What does healthy love feel like?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Seeking members who are in or who've experienced a long term relationship with a healthy partner.  What does healthy love feel like?  How did you feel at the start of the relationship during the attraction phase?  How did you feel as the relationship matured?

[Insom]

Seeking members who are in or who've experienced a long term relationship with a healthy partner.  What does healthy love feel like?  How did you feel at the start of the relationship during the attraction phase?  How did you feel as the relationship matured?

[Insom]

First, I want to acknowledge that the term "healthy love" sounds a little awkward and clinical.  Outside the context of this forum I wouldn't use it to describe my relationship with my husband because I think of "healthy" as eating greens and brushing my teeth and those things don't feel loving to me.  (I see them more in the realm of basic body maintenance.)

That said, I DO see my long term relationship with my guy as happy and loving.

I remember feeling a warm spark during the attraction phase.  A magnetic warmth.  I wanted to feel physically close.  I enjoyed his hugs (as opposed to feeling oppressed by them or wanting to run away).  His presence felt clean and bright to me.  Very appealing.

With my ex with BPD there was some of that warmth of attraction, too, but alongside it there was a feeling of darkness and threat.  I remember feeling intimidated by him (rightly so, in retrospect).  Curious.  Flattered by his attention, maybe.  Off center.

With my husband I feel cared for, lifted up/supported.  With my ex I remember feeling pushed around, controlled and perhaps a bit out of my depth.   




 

[MeandThee29]

I went through a period where I was convinced that I zero ideas about what healthy love feels like. I actually went to the therapist to ask if I was mentally ill. She pointed out my friendships and healthy family relationships, among other things.

I realized that I'm a good friend and a good family member. I love them, and they love me. If we squabble, it's minor. We work it out. We like being together and want more together time in the future.

In contrast, with my pwBPD, I walked on eggshells. I loved, but it was never enough. It was criticized and dissected. My motives were questioned. Fights were slash-and-burn. Really ugly and far-reaching from my standpoint. I got to the point that I questioned the quiet periods and frankly avoided them at times, especially when I suspected a ramp-up.

What a contrast!

[Insom]

Contrast indeed, MeandThee29!  I love how your therapist guided you to look at the other loving relationships in your life for a hint at what healthy love feels like. I also like this quote a lot because it's how I feel about all the loving relationships in my life. 

We like being together and want more together time in the future.

I'm trying to remember how I felt about being with my ex.  I think I liked it in the beginning during the idealization phase although there was always a sense of unease.  Toward the end we were miserable and argued constantly.

[gotbushels]

Insom   

I'm supporting your discussion and I'm also curious about what healthy love is like for others.

[MyBPD_friend]

You will feel it, if you don't experience any BPD traits in your partner.

[zachira]

In a healthy relationship, the partners are kind to each other, and protective of the other partner's feelings even when disagreeing with him or her. I had a boyfriend break up with me years ago, and he was extremely kind to me and available to me to address my concerns for a long time afterwards. I learned from him that breakups can end on a positive note, when the two former partners are caring and kind to each other.

[once removed]

i would say "safe".

[Dotner]

I also want to know!

I imagine/dream that it would be like this:
safe, as was mentioned,
you feel supported rather than judged
you can exchange "I love you's" during and after arguments
the behaviors that show love are consistent.

But is this even realistic? In my mind, it is totally crazy that this actually exists. I'm not saying there aren't bumpy/rough times in a healthy relationship, but I can't fathom what it would feel like to be with someone, get in a fight and then resolve it and move on without resentment.

I have woken up from dreams where I experienced the most secure, comforting, reassuring love emotions. I wonder if it feels like that.

I am very jaded now. Also, I have a first date in a LONG time in a few days, and my mindset doesn't seem encouraging... .

[Sunfl0wer]

It feels like... .
When something good happens to/for me... .
I am excited to share this with that person, knowing they will celebrate with me... .because I know they want good things for me... .want me to suceed in live and have goodness.  (And vice versa)

And when things are rough... .they don’t mind supporting me.
In general... .it feels like they are routing for me in life.  Like someone has my back... .but can also challenge me with honesty and differences in a loving way.

With my ex... .I was always cautious he may feel jelous, or competitive in some way when good things happened for me.  Sometimes he would trash an achievement or minimize it.
If he challenged me... .it was not to help me grow but to squash me.

[Tsultan]

Insom, I love your descriptive words of how it felt with your exBPD With my ex with BPD there was some of that warmth of attraction, too, but alongside it there was a feeling of darkness and threat.  Particularly the feeling of darkness and threat.  I remember having this knot in my stomach at the same time experiencing the chemistry we had together. 

I can remember being around a young man when when I was younger and I felt his kindness through his actions.  Hold a hand out to me when I needed it.  He had good energy surrounding him.  I am paying attention to the energy people can give off now.  Calming, positive, negative, anxious etc. 

I have a few good friends who are present when I am talking.  That is important to me.  I also try my best to be present for the other person as well, to listen to the other person.  Just listen and not judge.  I have another friend, my sponsor in Al-Anon who I feel like I can say anything about myself, even the bad things.  She accepts me for who I am.  That allows me to be free.

Not all these examples above are romantic love examples but I don't think it's all about romantic relationships.  I think it's important to have several healthy relationships with friends and family.  That way I am not putting the burden on my romantic partner to meet all my needs which would be totally unfair to him.   

[Insom]

Thanks for the feedback, Tsultan.   Your description about having a "knot in the stomach" is an observant one.  I like how it connects "darkness and threat" to an observable, physical sensation.  Nice work, by the way, paying attention to how you feel when you're with different people.  One thing that's helped me a lot in the last year is practicing my ability to understand what I feel.   Would you care to share a bit more about how this skill has evolved for you?  If you were to coach someone who isn't skilled at feeling their feelings how to do it, what might you recommend?

Also, I agree wholeheartedly about spreading your needs around/getting them met through an array of relationships and not just one.

Yes, I'm with you, Sunfl0wer!  A healthy romantic relationship feels positive and reciprocal, like you've got someone in your corner and vice versa.  It sounds like your ex viewed good news from you as threatening and I can relate to how minimizing that can feel.  How do you feel about achievement and ambition now that you're out of the relationship?

Hello, Dotner.     What a cool sounding dream.  It sounds like you've been through a lot and and are feeling pessimistic while at the same time holding out a speck of hope that the feelings in the dream can be made real.  I remember feeling that way, too, and eventually worked myself into a much happier place.  Did you go out on that date?  How did it go?

Thanks, zachira, for sharing your positive breakup story.  It sounds like the experience was an important one for you in terms of modeling what's possible.  How did it feel to be on the receiving end of that kindness?

Thanks, gotbushels and MyBPD_friend for chiming in.  I'm interested in hearing more, too, as I'm sure there's a range of what "healthy" looks and feels like. 

Nice observation re: safety, once removed.  The word "safety" is a tricky one, I think, for those of us with a history of intense romantic relationships because safety doesn't sound sexy.  Safety can feel warm and positive, but it can also feel insulated and boring.  At the same time, I think I get what you're saying.   How do you feel about the word "trust?"

[zachira]

Being on the receiving end of the kindness of the boyfriend who broke up with me, made me realize that relationships can end in a healing way, and break-ups are not necessarily about the end of love between two people. Sometimes ending a relationship  is about doing what is best for both partners which can be a form of loving kindness. In the past, I was so damaged by being the scapegoat in my family that I wrongly assumed that other people operated like my family members.

[Sunfl0wer]

How do you feel about achievement and ambition now that you're out of the relationship?

Thanks for the question Insom... .

Truth is... .I do stuggle allowing myself to feel a sense of achievement and have been struggling for many years with feeling worthy enough to persue more education in my field.

I find it easy for me to celebrate small sucesses, like getting the dishwasher unloaded.  Yet... .for larger self defining successes like persuing more in my field/business life... .I tend to beat myself up in my head with all the ways that I may fail and not succeed therefore am safest to proceed with extreme caution.

Certianly something for me to continue to seek resolution on.  Thanks

[Caco Canepa]

This is a great topic. I don't know if I have it sorted out myself. Before I had a better vocabulary for it, I was noticing that I'd had some relationships in which I constantly felt like I was "In trouble" for something — i.e., the other person had assumed a parent-mode and put me in a child-mode. Whereas other relationships that felt healthier in retrospect didn't have that dynamic for me.

I think both of my marriages were to uBPD people, and there was one relationship in-between that I eventually ended because it had that tendency. Then there were at least three relationships in which there was a noticeably greater measure of equality and mutual respect. They all ended for their own reasons, but I remain in admiration of those people.

[Tsultan]

Would you care to share a bit more about how this skill has evolved for you?

Insom I think your question pertains to how I began to notice the energy people can give off when I am around them be it positive, negative etc.

I will share my experience strength and hope:

My first husband was also an alcoholic, we were married for about 2 years when I gave him an ultimatum to either quit drinking or I am out of the marriage.  He went into recovery but I wanted to be sure he was serious so I stood back and watched how he progressed before we got back together.  He would leave for several days after an argument and finally one time he left and I felt so emotionally distraught I had this feeling for a fleeting moment that I could take my own life.  It was then I promised myself that I will never put myself through that again and decided to go for the divorce.  He would not agree to any terms so the separation went on and on for 3 years.  Eventually, he met someone else and they broke up and he took it hard and got drunk one night and called me at 12:00 midnight and told me he always loved me, and to never say anything bad about him to our S4 at the time. I knew he had been drinking and had about 2 years of Al-Anon under my belt and knew the right thing was to not engage in a serious talk when someone has been drinking.  So I told him I would talk to him in the morning if he wanted to.  I had a strange feeling in the back of my mind and mentioned something to my bf at the time about what he said.  Thinking it was an odd conversation.  I never experienced suicide in my life before so I didn't know the signs.  2.5 hours later, I got a call from his sister and she told me my exH had committed suicide in the basement of his home. He had hung himself. I was in shock and in disbelief.  I didn't know how I was going to tell our S4 that he would never see his Dad again.  That was the hardest part for me. 

Which lead me to my second choice, a man I was married to for 24 years who I think is a high functioning alcoholic, much like my father.  Both went to work every day, have friends, hobbies and by all appearances looked great on the outside.  Looking back, I was not even thinking of myself in that choice. I was looking for a replacement father for my S4 because as a mother and an empath at that, I did not want him to feel the pain of losing his father.

Early on during my first marriage I started going to Al-Anon meetings.  My life was falling apart and I wanted to see if I could get him to stop drinking but lo and behold, I learned there wasn't a thing I could do about his drinking but, they told me there was something I could do, and that was, I could get myself better by focusing on myself. I didn't realize I had been significantly affected by other people's drinking and the all the unhealthy behavior that goes along with it. So, I kept going the meetings.  Best decision of my life.

There are daily readers in the Al-Anon program. One in particular called One Day at a Time (ODAT) has all these feelings listed in the back of the book with pages referenced to the feeling.  Anger, fear, anxiety, gratitude, hope, joy, motives, just to name a few.  I would first read about anger because that was the only feeling I could relate to.  It was expressed in my home by my mother who slammed cupboards and often gave me the very painful, silent treatment. I learned that anger for me was a secondary emotion and really underneath my anger there was hurt. So, I learned how to recognize hurt as well.
Reading about feelings helped me to become aware of them.  Someone said at a meeting once feelings are neither right or wrong they just are.  That gave me permission to not judge my feelings and just let them come to the surface.  Growing up, at some point I began to only focus on how my mother was feeling so I could make her happy to avoid her rages. (She may have had BPD) This would set the stage for my people pleasing character trait.  I would basically numb out and react to others and pretend I was happy and make a young career rescuing people, pets, birds you name it. I gave to others without any consideration of how I felt about anything.  I have made great strides  with this character trait and have brought it back to a healthier balance most times but it is my default so I have to constantly be aware because I am a caretaker at heart.  I see now how I was the perfect fit for my exBPDbf. 

My 2nd marriage which I wall call exH24 was emotionally painful.  He acted just like my mother in many ways with the silent treatment and distancing behavior.  I was actually afraid of him but didn't recognize this for years later.  When I took my recovery to a deeper level I began to meet people who I felt safe with.  They listened to me. They validated me. They did things for me that other people in my family never did.  I began to notice how I felt around my exH24 most likely because there was a contrast to how he behaved vs how some of my friends in Al-Anon treated me.  I had awareness that I didn't feel safe around my exH24 and could feel that negative energy around him.  He was prickly!  I also began noticing that he would act very different when we were out together in public vs how he behaved at home with just me.  I liked this idea and feeling of being around people who made me feel safe.  I began to pay attention how I felt around all people in general and politely exited the scene if I was not comfortable. I began to learn some self-care.   

If you were to coach someone who isn't skilled at feeling their feelings how to do it, what might you recommend?

I say, listen to what your body is telling you.  Does your body talk to you?  When you are anxious do you feel it in your stomach?  When you are angry does your body talk to you?  Do you feel it in your head?  Your face?  Is there another feeling underneath that feeling?  Often times anger masks other feelings.  For me it was hurt.  My anger was really hurt turned inside out. 

Feelings help us to take care of ourselves.  When I get angry I have to think about where it's coming from.  Is there an boundary being crossed?  Do I need to communicate that boundary with whoever might be crossing it?  I need to talk to that person because I matter.  Self esteem is an action.  Use your feelings to help you to take care of yourself.  I believe that is why they are there in the first place.  When we are raised in unhealthy homes our feelings are stifled by the affects of someone else's mental illness.  Those experiences don't have to define us.  We can learn how to listen to our feelings again and put them to good use.  Feel them,  all of them.  The good ones as well as the bad ones.  Don't try to only feel the good ones and ignore the bad ones like grief or pain.  I believe joy and pain are inversely related.  If you don't do the work of feeling pain you will miss out on feeling this awesome experience of feeling joy.   

[once removed]

Nice observation re: safety, once removed.  The word "safety" is a tricky one, I think, for those of us with a history of intense romantic relationships because safety doesn't sound sexy.  Safety can feel warm and positive, but it can also feel insulated and boring.  At the same time, I think I get what you're saying.   How do you feel about the word "trust?"

"safe" doesnt sound sexy, no.

but safe really doesnt beget passion.

the kinkiest couples have safety words. just sayin.

[JNChell]

or . Personally, in all seriousness, safety is a big one and I think that there is some complexity to it. Safety, within a dynamic like this, involves multiple things. Information, fears, feelings etc. I suppose it depends on the individual and their experiences, but safety is a big one for me. I’ve only recognized this after a deep journey inward. I wish I would’ve realized this about myself long ago. Great thread.

[Insom]

I'm with you, JNChell, that safety is complex.  And I appreciate your POV, too, or.  I think what I'd like to express is that a healthy relationship is a relationship that has room for each partner to grow.  And healthy growth, doesn't always feel safe.  At the same time, for most of us, safety or security is practically a requirement for growth.  So it's a bit of a paradox that has me casting around for other words like "trust" to explain.

Thank you, Tsultan, for the thoughtful description on getting in touch with how you feel!  It sounds like your wisdom in this area is hard won and that you have a lot to offer to those around you.  I especially enjoyed reading "feelings help us to take care of ourselves."  Beautiful and to the point. 

Yes, Caco Canepa!  I can relate to feeling "in trouble."  (It's, unfortunately, a feeling that haunts a percentage of my relationships today.  Mostly around work.)  I like your observation about child and parent mode a lot becuase it's added a layer to what I understand about this flavor of relationship. 

I hear you, Sunfl0wer, re: finding it easy to celebrate small successes while beating yourself up over bigger things your'e more invested in.  Would you like to say more about your interest in pursuing more eduction?  Is this something you feel has potential to help you in your career?  Or is it more personal enrichment?  (I want to root for you!)

Nice anecdote, zachira.  I've heard here more than once that healthy romantic partnerships have potential to heal deficits from childhood and this story sounds like an example of that.  You were in a relationship with kind person who modeled an alternate, positive  behavior for you.  And you were able to drink it in. 

[Zen606]

Hello
Healthy love is two people that are able to listen to each other and solve problems together. That is one aspect of it. Another is to be supportive of each other and want the best for the other person. A relationship that is free of addictions with two people that care for their individual mental health, and that are doing their own work.   If this is healthy love I don't know it, never have. However in this lifetime I am trying very hard to heal the wounds of having had a Borderline mother and a father that did not protect us. Maybe after all of the work I have done in therapy, in my next life, I will have decent parents and I may know a decent relationship!

Zen606