Unexpected reaction

[Pytagoras]

This topic is in the sequence of the previous:
   
"I saw the messages this morning."

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331841.30

UPDATE:

Today i texted her and said:

ME - "I know that i said i would respect your space, but there are things that i want to speak to you face to face. I don't want to continue to interact texting important things anymore. When you can."

HER - "What do want to speak about? Can you give me hints?"
         - "Is it good or bad?"

( After 4 hours of not responding, because i couldnt, she insisted. She was nervous. Always online )

    - "?"

Me - "What are you afraid of? I will not fight"

Her - "Are you going to tell me that you are dating another woman?"

( then she sent me her photo with blonde hair )
    
    - "What do you think of my blonde hair?"
    - "Why dont you answer?"
    - "Why do you say that you don't want to text anymore?"
    - "I am afraid that will tell me that you are dating another woman"

Well, after lots of talking, and her insistence in asking if i am dating another woman, i said it wans't the case.

She said what she was doing at the moment, without me asking. She said we could be together tomorow. "I will contact you here", she said. And "But please, I don't want to suffer anymore". "Don´t worry", i answered.

It seemed to me that she was eager to speak more, but i wished her good evening and "see you tomorow". Kisses.

What about that? Unexpected.

Tomorow i will meet her, after 5 weeks.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[itsmeSnap]

I haven't read your previous thread so I'm doing a cold read so bear with me

Well, after lots of talking, and her insistence in asking if i am dating another woman, i said it wans't the case.

She said what she was doing at the moment, without me asking. She said we could be together tomorow. "I will contact you here", she said. And "But please, I don't want to suffer anymore". "Don´t worry", i answered.

She is likely feeling vulnerable and opening up to you by telling you exactly how she's feeling ("I dont want to suffer anymore"). You have an opportunity here, you know how she's feeling, this is a great time to validate her feelings but also set some boundaries, including use of social media, but also how you handle her insecurities; maybe set an action/code for when she's feeling jealous/vulnerable of you interacting with other women and the appropriate response you give her to make her feel wanted by you?.

Interestingly enough she's also setting up her own terms ("I will contact you here", and not "message me as soon as you can" or similar), so thats a good thing I guess, I'd be glad if my gf reached out like that, she has a hard time expressing her needs.

What about that? Unexpected.

Tomorow i will meet her, after 5 weeks.

Is there something you would like to happen? something to not happen? or just whatever happens?

[Pytagoras]

itsmeSnap,

Thk you for your response.

It's unexpected, because she was cold, distant, said she was very hurt and brokeup with me, in the last five weeks (and we dont see each other for that time). I wasn't very hopeful anymore in a resuming of the relationship.

Now it's a good oportunity like you said.

convenently i've finished the book "I don't have to make everything all better" today, about validating feelings.

maybe set an action/code for when she's feeling jealous/vulnerable of you interacting with other women and the appropriate response you give her to make her feel wanted by you?.

I didn't understood this. Can you please explain me?

Is there something you would like to happen? something to not happen? or just whatever happens?

I would like to validate her feelings. Say that i should have done it before when  she wanted to talk about her hurts and i just JADE that time. Open my heart to her by express my feelings. I would like her to express her hurts, since she have never done it after the breakup (she repeated several times that she was hurt, but never spoke about it).

I would like us to have a healthy conversation and that we could improve our situation a little bit. Get a little bit closer. And maybe a little bit of healing.

I don't want us to have a fight.

[itsmeSnap]

I didn't understood this. Can you please explain me?

Ok so an example that happened to me:

Before my gf used to be distant with me, with single word replies like "okay", "oh", and "sure". It actually led to a breakup once because she thought I was being annoying.

After she came back around I told her I needed her to participate whenever I reached out to her, she was as confused as you are, so I told her "remember when I used to send you good morning and how's work messages and you just replied 'thanks', or 'fine'? I need you to actually respond and tell me about it, what are you planning, if something interesting happened, you know, have a conversation and not just hit me with 'k'"

I later messaged her once or twice and she started being dismissive again. I told her "we talked about this remember, no more one word replies", she hadn't noticed she did that and was kinda surprised I pointed it out, and since she had agreed to be more mindful she reacted positively and took effort to have an actual conversation.

It actually worked. Every time I messaged her she would answer with a story about her day. She was sometimes sarcastic but I knew she was making an effort, so I took it lightly and we had some fun with it, I'd tease her a bit about it and then would flip it into a compliment/validation about something that had happened that she told me.

Another person just recently posted his gf would ask him to tell her when she was being "abusive"/"attacking him" and to tell her the exact words. Now, I don't think just following through as instructed there was a good idea, I mentioned he could just tell her at the moment, sort of like "remember we talked about this? its happening right now"

Could be a touch on the shoulder, a word (I mentioned the movie meet the fockers the bride's parents used the codeword 'muskrat' when the dad was giving the groom a hard time"), or the outright "we talked about this" like in my case.

I would like us to have a healthy conversation

Just remember its not like in the movies where the couple lays it all out and they have a sudden realization and they live happily ever after.

Could take a long time, baby steps

Open my heart to her by express my feelings. I would like her to express her hurts, since she have never done it after the breakup (she repeated several times that she was hurt, but never spoke about it).

Again, a little at a time. People with BPD get overwhelmed easily, so try not to lay it on thick or "dump your heart and soul out" on first chance. Also don't hold back just because you fear she might take it the wrong way.

Nobody said this would be easy, you'll just have to get a feel for what works with her.

Hope that helps!

[once removed]

Tomorow i will meet her, after 5 weeks.

how did it go?

[Pytagoras]

UPDATE:

I haven't been updating for a while, because the process has evolved slowly.

She avoided the conversation with me. She was afraid of something.

But, from that day on, we start speaking on a daily basis, phone or texting. One day I passed by to leave a christmas present ( she was very pleased ).

She was not in a good shape. Very skinny and it's obvious that she has not been through easy times.

Things were improving very very slowly. I was against your advices, because i was almost always the one to reach her, but i did it because i noted a good reaction on her. But i followed your advice on taking baby steps, and going very slowly. Also, i always respected her.

Slowly she started send me some photos of her. And opening up a little bit more.

However, her behavior was ambigous since sometimes she seemed to be opening up, and then she "disapears" out of the blue ( often at night ).

Nevertheless, i always respected her and did not pressure her.

Yesterday after not responding to me, i insisted saying i was worried with her, and surprisingly, she called me the cute name she called me when we were together. And then, she said goodbye out of the blue.

Today she unexpectedly called me and we spent two hours speaking on the phone. Later, she invited me to have a coffee. And after a good conversation, she kissed me. We hugged each other for a while. I said that i missed her and she said the same.

She said "I've been resisting to this, but i couldnt do it anymore"

She has friends that are pressuring her to not be with me, since i was portrayed as an abuser ( of course... .).

We agreed to go slowly.

So it seems we are back on business.

I want to continue here in this comunity, so i can be prepared to the difficult times ahead.

PS: After the book "I can't do everything all better", i started "Loving someone with Borderline Personality Disorder"

[once removed]

what do you mean when you say she disappears?

[Pytagoras]

what do you mean when you say she disappears?

she went silent at night. Sometimes she didn't answer messages, sometimes she did, saying she was very tired, not feeling well and already in bed. But usually not answering.

But she was not well. Very very tired from the work and with lot's of problems in her life. Health problems as well.

the idea of her be dating someone passed trough my mind, but now i don't think so.

And i think she was having some inner battles. Wanting to be with me, but afraid of it.

[Pytagoras]

This morning when i went to my cell phone, i had 10 phone call attempts.

Later when we spoke, she apologized.

We met later and spoke about our relationship. We agreed in several points: mostly that we should go slowly, and if things went well, maybe we could get togheter again. She said she was afraid to repeat the suffering of the past.

I validated her feelings and her complaints. She spoke in a healthy manner.

She said she was feeling better after our conversation.

We kissed and hugged each other.

What do you advice me to do, to better prepare my self?

I'm reading the book i refered in my last post. Next, i will read the several lessons here. What more?

[once removed]

I'm reading the book i refered in my last post. Next, i will read the several lessons here. What more?

open threads and discuss what you are reading and learning... .ask questions.

We met later and spoke about our relationship. We agreed in several points: mostly that we should go slowly, and if things went well, maybe we could get togheter again. She said she was afraid to repeat the suffering of the past.

it sounds like things are on an upward trajectory, and it also sounds like shes still tentative/nervous. thats okay, and its natural. expect that there will be some bumps and challenges in the road... .those will be critical. focus here as they come up.

[Pytagoras]

Ok.

I would like to thank you all that have responded to my threads. You were very supportive and help me a lot in this process.

I will continue to post here the next relevant ongoings, and continue to read and try to improve

[Radcliff]

How was the weekend?

RC

[Pytagoras]

Hello,

Things have been going very very slowly.

She calls me every day. Sometimes several times a day. I call her too.

I would say that things are working fine. We have not argued. We have been speaking cordially.

7 days ago, a friend of mine came to tell me that in the time that we were apart, her ex-boyfriend came along (he is from another country). I asked her, and she confirmed. I was a little bit nervous. To calm down, i ended the phone call in the best way i could. Some minutes later, i called her again saying that i would not argue with her, but i just wanted to know what happened. She said she would call me latter, because she was working at the time.

She called me later, very nervous, saying that my tone of voice made her remind some things of our past relation. I was very calm and manage to calm her down too. She said that she has no interest in her ex-boyfriend, that nothing happened, and that he went to seek some help ( she didn't specify ).

I don't know if she is saying the truth, and i don't see her for more than a week now, so i could't speak with her and i will not address this or any sensitive issue by phone.

I never spoke about it again.

Next day she called me and apologized for screaming with me. I validated her feelings and accepted the apologize.

Three days ago, she wrote two love poems dedicated to me. "I'll be yours to the end. Make this happen... ."

Next day, i went to another city with a friend of mine (he was going to make a tattoo). In the phone calls, i think she tried to control herself, but with her tone of voice i notest something. I think she was jealous and afraid of the possibility of me hanging with another women (like she did in the past wich originated some arguing between us).

But we spoke naturally, with no stress.

Next day, in the first call of the day, she said to me "I think we are going too fast. Yesterday i felt things that scared me." (maybe her feelings are going too fast, because the relationship itself is not even moving forward. It's stationary). She asked me not to pressure her and that we are not boyfriends yet, altough i think i didn't pressure her, not in a big deal anyway.

I ended up accepting her fear, and in the last days we've been spoking normally, sending pictures, etc.

Today she spoke about the possibility of we get togheter for a coffee or something tomorow (when we see each other, she always get closer. I can note she text me more, call me more, etc.)

When we get togheter, we have always been speaking in a nice, healthy way and it's being good.

She is not taking care of herself. Not eating properly, depressive most of the time. She has a female friend that spends lots of time with her and is helping her.

And things are like this. Very very slowly. She is still very afraid and i have no other choice but to have a lot of patience and accept her rhythm.

Any thoughts ?

[Harri]

And things are like this. Very very slowly. She is still very afraid and i have no other choice but to have a lot of patience and accept her rhythm.

  Yes, right now she has to set the pace.  Fear is hard to deal with even when you know it may not be rational or based on the present.  Give her time to settle and just stay steady at your end of things. 

Did you agree to meet up with her tomorrow?

[Radcliff]

I agree with Harri.  It sounds like you are doing a good job of validating and not applying too much pressure.

RC

[once removed]

old issues from the previous iteration of the relationship are starting to resurface. her jealousy, and to some extent, yours.

how will you face this challenge?

[Pytagoras]

Did you agree to meet up with her tomorrow?

We met today. We went to lunch together with a female friend of hers. It went well. We had fun, we laugh and had a good time. We kissed and hugged.

The pattern is always the same: When we don't see each other for a while she becomes more distant. Today, as we met, she already called me 5 or 6 times. Everytime she sees me, she becomes more attached.

how will you face this challenge?

First, i'll try to deal with my jealously, since that's the more direct thing i can do.

Then, i'll try to don't take her reactions so personally. I've managed to distance graciously twice, when i felt my emotions arising, and when i calmed down, i reached her. And went fine.

I've been doing some mindfullness, thinking, spending some time alone and try to aply some strategies i've been reading.

In this 15 days that we start dating again, we hadn't any argument. Only a little tension twice. But we are still a little distanced. If we get closer, it will be harder... .

i know it's very difficult not to fail sometimes. I know it will be a tough challenge. And i think i will fail sometimes. But i will try to do my best.

[Radcliff]

I think you have an excellent outlook.  You will succeed sometimes, and fail other times.  Your mindfulness skills will grow, and you will start to find yourself succeeding in situations where earlier you might have failed.  Keep up the good work, and keep us posted!

RC

[Pytagoras]

Thank you

[Pytagoras]

UPDATE:

Strange things happening.

We have been getting closer and closer.

But then, five days ago, she said she had to tell me something, very dificult for her to tell, because she was afraid of loosing me and afraid that i would never speak with her again. And she cried when she said this.

She told me that her ex- ask her for help ( he is from another country and he wanted to come and live in ours ). So, he moved into her house. The idea was to stay for a few time, but time has passed and he was there already for 1 month or more ( i don't know ). She told me she didn't get involved with him, that she has no interest in him. That she asked him three times do get out and he refused. And that she spent a lot of time out with friends or working just to avoid him.

She said that she wanted a relationship with me.

She tried to hug me, kiss me, everything. And cried a lot. "I made a mistake!".

"Will you stay with me?"

I said i needed to think about all of this.

She text me and called me a lot after this.

In one of the calls i told her that i had two choices. one, I would stay away from her. two, i would stay with her, but in that case, her ex- had to leave. She told me she would solve the situation. She spoke with him and two days later (yesterday) he was gone.

I give her credit for telling me about her situation. I know it shouldn't be easy, but i don't know if she told me the all truth. If she dated him or not. It's strange, because she was not taking care of herself. She didn't even do the depilation. And she was not happy. Would that be the case if she was with him? And i noticed that she was always with her friends.

Either way, it's a very strange behavior, for several reasons. but I know it's common for a BPD.

Even so, it was a major blow to my confidence and for my will to get back together with her. I will need to rethink this trough.

I've been more distanced. She calls me and texts me. It is always her. I almost never take that initiative.

I asked how did she felt about him getting out and she says it's difficult for her to throw people away from home.  Because that happened to her a lot in her life. And i know that she did tried to help people in the past like this.

Today i said we needed to speak and we went to speak. She said she was not feeling the same, because she was afraid. She said i didn't reacted badly, that eventualy, she would do worst, but the way i reacted made her remember things from our past. She said she need some time alone, to heal, because she knows that if she get in a relationship with me, she will be insecure, and jealously and she will not make me happy. She said she was very confused. She said she loved me and was doing this for Love. I said it was ok. And that i agreed and that i would give her her space. Then, in the way back, things shifted again. She was already saying me that we could get together like we were doing in this last weeks. I said maybe. Because i needed also to protect myself. Two days ago she was saying something and now another completelly diferent. She kissed me goodbye in the lips. Two hours later she was calling and inviting me to go eat something. I met her, and she offered me a book. We went, and we had a good time and spoke about her works mostly. We huged and kissed. Later, she gave me another kiss of goodbye in the lips and later, texted me more.

It was good, she recognizing that she is not well for a relationship and wants to break from the toxicity of her past relationships. But is it really true ?

I guess, another day in the office with a BPD gf

[once removed]

Even so, it was a major blow to my confidence and for my will to get back together with her.
... .
but the way i reacted made her remember things from our past.

you were told there would be tests Pytagoras. there always are in relationships. how you face them is critical.

was/is this a blow to your confidence and a threat to your relationship, or a conflict that she took the initiative to bring to you and resolve?

what is a strong, confident, mature play here?

[Pytagoras]

was/is this a blow to your confidence and a threat to your relationship, or a conflict that she took the initiative to bring to you and resolve?

what is a strong, confident, mature play here?

Well. this affected me. I said to her that it's been difficult to deal with this but i'm doing my best.

I didn't reacted perfectly. I didn't exactly stood behind her like she wanted to. Maybe that was the more mature thing to do. I couldn't.

However, i think i didn't reacted that bad.

And i am still speaking with her in a calm, healty manner as we did yesterday.

Now we got back a few steps. She is afraid, but still wanting to be with me as we were yesterday.

Yet, she said she has to be alone to get better, because she understands that being in relationship as she is now (a wreck), she will not make the other person happy (in this case, me). i can only respect her decision. But then she said we could be together sometimes.

What do you think i should do ?

[once removed]

What do you think i should do ?

i think you should be proactive about posting when issues come up. its difficult to help when things have already happened, its all monday morning quarterbacking.

i was talking about responding with a general "thanks for letting me know, its not a big deal, we can solve this" kinda thing.

any update?

[Radcliff]

It's been a while.  How are things going?

RC





Part 2 of this thread is here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338387.msg13066654#msg13066654