Silent Treatment Guide?

[2020]

Hello,

Partly due to my own experience of this and what I read here from others, is there any definitive guide or tools which one can access in relation to the 'silent treatment'? Something along the lines of when and why it is implemented and how we can best cope with it. I did try a search here but I was  hoping to find something in the Tools section. Forgive me if it already exists and I just haven't found it.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Turkish]

Have you seen this? BEHAVIORS: Silent treatment

[itsmeSnap]

I have read that disengaging and giving it time is the best approach to take, maybe checking up with light conversation to let them know you're still open for contact.

Having said that, that is "crisis control". The fire is raging: get the hose, don't let it spread, for the love of all things good don't drop more fuel into it  and just wait for it to smother itself.

Is there anything to do to prevent it? Any way to notice the ember before the place goes aflame?

Also, what about after? if they start talking again how do we address the issue that caused it in the first place so it won't happen again?

Sorry I'm also very interested in this I have my own thread but much more particular to my own situation, yours seems general enough that I wanted to chime in.

[Radcliff]

In addition to the resource Turkish recommended, you can visit this educational thread on the silent treatment.  You can also visit an educational page titled, Silent treatment:  when your partner pretends you don’t exist.

[2020]

Thank you for the link. I hadn't seen that. There are some comforting words in that thread.

And yes, what to do afterwards? I have tried to work out an approach with my partner about these incidences and how best to resolve them, but so far have had no luck. I am presently under the treatment and have no idea where my partner is, who she is with, or whether I will see her again. I am bedding down for a long wait. I'll read through your experiences itsmesnap. And thank you for the links too Radcliff. They appeared just before I hit 'Post'.

[Radcliff]

How are things going for you today, 2020?

RC

[2020]

Thank you for asking Radcliff. Things are not that great but maybe they will get better.

My partner had a major melt down recently. It had been brewing for some time. I have explained it elsewhere here but briefly it is a steady decline of her spirit, her moods, increase in anger, violence, lack of will to do pretty much anything with me. Very on and off, off mostly. And I have tried to assert myself. I made it clear that I wanted two hours each morning to do my own work. She was hurt by this although she denies that. She said it was the way I said it.

She sat on a main road before Christmas and was taken to a hospital. Third time in 18 months. She has been very vulnerable. She was telling me that I am going to have Christmas with my ex (broke up 2004). Christmas day she isolated herself most of the day. On the 27th she exploded/imploded? I thought we were both going to do our own work for two hours. I went and saw her at the warehouse two hours later. She was making some progress with a project of hers which we discussed briefly. She said there were a couple of things she might just finish. I said OK. I told her I will be back in an hour or so and see how she went. Dead on the one hour mark, she was at the bedroom window really upset. She was calling me a hypocrite and telling me I banish her from my life on purpose. I tried not to JADE. It just escalated. Eventually I lost it. I told her I needed to say something and you might not like it: "Stop playing the victim all of the time". She screamed at me that I don't listen to her words at all. Then she walked off.

Minutes later I got in the car with my son to go to the bank. I thought I'd refuel the car, see my partner and go for a drive with her to calm things down, maybe have a picnic somewhere. As I left I could see her looking out the roller door of the warehouse. I maybe should have got my son to wait a moment and I go attend to her drama first but I didn't. I went to the bank. When I got to the warehouse she had vanished.

I then spent the next 72 hours searching for her. I looked at the hospital, the mental health unit, her son, everywhere. I became this obsessed nervous wreck. I feared she may be dead. I broke into the warehouse expecting to find her hanging by a rope. She was not there. I sent frantic emails and finally got a reply of few words: I am fine thank you.

Yesterday was really difficult. I have had no idea even where she is. I sent some nice calm emails saying I was thinking of her and hope she is ok. That sort of thing. Last night I got an email from her:

Dear _______,
You need not worry about me. I am doing fine.
I am looking after myself and feel supported, despite this painful happening.
Your emails do reach me, yet my opportunity to see and respond to them are limited.

It sounds you do not sleep yet you dream, so things are not so bad for you as you communicate.
I do not have much to offer you anymore. As you are aware, things have become so dysfunctional. I have reached breaking point.Thus I need to protect and consider what I really need to continue existing in this somewhat challenging universe.

I thank you for your concern and hope that you will make decisions in your life to nurture yourself.
All the best _______.

If you knew her you'd see some sarcasm in there. I responded to her in a validating way saying that it sounds like things have become very difficult and that I'd have to agree with that. I told her I was saddened that she is hurting and sorry for my part in this. The email exchange continued for a bit. I told her that I missed her and it would be good to talk with her when she was ready. She never answered. So I wished her nice dreams and said I would contact her tomorrow. She waited a bit then responded that dreams with me were fruitless.

Some time ago, I made the mistake of mentioning BPD and that was something she will never accept or forgive me for. It is unfortunate. She had to see a Psychiatrist on Friday. Last night her emails got more angry. She sent me this:

no ______ I wish to never see you again
yes, you have self righteously hurt me
but you are a horrible person and I have seeked medical advice and gruesome psychiatric assessment and it has been advised that I stay away from you and your family

YOU ARE NOT TO BE IN MY LIFE _________ EVER AGAIN

And the psychiatrist wanted me to let you know that i discussed with him your BPD diagnosis and suggested that it was a very good indication that i need not endure you and your dysfunctional family any more
But wanted you to know that assessments will be ongoing
no need to worry about me _________ anymore, maybe just focus on your children and estranged wife
regards,
_______.


I told her that this saddened me. I said she had every right to be upset and apologised for my role in it. She waited a bit then sent a sarcastic rude email where she was imitating my Autistic son. I did not reply. I can't validate that!


So today I have woken up not knowing what to do. I have thought I could send her an email later in the day asking how she is, how her day went, how are you feeling today. I should not be doing this, but I was so worried sick... .She had left her emails open on a tab on my computer. I could see she had read them yesterday. She had deleted all her other emails for the past two days and just kept the ones from me. I expected her to respond last night. Also, I am pretty sure I know where she is. She is 250km away at her sister's home.

I don't want to make things worse! I would like to try and work something out. Yeah I must be crazy myself! It is her birthday in a week. She had been saying she doesn't want a birthday at all. Don't know what I'll do.

I was going to post something here about how best to handle this. My only communication at the moment is email which she hates. I have to be very careful. I have a small shard of hope that this might be another cycle rather than an absolute end. I think she has bottomed out now and I guess I need to stand back and let her pull herself up. I can see the role I was playing was not helping her. She doesn't even have to open a car door for herself with me around. I am a gentleman to her and she gets treated well beyond belief, but unfortunately, in a manner which is not really productive.

Sorry about the length of this. I appreciate any feedback and thoughts. I really don't want to mess this up.

[Radcliff]

She is in a very volatile place.  As you saw, engaging her when she is in this place runs the risk of fueling the conflict.  When you read an e-mail from her, your best tool is to step back and go for a walk.  Set a time limit for yourself before which you won't respond.  I'm thinking hours, not minutes.  As you go through the waiting period, think carefully about what you will respond to and what not.  Your best bet may be only to identify the emotions and validate them.  Keep your responses very short, don't try to convince her of anything or make any points.

You apologized for your part in this.  What valid criticisms are there of you?  Are you validating the invalid in an effort to soothe her?

RC

[Cailin]

 I have a small shard of hope that this might be another cycle rather than an absolute end.

I dont know how to put that quote in a different color!
I can relate to this statement! So far, every round of “he loves me not” has been a cycle. I’m at the point, though, where the destructive words and accusations are taking such a toll on my ability to love him when he is in the “he loves me” phase, that I have to be honest about my ability to continue to take his verbal abuse. My New Years resolution is to tell the truth and never say anything that makes me feel weak. This would include fighting back with equally horrid allegations, even if I think they are true! I do call him on his “crap” when I feel like doing so doesn’t compromise how I feel about myself. I have been known to “stoop to his level” and I always regret it.
I’m sorry you are having to experience this kind of chaos and trauma. Sometimes I think my marriage to my hwBPD is the codependent’s version of “ hitting bottom”. If I hadn’t of married him, I probably would be with some other , maybe worse, guy with BPD!
Looking at how and why I ended up here is the only way I know to regain sanity in the wake of the  roller coster of emotions!

[2020]

Radcliff, I think I am making some mistakes. I have had a 'lightbulb' moment today. I have just started reading Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist by M Fjelstad. I have dumped myself into the first part around page 50 or so. It is quite revealing. I am seeing that there are some very important traits of my own which will need addressing. I have been making some huge errors. I have let myself slide. I am not sure what I will find in the rest of this book. I think the change I so desperately want needs to come from within. It may be met with resistance or even be the end of this relationship, which I don't want, but I need to focus on myself and my role in this relationship.

As for the valid criticisms of me and my apology? Well, I can see the mistake here. I am just falling into the same old trap. Me saying sorry for her outburst. Yes, indeed I am validating the invalid to soothe her. Thank you Radcliff so much. You are helping me figure this out.

Cailin, I too get the urge to fight back. We have had some really bad mud slinging matches. She annihilates my whole family and by default, I must be garbage too. My kids are retards, I chose to breed with trailer trash... .that sort of thing. And then I snap and tell her she didn't do that well herself. Look at your lazy ape/son! It's not good. It just damages everyone. It is hard to maintain self control in a skirmish.

I really recommend this book. I think it might help people like us. And yes, this little area on the internet is an island of hope!

[Cailin]

Thanks for the reminder, I read that book some time back! Shows how long I’ve been at this and absolutely nothing about him has changed! I’ve changed, though. I’m much more self assured. Hang in there and make little changes everyday and vow to be better than you currently are! We didn’t make them into who they are (even though that is the message) but there are reasons why we are here in the first place!

[2020]

Thanks Cailin. I am still reading the book. Had a few email interactions with my partner until she became really rude and then I chose not to respond.   I am on part 2 of the book now: Letting go of Caretaking. I am actually feeling a lot better than I was two days ago. I was so screwed up I was on a phone to a counsellor about it. I felt really suicidal. Now I feel stronger. I am seeing how we are a big part of this dysfunction. Let's start looking after ourselves!

[Radcliff]

I am seeing how we are a big part of this dysfunction. Let's start looking after ourselves!

Exactly.  This is so hard to see sometimes when our partners' actions are so dramatic.  But we can only control ourselves.  I have to remind myself of this very often with my pwBPD.  You are on a good path, 2020.  Keep it up, and please share any insights you glean from the book and how it applies to you and your situation.  Other members are reading and learning from your experience.

RC

[Cailin]

The hardest part for me when I am attempting to not fall into an aguement is the intense anger I feel for days afterwards. If it stays around long enough it either turns into depression or I finally lash out at him when he baits me. Family, friends, work, hobbies get my mind off of my own resentment and anger. Eventually I’ll forget about it and move on, until the next time he feels the need to persecute me for my imaginary offenses.

[2020]

Yes it is all very difficult. I have wrapped my whole existence up around her over a 10 year period. It's all well and good reading the eye opening advice in books like this, but it is a difficult thing trying to apply it when you can't seem to shift in the idea of the two of you for ever and ever.

I sent a pleasant greeting via email today. Got a response an hour later which said "I feel very lost and alone on the planet, wondering what to do next... .How are you doing?" I replied and have heard nothing back for 7 hours. I had asked her if she had any plans for her bithday next weekend and whether she would like to go on a picnic with me. Maybe that was just too much. I think I am still 'black' in her eyes, although it feels a bit dark grey to me.

I have read the book now and have just started it again. It was quite a sobering read. I don't know what my chances are of reconnecting with her. She is drawing out this 'hurt'. And what does the future hold for us? It isn't looking that bright. This is going to be a lot of work. I suppose somehow the communication lines are semi connected. She wouldn't be checking her emails and responding if I were totally amputated from her forever. Or am I just on the back burner for the moment? Why am I even obsessing about her?

What happens now? She decides maybe a picnic might be ok? Maybe plays out the "I'm all alone on my Birthday" card first and we hook up next week? Then what? We have a few nice days together which means I drive a 500km round trip each time to see her, thus perhaps adding something to her leaky abandonment bucket? Then the rage and anger and violence returns... .Hopefully I will have the good sense not to have rescued her into a shared accomodation situation, which did cross my mind.

Yes I am feeling desperate. I am a fool. Who is the mentally ill one here?

[Cailin]

Honestly, saying that she is “lost and alone on the planet” makes ME want to rescue her and I don’t even know her! It seems to me like the implicit meaning is that you are causing her to feel like that. No wonder you are obsessing! What kind of a monster must you be to make her feel that way! Maybe you aren’t obsessing on her as much as in your own behavior and the possibility she is right about your malevolence! There always seems to be some grain of or half truth in the emotionally laden interactions between me and my hwBPD.I know I have an illness, I’m a recovering ACA/Codependent, that’s how I ended up here! Do your kids like her? I’m not sure I have it in me to divorce my hwBPD but I can aim everyday at being better than yesterday. My hope is that he’ll get well along with me but the evidence is not there, not yet. Seems like the better I get the worse he gets (in terms of rages and accusations). At the very least, I’ll have greater peace and maybe be able to sleep through the night!
I’m reading that  book again.

[2020]

Cailin... .they are like vampyres. Be very careful. Don't expect garlic to help. As far as my kids go, my eldest son 26, he has a lot of empathy for her. He has known her since he was 15 and she has been nice to him most of that time. Recently it has deteriorated. My youngest son doesn't like her at all. He is austistic, 17 years old. She doesn't even think he has autism; "He is oppositionally defiant", whatever that means. Look, it is an impossible mix of people under this roof and I am just the caretaker who fixes things.

So tonight I get an email. She seemed quite negative really: "another year of  has ended, only for another to begin". So I said: "Do you want to talk about that? The year gone and the year to come?" and she said "If you want to". So I opened up the discussion with the positive things we did. Going to Europe, finally. Living in a hire car or in an abandoned church in the French Alps. Then I spoke about the not so good things. The fights we had, the broken stuff, the not getting on, the physical violence. She then said: "___________, I just want to apologise for the violence i have perpetuated toward you, I never wanted that to be something that happened . I am genuinely sorry, it is very shameful I hope some day day you shall forgive me for my horrible, intrusive behaviour. Thank you for talking to me. And i do care about you deeply, despite what appears by my behaviour. You deserve love from someone who is nurturing and supportive."

I rarely get an apology from her. She is 250km away from me right now to the best of my knowledge. When I asked her what her plans were she said:  "I am taking a week to ten days to plan where I go from here. BUT I DEFINITELY KNOW I NEED A HOME TO NURTURE AND FACILITATE MY HEALING FROM THE PAST YEARS OF SUFFERING and to learn to make better decisions in my life, plus I DESIRE TO CONTINUE TO LEARN AND GROW FROM  THIS EXPERIENCE. How that will all eventuate at this point is merely speculation based on assessing my options and weighing up the pros and cons of what I can determine or happen to present itself to me."

So I need to let this happen. She needs to do something for herself for once. And I need to tread very carefully as she can and probably will lay it on thick now. Yes it is all very nice working out that after being in her toilet bowl for so long, I might just be an unflushable turd, now basking in the water under the 60W glow.

It would be nice if it could last for ever. It won't. I am re-reading the book again... .

[Yellowpearl]

Hey 2020,

I was just reading your updates. I just want to say even though this situation sucks, I'm glad to hear she apologized and as much as it hurts, maybe sometimes we need to let them go so they can do their own healing while we can do ours. With all this dysregulation, it's good for you to work on those changes I know you so greatly have been working on. Regardless of what happens next, you have been handling this situation maturely and kindly, and that is admirable.

My situation unfortunately just got worse. I haven't really slept all night but I had some small hope that photo with him and that woman was just a fluke or nothing too serious. Well, then today, I saw his facebook and he changed his status to "in a relationship" and his family and her friends congratulated them both. What the heck. This is the point things are falling apart for me completely, I'm utterly horrified and this just hurts incredibly. I feel like I'm in twilight zone or some alternate realty in wondering how is this even possible. Just the other month he talked about not wanting to be with anyone, not talking to anyone, and weeks ago he said hes more ready and wants to start with me again and work this out. But hes somehow in love with her? I'm wondering is this even possible, or was he playing me the whole time or something.

I feel incredibly lost. I don't know what to really make out of all this. My heart stings with feelings of betrayal, confusion and hurt. I'm sad I had to find out this way. Boy, how disrespectful. He didn't even tell me. I guess he doesn't know I know, since I don't have social media. What a sneaky, thoughtless move on his part. But something just seems off with this. He did this with career too, 2 months ago he was applying to be in the FBI, and deadset on it, weeks ago he said that changed. Hes going from career to career and not leaving me alone for another. I wonder how long this will last and if not long, and he reaches out, do I bother with him. then again, maybe he start loving this person. I am just devastated.

I can't see this week getting any better for me. Hang in there yourself with all of this. I wish you luck with your situation.

[2020]

Hey Yellowpearl. I am really sorry you are going through this pain. I'd rather have toothache, and I've had a few of them before. It's very disrespectful what is happening to you. I feel very sad for you.

You know, years ago, maybe 8 years ago, when this woman I'm involved now with finally seduced me and took me into her bed after 2 years of flirting and saying she doesn't do relationships, we went out one night a few weeks later. She got rotten drunk and as we were leaving she put her arm round another guy and kissed him, walked off down the road with him. I turned around and ran, all the way home. I was so hurt. I had spent the evening with her and she acted like I wasn't even there. I told my psychologist the following week and she asked what I felt by her doing this. I said there was nothing I could do- we aren't in a relationship. Her reply was, "I wouldn't treat my friends like that". She came back and knocked on my door a week later, and I let her back in. Then a few months after that we were out drinking together and I was there thinking I might get to stay in her bed tonight, and she took someone else home! That hurt. I tried to call her a few days later but she ignored my calls. I spoke to my psychologist and she said to send her a message saying "I think we need to talk". So I meet her in a park and she is drinking. She says, "I know I said I didn't do relationships, but I am getting into one now. I just have to tell you". I never saw her for a month. This guy moved into her apartment. One day I text her to go pick up my stuff. It was at the door. She was there and looked really miserable. She said, "Is that it? You are just going to walk off now?" I said yes and walked home with bags of books, records and a small fish tank. A month later she shows up. Tells me it didn't work out. Sorry for hurting you. How about we hook up tomorrow?

And here I am now. Five years of being 'in relationship' with someone who tells me I am still involved with my ex and other conspiracy theories. So why do we let these people do this to us? You see, we are a big part of this problem I'm thinking. Maybe these borderlines need to be put on an island with each other?  Like a leper colony or something. They can cause real havoc with your brain. They can and will hurt us. And you watch, I am about to get quite a flogging, and no book will save me. I'll be back here in a few weeks, days, hours telling you all how sad I am. It is an ugly scenario. We deserve so much better.

I really hope something good comes your way Yellowpearl. I know very well that sick feeling you are describing. Try reading this book maybe. At least it made me feel better for a while.

[Yellowpearl]

Thanks for the words of wisdom, 2020.

I appreciate you sharing about when you had gone through something similar. When I hear your story, that she said she doesn't do relationships then got into one and lived with the guy, then came back to you, it's eerily similar to basically how he did the whole "i'm not ready"  to "I think i'm ready let's meet and date again" then goes off with someone else, just like that. They are so impulsive they don't consider others feelings when taking actions like that. I really can't fathom how someone can go back and forth like this and not seem to care how these behaviors hurt a person so severely. It's all very damaging. I don't think sadly he knows what it is to be "ready" for a relationship. Yet he dives into one with someone he barely knows and recently met.

You are on to something, we are part of the problem. I'm still just trying to figure out how. If he comes back and I have no idea if he will, I'm not quite sure how i'd react, due to feeling so disrespected, betrayed and hurt if I should even speak to him again. But I'd need to be on my game and figure out what I can and can't tolerate. Whose to say he wouldn't do something like this again, by that point i'd have to check myself into a psychiatric facility if I go through it again. Then again, maybe he's left for good and I shouldn't even consider this as a possibility. My mind's sure a mess since finding this news out. Happy New Year to me.

These borderlines surely to not only be put on a island together but also attend a seminar about learning a few things about how to treat people like humans beings. The emotional whiplash can really affect your way of thinking not to mention your worth. What a havoc in my life these past few weeks. I almost been verge of losing my job from all of the anxiety, thankfully no one has taken notice (as horrible as it is to say this).

I'm hoping in New Year, i'll run into more newfound knowledge that helps me through this all. I understand your feeling of getting through one situation and being unprepared for the next so well. The reality may be: we can't fix them and learning what do we do with that.Thanks for the book recommendation, i'll definitely have to check it out.

[2020]

They are master manipulators. They prey on the vulnerable and weak.  I sat on my doorstep for five years after my previous 16 year abusive relationship with... .a borderline? Maybe so. She chased all my friends away and I was never permitted to talk about my past before her coming along. Lots of abuse in that decade and a half of hell. ALL my posessions, smashed to bits. I gave up buying CD's. I used to wake up most mornings with a bucket of water over my head. I slept in my infant son's room on an old truck blanket on the floor. I had given up owning a mattress. I wrestled more knives out of her hand than I care to think about. And then I was literally turfed out onto the streets with my 12 year old boy. Discarded. She had met someone else.

That was 2004. I was in such a bad way. I took lots of drugs and drank; self medicated. I had zero self esteem. At least I don't do that anymore! I was pensioned off and put into the too hard basket. And then one day an angel came along, walked past my doorstep and said "Hi". Because I was so  up and in need, and because she was so beautiful, way beyond my league, I clung to her, or at least a vision of her. And after that day I waited a year for her to pass by again, visiting the woman upstairs. You know that movie, that Eternal Sunshine movie? That girl in there... .that is what I am dealing with! She even looks like her. They dress the same.

Now back to what you were saying. I am not just wondering how they go back and forth like this, but why WE go back and forth like this. Something must really be wrong with us to keep doing this. I have had years with this person running in circles. I mean how long do we need to keep doing this experiment and coming up with the same result? Just when I was starting to pull myself up, start feeling like I could work again, believe in myself, I got involved with her. It is my own fault. I text her two months after my mother died. I was so sad and lonely. She lost both her parents at a young age so I thought she'd understand. I had been excommunicated from her life for a good six months prior, but she responded and swept me off my feet.

I totally get where you are at. This is really cruel. The anxiety must be sending you through the roof! Having to work while enduring this heartache would be very trying. Perhaps being forced to be busy is a good thing? I see other partners of BPD's here finding the holidays make them dwell on the misery of loved ones who are cutting them off.

If this relationship mess of mine ends, would I follow another 'angel' who passes my doorstep and says nice things to me? I am afraid I would. I am very afraid.

I really think the book might explain a thing or two about yourself and also give you practical advise on reinventing yourself for the better. We can't keep letting people do this to us, can we?

[Yellowpearl]

The mess just piles up, I get you completely. It sounds like you went through hell and back with the 16 year relationship and surely endured a lot, how ruthless of her. It really takes a heavy toll when someone just discards like that, I understand that well now. It's like going through drug withdrawals afterwards. First time this happened in the summer, he disappears for a month after he agreed to "work on communication" I was very weak to the point of feeling like i'm being deprived of water and I now wonder why I'd been tolerating this from someone who was constantly putting me on red, and has outbursts over nothing. Those should be signs he's capable of up and leaving. Then you learn about BPD and you're like "maybe I can work on this" But when your self esteem keeps getting shot, you start to wonder, what's going on with US here to keep going back for the same?

I think we need to look at it as if they are capable or not of improvement and whether they show any real progress, and not take pity on them because they have a personality disorder or "issues." But approach it like this, can they cope? yes or no? Do they have a coping system? yes or no? Are they willing to come up with a coping system consistently for 6 (or some number of months) Yes or no? Are they willing to work on xyz issue when I brought it up 3 times? Yes or no? If the person starts slacking off and you constantly are calling them on it, it's over. That's how it should be. Because for life long relationships, we don't have the time (or energy) to rehabilitate them, do we? We might end up drained or get our self esteem shattered.

If you're dealing with the a girl like in Eternal Sunshine movie, you're facing a wild one for sure. They have mental issues and don't want to work on them. There is a lot of denial involved. They don't think they have a problem. They need to be willing to work on things and if they aren't and the willingness isn't there, i'm thinking more in the line of  what else can we do. But we keep doing the same thing. I've been running in circles with this guy over a year and now i'm left with all this heartache. Now i'm trying to understand all of this.

I totally feel you. If someone else like him walks into myself, I'm afraid I will follow that person too. We need to come up with a system to protect ourselves to determine who are capable vs not capable of making changes.

Oh yes, my anxiety has been crazy! I barely could put in two hours of work in per day. I even had thoughts about quitting my job, (just trying to hang in there). I never thought something like this could wear me down so much. It's very jarring to experience. I honestly can't get rid of this sick feeling yet. Sick at how much I fell for him. Sick at having missed him. Sick at all the emotional abuse I endured. Sick at how he set up plans to work things out yet had no remorse i'd find out through social media that he's in a relationship weeks later after disappearing. It's truly cruel. I'm very lost that this happened to me, hopefully I can find something to keep me busy soon or i'll go insane.

I'm going to check out that book hopefully by the weekend. We gotta find what it is about us that attracts these people,why we tolerate it and what we can do to avoid getting so hurt. It isn't healthy right?

[Radcliff]

I'm going to check out that book hopefully by the weekend. We gotta find what it is about us that attracts these people,why we tolerate it and what we can do to avoid getting so hurt. It isn't healthy right?

Yellowpearl, you are spot on here.  Our pwBPD are who they are.  We choose to associate with them.  They have often been badly harmed in their pasts, and have serious deficits.  It's not a matter of detecting who can change.  We should look at our adult partners, mental illness or not, for who they are as we find them.

It was a lightbulb moment for me when I realized that my partner's emotions were not manipulative.  They were genuine, as hard as that was for me to grasp.  She really did hate me one day and love me the next.  That realization helped me to empathize with her and not feel like she was evil, just a hurt person lashing out.  Yet it took me years past that to realize that despite bending over backwards to keep life functioning, I really was papering over the problems and not taking responsibility for solutions.  I finally faced the reality that I needed to be Bettering with all the tools we have here, or ending the relationship.

RC

[2020]

Despite a civil and intimate email exchange last night until 3am, I have heard absolutely nothing from her today. If I was actually strong right now, I wouldn't be worrying. But this is someone who goes through these suicidal phases quite often. As the day has progressed here I have got less and less done. I am now sitting here drinking coffee, refreshing emails every minute waiting for a response. Maybe I am doing this to myself. I am starting to go mad again. I feel physically sick. I have got myself in quite a bind. The BPD's, who apparently suffer from anxiety and abandonment, they sure know how to inflict it onto others. You don't think this is maniplulative?

[Cailin]

I have come to the same conclusion as RC, I am not doing my hwBPD any good if I ignore his illness and continue to be undone by his splitting, rages and all his other symptoms. I know how to make things worse. I do not know how to make things better. That’s not because the tools aren’t there, it’s because I’m so beaten down by his verbal abuse and paranoia that I am losing interest in investing so much and getting so little back. I do have a life outside of him, in fact most of my life has nothing to do with him, but I have no intimate partner and it’s getting old. His last verbal assault (Christmas Eve) included accusing me of having my dad out for Christmas so he could help me with the divorce papers (my dads an attorney). 5 months ago he went into a rage in a restaurant over something fairly benign that I said ( I was not remembering to walk on egg shells and stepped  on a land mind) and told me he wanted a divorce everyday for a month. He went to a mediator with me (I had to have a third party present) so I could tell him and have him hear that I did not want a divorce. It’s a world of opposites, the egregious acts that he commits dont happen, meanwhile the contemptible things that I do (like sleeping with our neighbor, which of course I did not do) have happened. And I can’t combat anything because as soon as I open my mouth he starts screaming at me. I feel trapped in a script of a play that I didn’t try out for but was given the part. He will pervert anything I say and make it appear as if I’m persecuting him. His “predator alert system” is alway on, but especially around me.
Maybe this is more than BPD. Maybe it’s psychosis.

[2020]

Cailin, I get the whole thing about being trapped in a parallel universe of their creation. I have been stuck accused of still being in relationship with the mother of my children. We split in 2004 and I have virtually zero contact, maybe an email from her per year which I don't reply to. She started this tactic three weeks into the relationship and I argued that it wasn't true at all! I even dragged us to a really hopeless counsellor who just sat there and smiled whilst she spun her web around me and him. I can't even take my computer in for repair without being accused of sexual intercourse somewhere.

So here I am today after what I thought was constructive email dialogue on New Year's Eve, now getting the full silent treatment. Not a word since. I am worried sick. She tried to kill herself a week ago. She is very unwell. I just don't know what to do. How can we have relationships with these thoughtless people? I still don't even know where she is or who she is with. I think I may be developing psychosis

[Cailin]

2020, hang on, you aren’t crazy you’re being driven crazy! Would you consider sending a policeman over to do a “well check” on her?
We can’t live like this. It’s like trying to rescue a drowning person who grabs you and pulls you down with them! They prey on us because we have no self respect! We believe any manner of s*#!t they hurle at us because we are so susceptible to guilt and shame (my family is Catholic AND Jewish!) and they know it because they tested it out on us little by little in the beginning and found out what they can get away with! I’m constantly rehearsing what to say and how to say it by creating little avatars of myself, watching them go forth and do or say whatever and if I think it won’t go well, I kill them off and start over. How insane is that! That’s just to make sure I stay off the land mines! It’s also very tactical because the more presise I am with my language, the better I am at warding off his accusations of , well, just about anything.
My dad has been sober for 32 years. He drug us kids through his alcoholism. I have realized that I have done the same, with my own addictions (to disordered people) to my own children. They absolutely detest my husband ( all 6 of them) and never should have had to endure his insanity.
The book says that we shouldn’t live this way. We should live our own lives and that the BPD will either get better or go away.
Let’s focus on ourselves, for the sake of our kids. Tell the truth and don’t say things that make us weak.

[2020]

Cailin, I thank you for your reply.

I am going mad again. I am in the house with my autistic son who keeps wanting to hug me and I just need to be alone. He is going to stay with his mother on Friday, the first time in over a year. I just don't get a break. I have heard nothing from my partner. I am not even sure she is my partner anymore. She has not even looked at her emails. I wonder if she is dead. I try to phone her sister for an update but she never answers or returns my calls. I think my partner has possibly filled her head with  .

The biggest tragedy of all is I am still focusing on this abusive  . How bad is that? These peole treat us like we are scum. We are not scum. We are the REAL humans out there in a World so lacking of compassion. And yet we beg to go back for more? The extent of this situation and lack of resolve; the enormity of this problem is overwhelming.

My Sister told me to write a long email to my Aunty in England. I just did that. It kept me busy for a short while. Now I am back to the torture. If it wasn't for this website, I would give up and die.

[Cailin]

2020, maybe it’s time to see a doctor and be treated for depression. I had to do that and it really helped. I’m off of them now but it was a great relief to not hurt and stop the obessive thoughts.
Just a suggestion. Plus being a full time care taker for your son is incredibly taxing. There is only so much of you and a whole lot of pain and suffering out there. Do you have a job that you like or hobbies to take your mind off of all this drama?

[2020]

Cailin, I thank you for your advice. I just don't like drugs. I don't like pills and the feeling of waking up thinking you had died in your sleep. My eldest son suggested I go see the doctor anyway and tell him what has happened. I did see him after I got bitten by my partner and told him I thought it was BPD. He said to me he really feels for me as I am going to have some really hard decisions to make soon. And here i am now. No contact from my partner. I am actually thinking this is the end being played out now. For all I did and the effort I put in, she is dumping me on the  pile. Cailin, I was a superb Caretaker! She will not find better. Her sister whom she painted black in March 2018 is now painted white and her son and I are the enemy.

I find myself slipping between tears and anger. If I sat down and wrote a list of all the  things she had done since I have known her (10 years), Skip would have a lot of work on his hands dividing the long post into parts. I emailed my aunty today and she was sorry to hear the news but had practical advice. I am just very sad. The anxiety comes in waves and almost kills me. My eldest son said he thinks once she has finished acting out this current drama, she will (unfortunately) be back in my life. I would NEVER treat a living thing like this! It is  unacceptable!

I did have hobbies... .until I let the vampyre into my life. I might drag out the synthesizer I bought but never got the chance to use, and make some weird sci fi noises at some point. I can't seem to get any artwork done. I was making massive progress on a poster, but just can't work right now.

I will update here as I disintegrate or as I get my  together and stop this monster messing with my head. What a tragedy. What a mess.

[2020]

... .the bottom line is, I should NOT be contacting her further. She is a destructive cancer on my brain and needs amputating and incinerating. It is her birthday on Saturday and that will be the last email I send her. She cannot treat me like this. The end.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cailin]

2020, keep writing, talking and thinking! You’ll solve this problem. It’s a huge problem but there is way more to you than you know. You have endless potential, even if you are not “at your best” right now. Stand up straight with your shoulders back, get the help you need and keep going forward. There is an  old Jewish proverb which refers to the fact that we have 2 eyes and they are in the front of our head, not the back, for looking forward. Don’t romanticize the past, no matter how good it was at times. Grieve it as a loss and move on. It’s all you can do. Our ancestors have been doing it for thousands and thousands of years.
What kind of art do you do? Are you a musician as well?

[Radcliff]

Maybe I am doing this to myself. I am starting to go mad again. I feel physically sick. I have got myself in quite a bind.

Our pwBPD have caused us so much pain, it's natural to focus outward on them at first.  I can see you struggling with whether to focus on her or on yourself.  This is a difficult transition to make.  You seem stuck.  Keep working to get over the hump.  It is holding you back.

The BPD's, who apparently suffer from anxiety and abandonment, they sure know how to inflict it onto others. You don't think this is maniplulative?

Once I started learning about BPD and reflecting on my partner's behavior, I no longer saw it this way.  I think of being manipulative as someone who has a strategy, a plan to control others that they are systematically following.  Our pwBPD are desperately doing what eases their short term pain.  They are working with their reptilian brains, stimulus-response.  That's why we meet them where they are, with things like boundaries that define our actions, not relying them to have functional responses.  I think of it like a five year old driving a bulldozer down the street, leaving a path of destruction.  Villainizing the five year old doesn't solve the problem.

Maybe this is more than BPD. Maybe it’s psychosis.

I can't speak to any particular case, but the amount of reality distortion in BPD can be remarkable, and unbelievably disorienting to us "nons."  There are also often other conditions happening at the same time, and substance abuse adds yet another destructive element.  I'm feeling cautious about the "psychosis" label, because labeling risks distracting us from our own actions which we can control.  I keep coming back to this point because it is a vital part of bettering and/or healing from these situations.

2020, I am sorry for all of your pain.  Depression can be a big weight to fight.  It makes it hard to get things done, especially creative things.  But you must figure out a way to fill your day with more healthy activities.  It's like being stuck in molasses, I know.

When you find yourself stuck in a negative thought vortex, do you have any techniques to break out of it?

RC

[once removed]

  everyone:

i think one thing that is a given is that our relationships involve very difficult people. we can all relate, sympathize and empathize with that. as has been said, sometimes we can be difficult ourselves.

i think another thing that is a given is that we love our partners... .with all of the difficulty.

having an outlet to vent constructively is critical in facing and coping with that difficulty. experts will tell you that.

theyll also tell you that we should be very careful about it crossing over into coruminating, bashing, and generalizations, and encouraging that from each other. when that happens, problem solving goes out the window, conflict is polarized and inflamed, and feelings of victimhood are actually increased.

2020, youre in a tight spot. your partner, whom you love and want to repair your relationship with has gone off the radar, and is tentatively responding. there arent a lot of good options or steps to take in that position. sometimes a therapeutic separation can help stop the bleeding or even improve things. its good that there is some contact that is established. its important to remember that she is dealing with a crisis, and there is tremendous tension in your relationship. that may be less about trying to manipulate you or hurt you, and more about taking space for herself. there is a need to vent your feelings, but seeing her as a vampire hell bent on your destruction is neither realistic or helpful to you. the most important thing here is to try to stay centered and focused on solutions, and what is in your control.

when was the last time you heard from her?

[2020]

Hello once removed,
I am not a nasty person but I am feeling much anger and hurt. I apologise for the negative comments I have written. I am not in a good place right now at all. I have not heard from my partner(?) since New Year's Eve. I felt we had a very good conversation via email. About 30 emails were exchanged and I conducted myself well I thought.

I have told her numerous times, sometimes in tears and quite distressed, that when she goes missing I worry myself sick. She knows this. She has not checked her emails for days now. Her email tab she left open on my computer. She has not seen the 3 emails I recently sent. Maybe there is a good explanation for this? Maybe there is no internet where she is right now? Maybe she is in hospital again? I just don't know why she would slip off the radar like this. What is so confusing is her telling her sister about all of our adventures in Europe and how we are both working hard to get back there. I guess all this can change at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason.

I struggle to get through the days. I have been in this space so many times before with her, but this time it looks like it is the end. Facing that very real possibility is making me ill.

[once removed]

no judgment 2020. when i was going through my breakup, i wrote some of the nastiest things ive ever said about anyone, about my ex. i dont regret it, it represented where i was, and i knew that at the time. equally important is that we all avoid an us vs them equation here.

i think its completely understandable that not knowing your partners whereabouts (even if you think you have a pretty good idea) would send you into a tailspin.

I have been in this space so many times before with her, but this time it looks like it is the end. Facing that very real possibility is making me ill.

maybe, maybe not. she did a hard back off from banning you from her life or contacting her again, before going off the grid again.

i think what is really critical here is tending to yourself physically and mentally, as hard as that may be right now. if/when she comes back, or you hear from her, youre going to have to deal with it with calm and strength.

are you seeing a therapist? what about your doctor?

[2020]

Thank you once removed. Your wisdom is paramount to me. I cannot seem to get her from my mind. She was checking her emails daily, deleting all of the others and keeping mine. Then she would take hours to respond and I'd get something abrupt, or even sarcastic and rude. On New Year's Eve she responded to my Happy New Year message. As I said, we spoke and got on so well. It was a beautiful conversation. I really thought she would be back the next morning but she has not even checked her emails since.

Her birthday is on Saturday. She expressed shame that all of the presents I have bought for her are smashed up. I said that they are objects and maybe we can learn from what has happened. She said, "the presents or things were trivial really, it was the behaviour and treatment toward each other that hurt the deepest. Maybe someday we can connect, I do not know what is good for either of us at present in regard to contact."

I don't know what to do. I don't want to make this worse. My sister has just pointed out my various options but I do not know what to do. Do I drive the 250km to her sister's home and knock on the door, wish her happy birthday? Is that is what she is expecting me to do? I doubt anyone else will celebrate her birthday with her. Her son is unlikely to, that's for sure. Or do I just let her sit in her pain and suffering? It is like I desperately want contact and maybe her birthday is the excuse I need. I am trying to process what I am thinking or doing. I need to be honest to myself. What do I do?

I do have a therapist. I have sent urgent messages to him to get an appointment. He can see me on the 9th of January. There is nothing more I can do. I will try to make a doctors appointment today. My mental health is very poor right now. You must remember I was put onto a disability pension years ago due to severe depression and substance abuse. My recovery has taken a long time and I am still not well. And now this. I have enough of a job trying to look after my sexually abused 17 year old autistic son and his 26 year old depressed cannabis addicted brother. I was just looking through all of the emails from 2018 to my sister. They were mainly desperate pleas for help, messages of despair and worry. The odd email would be one of hope. There are moments of being ignored or abused for three weeks. It has not been good. Some very serious domestic violence has occurred. It has been steadily increasing over the relationship. She may move to her sister and claim to anyone who will listen that she is recovering from years of abuse, but I am the one with the smashed up life, the bite marks and bruising, the cut hand... .The only thing I can be grateful of is the abuser is now gone and she is silent. I could possibly recover in time, but she will be tormented with this BPD regardless of whom she is with or where.

[Cailin]

I have to agree with RC about “the hump” between blaming and hating the pwBPD and focusing on myself. There’s a lot of freedom in taking care of yourself and changing the things you can change, namely yourself. I have been in a 9 day standoff since the Christmas rage but have kept my interactions with him  pristine, no fighting back, no mudslinging. Just validation emapathy and telling the truth. So much hate and vitriol. I kinda of feel bad for him. That’s new.

[once removed]

New Year's Eve

does she drink? do you know if she was drinking that night?

she has not even checked her emails since.

has this ever happened before? some days gone by without checking her emails?

Do I drive the 250km to her sister's home and knock on the door, wish her happy birthday?

i wouldnt. it would catch her off guard (assuming you found her) and not necessarily in the best of ways.

It is like I desperately want contact and maybe her birthday is the excuse I need.

i think given the last conversation, it would be appropriate to wish her a happy birthday. id keep it light and focused on that, i wouldnt push for contact.

He can see me on the 9th of January. There is nothing more I can do. I will try to make a doctors appointment today. My mental health is very poor right now.

the ninth must feel like an eternity. whatever transpires between now and then, assuming that anything does, it will help, and i think seeing your doctor is a really important step here.

They were mainly desperate pleas for help, messages of despair and worry. The odd email would be one of hope. There are moments of being ignored or abused for three weeks. It has not been good. Some very serious domestic violence has occurred. It has been steadily increasing over the relationship. She may move to her sister and claim to anyone who will listen that she is recovering from years of abuse, but I am the one with the smashed up life, the bite marks and bruising, the cut hand... .The only thing I can be grateful of is the abuser is now gone and she is silent. I could possibly recover in time, but she will be tormented with this BPD regardless of whom she is with or where.

one thing she says that may be true here is her uncertainty about how/whether contact is good for either of you at the moment. healing must take place, whichever way this goes, and in order for that to happen, the bleeding must stop. theres a lot of hurt, a lot of damage, a lot of anger, on both sides.

obviously, you cant snap your fingers and have this occur, but i would try to reframe the situation in my mind as the opportunity for that to take place. obviously the circumstances would be better if you knew more about her whereabouts, but more than likely, she is utilizing the space, and attempting to take steps toward healing. the second you do so for yourself, is the second that youre on steadier ground, and the trajectory of healing.

what do you think?

[2020]

does she drink? do you know if she was drinking that night?

She has been drinking since I have known her. Her dad gave her alcohol when she was 10 whilst her mother battled cancer. She was her dad's drinking buddy. I can usually tell if she has been drinking, even through email. I am not overly getting the impression she had that night, but maybe the other drugs she is on are clouding it.

has this ever happened before? some days gone by without checking her emails?

I have never been able to check whether she clicks on her emails or not. It is only by chance that she has left herself signed in on my computer that I can see this. She has however ignored me for days before and not responded until I am a complete mess with worry.

I don't think I will drive up there to see her. She said she didn't want to have a birthday this year. I will leave it at that. I will send her an email wishing her happy birthday and tell her I am thinking of her and love her. What more can I do than that?

The 9th is a long way off! I hope I make it until then. This therapist told me to research DBT years ago but I wasn't sure why he suggested this. Recently both my partner and I saw him together. It was a good session. My partner liked him. Last time I saw him I asked my therapist about BPD and I said I was about 90% sure my partner had this disorder. He said that would be a fair assumption based on the five years of monthly therapy I have had with him and the conversations regarding this troubled relationship. I really need to see him urgently. I tried to get a doctor's appointment but they are closed for the holiday season. They open again Monday the 7th at 9am.

The worst part of this is her cutting me off like this. If she just told me she is very unwell and seeking treatment, I would reassure her and support her. It feels like she has made me her enemy and I am to blame for her 5 years of abuse.

All I can probably do is let the wheels of time work and do their thing. It can't be like it was. I am reading two years of heart wrenching emails to my sister about this. It has been deteriorating for a long time. Hopefully she will get herself help now and make herself better. It was never going to happen around me. And I somehow need to make myself better. I am so scared of the future. I am so hurt and sad; sad for both of us.

[Radcliff]

2020,

You thanked once removed for his wisdom but haven't responded to the fundamental issue that you're not taking responsibility for the things you can control and letting go of the things you can't.  I know this isn't easy.  From where you are starting, it may be a Herculean task.  But that is your task.  You need support.  At least three times a week, though I'd start with daily for a while.  There are Al-anon meetings every day of the week in your area, sometimes more than once a day.  Search "[your town] [your country] Al-anon meetings."

No, you shouldn't drive 250km to see her unless she has clearly communicated that she wants this.  If she wants you there but hasn't said it, you're rewarding her expectation that you take responsibility for her happiness.  If she doesn't want you there and you go, then she'll be rightfully upset.  Stay home.  If she make a plan with you, follow it.  It's what people do.  Do you see how this tracks to the issue of ownership?  What responsibilities she owns and what you own?

Let us know about the Al-anon meetings.  You need to do something differently.  You need regular in-person help.  Nobody is going to come get you.  You need to go to them if you want to change the pattern you're trapped in.

RC

[2020]

Thank you Radcliff, you are very kind.

I am not going to drive anywhere. I will send a simple Happy Birthday email to her and nothing more. I was discussing my history with my eldest son who has seen the drama over the 10 years and he is very supportive. He is pretty certain I will hear back from her for the simple reason that she always gets back to me when she stops the anger. But after telling my son the details about our past he said she'll be back but this cannot go on like it has.

Radcliff, I feel nurtured by your comments and concern, but we are all different in our own way. I was in NA for a while a long time ago, and without going into details because this is not the forum for such discussions, I found it to be very counterproductive for me. Some folk like it I know. Try everything! There is AVRT Rational Recovery and SMART too. I value your ongoing support. You comment has got me thinking... .I will be contacting another counsellor (addictions) who I met with daily in my first week of recovery 10 years ago now. He will be most concerned and pleased I have touched base BEFORE I pick up another 25 year habit! I am still stupid as I always have been, but I am not THAT stupid. Better to take precaution. In the meantime I will try and just breathe, eat and maybe get some sleep somehow. I will see the doctor next week and my therapist.

[2020]

... .I was just thinking. This was a topic about the silent treatment and the information is now here. It has meandered off track and onto my current predicament. Recently, small incidences of silence and rejection were something I got used to. I actually figured out that when she locks herself away from me, I would knock on the door once, maybe twice, but that was it. I would then use the next hour or two to do my own things. I actually told her once how I used to go mad with anxiety looking for her but now I view it differently- I see it as a mini holiday. Obviously she did not like that. My problem now is why I am finding it so difficult to view this current crisis as simply a larger order of the usual. If I could do that, I might be able to get some of my own things done. It is getting over that hump. If she would just say to me that she has had a major breakdown and needs some time to recover, that she will be in touch, and appreciates that I care, I could deal with it. I just don't know where this relationship is at. I see on this forum there are others in exactly the same boat.

[Bnonymous]

Hi 2020,

As Once Removed said, the "vampire" view isn't realistic or helpful, but... .I am wondering if you could try to deconstruct and examine it a little? It's clearly a metaphor and, as such, it tells us (and you) something about how you view and feel about the relationship.

People often use "vampires" in a cluster of metaphors that also includes things like "sucked dry". In those cases, what people are often trying to communicate is that they feel that they have spent all their emotional energy and resources on the person/relationship and are now feeling drained and depleted. Is that what you're feeling?

The first thing that comes to my mind when I hear someone call an intimate partner a "vampire" is that they might be in a codependent relationship. Codependents often sacrifice their own emotional needs to the relationship, which I can imagine might feel a bit like having had the other person drain your blood.

Maybe have a look at the article here on codependent relationships and see if you recognise any of this?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

Regarding your last post, I think you're on the right track there, but are maybe veering off-course a little.

As you saw for yourself, it wasn't helpful to have told her that you viewed her withdrawal as "a mini-holiday" - she may have felt as though you didn't care that she was upset and withdrawing.

I think, when our pwBPD withdraw from us, it is important to do both 1/ showing them that we care and will be there to listen if/when they are ready to talk, and 2/ respect their privacy and space.

Once we've done (1), we can then let go a bit and recognise that we have a choice over how to fill the time while they're taking space. Many people fill that time with anxiously obsessing over the pwBPD and when they'll be back; this ultimately helps no one, as it takes a toll on the nons emotional health and tends to cause resentment at feeling so controlled by the pwBPD's withdrawal. If we can, instead, use that time for rest, self-care, and getting on with our own things, it can provide an opportunity for us to become re-energised and enjoy the freedom of independence, of recognising that we do not have to put our lives on hold and sit around and wait for the pwBPD to return. You've figured this out and have observed how that mental freedom helps you - that's great.

Maybe it might help to do a little work on the "showing them that we care and will be there to listen if/when they're ready to talk" bit?

[once removed]

The worst part of this is her cutting me off like this. If she just told me she is very unwell and seeking treatment, I would reassure her and support her. It feels like she has made me her enemy and I am to blame for her 5 years of abuse.

in a way, hasnt she told you this?

It can't be like it was. It has been deteriorating for a long time. Hopefully she will get herself help now and make herself better. It was never going to happen around me. And I somehow need to make myself better. I am so scared of the future. I am so hurt and sad; sad for both of us.

i think in a way, the two of you are pretty close to being on the same page about this. something had to give here.

fear of the unknown (her whereabouts, the status of your relationship) is scary... .terrifying. the mind will go to all kinds of places to soothe it and satiate it. part of coping with it has been venting/blaming her, for example.

shes probably feeling a lot of that too, for example, when she let you have it, painted you as a monster, banned you from her life. but both of you have been pretty quick to pull back from that. thats a good sign, and its also a sign of the kind of healing that needs to take place.

I see on this forum there are others in exactly the same boat.

i would really encourage you to help them stay centered, and to look at their options mindfully. it will help you more than you know, and keep you in problem solving mode.

[2020]

Thank you both.

I have managed to get six hours sleep and feel slightly rested. What is happening now is the reality of this situation is coming to the fore. She will never be back. She, the abandonment queen, has abandondoned her email address and abandoned us, and me. She has not checked it this year and I doubt she ever will. I cannot fathom why she would even bother checking her emails prior to New Year; why she would converse with me. She has simply vanished into the ether. Her sister who always answers her phone, now goes to messagebank and she will not reply.

Maybe it might help to do a little work on the "showing them that we care and will be there to listen if/when they're ready to talk" bit?

This will be very difficult when I have been cut off with no way to communicate. The only option I have is to drive up there and knock on the door or write a letter. I think it is now beyond this.

shes probably feeling a lot of that too, for example, when she let you have it, painted you as a monster, banned you from her life. but both of you have been pretty quick to pull back from that. thats a good sign, and its also a sign of the kind of healing that needs to take place.

It is a good sign in what way? That there will be some reconnection? Or that there is some respect between two humans but "see you later"?

Honestly, I am worn out and depressed. I am also hurt and angry at her for not communicating. I don't even know if I can go through the rejection of wishing her a happy birthday.

Thank you for your input but I am without hope now.

[2020]

I think, when our pwBPD withdraw from us, it is important to do both 1/ showing them that we care and will be there to listen if/when they are ready to talk, and 2/ respect their privacy and space.

The problem here is, I don't know how big this space is. It may be forever. It is certainly looking that way. I have not actually been told directly that it is 'all over'. It would be better if I had. It is the limbo Bnonymous which is holding me in this anxious state of confusion. As my Aunty said in an email to me yesterday: "She has not thrown the relationship down the pan. She is mentally ill and not thinking straight and therefore anything she says or does is because she is mentally ill, not because she has rationally decided to be a grade A  . Mental illness has taken her away, she has not gone because she sanely decided to go, she does not know what the hell she is doing. Either she will get help or she won't but either way you have to find a way to carry on."

I am pretty much out of options now. I could leave a letter up at the warehouse which she will be vacating sometime in the next two to three weeks, or I could write a letter and send it to her sister's address. It is not looking good from this end. I thought things might have been on the mend NYE; thought the tide might be turning. It may have been an autopsy rather than a biopsy afterall... .

[Cailin]

2020,
Do you think that part of the problem might be that, before the silent treatment, she had shown some signs of being able to address her part in the conflict and acted as if she understood that she had a part to play. She gave you some hope, then vanished, is that right? Are you familiar with the different types of BPD? She seems rather “waif like” at the moment, weak, vulnerable and in need of being rescued. Doesn’t that presentation also “draw you in” as well? So, you have some glimpse of hope, then are subjected to terror for her safety. Really, it’s the ultimate in “mind games”. You are so susceptible to guilt and shame that she just gives you a little boost of dopamine to get you interested then lowers the boom! She may or may not be doing it “on purpose” but who cares, the effect on you is the same. Your poor brain will not let you rest, trying to get you to intervene even though she appears to not want you to. I don’t know what’s going on with her, God protect her, but there’s plenty going on with you! I’ve been there too, for years, obsessing over his incredible malevolence ( he meant to harm me in several instances, that’s why it’s malevolence). You have got to seek a place of meaning, between chaos and order. You have been thrown into chaos because you can’t make sense of what has happened.
Keep talking and writing, it helps you think.

[2020]

Cailin, I so very much appreciate your kindness. I am not in a good place today. I feel angry and hurt. I am never an angry person. I am so calm and patient with people.

I do not know of the BPD types. She was very rude to me in her exchanges on the 30th of December:

"yes, you were aIways to busy to have anything to do with me. what your preferred f____ has come to stay has she? Screw your emaiI. go and enjoy your reaI family and significant others."

"Enjoy your Iife with your family. Do not send me anymore BS sorry emaiIs. Thank you."

Then the next day the conversation was civil and somewhat nice:

"I would have loved to have shared the new year with you.
We have supposedly been in relationship for five years and i have never had such an offer from you,
In fact, I wanted to share my life with you, new, old or being conceived.
But you had other plans it seems

so you ask why funny?
it is new year right now.
You are not near me, i not near you. we do not even know where each other are or who we are with, if anyone,
It makes me so sad and is such a disappointment.
what more can i say"

"I just want to apologise for the violence i have perpetuated toward you, I never wanted that to be something that happened .
I am genuinely sorry, it is very shameful
I hope some day day you shall forgive me for my horrible, intrusive behaviour.

Thank you for talking to me
And i do care about you deeply, despite what appears by my behaviour.
You deserve love from someone who is nurturing and supportive"

"It is just a real shame it crushed and destroyed us.
 I know deep in my heart I loved you and just wanted us to have a chance to be together.
Goodnight to you and be kind to yourself and those you cross in your paths"

"the presents or things were trivial really, it was the behaviour and treatment toward each other that hurt the deepest.

Maybe someday we can connect, I do not know what is good for either of us at present in regard to contact.

Anyway it is half past two in the morning and i just want to take my Diazepam and enter a deep sleep now.
Thank you for your time and words."


... .and since then, NOTHING. She is not even checking her emails. I sent 3 short happy new year silly ones on the 1st of January but have not sent anything since. It is just too painful. She hasn't ended anything with me. I have been left hanging in limbo, a zombie, the living dead.

[Radcliff]

2020, I'm sorry you're in such a painful spot.  I know it seems like an eternity, but it's "only" been a few days.  Even in non-BPD relationships people sometimes need more space than that.  Unfortunately, she's not able to communicate consistently with you about her space needs.  But she is doing it with actions.  It may truly feel like the end to you, but I'd bet a fair bit of money that you'll hear from her again.  It will be better for her, you, and the relationship if you can get yourself to that place you described of feeling like you are on a mini-vacation from her.  I know it's hard, and I'm sorry for that.

I'd hold off on sending her any more messages for a bit.  She may feel crowded.

RC

[Bnonymous]

Hi 2020,

My last post wasn't clear enough - I do apologise for that. I didn't mean work on it by contacting her now. I meant work on how you will approach it on future occasions. I agree with Radcliff that she is likely to come back. I was replying to this bit of your post:

  I actually figured out that when she locks herself away from me, I would knock on the door once, maybe twice, but that was it. I would then use the next hour or two to do my own things. I actually told her once how I used to go mad with anxiety looking for her but now I view it differently- I see it as a mini holiday. Obviously she did not like that.

I thought the "mini-holiday" approach was good but that it was let down by telling her you'd seen her withdrawal in that way. I was talking about your approach to these smaller withdrawals. What I meant is that you're doing great with the second step, but that you maybe need to work on the first step. It's about getting the balance right between showing that you care and not letting yourself be consumed by it. If, on other occasions, you respond by saying something to her along the lines of "I respect your need for space, but I care and I'll listen when you're ready to talk" and then go off and have your mini-holiday, that's a good approach.

Don't then undo that good work later by telling her that you viewed her withdrawal as a holiday. The key is in staying busy and calm, but then keeping that calm when she comes out of her retreat. You don't want her to use withdrawal as a punishment or control tool and so you don't want to reward it with begging and chasing and showing upset. But nor do you want her to feel that you don't care that she's been upset and that you've just enjoyed getting a break from her. The middle ground is to show that you care enough to respect her space and not make it about you. So you tell her you're there for her, then you go off and do your own thing, then, when she's ready to connect again, you welcome her and listen to her with empathy and caring.

Have you heard of the old "carrot and stick" approach to reinforcement? Positive and negative reinforcement? Well, the ideal is to drop the stick altogether and make this all carrot, focus on positive reinforcement alone. The aim is to balance it so that she receives neither reward nor punishment for taking space; it is simply treated with respect and acceptance and a loving detachment. Then she receives rewards (in the form of closeness and caring) for coming back; she finds that, when she returns, she is greeted with empathy, a caring ear, and no recriminations for having retreated. If you take this approach, you are likely to see a reduction in both the frequency and duration of her retreats.

The point of the mini-holiday approach is to have respect for both of you as separate people with their own needs. You don't require her to caretake your needs during these times because you have learned to do it yourself. That gives her the freedom to take care of her needs for space. That way any anxiety or resentment on either side is lessened considerably.

When you tell her you had a mini-vacation, it undermines much of that positivity. Rather than sending her a message that her needs are about her and yours are about you, and that you can trust each other to take care of your own respective needs while the other is taking space, it, instead, tells her that her need for space was all about you and how much you enjoyed a chance to get away from her. Do you see what I mean?

[Cailin]

Quote:
Have you heard of the old "carrot and stick" approach to reinforcement? Positive and negative reinforcement? Well, the ideal is to drop the stick altogether and make this all carrot, focus on positive reinforcement alone. The aim is to balance it so that she receives neither reward nor punishment for taking space; it is simply treated with respect and acceptance and a loving detachment. Then she receives rewards (in the form of closeness and caring) for coming back; she finds that, when she returns, she is greeted with empathy, a caring ear, and no recriminations for having retreated. If you take this approach, you are likely to see a reduction in both the frequency and duration of her retreats.

I still don’t know how to put quotes in little boxes like I should!
Even though I agree with this strategy and have seen it work, it is incredibly hard to do because it’s so counterintuitive to how people use feedback to regulate themselves in the world and fit into groups. Our natural response to misbehavior is to punish it because that is how we have learned to fit in. Unfortunately, it seems like people with BPD see such “social corrections” as threatening and respond by deflection, self defense and attacking. Since they are sensitive about everything, they can’t be called out on anything because it’s threatening.
I think it’s good that you feel angry and why shouldn’t you? Carl Jung said that we can never respect ourselves if we don’t understand and embrace our “dark side” and stop seeing ourselves as harmless.
Are you paying attention to your dreams? Last night I dreamed that PETA was camped on my doorstep protesting our alleged mistreatment of our cattle. In my dream, my 2 younger sons had posted a picture of a cow with something like an ax in its head, fictitious as the day is long. So instead of “fact checking”, PETA organizers took it as truth and targeted us as abusive towards our animals and organized about 12 people with signs and chants and horrific allegations. I went out side and tried to reason with them but they turned on me and raged so I fought them back by yelling and throwing their stuff into the street and pouring water on their heads, all the while trying to keep it as civil as possible, knowing that if I went to far in my anger, I would be arrested, which is what they wanted.
How’s that for an allegory for my life with my hwBPD!

[2020]

Thanks for sticking with me here Radcliff and Bnonymous.

Tonight after a panic attack at a supermarket earlier, I feel some calm. I dropped my son at the bus stop to make the 250km journey to his mother. First time in at least a year. I am grateful for the break of one week. I had a flick through the "I hate you don't leave me" book. I have been thinking of all the drama I have endured. I had a read through my earlier posts on this forum. I could help my son pack his bag and take him to the bus, without some major BPD alcoholocaust afterwards. I was even able to get out the sewing machine and repair the loose zip on my son's bag.

My eldest son thinks, "there is a 100% chance I will be hearing from her... .unfortunately". I am just too in the thick of things to get the birds eye view. I am starting to feel a sense of relief that her sister is dealing with her now, for a while. She has run off to her sister several times since I have met her. It is usually after a major crisis involving the Mental Health Unit. Within three months she is wanting to tell me all about it, to pick her up because of XYZ... .blah blah and she has a falling out with her sister. To be honest, when she does contact me, it will be under the influence of alcohol, for sure.

But like my sister said today, "I agree that any diagnosis of ______ will be complicated. But it isn't your job to worry about whether she is getting the right diagnosis. What can you do? She currently isn't in touch with you and you can't ring every psychiatrist to tell them it is BPD. You have made it 100% clear to ______ that you want to see her or talk to her. Ask yourself if _______ is frantically on forums trying to save you, desperately ringing your boys and begging to see you? Very one sided."

Bnonymous, the mini holiday/vacation was a good idea. It represented a shift in my reaction to her silent treatment/vanishing. I should not have told her what I was up to though. That was a mistake in the heat of the moment. Thank you for your comment.

Radcliff, I think I may be having moments where the trauma is subsiding, just for a moment. She has done this before. This would have to be her biggest melt down, although I was not in her World at the time of her 2013 crisis. We hooked up as a couple after that... .when she was at her sister... .before she painted her black and adopted me as her 'caretaker'.

I may send a very short Happy Birthday message tomorrow. Uncertain if this is even the right thing to do. Am I just hoping to stay in her good books by doing this, incase she checks her emails? I will NOT be driving up there.
I will sleep on this (hopefully) and make a decision in the morning... .

Thank you!

[2020]

Yes Cailin, dreams can be pretty interesting. My partner is a huge Jung 'fan'. It is funny how these dysfunctional people have an interest in psychoanalysis! (Not saying you are dysfunctional here!) If only some of it would sink in. Maybe it has. I tend to view dreams as just a bunch of random thoughts just swirling around. My partner disagrees. She thinks they are telling us stuff. I am an atheist and believe nothing . If I were an art movement, I'd be DaDa! My partner, seven years younger than me is more Surrealist. Hopefully she will find her way back through all of those melting watches and flying lips!

[Harri]

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