn't worked out that my parents have had any significant success with going to therapy consistently. For my wife and I, the act of regularly going to therapy is one of the only meaningful, objective ways to SEE that someone is actually DOING the work that is needed to get better. If you believe you have no reason to go to therapy and you believe everything is "fine" while we see for ourselves that it isn't, then that is a big red flag.

2. Personal Responsibility; As adults you WILL take responsibility for your actions and your words. People like my parents are big on saying insulting or offensive things and then claiming they don't remember that when confronted later. "I was just having a bad day that day" is no excuse. Gossiping and insulting us behind our backs is not OK. Screaming and making threats and saying things like "You are the biggest mistake of my life" or "You stole my grandchildren from me" is not OK and won't be pardoned because you were "upset" . Adults are expected to control themselves and not act out like infants and if they do, they are expected to APOLOGIZE using the ACTUAL WORDS "I AM SORRY". How many times have we all gotten half-apologies like "I'm sorry you misunderstood what I meant" or "I regret saying that and that it got back to you".

3. Boundaries; We are independent functioning adults who have endured mistreatment and abuse from my parents. Any boundaries my wife and I wish to erect concerning our children and access to them, our home, our places of employment, and our calendar planning (i.e. holidays) have to  be respected because all of those things are OUR responsibility and domain. If they ever do again, my parents will access our children through US. When you have been abusive in your language and actions you FORFEIT your ability to "just drop by" without warning, to open our doors without knocking, and to send cards and gifts through the mail to our kids, just to mention a few things. If we feel our rules or boundaries are being violated, as adults you must acknowledge that STOP the violations. We do not need to explain to you or provide evidence of anything; if we say stop violating our boundaries then stop doing it.

This is the minimum that we demand from my parents, but as most of you already know, the above are nearly impossible for a BPD to achieve, and since my father is choosing to stick with his wife we are all at a impasse. I would recommend anyone who is LC or NC to draft a list of their own with the top three or four things that they need from that BPD in their life if the BPD wants to resume contact. What do you think?

[zachira]

Thank you so much for sharing your list of boundaries with your parents. You and your wife are so wise to have specific plans about how you are going to deal with your parents if you have contact with them in the future which is highly likely as you are an only child and your parents will probably have some health problems in the future. I cannot say how much I respect everything you and your wife have done to face the problems by attending therapy, and it seems to me you have done everything humanly possible to improve your relationship with your parents. I really like your list of what your parents have to do to have a relationship with your family. I agree with you that those of us who have NC or LC with our family members with BPD will be better prepared to deal with any contact we have with them, if we make a list like yours. Thank you for being an example for many of us who are treading water trying to do the best we can with our family members with BPD. Please keep in touch.

[Radcliff]

cedarview,

It sounds like your parents have toxic behaviors that you want and need to shield yourself, your wife, and your children from.  We want you to be successful in protecting your family from these unhealthy behaviors.  The most important "trick" to achieving this protection with the lowest amount of effort and drama is to look at boundaries not as ways to control others, but as ways to define the protective action you take in response to a bad situation.  It's a different spin on things that will actually meet your objective more effectively.  Take a look at this page on setting boundaries to learn more.

The reason this is important is that you can be successful at controlling your own actions.  Expecting a disordered, toxic person to behave in a way we want them to just sets us up for conflict and frustration.  In fact, if they detect that we are trying to control them, they may do the opposite of what they want, so they feel safe and in control.  If your personality disordered people are anything like mine, you know what I'm talking about! 

Let's look at the example of you not wanting them to walk into your house without permission.  With a rules-based approach that attempts to control their behavior, if they arrive unannounced, you'll likely be upset.  If they enter without permission, you'll likely be livid (I would be, at least).  They have failed to live up to your demands.  Let's look at a boundaries based approach.  You quietly change the locks.  If they arrive unannounced, you don't let them in.  You may choose to go outside and explain that you've already got plans for the day, but you'd be happy to see them at a better time.  You might even suggest a date in the future (or not).  Then you give them a smile and calm goodbye and walk inside.  If they blow up your cell phone with texts or calls, turn it off.  Enjoy whatever family activities you were busy with.  Because all of the things that you are doing are things you control, you'll likely feel less threatened and upset.  You can congratulate yourself that things went exactly as you planned.  Your parents will be mighty annoyed.  In fact, when boundaries first start being enforced, they will likely display a pattern of activity called an extinction burst, where they try mightily and noisily to get you back in line.  Calmly resist and stick to your boundary behaviors.  Consistency is key -- if you waiver, it will reward them for pushing against your boundaries.  Eventually, when they realize that the behavior of coming over unannounced is not paying off for them, they may change their behavior, which is a secondary bonus for you.  The main payoff is that you took action to avoid an intrusion and you immediately felt shielded from the unhealthy behavior.

I've been pushing back against some very abusive behavior for a couple of years now, and have done it the "rules" way where I'm trying to control my pwBPD's behavior, and the "boundaries" way where I'm only defining my own behavior.  The first way was not effective, increased conflict, and sent my anxiety, anger, and resentment through the roof.  The "boundaries" way is working.  I've come to a place of acceptance that I can't force any changes in my pwBPD, and have erected boundaries to protect myself.  I hope that someday we can get to a warmer, safer relationship, but I'm living my life now and not holding my breath.  I'm never going back to the old way!

Does that make sense?  Can you see how you could reframe the rules that you've expressed into boundaries where transgressions are followed by your own protective actions?

RC

[Turkish]

It sounds like a nice property, and I'm sorry that they are choosing to use this to punish you.  My mom had a nice 5 acres on the forest with a stream and for different reasons,  it's gone even though my mom always said it was my inheritance.  It had cedars also.

You're likely pissed, angry and hurt,  yes? 

Screaming and making threats and saying things like "You are the biggest mistake of my life" or "You stole my grandchildren from me" is not OK and won't be pardoned because you were "upset" . Adults are expected to control themselves and not act out like infants and if they do, they are expected to APOLOGIZE using the ACTUAL WORDS "I AM SORRY". How many times have we all gotten half-apologies like "I'm sorry you misunderstood what I meant" or "I regret saying that and that it got back to you".

My mom told me a couple of times "sometimes I wish I'd never adopted you!" Things like that are horrible to say to a child of any age. As for your kids, your nuclear family is your primary family and you need to protect them.  I can also imagine how hard it might be to talk to your kids if they are unaware of the dysfunction. 

As my therapist said,  "personalities typically don't change." Throwing out therapy might seem more like a demand than a boundary,  as boundaries should be tied to our values.  My mom was in therapy her whole life and it helped her cope with herself,  not others that I could see. 

[Harri]

Radcliff said: 

We want you to be successful in protecting your family from these unhealthy behaviors.  The most important "trick" to achieving this protection with the lowest amount of effort and drama is to look at boundaries not as ways to control others, but as ways to define the protective action you take in response to a bad situation.  It's a different spin on things that will actually meet your objective more effectively.

Excellent input, thank you Radcliff!  We *can* establish boundaries and take action on them in ways that do not escalate the conflict.  Focus on our values, realistic expectations and what boundaries are enforceable.  We have to put the action part on us as we are the only one we can control.

[cedarview]

Hi Guys,

Thank you as usual for the good advice. Yes I think it is more constructive and reasonable for everyone involved if boundaries and limits are based more on what will WE expect and tolerate than on actions or behaviors that we DEMAND from others. If parents with BPD were able to follow suggestions or instructions than they would be easier to deal with but we all know that is not always the case!

No surprise that at this point my wife and I are currently experiencing the silent treatment for about a week and a half. I can only assume that will continue off into the future. Why is it that even after experiencing cycles of this emotional abuse for years there is some part of me that is surprised and resentful when it happens again? I guess there is always that spark of hope that my parents will change. I am especially disappointed in my father because we had been going to therapy together and I have no idea how many times my wife and I both implored him to reach out and contact us even if my mother was silent treating us. He seemed surprised each time as if it never occurred to him that by tagging along with her abuse he was magnifying it and making it worse. I suppose he is sick in his own way that is equally as damaging.

So, after months and months of mourning the loss of my mother (emotionally at least), we have finally chosen to, at least for now, abandon hope of getting through to my father as well. He is so psychologically stuck and co-dependent where my mother is concerned that he willfully ignores and makes excuses for her behavior and will defend her to the last against her greatest enemies; my wife and me!

[zachira]

It sounds like you and your wife have made the best decision you can for your family's well being. Know that you are helping your parents in a way by not enabling their dysfunctional behaviors which means there is perhaps some minuscule chance that things will change for the better in the future. Most of all, you are putting the health and happiness of your children and marriage first. The decision you and your wife have made is a difficult painful yet necessary one. Most likely you will always hope that things will get better, as I don't think any of us with a parent with BPD and the family members that enable the person with BPD, ever stop wishing for a sincere apology and change to better behaviors from those who have treated us so unfairly. It is easy to forget about a friend that has wronged us and move on, and then there are loses that we never quite heal from. Do take time to let yourself feel the sorrow and anger from time to time so the feelings do not pile up and overwhelm you. You will be okay though, as you have created a happy fulfilling life for yourself. All the best to you and your wife, and keep in touch!