Is food a trigger for anyone?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I have to vent. My H gets crazy over anything I cook or prepare. My H will not cook, or learn to cook, and if he had his way, I would put everything he eats on a plate for him. If I cook a meal and he wants to eat later, he wants me to put it on a plate, microwave it for him and serve it to him. If I ask him to do it, he acts helpless and asks me how. He's a grown man, great at his job, and knows how to scoop food out, put it on his plate, and microwave it. He just wants me to do it- even if I am busy as I usually am as I also do all the clean up- washing dishes, etc, after the meal.

If I am cooking or eating something, he wants it- even if he isn't hungry. Sometimes he'll eat so much of it, there isn't much for me. He's gotten triggered if I fix something special for the kids, and he isn't around. Once there was a special on steaks and I had extra, fixed one for lunch and he raged because we ate steak and he wasn't home ,even if there was plenty left for dinner when he would be there.

We can thankfully afford food and he doesn't go hungry. If anyone of us blows the food budget, it is him. He doesn't seem to be able to contain himself around food at the store either. Fortunately, he is not overweight, he just is able to eat a lot. Last weekend, and the holiday was particularly aggravating for me a I had cooked a lot of food, and I could tell he was wound up around it and that rattles me.

What is aggravating is that I had bought something as a gift, and he didn't ask me before he opened it to check it out. Didn't eat it, just opened it and now I can't use it as a gift. I know he's not going to eat it unless I prepare it and serve it to him ,as it isn't something he can just grab on his own. It wasn't expensive, but now I have to go through the effort to get a new gift.

He also has his own stash of food that is his. I suggested that as he gets angry if someone eats "his" food. We're a family and I don't keep track of what the kids eat and think it is "my" food. He has his own food that nobody gets into.

I know this is a relatively minor issue compared to some big ones. Certainly not a deal breaker but it is crazy making around the holidays. I also don't mind being the main cook in the family. I like my cooking, but I wish he were emotionally capable of fixing something for himself.  It's an emotional thing and when he is left to do this, he feels unloved and if I am mistreating him. I often hear " you don't cook for me" if I don't cook which isn't true as I do cook a lot.

[Notwendy]

I have to vent. My H gets crazy over anything I cook or prepare. My H will not cook, or learn to cook, and if he had his way, I would put everything he eats on a plate for him. If I cook a meal and he wants to eat later, he wants me to put it on a plate, microwave it for him and serve it to him. If I ask him to do it, he acts helpless and asks me how. He's a grown man, great at his job, and knows how to scoop food out, put it on his plate, and microwave it. He just wants me to do it- even if I am busy as I usually am as I also do all the clean up- washing dishes, etc, after the meal.

If I am cooking or eating something, he wants it- even if he isn't hungry. Sometimes he'll eat so much of it, there isn't much for me. He's gotten triggered if I fix something special for the kids, and he isn't around. Once there was a special on steaks and I had extra, fixed one for lunch and he raged because we ate steak and he wasn't home ,even if there was plenty left for dinner when he would be there.

We can thankfully afford food and he doesn't go hungry. If anyone of us blows the food budget, it is him. He doesn't seem to be able to contain himself around food at the store either. Fortunately, he is not overweight, he just is able to eat a lot. Last weekend, and the holiday was particularly aggravating for me a I had cooked a lot of food, and I could tell he was wound up around it and that rattles me.

What is aggravating is that I had bought something as a gift, and he didn't ask me before he opened it to check it out. Didn't eat it, just opened it and now I can't use it as a gift. I know he's not going to eat it unless I prepare it and serve it to him ,as it isn't something he can just grab on his own. It wasn't expensive, but now I have to go through the effort to get a new gift.

He also has his own stash of food that is his. I suggested that as he gets angry if someone eats "his" food. We're a family and I don't keep track of what the kids eat and think it is "my" food. He has his own food that nobody gets into.

I know this is a relatively minor issue compared to some big ones. Certainly not a deal breaker but it is crazy making around the holidays. I also don't mind being the main cook in the family. I like my cooking, but I wish he were emotionally capable of fixing something for himself.  It's an emotional thing and when he is left to do this, he feels unloved and if I am mistreating him. I often hear " you don't cook for me" if I don't cook which isn't true as I do cook a lot.

[Red5]

My H will not cook, or learn to cook, and if he had his way, I would put everything he eats on a plate for him. If I cook a meal and he wants to eat later, he wants me to put it on a plate, microwave it for him and serve it to him. If I ask him to do it, he acts helpless and asks me how

Wow!... .just wow... .

I cannot even imagine, .I learned to “cook” before I was six... .

Scrambled eggs was the first thing I learned to make : )

This “thing” must be from your ‘H’s’ childhood... .

I can still hear my Grandmother telling me... .“better learn to fry an egg boy, you might have to “hoof it on your own” one day”... .

Wow... .

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, we have food issues here too, though not as extreme as what you're dealing with, Notwendy.

We have a very different relationship to food. I tend to be much more active than him and I eat whenever I'm hungry, not according to the clock. He is sedentary, needs to eat three meals regularly and they must be on a regular timetable.

His patterns made sense when he was working. But he rigidly held onto them even when he took an early retirement. If he doesn't get lunch close to 12, he starts getting irritable. And this is still true even when he sleeps late after drinking a lot and eats breakfast! Fortunately he makes his own breakfasts and lunches, except when we have a special weekend breakfast together.

I'm very boring about what I eat for breakfast. Usually cereal and milk or oatmeal in the winter. In the summer, it's often yogurt and fruit from the orchard. And for lunch, I find leftovers are perfect. If we don't have any leftovers, lunch for me might be a rice cracker with almond butter.

We used to have lot of arguments about food. When he worked, I often made dinner or we'd go out. We still go out fairly regularly. But the pattern that began to happen after he retired was that he'd spend all day in his studio, reading or watching TV. I'd be outside working on the property and I'd come in, dirty and tired, with the idea of grabbing a snack about 4:30, with my next task feeding the horses, goats and sheep.

He'd look at me and ask, "What are we doing tonight?" That was code for "What are you making for dinner?" My internal dialog would be, "How the f* do I know? I haven't thought about it yet and I still have chores and what keeps you from making dinner?"

I would say, "I'm thinking about it. I'll let you know what ideas I come up with."

The problem was that because I'm more of a vegetarian, my ideas weren't filling enough for him. I'd suggest something like brown rice and veggies from the garden with some cheese, tofu or smoked salmon and he'd say, "I need real food, meaning something with a lot of meat." He wasn't always this rude, but it was enough to make me passively aggressive on some warm evenings and say, "I'm making smoothies."

This was a summation of our interaction at its worst. Previously I had made some rather elaborate meals and I even bought organic meat, which I hadn't eaten for years, just to please him. I realized that I didn't mind eating meat as long as it was without hormones and antibiotics and preferably grass fed. We live in an area where there are a lot of local ranchers, so getting meat like this is easy.

But then, I'd buy steaks at the farmer's market or at the grocery store and he'd not be happy with them. "They're cut unevenly. How can I barbecue them if one side is a half inch thicker?" So I quit doing that, but I told him that he could buy meat himself, but if it wasn't hormone and antibiotic-free, I wasn't eating it, so he could just cook it for himself. But that irritated him. He wouldn't just barbecue for himself, even though I'd be fine just eating a salad.

This was an issue we brought up in couple's therapy and our psychologist suggested that we both just cook for ourselves. Well that didn't work. But recently, we started ordering meals from Sunbasket, a meal delivery service that uses organic ingredients.

We get three meals a week, and they've ranged from fabulous to OK, and only one or two have been marginal. We collaborate on choosing them, then cook them together, which has made things a lot better for me.

I was really resentful for all the time I spent cooking, cleaning and he could barely even bring his plate to the sink after dinner. Now I'm the prep cook, he does the cooking (amazing!), and we collaborate on the cleaning. It's a miracle!

[Notwendy]

His ( enabling ) Mama did it all.  My FIL didn't even put a piece of meat between two slices of bread for himself. My H can scramble an egg but he prefers I do it. He would rather go hungry and wait for me to cook something than fix it himself.

He's an educated man. We met in college and he knew I was willing to do most of the work with home and kids, but did not want to be like his Mama. Yet, emotionally this is what he wants and it was a power struggle to try to change that.

My kids can fend for themselves in the house- cook, laundry, everything.

[Notwendy]

I was really resentful for all the time I spent cooking, cleaning and he could barely even bring his plate to the sink after dinner. Now I'm the prep cook, he does the cooking (amazing!), and we collaborate on the cleaning. It's a miracle!

That would be a shock to see in my house! I've said Cat, if I didn't know better, we are married to the same man!  I am also the more diet conscious- lots of veggies. fruit, yogurt. For my H, it's got to have meat. I was making a veggie dish for the kids ( which he won't eat) and he insisted I make one without veggies for him. So I made a cheese dish. No, it had to have meat. He went on and on about it until I made a special one for him too with meat. It's not like that was the only thing at the meal- there was plenty of meat for him without it.

It's not even an argument- there is no taking this on as it seems to be an emotional need. He isn't starving for food. It just gets aggravating, especially during a holiday. Substitute your chores with the animals for my tasks with the  kids, and yes, I could be driving carpool, helping with homework, and starting dinner was my job, even on weekends when everyone is home.

We did therapy and it was the MC who told me not to cook so much. I was actually afraid to not cook as it would lead to melt downs and anger outbursts over it. But since she said it, I have done it and he fends for himself sometimes but I can tell he is bothered by it.

I feel like I took care of  the kids when they were little, but they have gotten older and are very self sufficient. I still cook family meals as I think it is a good idea to have them, for family unity, but not because they can't or won't do it themselves. With my H it feels different.

[Cat Familiar]

You're far too nice, Notwendy. What happens if you get the flu and you're too sick to get out of bed? Would he bring you food?

I know this pattern has gone on for a long time, but if I were in your shoes, I'd change it, fast. I find that if I'm resentful, the relationship will continue to deteriorate, so I need to bring things front and center, knowing that it will likely get ugly. But I need to do that and establish a hard boundary while I'm calm and centered, before I become even more angry.

"If you don't serve yourself food and microwave it, then you don't eat. I'm busy doing other things."

Nowadays I can do this without feeling guilt. Before I was so conditioned to accepting that I was "selfish" but now my internal dialog will remind me to think of him this way: "You're an adult, you can behave like one, and if you don't like it, too bad." Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

[Cat Familiar]

I know you work too, Notwendy. It's just incredibly entitled for him to think of himself as not having any responsibilities about feeding himself. I don't know the ages of your children, but at some point you two will be empty nesters and then he will retire.

How do you imagine dealing with him when he's home all the time and still expecting to be waited upon?

[Notwendy]

Cat, In the beginning of my marriage, I don't think he would bring me food. Now, I hope I never need him to, but he would probably do it  but only if there was no way I could do it.

I have worked on changing this and he does fend for himself if he has to. Yet during holidays it feels as if he turns into a little kid when it comes to the cooking and food. I am going to do the holiday meals as it is important to me to do this with the kids, but I do feel irritated and resentful at the emotional food frenzy.

He has little insight into this behavior, and I don't get it.

As you can imagine, I've been fending for myself since childhood as BPD mom didn't cook much either so I can not connect with the emotional attachment/trigger to someone fixing me food.

[Notwendy]

Cat, one of the perks of working is that he has to fend for himself when I am there and sometimes it is over dinner time.

He is the chief wage earner. He has always expressed that he would feel resentful if he had to take on the domestic duties. I think his emotional example is his parents. His Mama did it all and anything less than that feels like neglect to him. When he retires he has plenty of hobbies that will keep him busy and out of the house.

It isn't the cooking that bothers me as much as the emotional strings attached to his behavior. I hope that makes sense. Diet wise, I prefer to cook as I make very healthy meals and he would not do that if he cooked.

I am more and more letting him fend for himself but he doesn't like it. Holidays are rough spots though. It is hard to shake the sense of obligation since he does support us. My role model - BPD mom who did nothing in the house is not my goal. I still like to cook, but I not be emotionally caretaking. My mother is extreme in one direction, and his is extreme in the other. Somewhere in between would be OK.

[Cat Familiar]

I get that you don't mind the cooking as you can make things that are healthy and that he wouldn't do that. And that he is having to be somewhat responsible for his own nutrition when you're not home.

So what bothers you is the entitlement and whining?

[Notwendy]

The emotional reaction. It almost feels like OCD. It's hard to explain but if I do anything with food he has to eat it. Even opening a food gift I ordered ( for someone else ). It's like something comes over him. And the opposite if I don't fix food he feels deprived in some way. This behavior doesn't have anything to do with hungry.

If people are eating in front of me and I am not hungry, I just ignore it.

I am overly sensitive to people's emotions and it just feels unsettling.

[Cat Familiar]

Ideally, this seems like it would be a great topic for him to explore in therapy. Would he? Doubtful at best. I don't imagine he'd ever think that doing individual therapy would be productive--just a waste of time for him. (I'm guessing.)

My husband is like that with alcohol. Any bottle of alcohol needs to be opened.

I can see how unsettling that would be and how weird that he would choose to eat your food and not leave you much, even when he wasn't hungry.

I guess I'm not as compassionate or sympathetic as you, Notwendy, but I'd be like, "Hey Dude, this is my dinner! Get your hands off my plate!"

[Notwendy]

Lol, I have learned to take my portion first and either eat it first or save it in the fridge for later.  If he walks in the kitchen when I am cooking though, I feel I have to protect my portion.

Maybe it's like alcohol to your H. My H doesn't drink too much, but he seems to lose control around food. Lucky for him he has a good metabolism.

I think what feels triggering is anything that is like emotional caretaking. I feel I have done so much of that with him and BPD mom, I'm sensitive to it.

I do think therapy would help but he has no interest in it. He did do MC with me when he feared his marriage was really in trouble ( it was ). A lot of it was for show ( see I did it) as he really didn't think he needed it. It was a wise MC who focused on me- but indirectly touched on some of his issues. It did make a difference.

Now, thankfully we are not in crisis but the recent holiday brought up the food thing.

[Notwendy]

Just wondered if anyone has an explanation for this. We've talked about it but he doesn't have any insight to it. I can't relate to it as I didn't have a mother who cooked or fixed holiday meals and it was something I wanted to have. One reason I do it is so my kids can have this experience.

He wasn't deprived of mom cooking and taking care of him. It was probably overly done. I always thought the extent she waited on his father was too much.

[Cat Familiar]

IDK about your husband, but I've got an idea why my husband was previously "allergic" to cooking and household tasks.

Similar to your husband, Notwendy, he had a mother who did everything! And he also had a very arrogant, nasty, but brilliant, NPD father. My husband asked his mother to teach him how to cook when he was younger, or so he said, but that was not approved of--probably mostly because his dad vetoed it.

Because my husband was reportedly very sensitive as a young boy, really liked classical music and appreciated art, I believe his father was afraid he was going to "turn gay". As a matter of fact, that was the stated reason, when he and his parents lived in England, that his father prevented him from singing in a boy's chorus.

Though his dad wasn't a "manly man" he was very intellectual and cold. I think he appreciated the arts from a perspective that it was appropriate for a wealthy man to do so, but his son was overwhelmed by emotion,  appreciating art forms, visual, dance and music. It just would not have been tolerated by this unpleasant and highly critical man, should his son have been gay, so anything that was considered "feminine" was not approved of. Therefore learning to cook was a definite "NO!"

[Notwendy]

Cat- that is interesting as my H also rejects being asked to do anything he considers to be woman's work and probably looks to his mother as an example of what that is. So not only was cooking off limits - so is doing dishes, changing diapers ( having anything to do with the care of a young child, house cleaning, sewing - you get the picture). We had huge issues with this in the beginning as we both were working full time and he still had the divisions. Having children sealed the deal on this end as I became a full time mom. I wanted to take care of the kids- and I also preferred that he didn't as he didn't have the temperament for it- and I wanted to protect him. The issues in our marriage came out full force when the babies were little and I was not in a good  position to leave and didn't want to break the family up. We have since been able to work on things enough that we aren't in that situation.

I know he is a straight man, but I've always wondered if the no woman's work was somehow tied into his identity as a man. His Dad was distant, critical and super manly. He would also be quick to cut down anything my H might do that seemed "soft hearted" or weak according to his father.

My H seems to not be able to access any real tender feelings. I suspect Dad barked them down now right away. I don't know if his father was NPD or not, but I suspect his son, my H, had to do what his father thought were man things. There is no way he would have had his mother teach him to cook in front of Dad. I don't think he even wanted to learn and to this day, has a big aversion to it. He will use the grill, but that's a man thing. I also know one reason for my MIL's caretaking behavior is that my FIL was prone to raging. Few people saw it though as MIL catered to him constantly. My H doesn't seem aware of his parents issues because they were well controlled, not like in my FOO with mom raging.

I have a hard time comprehending this. I know I am a female and nothing I do will change my identity as one. I can grill, take out the trash, play sports- I am still a female and never questioned that.

I think he needs me to act like his mom so he can feel manly like his Dad. The problem is, I love being a mom to my kids, but I don't want to act like I am my husband's mom. I think that my strong emotional caretaking skills were an attraction to my H, but it doesn't feel right to me now to emotionally caretake an adult.

[Fie]

Hello Notwendy 

Do you think that for your H, food is / has been a symbol / substitue for love ?
And the one who serves him food (his mum / you) loves him - and if she doesn't, rejects him ?

Fie

[Notwendy]

His mother was very stoic and food is love in his family. It's hard for me to relate to as it wasn't in mine.

I think you are right on with - he feels loved if he is served and rejected if he is not.

Yet, somehow it doesn't bring out loving feelings in me. When the kids were little, I'd be fixing their plates and trying to get them to settle for dinner. My H would just sit there like the little kids waiting for me to fix his plate and serve him too. Then as soon as he got his food he would dig in and eat, while I fed the kids. He didn't even wait for me or seem to notice.

I got into the habit of eating first, while I was cooking so I wouldn't be hungry while helping the little kids with their dinner. H just sat and ate, seemingly oblivious to the other activity in the kitchen.

I can understand enjoying the love/food but the rejection part was hard to understand. Yes, he would rage if I was busy with the kids. It had nothing to do with how I felt about him. When the MC told me to stop cooking and let him rage I was terrified. He has gotten better with this.

[Fie]

Hmm.  Is there a middle way here ?

Like, 'I love you very much and I like to cook for you. Therefor I will cook for you in the weekends / on day X'  (you could add 'cook extra special', etc)

'Unfortunately, on the rest of the days, there is less time, so I will need your input.'

Then repeat, 'and because I love you so much, I will cook on day X'

It's called the sandwich method : start with something positive, the 'negative' message is inside, and you close with the positive one.

I can very much relate to the not wanting to be his mum.

Do you see yourself doing this ?

[Notwendy]

I like the sandwich method- thanks.

It's taken some work to fall out of the habits we got into in the early years of marriage. The good has outweighed the difficult and I am glad to not be dealing with the severity of BPD mom. I didn't expect to see the behaviors we dealt with from a high functioning person. I admit to doing a lot of cooking to keep the peace over the years and out of necessity to feed the family, but the emotional baggage around that has been a source of resentment for me.

[defogging]

I'll throw in my $.02 here because cooking and food is an issue in our house too, though not in the same way.  My uBPDw has major issues with time management and always "needs help" getting things accomplished.  Over the years it has turned into me doing 90% of the cooking and grocery shopping.

Years ago I took it on because she would never get around to it and be too busy with other things to make dinner.  I like to get home from work, eat, then get on with the evening so I got tired of waiting on her.  It evolved into her getting mad if dinner wasn't made when she got home from work, or she gets mad if she gets home with the kids at 7:00 and I don't have another meal made for them after I've already eaten.  To add to that, I always make the wrong thing.  Not enough vegetables for the kids, or the wrong kind of vegetable, and she has suddenly become a vegetarian out of convenience and claims that she only eats salads for health reasons.  However, she also loves to bake pastry goods for other people and eat a lot of those.

For reference, I'm a hunter and like to eat wild game.  She used to enjoy it with me, now hunting is bad and she tells the kids that dad is bad for eating animals (never mind that she eats chicken and fish still). 

I'm not sure what to do with it all, the kids like what I make and I'll usually make dinner for them so they don't have to deal with her being mad about having to cook.  There is no way to make her happy though.  Usually I just make whatever meat I'm cooking (and I do make chicken and fish), and tell her she can add that to a salad or however she would like to have it.  Usually she'll sit there eating dry spinach leaves and act like she's being neglected.  Lately, I've realized it's okay for me to be busy too (which I am), so sometimes I'll tell her I didn't have time to make dinner twice and hopefully she can get the kids some food while I run errands. 

Grocery shopping - I go every weekend, because she is "too busy".  If she does go, she usually gets about half of what I wrote down, even the staples we use every week.  And then acts like she should get an award for doing the grocery shopping.  Then I get questioned about why I'm going when she just went.  "Ummm... .you didn't get eggs, bananas, yogurt... .you know, the things we use on a daily basis".

Your situation sounds to me like what the others posted above, he feels like he is cared for if you are giving food to him.  Like I said, my situation is a little different.  To me it feels somewhat the same in that she is trying to show I'm not caring for her, but how on earth can I show I care if it's a moving target?

[Notwendy]

My heart goes out to all the dads who are main wage earners and who have taken on a large share of domestic duties as well. That was my Dad and thank goodness for him or we'd have no consistency growing up. I recognize that my situations is not as difficult and that it may seem petty to be discussing cooking. I'm actually more interested in the reasons for the food trigger and to try to understand it better. The issue was not that I was the main one to take on home making tasks but that the times I asked for help on occasion brought such an intense reaction ( raging, refusal, silent treatment). I did not ever want to be in the position my parents were where BPD mom didn't work and didn't do much at home. I would feel bad if my H were cooking dinner most nights and I wasn't helping.

I guess the constant here is that, your wife doesn't feel bad. I think it comes down to reciprocity. I don't want someone to be my cook, just my partner if that makes any sense. I think that is what you wished for your wife as well.

How on earth can I show I care if it's a moving target?  I think this is  a main issue. It isn't a moving target but a deep sense of feeling unloved or unappreciated in the person themselves and they perceive evidence of that in others - but the issue is not with what other people do but in them. No amount of dinner cooking for your wife will solve this because it isn't in what you do but what she feels. Not doing something then becomes evidence of this inner feeling.

This doesn't mean you don't do it. I cook too. You need to eat and the kids need a routine. I have to eat, the kids have to eat and I like my own healthy cooking. I am happy to cook for my family. Perhaps it was the reaction to the times I didn't or the refusal to help when I occasionally asked that puzzled me more. As to cooking your favorite dishes, if you are the cook, then make your meat. She can eat the veggies. I think this is about poor boundaries, expecting the two of you to like the same things,  but any two people can like to eat different things without it being a problem.

What I have learned is that the parent that is hands on with the kids, also gets close to the kids. I knew who took care of me when I was younger. Our relationship got rocky as  I was older and more likely to challenge BPD mom, but it was Dad who held things together. Your kids know that- and for that, what you are doing is worth it. I commend you. 

[Notwendy]

If this helps at all with your wife- my BPD mother is intelligent, but lacks "executive function" the ability to carry out a task without structure or help for things like grocery shopping or cooking. In addition, she feels insecure about it.

I've been in the kitchen with her and she asks constant questions. Is this enough sauce? Is this enough salt? Does this taste OK? What pan should I use? She doesn't grocery shop on her own.

I sometimes think refusal to try may be a cover for scared to try/scared of failing to do it right.

[defogging]

I don't think it's petty to discuss things like cooking, these are the small things that repeat over and over, escalate, and eventually drive us nuts.

Reading both our posts some more, I think the root cause is the same and is what we both described (you did so more eloquently).  The deep feeling of being unloved, unworthy, etc.  We keep pouring water into the bottomless bucket in a futile manner.

I want the same as you mention.  Just some reciprocity.  She doesn't do things so I pick up the slack until I'm overwhelmed and my identity becomes being her rescuer.  I would love to have rational conversations about sharing household chores, taking kids to activities, etc, but it always turns into "she does everything" and I have to stop the argument before it escalates.

FYI - I don't expect her to like the same things, it's normal not to.  What spun my mind around was the sudden shift to "meat is bad" with the hypocrisy that came with it.  In my situation, she does a lot to make me look evil to the kids (doesn't work thankfully) and her parents so I think that's what causes that behavior .  If she doesn't want to eat the meat I've cooked that's fine, there are veggies and potatoes she can have.  It's felt like a big game though, I've chased what she wants for dinner - made salads for us and then find out she's not hungry, made chicken and she says she needs more iron so she really wanted elk.  Done doing that!  She's perfectly capable of assembling a salad and putting dressing on it, but chooses the dry spinach leaves as some sort of victim performance.

Boundaries - I'm working on this, and that is why I've intentionally let her (forced her to) cook some meals for her and the kids.  Just simple things like "hey hon, I had a big lunch and might just make myself a sandwich later so can you take care of dinner for you guys tonight?"  Picking my battles on this to not impact the kids.  Another boundary is I told her the other day I am going to cook more of my game meat and if they don't want it they may need to make themselves something else.  I'll cook enough for everyone but they don't need to eat it.  I think having boundaries means it's okay to draw the line and ask that they be willing to take care of themselves at times, and it's what I'm trying to do.  My uBPDw has responded to this, and a lot of times she goes ahead and makes dinner.

The executive function thing is interesting, but I don't think it applies in my case.  My uBPDw has a stellar reputation as a cook and as a very organized person in general.  She is a great baker, and constantly has cookies, pies, cakes made for co-workers, her family and the neighbors.  When she goes grocery shopping she somehow seems to be able to get everything she needs for the week.

[BetterLanes]

Hi Notwendy (and others),

As ever there is a thread that is more interesting than adding to mine  My probably-ASD H has always had difficulty acting in grown-up ways around food and meals. He also wants "whatever I have" and gets cross if he sees me eating something (like leftover meat) that he could have eaten. The annoying thing about this is if I leave the food for him, he forgets to eat it, and if I remind him about it, he gets angry and says I am pestering him to eat it. I have to just make sure I eat it when he's out of the house or can't see.

He also waits to be fed and then points out any issue there is with the meal (too small/large a portion, not as expected, some fault in the cooking). The portions, oh my goodness. It used to be that he got cross if he didn't have a visibly larger portion than me (stated as "because I'm bigger than you", or later on in the relationship, "because you're too fat"). When he decided to diet a few years ago, the rule changed to be that his portion had to be the same size as mine. I substitute other things in for carbs now so this confuses him sufficiently that he doesn't notice that any more. My D11's portion has to be visibly smaller than both of ours ("because she's smaller than us", and "because she's too fat"). A few months back we had battered fish and chips, and I mistakenly gave D11 the largest of the fish. This caused a meltdown (ASD-appropriate word for a rage) so I told D11 to give him some of her fish, she refused as it's her favorite food in the world, and he only just about consented to eat the meal (I can't remember what I did or said in the end, it was probably hunger that swung it!).

My H started baking bread as a hobby (right after I went low-carb/Paleo!) and this has improved his feeling of competence/independence in the kitchen. It used to be if he did occasionally make anything I had to lay out all the ingredients and instructions for him. With baking he takes an interest, chooses and follows recipes, is proud of the end product, and has the odd disaster which I think makes him more empathetic towards my kitchen fails. If I ask him to bake a particular sort of bread product at a particular time, though, that's suddenly a huge demand and chore. Like when you ask my DD to do something for homework that she would happily do for fun.

I can see that this can be to do with tying up food and love, and in this case I think it also feels like controlling or even dominance behaviors. That's how it feels when he requires the rights to the biggest and best bits of all the food  - real caveman stuff! I only really got out from under this when I changed my diet and it was different from his, so it was hard to compare our plates. He doesn't like this either actually, and my "weird" breakfasts were a particular source of complaints. Solution: now I skip breakfast during the week, which works better with the morning schedule anyway, and is Paleo  But it's not healthy when you feel like you have to hide your food and eating from your partner. Fortunately although he complains about the "huge amount of food in the house", he doesn't actually take the initiative to go through it for himself like yours does, so I can squirrel things away if I need to.

BetterLanes x

[Fie]

Dear BetterLanes,

I am sorry to say I was shocked to read that your husband gives your D11 the smaller portion 'because she is too fat'. Do you react when he tells her things like that ?

My D10 gets the biggest portion because she still needs to grow.

Notwendy,

Please don't think your story about the food is not worth mentioning, of course it is. We all learn from it and I would feel very bothered about it if I were in your shoes.

[formflier]

Great thread!  I'll come back later and contribute.

I find it interesting that what is an issue in some households isn't as much in another.  That certain areas are dysfunctional and some seem "normal".

Luckily food is relatively calm in our household.  As you guys know... .money is a minefield for me.

More later

FF

[Red5]

I have to say... .as a random internet stranger reading down through his thread... .I am quite shocked,

Never in my life... .have I ever witnessed this type of behavior in an adult, either father / mother, or else Grandmother, or Grandfather figures, even Aunts and Uncles... .maybe I was too young to notice, .maybe I was "sheltered"... .no, not even in my entire first marriage... .even up to now.

The very thought of the "father figure" eating first, first pick, and then complaints to the cook, or acting out... .nope... .never seen it… no not ever during the time I was growing up back in Suwannee County... .from the male fatherly figures in my ‘foo' as well the local community there... .

I remember helping Granny (all of us grandkids) prepare and to cook... .I remember us ALL sitting down together, saying the prayer, and then we all ate, and we were glad to get what we got... .and if we were to "complain"... .you were likely to get into trouble with Granny and Grampa... .they were raised during the depression you see, so the very idea of being picky, or "not grateful' was frowned upon.

And when dinner was over, we were all expected to help clean up, Granny did not have a "dishwasher", as we were the dishwashers... .she taught us all how to cook, and clean, and prepare food in the kitchen... .don't get me wrong, but it was all about love in Granny’s kitchen, and waste was __not_ tolerated, if you did not clean your plate, then it might still be there for the next meal... .matter of fact, there was always cut up veggies, left over bacon, maybe ham, and all the biscuits that were left over, on the table all day... .and that was always a great after school snack, .there was no "waste" in that kitchen, anything left over was collected for Mr. Federico's hogs... .he was one of the "hands" out in Grampa's sawmill... .

So years later on, when I was a Dad, .I always sat down last, filled my plate last, ate last, .and I ensured my wife (at the time) had help, with the kids, the kitchen, and the cleanup... .

I was never picky, and I always said "thank you"... .I never took the last of anything, last piece of bread, last cup of milk etc;... .that was for the kids, and the wife,

This is the way I was brought up.

So even today... .I am quite capable of "fending for myself", and making sure the kitchen is stocked, I remember going grocery shopping and cooking with my first wife, and then as a single dad, of course it was all on me... .even now in my second marriage... .I am the primary "shopper"... .she cooks (cooked) occasionally, and I always say (said) thank you, and I did the cleanup... .usually when I cooked, she (uBPDw#2) would very rarely eat what I would make... .resulting in lots of "takeout"... .

To read about the father / husband figure being picky, not fetching his own plate… and being "first" in line before the youngins (hmmm)... .I just don't understand that... .

All very interesting!

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

To read about the father / husband figure being picky, not fetching his own plate … and being "first" in line before the youngins (hmmm) ... .I just don't understand that ... .

My dad always helped out in the kitchen, apparently in an era when men often didn't participate in "women's work" so I grew up expecting that to be the norm. He not only cooked, he washed floors, vacuumed, and did all the yard work and never made an issue about anything. My mom also did housework, but her cooking skills were marginal at best. But being a pwBPD, she had to let everyone know how she "worked her fingers to the bone."

In my first marriage, I did most of the cooking, but my former husband often cooked too. He, like many pwNPD, assumed he was an excellent chef, even without any real experience, but some of his cooking was actually good. My current husband has never once vacuumed the house or done any cleaning in our shared living spaces. I guess he presumes it's "my space" because he has his own detached studio that he cleans maybe every few months, if that. There's typically dust bunnies everywhere but since it's his space, it's his problem, not mine. However he whines about how hard cleaning is when he deigns to actually do it.

Had I "allowed" it at the beginning of the relationship, he would have developed similar habits of expecting to sit at the table, be served and have his dishes cleared, all while he did more "important, manly things like read The New Yorker" while I cleaned up. But of course, that entitled behavior didn't sit well with me, so I nipped it in the bud.

Nowadays he's actually learned to be quite helpful and participates in cooking the meals we order on our meal delivery service. Glory Be!    

[Notwendy]

Sorry others are dealing with this but it is good to know I'm not the only one.

I brought up the food situation making me tense last night and the reply was " you are doing this to yourself, I'm not doing anything".

Makes me feel I am either out of my mind, or there is zero awareness of his own behavior. ( I think the latter). There doesn't seem to be any way to have a discussion over something that doesn't exist as far as he is concerned. The best response I know of is boundaries- just how much I am willing to do.

Yes, Red, it is quite interesting the role models. Dinner at my house? That was Dad putting us all in the car to take us out to dinner because BPD mom was running around the house screaming and we had to get out of her way. Yep that was my family life growing up.

Dinner at my H's house? Grandma cooks three square meals a day, Grandpa sits and eats. Then he gets up and sits in his easy chair while granny cleans up. The females help, males do not.

So I had no idea what a normal family dinner would be like, and if I brought up the idea of something different, well, the response was it had to be my problem because to my H, his behavior is entirely normal. FIL  expected to be served food 3 meals a day on the clock. I don't do that, as everyone is out of the house for lunch and just grabs breakfast.

Better Lanes- I think there is some similarities with  BPD and ASD behaviors but the reasons behind them are different. I think for the ASD person it is about routine and control. Also pwASD are sensitive to some food textures. For BPD, I think the behaviors are driven by a poor sense of self and feeling unloved.