Why are we staying "right now" in our relationship?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/science-theory-people-stay-unhappy-relationships-110231417.html

Mods... .move as needed.  I think this is most appropriate for conflicted because most of us are obviously staying "for now".

Many of us have been debating or trying things for a long time (me included).

There is an element of discussing the article to this, but really my hope is that I an others can distill down our "staying" (for now) decision into one or two sentences.  Furthermore, if there are "holes" in our theory of why we are "still here", I would hope we can figure out something to address or answer those questions over the next few months.

Then... we can either be "happier" or "more content" with our "staying for now" decision or perhaps things shift and we take a more serious look at other alternatives.

Thoughts?

I'll come back later today with my own thoughts about me and my relationship.  Something I'll ponder for most of the day
FF

[formflier]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/science-theory-people-stay-unhappy-relationships-110231417.html

Mods... .move as needed.  I think this is most appropriate for conflicted because most of us are obviously staying "for now".

Many of us have been debating or trying things for a long time (me included).

There is an element of discussing the article to this, but really my hope is that I an others can distill down our "staying" (for now) decision into one or two sentences.  Furthermore, if there are "holes" in our theory of why we are "still here", I would hope we can figure out something to address or answer those questions over the next few months.

Then... we can either be "happier" or "more content" with our "staying for now" decision or perhaps things shift and we take a more serious look at other alternatives.

Thoughts?

I'll come back later today with my own thoughts about me and my relationship.  Something I'll ponder for most of the day
FF

[Cat Familiar]

I stayed with my former husband because of our pets. We didn't have children but our pets were like our kids and I didn't want to break up the "family".

My current husband stayed with his ex because of the house, particularly the kitchen that they had remodeled with such attention to detail.

In both his case and mine, our exes were such flamingly nasty pieces of work that their feelings, though we did think about that, were not foremost in our minds. Finally what became apparent was saving our own lives and mental health.

[Notwendy]

There was a period in our marriage that was awful. My H painted me black. He wasn't home much and when he was, he wasn't  emotionally present. I tried to get him to spend time with me/us but he was so resentful when he did it that it just wasn't worth it so I let that idea go.

I stayed for the kids. I read the article, and the reason "staying because it would hurt the other person" didn't even occur to me. I wondered why he didn't leave if he was so unhappy with me. He didn't want to be married to me. He said he felt trapped. I didn't know why he didn't just leave. I don't think he would have cared if I did.

I stayed because, although he wasn't really with me, he wasn't around the  kids which made me the main parent. It was a good thing because he was so resentful at the time- I trusted him to not be hurtful to them, but felt it was best for them to have a parent who was able to be emotionally present for them and I am grateful I am able to be their parent. If we did do something as a family, I felt I was running interference- keeping everyone fed, calm, diapered, changed, so that he wasn't aggravated in front of them. It was a WOE experience.

In addition, the kids were showing signs of stress from the issues in our home.  Had there been a divorce- they would have been split between two households , encountered more stress, and it wouldn't have been good for them at the time. I was worried about the effect of our issues on the kids and wanted to make it less stressful for them.

The other reason I stayed is that, eventually he did have some insight to his behavior and began to make an effort to do better. He is great with the kids now. I didn't want to split my family up. There was also an absence of my big deal breakers: what are they? Addiction, cheating, and abuse to the children. There was none of that. There was verbal abuse to me but it stopped.

I was seriously co-dependent and worked on that. It changed the dynamics- he could have left if he didn't like it, but he has shown himself to be invested in the marriage. It isn't perfect, but it is workable and better than it was. 

[Fian]

I am staying because I made a vow until death do us part, and nothing has happened that would give me a Biblical justification for leaving. 

Incidentally, my wife's main reason for staying is her concern for me I think.  She doesn't think I would do well if we divorced.  She's right.

[AskingWhy]

I stayed with my former husband because of our pets. We didn't have children but our pets were like our kids and I didn't want to break up the "family".

My current husband stayed with his ex because of the house, particularly the kitchen that they had remodeled with such attention to detail.

In both his case and mine, our exes were such flamingly nasty pieces of work that their feelings, though we did think about that, were not foremost in our minds. Finally what became apparent was saving our own lives and mental health.

I think about the pets, too. When uBPD/uNPD H dysregulates, it terrifies them and they scatter to hide in the house.  The cats will not come out from under a bed for hours.

H is consumed with his children and grandchildren and won't be concerned enough to look after all of the pets.  Custody will also be an issue.  With a divorce, H would let me have the pets without hesitation because they would mean nothing to him.

This is a stark comparison to the way H acts with them now.  He takes the dogs for runs, snuggles the cats on his lap and dotes on all the pets.  Without a marriage, H would dump them all without a second thought.

I admit my H is making very, very small baby steps with his empathy.  I truly think he cares about me and the marriage, but when he splits--everything changes and he hates me and wants a divorce.  He will throw things, withhold affection and give the silent treatment, punch holes in walls and upend furniture.  A real Jekyll and Hyde.

I am staying for now because I know the issues and when H goes off the rails, I know he'll come around.  He is horribly insecure and my leaving would devastate him.  He would panic.  This would also look bad if I left because H wants to present a picture-perfect marriage to his children.  (H X W had an affair with a married man, then divorced H in order to marry her lover, taking all of the children.)

Deep down inside, H knows I am a good and moral person.  Considering what he went through with his X, I am sure he appreciates me.  

[Verbena]

I stayed for 34 years bc of fear—fear that I couldn’t make it on my own, fear of having to reveal to people how I lived, fear of dealing with the mess of leaving. I have been divorced just over two years, and it’s the greatest gift I ever gave myself.


I worked hard to heal from the abuse. After 18 months, I got back out there and almost immediately met a wonderful man. After seven months together, we are planning our future.

[GaGrl]

My DH stayed never initiated a divorce, even after his then-wife had moved out to live with her latest boyfriend. DH by then was depressed and beaten down, responsible for the teenagers (who wanted nothing to do with their mother at that time), and convinced he could not start a new relationship due to the STD she had left him with.

His next assignment was to be two years in the Central American jungles, and from there he would have gone to the Pentagon. He went Reserve rather than take the assignment, and said he knew it be left for two years, when he came back, either his then-wife or one of the teenagers would be dead. And he was serious.

So when DH and I reconnected in 2005 (teen crushes), he was still legally married with no relationship. It took about nine months to unravel that. After 14 years of separate lives, she wanted to be difficult about property.

[Cat Familiar]

Yay, Verbena! So glad you found love with a good, emotionally healthy man!

Cat

[AskingWhy]

I stayed for 34 years bc of fear—fear that I couldn’t make it on my own, fear of having to reveal to people how I lived, fear of dealing with the mess of leaving. I have been divorced just over two years, and it’s the greatest gift I ever gave myself.


I worked hard to heal from the abuse. After 18 months, I got back out there and almost immediately met a wonderful man. After seven months together, we are planning our future.

Verbena, what a tale with a great ending.  It's wonderful to look back and see where we have been, and how we have moved on into a positive direction.

[GaGrl]

Yay, Verbena! So glad you found love with a good, emotionally healthy man!

Cat

Outstanding! It was 33 years total for my DH, and the healing was transforming.

[Red5]

Hmmm, let me pour another mason jar of boxed merlot, I’ll get back to y’all in a minute... .so why do I stay... .this is my second marriage so I should know better eh’... .basically it’s due to FOG... .heavy on the “O” and the “G”... .

Red5 needs to get some rack time... .as you were !

Red/4.5 

[SweetCharlotte]

Fun activity for this board — thanks, FF.

I am only staying right now in the sense that I haven't asked him for a divorce. I'm truly undecided . . . can't move this way or that way.

He pulled one of his breakups on me 3 weeks ago, when he was on a train to see me. Because of a text I sent accusing him of being obsessed with my D15, he got off the train and went back home in the other direction (we have a 9-year commuter marriage, with no kids in common). It was the second time he broke up with me in 2 weeks—this means disconnecting from me on social media and Find My Friends, canceling my joint subscription to his subscriptions, blocking my texts and calls. After a few days, he starts sending "Love you!" texts, and I'm supposed to forget it ever happened, and accept his requests for reconnection.

This time I haven't felt like welcoming him back. I'm fed up. Nothing can be discussed, because he always hangs up when he doesn't want to discuss something any further. And how can I allow him in my home when he broke up with me rather than deny that he has inappropriate feelings for my D15 (who hates him, by the way)?

So I either haven't had time for the crisis to blow over, when missing him overcomes my hurt feelings from the rejection & abandonment, or I haven't developed the resolve to tell him it's really over this time, and begin the divorce process. This marriage meant a lot to me; I thought he was the love of my life, and that we would grow old together.

In the meantime, there's the risk that he could actually move on, since we aren't in touch, and make the decision for me. I'm using the time to try to quit drinking again (I'm a "functional alcoholic," but should not drink at all), so no mason jars of merlot for me, Red5.

[Red5]

Ok, time for the obligatory highjack…  

Back in the day… being a senior E-8; a Master Sergeant and division chief in the squadron, one of the things that I was often tasked to do, by the squadron Sergeant Major… because he did not like doing it, or he was on another “command issue”, was to go down to the Craven County courthouse, and collect young a Marine, or a group of Marines who had been arrested, and thusly put into the county jail for the weekend, or else short sentences, for a wide variety of infractions, ie’ getting “lit” and arrested at the local slop-chute, or disorderly conduct in public, or’ “so forth and so on”… Usually happened on a Monday morning, following a long weekend and payday.

So one such day, there I was, in my “Service Charlie's”… looking all spiffy in my spit shined black leather dress shoes, heavily starched khaki shirt, pressed out service “alpha” trousers, all bedecked out in my chevrons and ribbons… “AJ” squared away!… yeah, there I sat… “ridding the pine” down at the courthouse in New Bern, waiting for a certain Private First Class (PFC E-2) to come up on the court docket… and out from the jail out back… so I could collect him from the bailiff, and take him back to Cherry Point to incur the wrath of his Gunnery Sergeant, and the Sergeant Major... .

As this suspect Marine was pretty far down on the bailiff’s list, I was myself sentenced to sit through about a dozen or so (before lunch) folks that were there to “fight” speeding tickets, summons, and other types of “uniform citation” type offences… ie’ “throwing themselves on the mercy of the court”…  .

Quite entertaining!

After lunch, the docket was filled with “more serious” offences before the court… there was one that I remember vividly to this day… a young woman was escorted out from the back (jail) by the bailiff… and was posted in front of the Judge, and she was soon joined there by her court appointed lawyer… I quickly surmised that she had stood there a few times before…

So the judge bid her “good afternoon”, and called her by her first name (I’ll call her “Betty”)… and he smiled at her, and so did she… and the judge said to Betty, “now Betty, your back in my court again… now tell me; what happened between you and your husband” (he was not there in the courtroom)… Betty responded… “your Honor, he come home drunk again, and commenced to start whoopin up on me… again your Honor, I warned him to STOP… but he didn’t… so as we was both a standin there in the kitchen, I grabs me a knife, and I stabs him right in his chest!”…

The judge did not say anything for almost thirty seconds, he just shuffled his papers, and seemed to be writing something… finally, he says, “now Betty, this ain’t the first time you and (I’ll call him Earl) Earl have gotten in a physical altercation and had the Sherriff have to come round to your house and thusly have to haul one of you, or both of you off to our jail, now is it”… Betty responded, “no sir your Honor, it ain’t”… The judge smiled again, and said… “now Betty, how many times have you stabbed your husband?”… Betty smiled too, and she said, “I don’t recollect judge… er, uh… your Honor… maybe I stab him at least five or six times since we married”…

The judge looked back down at his papers for a moment, and then he asked her lawyer, “is this true”… (we’ll call the lawyer Parry)… “this true Parry?”… Parry responds… “I am afraid so your Honor… at least five times over about the same amount of years”… By now, the “peanut gallery” is starting to elicit subdued laughter, as Betty, the judge, and Parry her lawyer are all smiling… Betty even covers her mouth and giggles a little…

So the judge asks her… “now Betty, don’t you love Earl?… and tell me darlin; why I should not charge you with attempted murder, instead of misdemeanor assault”… He continues… “do you understand what the difference is between a misdemeanor crime, and a felony Betty”… She responds… “no Sir your Honor, I don’t”… so the judge asks her, “Betty… did you mean to kill Earl?”… she responds… “NO SIR you Honor, I loves him with all’s my heart!”…

So the judge picks up one of the papers… and starts reading… “Betty, it says here that on the night of XXXX, the Sherriff responded to a domestic call at your address, and when they came into your living room, they found Earl, your husband of XX years, sprawled out in a chair with a bleeding chest wound, and he was as drunk as a skunk, and you were standing there in the kitchen with a knife in your hand… so I have to ask you a question Betty; and I want you to be sure to answer me the truth now”… “what kind of knife was it”… Betty responded, “it was a steak knife your Honor”…

By now the entire courtroom is about to burst into laughter… Yeah,

The judges eyes got wide, he took off his reading glasses, and said… “ a STEAK KNIFE Betty ?”…

And right about then, and finally, her court appointed lawyer, “Parry” finally spoke up in her defense, and he says… “but your Honor, it was only a misdemeanor steak knife”…

The court room then exploded into laughter, even the judge was laughing… It went on for about a minute, until the judge silenced the room with his gavel…

The judge then pronounced the sentence, and Betty got another thirty days in the county jail for stabbing her husband Earl with a “misdemeanor steak knife”  !

~>

Mason jars… I cut up a lemon, or a lime, as I don’t want to be “scurvy dog”

I put it into the mason jar, then I add ice, and then I pour in the merlot, about up to the lower rim, and then I add some Seagram’s Ginger ale… mmm good  

I too have had a long relationship with alcohol… as I am part Blackfeet Indian, via dear old Dad (long story, but a good one!)… I often speak to my “inner Indian” when I think about it; to justify my alcoholism to myself,  … and there certainly are a lot of voices in my head!

Secure from highjack  

Ya'll have a nice day !  

Red5

[Enabler]

Do you drink to numb, drink to forget, drink to be less inhibited or just drink because you like the taste?

I drink when I'm relaxed, I don't drink to relax, and I hate the feeling of being drunk... .but I get that from my Tea-totaling mother...  

[Red5]

Do you drink to numb, drink to forget, drink to be less inhibited or just drink because you like the taste?

I drink when I'm relaxed, I don't drink to relax, and I hate the feeling of being drunk... .but I get that from my Tea-totaling mother...  

To be honest, I think... .that I sip wine from my mason jar to "take the edge off".
*After work-
*During dinner-
*Late at night after everyone's gone to bed-

Caveat, .sometimes I fill my mason jar with 2% milk for supper,  

That said... .back during the post "godzilla garden rampage event" time frame... .when udx wife came at me, cornered me... .to "discuss', ie' an attempt to validate her behavior to me... .during her D33's visit back in August(?), during the "cornered" discussion by her in the kitchen; I was so distraught, and in the flight/fight in that moment, that I poured myself a rum and coke in a tumbler (on the rocks strong) to take the razors edge off... .matter of fact, as I think about it now, I had two tumblers of "captain & coke"... .yeah, wow ; (

So I,
*drink to numb,
*drink to forget/self sooth (?),
*drink to be less inhibited (yes, sometimes),
*drink because I like the taste? (yes, a beer (Bud~Weiser) after heavy yard work),

As far as getting, or being drunk, as a long time abuser (fun?) of alcohol, I know the zones, and I have to say that I do enjoy the first, and second phase of the drink/buzz/inebriated progression, like out with the boys back in the day, celebrations, and the like, but I don't like being crawling in the shower drunk... .no, that's taking it too far.

The razors edge, I can feel when the effect of the drink has taken hold, and I do like that feeling, but it is not sustainable, and its dangerous... .the trick is to know when to throttle back, and not go further, .yeah, .spoken like a true alcoholic (?)... ."I can control it"... .hmmm,

The time is very rare in my daily life that I am not under some kind of responsibility, ie' "on duty".

What does Colombo, and Barney Fife say... ."I'm on duty, none for me"... .

And I have many times as I recall, over my lifetime, .remember that I have reached for the drink because I was emotionally distraught, ie' wife was stepping out, or I was in some type of trouble in life... .this is alcohol abuse, because I would drink till beyond drunk, ie' numb, no loner feeling, trying to escape for a little a while... .which is quite destructive.

I don't do this anymore... .

Broad subject here, .maybe a good thread to start !

... .entitled, does your pw/BPD drive you to drinking?... .or... .Has your R/S with pw/BPD pushed you towards alcohol abuse?

... .or, .Do you the Non, use alcohol to cope with staying in your R/S with pw/BPD?

Hmmm,

Red5

[Enabler]

Thought I’d ask buddy, is brits only seem to use the word alcoholic or alcoholism if on a almost daily basis we drink so much we can’t remember stuff and pass out on the sofa. So... .in Brit terms you’re probably pretty dang sober.

When the kids are revving me up, I don’t even think of reaching for a gin, once the storm has passed and  safely watching the TV, I’ll be gnt in hand, and like a beer after manual labour, it tastes so much better.

I guess what I’m saying is alcoholism has different benchmarks across the globe. The UKs bar is very high... .which causes its problems and allows people who use it as a crutch to go unnoticed. My W tales a bottle of prossecco to almost any event... .and that’s okay... .

[SweetCharlotte]

I guess what I’m saying is alcoholism has different benchmarks across the globe. The UKs bar is very high... .which causes its problems and allows people who use it as a crutch to go unnoticed.

There are medical definitions of addiction/alcoholism that are not so culturally relative. In case some of us haven't seen the criteria, they go something like:

You may be an alcoholic if you have ever... .
tried to cut back and had a hard time.
tried to quit and could not.
been told by friends or family that one drinks too much.
had a blackout.
found one's work life affected by one's drinking.
found one's family/personal life affected by one's drinking.
had trouble with the Law while drinking.
felt the need to hide how much one is drinking.
Or if you
regularly consume more than 2 drinks (men) or more than one drink (women) per day.

Personally, I can check a lot of those boxes, especially the last one. Unless I'm totally sober, I'm going to have the equivalent of three or four bottles of beer or glasses of wine per night.
So even though I'm rarely "drunk," I know that medically in any country (even Ireland) I could be diagnosed with alcoholism, and that it's hurting me longterm to drink.

At least while I'm Undecided and not in touch with my pwBPD, I can work on this problem. Often I kick the habit and get a few weeks of sobriety under my belt, but some stress related to the r/s sends me back to the bottle again.

In addition to the alternatives listed by Red5 as reasons we nons drink, there's also this one:
The r/s with the pwBPD gives us excuses to drink, and as alcoholics we are looking for excuses.

[GaGrl]

My DH is not much of a drinker... .never more than a few beers or glasses of wine at a time. He went through the years of marriage to his uNPD/BPD ex COLD SOBER.   Wow.  I would have been three sheets to the wind, trying to deal with The Dark Princess.

Interestingly, of their three children, none of them are more than social drinkers - maybe a couple of drinks on a big social occasion. Same with my bio son, for which I'm grateful.

But one of DH's painful and angry memories is when his ex had such a bad hangover that she couldn't get up and participate in a skate party for one of the kid's birthday. DH handled it all, and Mom never showed. DH just reached a level of detachment at that point from which he never recovered.

Maybe that's how it happens - death by a thousand cuts, with milestones along the way.

[Enabler]

I am still in my home (although debatable whether or not I have a marriage to be in or not), because it's not my job leave. For the most part it seems I have hurt her with my invalidation and fronting up to her more than she could ever hurt me with her false accusations, passive aggressive behaviour, silent treatment and general knit-picking about everything and anything.

I believe I am dynamic enough to make it work if her emotional boat were to ever turn and allow it. Those who didn't choose to have us as parents deserve us... .me... .to do EVERYTHING possible to make it work and provide a stable platform to grow... .and hopefully break the family cycle which is 3 generations old now.

[silencedPartner]

I stayed for 34 years bc of fear—fear that I couldn’t make it on my own, fear of having to reveal to people how I lived, fear of dealing with the mess of leaving. I have been divorced just over two years, and it’s the greatest gift I ever gave myself.


I worked hard to heal from the abuse. After 18 months, I got back out there and almost immediately met a wonderful man. After seven months together, we are planning our future.

What did you do to overcome your fear? I am suffering from the same thing. I am terrified of being alone, being a single father, being a failure, failing to stand with my sick spouse.

I keep on thinking: Everybody says "mental illness is just like cancer" well what if I left my wife who was in the hospital because of cancer, what would that say about me?

[5min]

I've stayed some out of obligation and guilt, but mostly to get my step daughter off to college.