Too Young To Understand How To Handle This

[OneSided]

Hi to all,

I am truly unsure where to begin my first post. There is so much to say and I am unsure how to fit an 8 year story into a message that won't be 20 paragraphs long. In a way I feel a bit of relief knowing I finally found a "support" group to maybe help shed some light on this difficult situation. I have been searching all over but have been unsuccessful in finding a support group geared for "family members" who know of someone who has BPD. Although my family is a great outlet and is such a huge help for me, they are bias towards me because they are my family and they are not dealing with the situations first had. So, at times it is difficult for them to fully understand.

Before I start to get into things I wanted to say that I truly love my Mother-in-law. She gave me the greatest gift I could have ever asked for, which is my wonderful husband. However, even though I love her, I don't like her at the moment. This is where I struggle a lot. I feel as though I shouldn't feel this way but no matter how hard I try to push it aside or think differently about her, it only comes back with even greater feelings of dislike.

I have never heard of BPD until this past spring, when I went to see a therapist to help deal with the feelings I had towards my now Mother-in-law. They did not specialize in BPD but he did direct me into reading about it after telling him more about my MIL.

Clearly, he couldn't say with 100% certainty she has this disorder, but from what I have read and researched, I believe she may. And to be honest it was a huge relief to be able to put a name to something I thought was all in my head.

I have read countless books and articles but non of them can talk back to me. A book has only gotten me so far and I truly am confused about how to approach my current dilemma. Just when I feel as though I understand what to do... .something pops up that has me re-thinking stuff.

I have been with my now husband for 8 years, we recently have been married. When we first met we were only 18, and now at age 26, there are a lot of grey areas that have built up over the years with his mother. We are still very young and are going at this blind and confused. We know so little about life as it is. So, to try and fit the pieces together and make decisions about how to approach his mom can be difficult when you don't have many life experiences to help guide you. I know what you may be thinking, I have that typical mother-in-law, daughter-in-law relationship you see in a movie or book. Unlike the books or movies though, we haven't found our happy ending.

I noticed my MIL's strange behavior about two or three years into our relationship. At first I thought it was all in my head and again, being young, I thought it was just my 19 or 20 year old mind making something out of nothing. I can't remember that far back, things are fuzzy but it was all the small stuff that truly added up over the years to become the big stuff.

My MIL has been divorced twice and has had countless online boyfriends from different countries. Out of both her marriages she has had two children. Her first marriage she had her son and in her second marriage she had her daughter. From the age of 8 she put my husband into the role of the "man of the house" and a father figure to his little sister. He's worked two jobs in high school because she asked him to and when he wanted to head to college my MIL ended up convincing him to stay home because she "couldn't live financially" if he left. One memory I do remember, is when he dropped below part time in community college because he had to work two jobs to help his mom. I guess in his dad's and his mom's divorce agreement, it stated if my husband ended up dropping below part time in college, his dad no longer had to pay child support. My husband had no clue that was in the agreement. Needless to say he ended up getting an ear full. His mom was extremely upset because she felt as though he had done that on purpose just so she didn't get the money. She told him, "do you want me struggle like this", "do you enjoy seeing your mother like this", " I need that money to live"... .So, to please his mom, he went back to part time and worked those two jobs... .To see my sister-in-law now in college, it is the complete opposite of my husband. My MIL supported her decision to go away and live on campus, she doesn't have my SIL work two jobs to help make ends meet and basically lets her do everything she never let my husband do.

After knowing what I do now and reading the books that explain how the parent who has BPD has a golden child and a scapegoat child, it was clear my husband has always been the scapegoat child and his younger sister, the golden child.

Ever since my husband and I have gotten more serious and now married, things with her have just escalated. She has told him straight out in one of their one-on-one talks that, "He has f*ck her ever since he met me", "As your mother I should always come first, your fiance comes second"... .it was heartbreaking to hear. She has a difficult time understanding things that should be obvious. I know she feels abandoned and it's a huge change but she had to of known one day he would get married and move on. He has the right to live his life the way he wants after all the years of helping her. 

Whenever we have had issues or problems we have tried to talk things out but have quickly learned that did not work out well. During these talks she shuts down and we end up leaving feeling worse then when we went in. She always has a good way of making us look like the "bad guys", again we know we have made mistakes and were unsure how to approach things after a while. We have said things we shouldn't have, but again, we had no clue she might have had BPD. In these conversations, my MIL says nothing and only agrees with what we say. She doesn't express how she feels and keeps all her emotions in. We ask her to please keep the conversions between the three of us only but she never does. When we leave she will then go and expresses her upset to my SIL, whom is young herself. We only have made ourselves look bad and we feel like bad people. But all we want is to be able to talk our issues out but we know we can't. We don't know how to deal with that. My MIL has also pinned my SIL against us and we have no clue how to handle that either. My SIL believes we are horrible people to her mom and have done terrible things.

My MIL is sweet to our faces but secretly dislikes us from afar. Over the past couple of months we have truly pulled away from her and although it has helped mine and my husbands relationship, it hasn't fixed anything. Every time we see her, we feel as though we need to accommodate to her needs in order to keep her "happy" and that only makes us unhappy all over again.

The most recent issues we have encountered is that she tends to take things out of context. About six months ago my husband and I had a conversation with my MIL. My husband asked if his mom could please give him some space and if she could please give him room to grow. He did say he still wanted to talk of course and did not want her out of his life but he just needed some room to breath since she was always giving him a hard time about not calling or texting her. We now understand it was not a good thing to say... .she has truly taken it to the extreme. You know where I am going with this. We feel so crappy because again, we look like the "bad guys" who, in her head, basically meant we want nothing to do with her... .even though that was not what he meant at all.

Our other issue is from our wedding... .My husbands father has remarried and his stepmom has been a part of his life for over 12 years now. She has watched him grow and become the man he is today. So, my husband wanted to do something nice and have a step-mom and step-son dance at our wedding. I thought it was a nice gesture and showed a lot of respect for his stepmom. If my MIL was remarried, she would want her daughter to do the same thing but since this is her son and not her daughter, it is perceived completely differently. We knew this dance was going to upset his mom, but again, I didn't want him to not do something just because it was going to upset his mom. Everything we do now upsets her, so what was the difference. So, when the announcement came for my husband and his stepmom to dance, his mother's face was not a happy one. We know she is extremely upset about it but again, she will never and wont say how it bothers her. She'll let is fester and eat at her. And we don't want to bring it up and talk about it with her because, from our past conversations, they don't end well. We found out how upset she was because his sister ended up telling us, "just so you know, a lot of people thought it was rude you danced with you stepmom"... .maybe one person said something but we know by now that after the wedding his mom most likely said how upset she was about it to his sister. This is just another thing against us. His sister then proceeded to ask us who thought of doing that dance and I knew right away his mother thought I told him to do it. It hurts she wont talk to us about it but know we can't make her talk about it.

Our newest dilemma is Thanksgiving, this is where my question comes in. Every year we invite her and my SIL to my families thanksgiving since her family lives a bit away. We want her there but after all these issues we have been having however, we have a lot of feelings of not wanting to invite her this year. But we don't know what to do. We haven't told her about it yet and she hasn't asked about it(a result of us asking her to give us space). We want my SIL there but we can't invite my SIL and not my MIL, plus if we do that it will look bad. If we don't tell my MIL and SIL about it, it will look bad. If we invite them, my MIL is happy but we are not. It is a true struggle. Do we invite them and just suck it up? Or do we not?

I apologize for such the long post and if you have read this far I truly appreciate it. We just have no clue what is "right" and if we should keep pulling away or if we swallow our pride and just keep tiptoeing around her. She doesn't know and doesn't think anything is wrong with her behavior. How do we have a conversation with her about our feelings? Is there any talking things out? Or do we learn how to live with the fact we will never be able to talk out our problems. We are thinking about the future but don't see a good one.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
-A lost soul

[Panda39]

Hi OneSided,

Welcome to the BPD Family 

You have found a great place for support, information, tools, ideas and conversation.  We are all here because we have someone in our lives with BPD or BPD Traits.  I'm here because of my significant other's (SO's) undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw).  Although, I can't diagnose anyone the behaviors you describe regarding your mother in law (MIL) sure do sound familiar.

When you have time you might want to read some of the posts of other members, it was shocking to me when I first arrived here how much we all have in common.

... .I truly love my Mother-in-law... .

I hear this, you wouldn't be looking for help with the situation if you didn't care about your MIL.

... .And to be honest it was a huge relief to be able to put a name to something I thought was all in my head... .I have read countless books and articles... .

I agree identifying the problem really helps, then researching it like you have done is also good... .getting a good grounding in what BPD is.  I did much the same when it came to my SO's ex.  All of what you have done so far will help you now that you've arrived here.

I know what you may be thinking, I have that typical mother-in-law, daughter-in-law relationship you see in a movie or book.

Actually, I don't think this I know others who have not experienced someone in their life with BPD might think this but I know there is more to it.  The dysfunction can be subtle sometimes so others don't always see it, and they may not see it due to lack of experience with it.

but it was all the small stuff that truly added up over the years to become the big stuff.

That's one thing about BPD it is most apparent to those closest to the person with BPD, so initially you likely didn't see the behaviors much and the longer you have been with your husband and the closer you have become with your MIL the more you see the dysfunctional behaviors.

My SO told me about his wife up front when we first started dating, I thought she sounded weird but just sort of put the information in my back pocket. Then the longer I was with him and the more I saw the things she was doing I found myself asking why? All the time why is she doing that, why is she not doing that?  I was in a state of Why? I was seeing more and more dysfunctional behaviors.

From the age of 8 she put my husband into the role of the "man of the house" and a father figure to his little sister. He's worked two jobs in high school because she asked him to and when he wanted to head to college my MIL ended up convincing him to stay home because she "couldn't live financially" if he left.

What you are describing here is Parentification... .when the child is put in the role of caretaker (in this case financially) of the parent.  In my situation my SO's ex put their oldest daughter in this role particularly during the divorce... .she was her mother's "best friend", emotional support, cook, and mother to her younger sister, totally inappropriate for a 15 year old.

More on Emotional Incest (Parentification is part of this)
https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

One memory I do remember, is when he dropped below part time in community college because he had to work two jobs to help his mom. I guess in his dad's and his mom's divorce agreement, it stated if my husband ended up dropping below part time in college, his dad no longer had to pay child support. My husband had no clue that was in the agreement. Needless to say he ended up getting an ear full. His mom was extremely upset because she felt as though he had done that on purpose just so she didn't get the money. She told him, "do you want me struggle like this", "do you enjoy seeing your mother like this", " I need that money to live"... .So, to please his mom, he went back to part time and worked those two jobs... .

First of all she is an adult and her financial security is not his responsibility and what I have bolded is what we call FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) or emotional blackmail.  As far as I'm concerned it is the number one weapon in the BPD person's arsenal. When you are feeling pressured to do something you don't want to do by someone with BPD look for the FOG.  I have found once you are better able to recognize the FOG for what it is... .a manipulative behavior it is easier to do what you need to do for you, and to not take some things as personally.

More on FOG... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

To see my sister-in-law now in college, it is the complete opposite of my husband. My MIL supported her decision to go away and live on campus, she doesn't have my SIL work two jobs to help make ends meet and basically lets her do everything she never let my husband do.

I completely understand your resentment here... .total double standard.

Ever since my husband and I have gotten more serious and now married, things with her have just escalated. She has told him straight out in one of their one-on-one talks that, "He has f*ck her ever since he met me", "As your mother I should always come first, your fiance comes second"... .it was heartbreaking to hear. She has a difficult time understanding things that should be obvious. I know she feels abandoned and it's a huge change but she had to of known one day he would get married and move on. He has the right to live his life the way he wants after all the years of helping her. 

You are right on the money here... .this is fear of abandonment and black and white thinking.  She is unable to see that your husband can love you and her, she can only see that your husband love you or her.  These are her issues, and it is not up to your husband to "prove" anything here, your job is to let her have her own feelings... .it may be uncomfortable for you to let her be uncomfortable but her feelings are hers, her behaviors are hers, here happiness is her responsibility.  The only people we truly control in this world is ourselves... .it it up to her to manage her feelings.

What I've bolded is more FOG... .Obligation - to her because she is his mother & Guilt for not doing what she wants him to do.

We ask her to please keep the conversions between the three of us only but she never does. When we leave she will then go and expresses her upset to my SIL, whom is young herself. We only have made ourselves look bad and we feel like bad people. But all we want is to be able to talk our issues out but we know we can't. We don't know how to deal with that. My MIL has also pinned my SIL against us and we have no clue how to handle that either. My SIL believes we are horrible people to her mom and have done terrible things.

Above is Triangulation, below is a link to more on the Karpman Triangle... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

Can you see how you are all on the triangle and how you each can play a different role depending on your perspective.

Every time we see her, we feel as though we need to accommodate to her needs in order to keep her "happy" and that only makes us unhappy all over again.

You are not responsible for her happiness.  I will also ask you is she ever actually happy? Satisfied? My guess is no... .her needs are a bottomless pit.  So if she is never happy no matter what you do for her, how about you do what you want to do for you and your husband instead.

Our newest dilemma is Thanksgiving, this is where my question comes in. Every year we invite her and my SIL to my families thanksgiving since her family lives a bit away. We want her there but after all these issues we have been having however, we have a lot of feelings of not wanting to invite her this year.

Darn those pesky holidays they can be difficult for everyone but when you throw someone in the mix with BPD it complicates things even more.

You're 2 days away from Thanksgiving, you haven't invited her yet, you haven't made a decision... .no one says to have to make a decision.  You and your husband have been invited to your family's Thanksgiving go and have a good time.  Your parents are the hosts not you, your MIL has not been invited and could have made her own plans at anytime whether she has or hasn't is up to her.

I'm really glad you've joined us, I know there is a lot that we can help you with.
I will be interested to hear about what you think of some of the material I have provided above.  Does it resonate?

Take care,
Panda39

[OneSided]

Thank you so much Panda39 for the response. It truly helps to hear from someone who is or are going through this. Like I have stated in my post, my family is great but they have a difficult time directing me because their advice doesn't work with her like they hope it will.

All your input about Thanksgiving is greatly appreciated! It helps to have reassurance because that is what we have talked about, just was not sure if this was the best choice or if it was the "wrong" thing to do. I am going to talk with my husband tonight about our final decision to not invite her to Thanksgiving. It's just a difficult decision at the moment because it is one we have never done or tried before. I know the consequences that come with making it, I just dislike the feeling I get when I know we will upset her. I don't want to push away my SIL or MIL, that is our biggest fear, however, we know at the moment that we can't control that. We hope one day things will be better.

Thank you again and the articles were such a huge help as well. Reading about the types of conversations and the triangle sounded all too familiar. My MIL constantly plays the victim and will sit there and say nothing, which makes us upset and it all escalates.

You're the best,
-OneSided
 

[Harri]

Hi and welcome to the board!  I see you got great information from Panda (she is pretty awesome).   

I know the consequences that come with making it, I just dislike the feeling I get when I know we will upset her. I don't want to push away my SIL or MIL, that is our biggest fear, however, we know at the moment that we can't control that. We hope one day things will be better.

I understand not want to upset your MIL.  Of course you don't but... .(!) what you have been trying so far is not working so well in that area plus it upset you and your husband.  So I think trying something new is a great idea.     The thing is, anything, even staying on the same course you usually take, will upset her.  So why not choose a way that will hopefully lead to lasting change for you and your husband? 

You are right that you can not control how she reacts to not being invited to Thanksgiving nor can you control anything else except for yourself.  I am not saying to deliberately upset her, but avoiding doing so... .how is that going?  (channeling my inner Dr Phil here)

Change is going to feel uncomfortable and you may even see an increase in your MILs behaviors.  Stay the course.  Keep reading and posting here as it can help a great deal. 

[Notwendy]

Your husband's college experience is similar to mine in the sense that my BPD mother controlled the money in our home, even though Dad earned it. I barely had enough to attend a state college and I also worked in college to pay for what I could ( fortunately Dad supported the family and I was not responsible for supporting Mom). My parents could have afforded college but my father went into debt spending for things Mom wanted. For the "Golden Child" sibling, they went all out, since Mom wanted it and my father took out loans to put GC though school.

Where the drama triangle comes to play here is that, the GC has a different relationship with BPD mom than I do. He feels more indebted to her in ways and is more enmeshed than I am. We are close, but I also know he would defer to her if ( when) I rocked the boat.
You have every right to choose to not invite your MIL to Thanksgiving, but it may be that if you invite SIL, she will not feel she can attend. If this were the case with me, my mother would pull GC to "her side". He would feel torn and in addition, would hear " and I paid for your tuition.  I sacrificed to put you through- you need to do this for me". She would also pull my father to "her side" in this way if I had boundaries with her.

This doesn't mean you don't have boundaries with your MIL. I think it is a good thing, but also be prepared for BPD mom to pull other family members, like your SIL to your side. You should have a peaceful Thanksgiving with your H, but also keep in mind it is just one day. If SIL feels she can't attend, then make plans with her to do something fun on another day without BPD mom.