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Author Topic: My uBPDd thinks and tells me repeatedly that I was unloving  (Read 831 times)
Manifest32f
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« on: January 23, 2019, 10:54:00 PM »

Mod note: This post has been split from the following thread as it merited its own discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333307.0

Hi all:

Each and everyone of you have given me so many wonderful clues as to what might be the reason my uBPDd thinks and tells me repeatedly that I was unloving, uncaring and she does not trust me. It makes so much sense and I greatly appreciate all your insights into what is really bothering our loved ones.

Thank you so much
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 02:42:27 PM by once removed » Logged
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2019, 05:17:49 AM »

Manifest32f,

How do you think what we have said fits with your experience?

Do you feel like you can empathise with your D?

Enabler
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2019, 09:16:26 PM »

Hi Enabler:

Just as I was thinking things were getting slowly better because I am validating my uBPDd and spending some quality time together as a family, etc. she exploded today just as she came in through the door about an hour ago. She was upset with something else and was very worried and when she came to serve herself dinner, she blew her top seeing what I had made (I usually let her know the menu so she could decide if she wanted to eat at home or not) and started saying hurtful things to me. I could see she was upset with someone else and tried to comfort her which didn’t work and she ate barely a mouthful before storming into her BR to answer her phone & I could hear her crying. When I cracked open her door to comfort her, she asked me to leave. After 50mts or so I can still hear her crying. I don’t know what to do. I feel so helpless and lost.
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2019, 01:09:56 PM »

She was upset with something else and was very worried and when she came to serve herself dinner, she blew her top seeing what I had made [... .] and started saying hurtful things to me. I could see she was upset with someone else

It's awesome that you recognize that her lashing out was due to whatever had upset her earlier, and not you. Unfortunately, she took it out on you and your meal, ugh.

tried to comfort her which didn’t work [... .] storming into her BR to answer her phone & I could hear her crying. When I cracked open her door to comfort her, she asked me to leave.

I'm so sorry to hear your DD rejected your attempts to comfort her, Manifest. I'm sure it was a concern to you that she was so upset - most people would respond the same, try to comfort.

When my DD is upset, there's nothing I can do to calm her down so I simply validate and leave her to her emotions.

Excerpt
Just as I was thinking things were getting slowly better because I am validating my uBPDd and spending some quality time together as a family, etc.

Please don't discount your progress because of this interaction. It's usually two steps forward, one step back, and sometimes two steps back! Take some time to regroup your own emotions, then back to it.

How are things going today? How do you validate you DD?

Hang in there, progress is slow. I hope you find some time for self-care today.

~ OH
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Manifest32f
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2019, 10:49:48 PM »

Dear OH:

Thanks for the kind words and words of support. Last night, I just let her know that I was available if she wanted to talk and that whatever she decides I would support her because she was so distraught that she said she may not have a job. When I woke up, she had left for work and I just texted her to say I am sorry she was upset about something & whenever she was ready to talk I was available. Later I prepared some comfort food for dinner and let her know. She was still feeling very distraught but more under control and seemed to have come to terms with whatever was bothering her and said she was going to deal with it on Monday after some further thought this weekend. I have to add that my uBPDd has black and white thinking and very strict rules about right and wrong, no grey area and no exceptions. So she feels that when she errs, due to little or no fault of her own, she has to own up to it and face consequences and she is very strict about it in her interactions with others also. I have tried to discuss this with her to no avail, since she always felt that I lie. I am not sure how to address it and would very much appreciate it if you have some suggestions.

For now, we are going with the flow and let us see how this weekend helps heal some scars.

Thank you all for being there for me. You are the only support since I have not discussed anything with any other family or friends all these years. I am so very grateful to all of you.
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2019, 03:20:10 AM »

Hi manifest

  I can relate to so much your post.

We just want our kids to be happy. I find it hard to watch them suffer - both of them. I’ve one son28 (dx at 24) and my other 18.

I think you’ve approached your daughter really well in your texts. You’ve said you’re there if she needs you and have left her to find a way for herself to self-soothe and lick her wounds.

This gives you some space to work out how and what to say if she asks for some emotional support. How does that look for you?

Excerpt
So she feels that when she errs, due to little or no fault of her own, she has to own up to it and face consequences and she is very strict about it in her interactions with others also. I have tried to discuss this with her to no avail, since she always felt that I lie. I am not sure how to address it and would very much appreciate it if you have some suggestions.

My son has rigid thinking too. In fact, I do sometimes! Are you asking for help on your daughter seeing you in a different light?

For what it’s worth, I found focussing on my core relationship with my son as my number 1 top priority really helped both of us. I’d always focussed on his problems - not him as a person. Actually, I didn’t like him very much despite loving him. I changed my approach, lightened up the atmosphere at home and became a person he felt good to be around. We slowly built up a new relationship - a healthier more respectful one. My son trusts us now to not react.

In the last 4 years he’s seen us change. He’s responded positively to it. We now work on his skills to live fully independently managing his money. What this looks like for us - is that we do very little other than walk alongside him as he finds his own way to live. He lives close by in a half way situation.

It’s back to basics manifest for better communication skills. I think you’re doing brilliantly. . One baby step at a time.

Does your daughter hear about the job Monday?

LP
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 10:49:14 PM »

Hi Lollipop:

My uBPDd discussed the matter at work and it went rather smoothly and she received adequate support instead of reprimand, so we were all very relieved. However, she was furious at me for not making the right kind of dinner, accusing me of trying to make her sick and perhaps even die early, etc. which was very hurtful to hear. As is the agreement, i let her know before hand what I was preparing (in the afternoon itself), so that she could get something else if she didn’t feel like eating what I made. When she was screaming at me and demanding that I order take out/delivery if she was not going to eat what I made(for which she said she would pay), I responded that I’m not going to order since I would not know what to order and she could herself do it (she’s very finicky & highly demanding), she screamed saying in that case, I don’t have to be around & leave right away (we are planning on going away for at least a couple of months so she could be on her own and we can all get a break from each other). I told my husband that I am very tempted to do just that ASAP.

I am not sure what was bothering her all of a sudden (she texted me as she was logging on for her music class thanking me for the wonderful dinner from her room)but I am very exhausted and can really use some alone time and just when I think things are going ok, she starts to pound us to the ground.

I am so down and so sorry
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 01:20:06 AM »

Hey Manifest,

Great news about the reprimand, sounds like a relief.

What YOU prepare for dinner appears to be a regular point of confrontation for you D. I assume she is able to prepare her own food... .ie she has no disability that prevents her from stiring things on a hob?

“I appreciate you don’t like what I have cooked for you, I don’t want to cook food for you that you don’t like, that would be a waste of food. I have made every effort to give you a heads up about what food I will be cooking to ensure that you have ample opportunity to seek alternative food. I feel very disheartened by your repeated critisim of my efforts. Therefore I pass the responsibility of your food to you, I will no longer be preparing your food. I will also not finance take out. Your nourishment is your responsibility.”

My D10 went through a period of refusing food. She said she was going to cook her own... .I said fine... .she did... .she came back to eating our food after a very brief period.

Have you suggested she cook for you once or twice a week? She can cook whatever she likes. Give it to her to own.

Enabler
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2019, 09:47:09 PM »

Hi Enabler:

Your advice is fantastic and I will try to present it to her that way when she brings it up next time. Contrary to last night, she was all polite and sweet today and apologized for her behavior last night. I did not say anything except to acknowledge I heard her apologies. I am not sure if I should have said something like ‘it was very hurtful to hear what you said last night because I make sure that I inform you of the menu so it’s convenient for you to make alternate plans if needed’ and leave it at that- what do you think?

She regularly does not do anything except when she is in a mood to make something. She makes her breakfast/brunch on weekends and also asks us if she can prepare for us without fail. She is very generous by nature towards us and outsiders alike. If she comes across the homeless asking for help, she will personally take them to any nearby restaurant or eatery, ask what they want and get it for them and during winter, it happens fairly regularly. I love her generosity and kindness but when she gets into one of her rages, I wonder if it is the same person.

I know her major issue is a sense of abandonment although she feels guilty that we are still staying around after retirement because she needs us! I hope that she determines to face her undue fear soon and sits with us to plan our trip. I am still waiting... .

I want to thank you all for the wonderful support and kindness. Take care and stay well.
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 02:03:11 AM »

I am not sure if I should have said something like ‘it was very hurtful to hear what you said last night because I make sure that I inform you of the menu so it’s convenient for you to make alternate plans if needed’ and leave it at that- what do you think?

I think she knows this already and sometimes the unsaid is more powerful and leaves the ball in her court. Had you have said something to that effect she would have felt guilt and shame and may well have internalised it as "Mum MADE me feel guilty and shameful" rather than having to accept that it was her and only her whom was responsible for the events and subsequent feelings.

Is there any way that she can plan to leave before you leave for your trip? Even if it's just a case of her going to stay with a friend for a few days. I sometimes wonder whether or not it makes a difference not being there fore the actual goodbye. Coming back to an empty home can still be tough though.

Know the potential of our pwBPD is possibly the most heartbreaking. We know how they can treat other people and I personally just wish for the smallest amount of that consideration and care directed at me. I am sure my W would say that she does, as would your D... .but somehow they hold us to a different rule book.

Enabler
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2019, 10:37:40 PM »

Dear Enabler:

Thank you for the encouraging words. I am trying various things to see what works and it’s never predictable! Uncertainty is the only certainty in our lives when dealing with our uBPDs!   Both my husband & I are trying to spend quality time with our uBPDd, enjoying hanging out together, watching movies on Netflix/Primetime, etc. so that we all will have some good memories for future. She always complained we didn’t do anything much together when all of us were working and running around like chics without heads! In addition, we were dealing with drama almost every day and had very little peace of mind. Since joining this group, I seem to have some place to vent and ask for advice so I feel blessed. My husband is steeped in old ways and doesn’t let her outbursts bother him for too long and she also doesn’t show her rage against him as much as she does with me.

Until a couple of weeks ago, we dreaded weekends when her outbursts were at its peak. I should not jinx it- things have been slightly better the past couple of weeks when we started spending more time as family. I hope it continues.
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2019, 07:29:51 PM »

things have been slightly better the past couple of weeks when we started spending more time as family. I hope it continues.

I'm having the same experience over here, Manifest. When I am more present, my DD seems more balanced. Last night we painted rocks together after GS was in bed.

Excerpt
I am very exhausted and can really use some alone time

We all need time to recharge our batteries! Any chance you can steal away for a morning coffee meet-up with a friend? A sunset drive?  

~ OH
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2019, 11:54:27 PM »

Hi Only Human:

Glad to hear that you spent some quality time with your daughter painting rocks. You must have enjoyed it and I hope you spend many more good times together.

Re lone time, I do get to do whatever I want all day long while my uBPDd is at work but my mind is all the time worrying about her and there’s no escape from it. She is an only child and she has no real support system where we are now except for 1 or 2 friends. She has a lot of acquaintances and I don’t think that really counts. My worries are that when we go away she will be all alone and can easily fall into depression, especially with the weather being cold and she rarely goes out in the weekends. There’s no limit to my worries. I am welling up with sadness when I even think of it. I would like her to try and live on her own for at least some time (a couple of months) and prove to herself (& us) that she could do it when we are no longer here.

I really wish that everything goes smoothly. I am sorry to unburden this on you.

Take care and thank you for the support.
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2019, 01:07:04 PM »

I do get to do whatever I want all day long while my uBPDd is at work but my mind is all the time worrying about her and there’s no escape from it. [... .] My worries are that when we go away she will be all alone and can easily fall into depression,

Oh dear Manifest, I do understand the unrelenting worry when it comes to our adult children. It can really take a toll on us, makes life miserable even when their lives are chugging along.

I really encourage you to give yourself permission to take time for yourself, doing and thinking about things that give you pleasure. The goal is to live our lives and let them live theirs. We can only do this when we are focused on ourselves.

Thinking and worrying about your DD non-stop is getting in the way of your own happiness, peace in your life. While she's at work, you are free to do whatever you want to do and I'm willing to bet you don't want to be worrying about her during that time. You've gotten into the habit of doing so and you can redirect your brain, it just takes practice and commitment.

Here's a great article on Ruminations and how we can stop them dead in their tracks. It's rather lengthy but well worth the read.

Emotional Memory Management (Ruminations) - Joseph Carver, Ph.D.

Here's an excerpt:

"The fact that the brain allows only one feeling also allows us to have great control over our moods, more than we think. For example: A nasty neighbor calls and harasses us for some reason. We immediately pull the file on this neighbor, then another file as we are upset, and end up hanging up with a mood of anger, resentment, and an attitude of "I'll break her face." As long as we keep her file out during the day, our mood will be the same - anger, resentment, and so forth. In high stress jobs, for example, people frequently assure others that they don't take their job home with them, that they leave the work, briefcase, and paperwork at the office. Importantly, while they don't take the "work" home with them, they clearly take the "mood" home with them. They don't bring home the briefcase, they bring home the irritability, tension, and high-stress feelings.

However, if we choose to change our mood, we can do things like listen to favorite songs, look at a high school annual, look at vacation pictures, and do other things which will cause the brain to pull different files which have different moods - better moods.

Keep in mind, the brain will do anything we want: it will allow us to be angry the rest of the day or it will allow us to change it's mood - it simply doesn't care."


Let us know what you think, ok?

~ OH
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 12:13:33 AM »

Dear OH:

Thanks for the wonderful feedback and suggestions. I started reading through the material and it was very helpful. I am also trying to divert my mind away from ruminating about what was hurtful and do something to keep myself healthy by going on walks and gym which is very essential since I am diabetic and I need to be careful. It is helpful.

Recently we heard that my BIL is not doing well and just yesterday my daughter suggested that we should perhaps go visit him back home. This may be one way we can leave her to be on her own for a couple of months (which we want her to get used to & become self sufficient and independent). My only doubt is, if she meant only for my husband to go see his brother? Would she get all upset and angry if we both get the tickets? If that happens, how do we respond? For now, we are going to tentatively plan and maybe make the bookings and discuss with her to see her response in the next couple of days and take it from there.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on how I could go about it. She already said last week that maybe we should go since my aches and pains are increasing with the cold weather and my frequent migraines are also bothering me.

I also feel very anxious to leave her alone since she has been having some health issues recently and her job demands have increased exponentially that she has very little time and no energy left in her after a long day at work and I worry how she will manage when we go away. My logical mind tells me that she has to learn to balance it somehow and I will not be there for ever! Such dilemma! I wish our kids were more like us and managed things on their own
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 04:58:13 AM »

Hey Manifest,

Sorry to hear about your BIL, that must be a worry to you and your H. It's great that your D can have the empathy to know that it would be good for you to go and visit him.

Her emotions are likely going to fluctuate around this trip and more importantly your departure, which is why you as the emotionally healthy adult need to determine what is reasonable. Given her age, it is reasonable to leave her alone in the home and go away for a time. If you look to her for confirmation that you are being reasonable you're likely to get a skewed perception based on her blurred emotion filled vision. You will likely to be held to ransom by her negative perception of you abandoning her.

Would it be better to work on how you will manage yourself around the likely outcomes that could arise? e.g. what will I do if she rings pleading for us to come home, what will I do if she threatens suicide, what will I do if she yells and screams as we depart, what will I do whilst I'm away to minimise the amount that I worry about her?

Going to see your BIL is the right thing to do, it's the healthy thing to do and your D knows this deep down. I wonder whether or not this even needs to be 'discussed' with D rather than 'announced' since it's not reasonable to expect your D to be involved in the decision, by discussing it with D you are teaching her that she should be able to determine what you do. If she believe's she can control the outcome such that she won't experience negative emotions... .maybe she will. Maybe it's better for her to accept it is happening and work out a way of coping with the reality of it happening rather than focusing on it NOT happening. e.g. plan to see friends, have friends to stay, have boyfriend to stay, go away herself etc etc.

Stop walking on eggshells as they say.

Enabler
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 11:52:07 PM »

Hi Enabler:

Thanks for your insightful guidance. Just as I was doubting if she really meant for both of us to go, she seemed to focus on just her father going to see BIL. She avoided talking about it but texted from work offering to look for tickets and pay for them & my H & I discussed it and have not yet addressed it with her. As you can guess, we are hesitant since we have been having a fairly decent time together as a family and worry that it will change completely in nanosecond!
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2019, 12:24:35 AM »

Why not take the direct approach?

If you ask for her view and she says “I wouldn’t cope” and you go anyway then she may well perceive this as you intentionally hurting her, since she’s told you she wouldn’t cope. If you wait a long time to tell her then she may perceive this as you tricking her.

I would just confidently say something like.

“I’m going to go with Dad to see BIL as well. We plan on being away for a week or so.”

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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2019, 11:27:29 PM »

Hi Enabler:

Today things seem to be moving in the right direction. After my H found out about the air tickets, he let my uBPDd know that & she automatically told him that we both will be going & it was a great relief! Tonight she asked how long we plan to stay there and stated that we are always welcome to come back anytime to spend time with her! This is what I have been waiting and longing to hear from her all these years! I feel so relieved to hear that.
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2019, 05:56:03 AM »

That's amazing news and must be a great relief. I don't want to put a downer on it but you know full well this positive attitude may well change/fluctuate but you can prepare for this. When/if this happens I suggest you listen and validate the emotion but stand firm with 'the plan' and continue as was... .if this change doesn't occur, well that's just dandy... .and I suggest you do it more regularly to keep up momentum.

Make plans with care and empathy... .but make plans.

Well done

Enabler
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2019, 01:21:10 PM »

Awesome news Manifest! though I'm very sorry to here the circumstances, your BIL is not doing well.  That's very caring and thoughtful of your DD towards her family, she recognises you need to be with each other right now. I agree with Enabler make plans with care and empathy, perhaps agree a day/time check-in with her to let her know how you all are, she'll want to know how BIL is, sometimes it's easier when the focus is not on them, they use their coping skills, get on with it. How far away is your BIL?  

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« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 11:16:20 PM »

Hi Enabler & Wendydarling:
Thanks for your prompt response and caution that I need to remember & be prepared on how to handle anything that might arise. Believe it or not, I was thinking the same thing, knowing full well how fluctuating uBPDd’s mood could be! Today she took us out to dinner and some of her friends also joined us which was good.
I had not mentioned earlier to you all that my D has a stalker who obviously doesn’t understand the word ‘get lost’. She has lodged a police complaint but he doesn’t seem to understand the consequences of his actions. Yesterday someone came to deliver flowers without sender details which I refused to accept. Today he called my D to let her know (she was at work and didn’t realize he was the caller) & she again told him she is not interested and put down the phone. So when she mentioned about the flowers I told her what I did yesterday. She was angry that I didn’t let her know last night and I told her it had no sender name and apologized that I could have still given her a heads up so she would have been more careful and not taken his call. After some time she seemed to calm down but she may come back to it again later!
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2019, 07:25:56 AM »

Morning Manifest,

Having a stalker would be very disconcerting and destabilising. It's a bit by the by but I wonder sometimes whether or not pwBPD can attract/create stalkers in some perverse sense, relationships with pwBPD can be so intense yet end so dramatically without explaination and closure people are often left with intense feelings they don't know what to do with... .so they try and revive those feelings by endlessly trying to revive the relationship. It's not an excuse for the stalker person but more of a reframing of them in that he/she is likely well motivated if not misplaced. You did a good healthy thing marking a boundary for him at returning the package. Your D likely had mixed emotions at the time and has taken some time to muddle through working out you motivations and her feelings... .eventually she has calmed down and hopefully come to a healthy conclusion.

Re-calibrating our expectations on what is a reasonable time to expect a pwBPD to calm down and work through their feelings is tough... .and often one of the toughest parts of acceptance. They stay in the red zone for some time and we have to stay conscious as to not make things worse during this time. Something that a healthy adult may spend a fraction of a second rationalising may take several hours to process, and during this time they stay 'hot'. You allowed her to calm down and come back to you without chasing. Well done, good job.

Enabler 
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2019, 11:05:26 PM »

Hi Enabler:
Thanks for the wonderful and insightful guidance! Just as I thought I had done the right thing about the stalker, my D gets all worked up about not letting her know right away about the flowers (she asked why I didn’t call her when the delivery was waiting at the door) or when she got home so that she would have been cautious & avoided his call. The blaming went on for a while and I tried to keep calm and explain why I didn’t want to disturb her at work, etc. to no avail. I just apologized for my actions and walked away. I could hear her fuming for some time in her room and quieten down. She will most likely continue tomorrow and I will deal with it then.
She was targeting her F asking why he kept quiet and not inform her, etc. He felt lost unable to answer to her satisfaction! As we know, once our BPDs start raving & ranting, it takes a while to stop!
Re the stalker, it appears that neither he nor anyone in his family can accept no for an answer. I say this because the whole family including an uncle have contacted both my H & I repeatedly asking for an explanation for the ‘not interested’ answer! They keep calling us after nearly 10 months after my D broke up with him! She went out with him a couple of times to have lunch/dinner and nothing more. She told me from the very beginning that she was not really attracted to him but for some reason (being too polite to strangers), went & met him since he would come without letting her know from about 250-300miles away, most of the time! She said at no point she said she was interested in taking it to the next step. He somehow mistook that it was a done deal, and without asking her anything, misled his family into thinking he would be marrying her soon! My D is very clear about saying what she feels very clearly & expects others to do the same. So it came as a shock to all of us when this happened. Now it has robbed us of some peace and quiet!
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2019, 02:56:53 PM »

I need to vent today so please forgive me!
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2019, 04:19:59 PM »

Well that’s very constructive venting if that was it... .I expected better from you ;)

You’re doing a good job. You made a call, it wasn’t what she wanted... .you’re not a mind reader and you had good intentions. Hopefully she sees that but maybe act in a way that you have nothing to be ashamed of... .after all, you don’t.

I really think you need to try harder at this venting business. You’re allowed to really let it all hang out here.

Enabler
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2019, 11:52:14 PM »

Hi Enabler:
Thanks for being there for me
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2019, 12:01:24 AM »

Hi Enabler:
Thanks for being there for me. I wrote a long narrative, pouring out all that came to mind but for some reason I see that it just took my first line and erased (?) the rest! isn’t that funny slowly I hope things will calm down. From Friday, things between my DD and I were going downhill at crazy speed, all because I didn’t tell her about the flowers her stalker sent her, how I placed her safety in jeopardy, what was I thinking, ... .Both my DD & I have worked with DV victims and I have worked extensively with both victims and perpetrators so she questioned my judgment and I accept full responsibility for wrong decision. I was desperately trying not to worry her with this news although what she said was true- I put her in danger since this person (& the family) seems unstable. By this evening we started talking somewhat (she didn’t want to talk to me since Friday after the explosion) and I dug up some resources to read through & see if she could obtain an order of protection which looks like a possibility. I shared the same with her.
We are planning on calling my BIL family to find out if it would be convenient for them if we visit them maybe in the next couple of weeks and then get our tickets. I am keeping my fingers crossed If we go, we will be away for a couple of months visiting families and maybe stay in our new home there for some time, organizing the place, etc. giving my DD some time and space so she can be on her own and get proficient in managing things on her own. She asked that we book our tickets soon since my BIL doesn’t look very good & I agree with her since he has been on liquid diet. Hope we get to see him soon. I hope my DD manages on her own too. I want to thank you for all your support! Love
Hi Enabler:
Thanks for being there for me
Hi Enabler:
Thanks for being there for me
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Harri
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2019, 09:27:55 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  The continuation can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334756.0
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     everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way. ~ Viktor Frankl
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