Gathering wool Part 2

[Woolspinner2000]

Part 1 is here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332095.0;all

DH and I met with our MC last night, and I told him I wasn't coming back home. Throughout the session he was able to speak freely, and I listened and tried to validate when I could, but I also was able to be firm and hold strong to what I am looking for in our marriage if we were to start over. He said he can't believe what he doesn't believe, and I totally agreed that it is wrong to try and force someone else to believe what they cannot. That was a good point to say that this may be the answer we are looking for to direct us to go our separate ways.

He told the MC that he has told some of the men he interacts with about the gun comment, and that they laugh about it. Thus he said he cannot understand why it made me afraid, and that he cannot deal with my neurosis. I liked what the MC said, that my fears, so many of which do originate from my childhood (I agree and acknowledge that), are what are called 'enduring vulnerabilities,' and that we actually have the opportunity to help heal those in each other. He suggested that DH come towards me emotionally by saying, "tell me more about what you are feeling."  I was glad for a neutral place to discuss the gravity of our situation and to begin to navigate the waters of possibly ending our 34 year marriage. That's a long time. I was able to tell DH that this isn't how it's supposed to be, nor is it what I had hoped for or wanted. Obviously I am not able to meet the needs he has either, and those are my contributions to the failure of our marriage.

My appt with the attorney Thursday told me that I have to find a place to stay in the county where our home is located before I can sign any papers. I am reaching out and trying to find someplace. I hope someone in my support group can help soon. Right now I am only a few miles from my home, but it is in the next county over. I reached out to two family members for the retainer $ for the attorney for dissolution, and they are able to help me. I hope we can go that route rather than divorce because it is so much more expensive. DH may fight me though. It's going to be quite the journey, and I know many of those here have already been down this road.

Wools

[Only Human]

I'm inspired by your strength, Woolspinner. I know it can't be easy, where you are, but you are staying the course and doing what's best for you. The end of a marriage is sad, no matter the circumstances. My heart goes out to you. I'm glad you have the support of your children, the MC, and BPD Family.

~ OH

[Kwamina]

Hi Wools

I listened and tried to validate when I could, but I also was able to be firm and hold strong to what I am looking for... .

I am glad you were able to apply what you've learned, ranging from emphatetic listening, validation and mindfulness to asserting yourself and setting boundaries. You've worked hard on your healing and have grown a lot

[Harri]

Hi.  I have been thinking about you and praying for you and yours.  Can you check in please?

>> Wools<<    (this is me giving you a few gentle pokes... .)

[once removed]

wools, you joined 5 years ago yesterday. happy anniversary 

[Harri]

  here's to you Wools!   

[Woolspinner2000]

Can you check in please?

Hey Harri and everyone,

I popped in to welcome the newbies. Happy to have them here. 

I am so tired. Discouraged. It's tough this pathway. DH was texting me a lot a few nights ago (I don't even remember when it was), and I finally had to call a time out. He wanted to know how long I was going to be away. His texts are like his conversations, such that you can't argue or interact against them, and I just want them to go away. Tonight he texted that he sent me some emails. I did not read them because I had to work on the annual and quarterly taxes for our business. Brain exhausting, and the thought of reading them weighs me down so heavily.

The thought of trying to deal with his persistent, never ending pressure on me for answers overwhelms me, and of course no answer is satisfactory for him. I don't know how to stop him. Those of us who had BPD parents, does it sound familiar? The scenery and faces have changed, but the interactions are so similar. It's no wonder that I struggle to stay on top of it.

Sleep usually helps. I say that so often.

On the positive front there is a possible lead on a tiny apartment (the lady calls it a dollhouse) that was this gal's in-law's tiny home behind her house. It would be in a very safe and quiet neighborhood, and I hope I can swing the cost. My co worker heard about it and knows the owner. Also a couple of my family members are helping with the retainer cost for the legal paperwork to get started. I've decided I'm not ready to sign, but I feel it is best to get everything ready. Given the financial situation and potential risk of legal things with his connection to his friend, well, it's best to be prepared.

Thank you to each one of you who post your encouragement and thoughts to me. I truly   each of you.

 
Woolzie

[JNChell]

Wools, I spent part of my childhood in Northeastern OH. Ten minutes from Lake Erie.

[Woolspinner2000]

Wools, you joined 5 years ago yesterday. happy anniversary.

OR, I had no idea it had been that long ago! Wow! Getting old here! A good place to be though.  

Harri, thank you for the happy anniversary wishes too.  

I met with DH at a coffee shop this afternoon. It was okay... .fairly civil overall. Heavy talk, light talk, back and forth, like the waves on an ocean beach. Some wanted to crash in on us, but we tried to let the waves come in easily and gently. Not entirely successful, but for the most part we were okay. I have such mixed feelings tonight. Sometimes I feel on the verge of tears, some because of grief, some because of sadness, some because we could maybe have avoided this place. Maybe that is hopeful wishing on my part. It certainly leaves one confused, grieving, sad to the depths of one's being.

When I came back to the place where I am staying, they wanted to know how it went. Somehow in the course of the conversation I said I'd been in counseling for 7 years now. The response was that no one should ever be in counseling for that long.    She said I may want to be, but I don't need to be. Sighs. Let's just say it wasn't a happy comment for me to hear. I felt sad after that. I like my T and get a lot of help and encouragement each time I go. I'm sure I could begin to step away before long, but you know, it's that whole "I'm doing something wrong" mentality that sticks like a plague to us kids of a BPD parent. I suppose I am feeling vulnerable tonight, and the comment didn't help at all. In the end I know factually that it is up to me and what I need. When the time is right, I will know that I can step away. Facts and my feelings fight against one another far too easily.

One very interesting thing came from our talking today. I was going back over the details of his gun comment, and he didn't even remember what it was that he thought he had lost. It was as if those moments never existed in his head. When I told him what the item was, and how he said he had finally found it, the light bulb went on. Suddenly he grasped the gravity of the situation. His face crumbled into an expression of shock, and for the first time he said, "I am soo sorry." I thanked him for apologizing, and could see that he truly meant it. How long has it been since such comprehension has dawned within him? A very long time. Some of my sadness is because not only am I losing him marriage-relationship wise, but I think we are all losing him mentally.

I'm heading to bed, those mixed feelings will tuck me in tonight. Tomorrow I will get out of Dodge and drive into Michigan hopefully, to visit my 98 1/2 year old grandmother,  2 1/2 hours away. A good time to get away and be by myself. Hopefully the snow will clear and the drive will be good.

Wools

[Only Human]

Hi Wools,

I can only imagine the mixed feelings that come with your situation. I am here to comment on being told no one should be in counseling "that long." I used to believe that also. My BFF has seen the same T for more than 10 years and I thought to myself, "She must not be a very good T,"

I've been in therapy off and on since early adulthood, always going to a new T each time. My current T asked why I never went back to the other T's and all I could think to say was, "I was out of the crisis, I didn't need her anymore."

My T said, "It's like when your car breaks down and you take it to a mechanic you trust to be fixed. When the car needs maintenance, it makes sense to bring the car back to the same mechanic." That's when I realized I don't need "crisis counseling," I need therapy. The long stuff, the "get to the bottom of this, learn from it, and grow" stuff.

I'm thinking of you and sending love as you navigate this new relationship with your H and yourself.

I hope you slept well 

~ Barb

[Kwamina]

Hi Wools

The response was that no one should ever be in counseling for that long.    She said I may want to be, but I don't need to be.

In her mind, this might have been intended as a comment to 'help' you, but it actually is quite invalidating. It's easy for people to judge from the outside looking in, but the reality is that she has not lived your life and is not you. I am sorry this comment affected you. When I read this part of your post, it seems she wasn't really empathizing with you but rather projecting her own beliefs/issues onto you. Her comment is all about her and not about you.

Suddenly he grasped the gravity of the situation. His face crumbled into an expression of shock, and for the first time he said, "I am soo sorry."
... .
Some of my sadness is because not only am I losing him marriage-relationship wise, but I think we are all losing him mentally.

His behavior and mental state are definitely concerning. All your sadness makes total sense to me, even though you are making a decision now for your own safety and well-being, you've been married for many years and leaving that behind in a way is like leaving part of your life behind. It's a very significant move and I can understand why you would have mixed feelings. That's only human, I mean only llama

I hope you do go to see grandma llama I actually think I saw her the other day as I was travelling for work, she still looks quite young for her age I must say:

[Enabler]

My T is one of the few people in my network (other than a few people I know through work) that truly believes and gets unicorns, I’ve been seeing mine for 2 years now and see so many benefits in talking through things with someone out of my day to day universe. Not least because he checks my pulse and reminds me of where I’ve come from on my journey, especially when I feel like things have taken a step backwards.

Going forward I will see it as part of my general health regime.

Enabler

[Woolspinner2000]

Thank you for this Only Human:

That's when I realized I don't need "crisis counseling," I need therapy. The long stuff, the "get to the bottom of this, learn from it, and grow" stuff.

That's it exactly, and it is a really wonderful way to reframe it. Thank you. 

Enabler, you were helpful too. Thank you.

Not least because he checks my pulse and reminds me of where I’ve come from on my journey, especially when I feel like things have taken a step backwards.

I think when you've spent so much of almost your entire life feeling un-validated, it is a great balm to the soul to have someone willing to listen and tell us we are doing okay and doing the right things.

And to the Board Parrot, many feathered thanks as well. Truly.  My grandma llama was wonderful and doing well, but I notice her getting more tired overall. She is such a great example of love and of the importance of never holding a grudge. She is at peace within herself, able to love all those around her, including "Moxie," the newly adopted rescue kitty who is all grey tiger striped with a white belly and feet. She decided to adopt my grandma and lays on her lap or on her bed by my grandma's feet and purrs. It was a joy to see grandma, and she was so surprised to see me there. She loves having me come.

I slept well the past two nights. I had one bad dream early in the week that had me sitting up in bed suddenly, and I had to remind myself to breathe and that it was only a dream.

DH continues to email and text, but today I told him kindly that he was overwhelming me and giving me too much. He responded that he was glad I told him.

Today I was thinking about church and what I expect to hear from my friends who go to our home church. I went this morning to a different church. I think it's hard being a Christian and separating from a spouse because of so much of the teaching that I have heard. I know that the church in general tends to emphasize that the marriage is most important, and I realize that it is even more important than the people who make up the marriage. Even I have been guilty of assuming the same thought pattern, that it would always be best for a couple to get back together. But what about when there is abuse? What then? Do we still say that the institution of marriage is more important than the people who are being hurt within the marriage? I have wrestled with this a lot, and for myself I finally came to the conclusion that people are more important.  I believe in marriage wholeheartedly, but living in abuse puts an entirely different spin on it. i'm sure that most of those in our church are praying for DH and I to reunite. Is that really what is best? It's going to take time for sure, but I am just thinking out loud tonight.

Thoughts?

Wools

[Harri]

Hi Wools.  Thanks as always for checking in with us.  I don't have much to add except to say that you get to decide when therapy is too long ... .but you know that. 

i'm sure that most of those in our church are praying for DH and I to reunite. Is that really what is best? It's going to take time for sure, but I am just thinking out loud tonight.

My mom twisted and warped religion and God for me but I remember what she said to me:  "Always pray God's will be done.  Not mine or yours."  of course she could not follow that but I am grateful she passed that on to me.     So I am praying that God's will be done in your situation as always.  heh, when people say they will pray for me, I always in my head say "for god's will to be done".

Anyway, I though that last bit might help.  I don't have much to share about wisdom in this situation though.  I do want you to know that I think of you often and pray.  I am concerned so I am grateful for the updates and check-ins.

Thank you   

[Woolspinner2000]

Thanks Harri:

I always in my head say "for god's will to be done". 

That's it exactly.

An interesting twist today. I'll try to put it in words.

Our niece texted me and wanted me to call her. She is an attorney in our town. DH texted her and wants to meet with her and ask some questions. She and I have talked extensively over the past years, comparing the issues going on with her dad (DH's brother) to my husband. Her dad died almost 2 years ago from frontal lobe dementia with Parkinson's, and he was only 3 years older than DH. When DH texted her, she said he mentioned to her that he was now a bachelor. I explained the situation to her about the gun comment, and her immediate response was to ask if I felt safe. I told her I was in a safe place now. Then I shared with her about the situation of the financial issues and DH's involvement with his friend that has the current felony charges.

She was shocked, saying she knew the name of the man I spoke of, this friend of DH. I asked how she knew, and she said that a couple months ago a friend of hers had called her up seeking help and legal direction because she was pulled into a lawsuit with a man whom she worked for, and she didn't have any clue that there was trouble going on. This person whom she worked for is the same man DH is involved with, this friend facing felonies, and her friend is facing charges now as well. What a small world!

Then she wanted to know what her uncle's (DH) involvement with this man was because she said it's not a good thing. When she heard the details, I knew from all she said that this is a very serious situation, not only for her uncle but me as well and our marriage. I was validated and at the same time blown away.

She plans to meet with her uncle (DH) in the next few days and she is concerned enough with the gun comment to not bring him into her house with her children. I advised her to meet at a public location and her husband will join her. She said she'll let me know when they meet and that she has no problem letting me know if there is any potential danger for me. She also offered to reach out to her cousins, our children, and I am thankful because they're having a hard time.

Woolsie

[Turkish]

Wools,

On the one hand that's great,  but on the other,  this has the potential for a lot of complicated triangulation.  You've been here long enough to know that not all triangulating is bad, and in this case you have support and validation. 

I hope that your niece isn't going to try to advocate for you regarding the gun comment, but would rather put on her attorney hat,  meet publicly (which would be normal), and go from there, not mentioning you or trying to fix things.  She might be emotionally involved in this given how her dad degraded.  You haven't mentioned your husband having any symptoms of mental degradation that I can remember. 

[Libra]

Wools, 

I only found this thread last night. Here I was wondering where you were, with no idea of the turmoil in your life.
I cannot add any good advice.
I simply want to join the others in saying that I admire your courage and wits, your strength, and your steely nerve.

You are taking care of you. Despite the sadness and the turmoil, that is a beautiful thing to see. 

Carrying you with me in my head and in my heart,
Take care,

 

Libra

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi All, 

I had no idea how long since I last posted and see that it's been about a week. Where has the time gone?

Libra, good to see you back! Thank you for your post. I'm still here off and on, but it takes so much mental energy to get through my days at the moment that sadly I don't have what I need for the board. I do hope that will change, but you are all often on my thoughts, and family sticks together, right?   Survival mode is truly just that, survival.

Let's see... .time for catching up. Early last week S24 hit a super low spot in grad school, took him 1 1/2 hours to get out of bed in the morning. Alarm bells went off within me, and I pulled out the mention of "maybe it's time for anti-depressants" and it got his attention. We have spent a lot of time on the phone talking and texting, plus I traveled 2 1/2 hours Saturday to see him. Actually it was a 4 hour trip because I missed my exit and didn't even know it until I was way past where he lived. Tells you where my brain wasn't.

Turkish, your thoughts are good, and valid. Thank you. I am hoping that my niece doesn't get pulled in as well. DH has some questionable behaviors, but it is difficult to put a finger on whether it is who he has always been, or if he is getting worse as he ages from mental decline. They were to meet tonight but had to reschedule.

I felt a little better emotionally through the middle of the week, still working at settling, but the fact that sometimes I can pause to process something is a good step. I've been reading a book that is helpful: Healing Well and Living Free from an Abusive Relationship (from Victim to Survivor to Overcomer) by Dr. Ramona Probasco. The author experienced DV in her marriage, physical abuse.  What I've experienced is the verbal, emotional, financial and spiritual abuse side. She made a point in a chapter I read a few days ago, that when one is married to an abuser, the problems aren't about marital conflicts (which I have been quite thoroughly believing), but about abuse.

"... .Some women enduring intimate partner violence falsely believe theirs is a marital problem, in other words, a couple's issue. Holding on to this belief gives victims a false sense of control. After all, if I was part of the reason X behaved the way he did, then I could somehow stop it. Let's be clear: the only person with control over the abuse is the abuser. Contrary to what we may have been told or have told ourselves in the past, we cannot break the abuse cycle with better behavior, more prayer, less cellulite, or a tastier meat loaf. Abuse is not something you can manage or control. ... .As long as you believe you are somehow responsible for your abuser's behavior, you will remain in the tangled web of abuse."

So much hitting home with me, and I needed to see this and grasp it. I met with DH for lunch yesterday, and he told me once again how much I had hurt him. I told him I was sorry that I hurt him, that this was not my intention. He wants to be heard, he told me. I know he does, and I hear it over and over. I don't have the power to make him feel heard, no matter how hard I try. He was hurt that I put my family and my heritage above and before him (that I got my dad's Model A and one other thing connected to my grandfather, from that farm we've had since 1833 in our family). He said he was too passive aggressive with me, that if he had it to do over, he would have said, "No, you cannot have the Model A or the flintlock made from Grandpa's wood." I was greatly saddened at his wanting to take away the one or two things that are mine, that I identify with as special from my family, my inheritance. I saw there are holes in his beliefs and accusations. He was placing responsibility/blame upon me for his decisions to invest with his friend, all because I put my family inheritance before him, and therefore he decided to put his friend in front of me. I am seeing that for me to try and defend or explain is vanity, and I can let it go.

The longer I am separated from DH, the more clearly I begin to see. The road still stretches out in front of me, but I remain firm in my resolve to not go back. I returned to our family home to get a few things on Friday, and was struck by how empty our home felt. There was no life in it. Suddenly I realized that I had been that life in our home, the one who brought sunshine and life and joy. Now it is empty feeling, and it is grievous to see this place that I loved, through eyes now clearing in their vision.

Wools

[Harri]

Wools, thank you for the update.  I have been concerned yet confident that you are doing okay. 

Suddenly I realized that I had been that life in our home, the one who brought sunshine and life and joy. Now it is empty feeling, and it is grievous to see this place that I loved, through eyes now clearing in their vision.

    The gifts you have within you are glorious Wools.  They are a part of you and are not gone, not even from the house.  They are simply moving on with their owner.

 

[Woolspinner2000]

Thanks, Harri,

I hadn't exactly thought about the fact that the joy is coming with me since I'm me. Well, theoretically it is coming with me.  Right now I usually feel sad most of the time, and the clouds cover the sunshine. I go through my days and do what I need to do, but there is the doing because it is the next step, not because I want to. Sometimes I think I want to get an apartment and get a place of my own, then I visit apartments and am so tired to even think of this next step being feasible. It is, but once again feelings are awfully strong right now. But it is the rightness of what I need to do next that propels me forward. How surreal this is.

Not sure if I mentioned that the first place I visited was a basement furnished apartment with no windows, rather cave like. Good cost, but certainly not a mood lifter! There was no stove, just a hot plate. The second place was cute outside, looked like a very old and run down 1940's place inside. I was quite discouraged after that. Early this week I went with a realtor company and they showed me 4 places. Much better options, but since it's a college town, none are available until May through August. I saw one more today that I learned about through the new church I'm attending down there. It is a sublease until the first week of August. The young couple who have been there for 3 years just bought a house and need to finish up their lease. It's doable I think, but I don't quite know where I fit anymore, you know?

S24 is doing better. I encouraged him to send me his plan for the week with the hours listed that he set aside to work on his thesis. He was very successful yesterday at sticking with it, and he also planned around his free lance writing time so that he could earn money to pay off the balance on his credit card. He texted this morning that he earned enough money in the 3 hours he wrote yesterday to finish paying it off! He is thrilled, and I congratulated him on his empowerment and success. One more step forward for him.

 Wools

[Libra]

Wools,

Thank you for coming here and  sharing your journey.

A place of your own should be more than a roof and a bed, as you clearly know! Keep looking at your own pace, and trust your instincts: you will know when a place feels right. And when it feels right, you will be able to make it your own. You have been long in preparing this, no need to rush yourself now.

Never forget what lies behind those clouds. In time, they will dissipate, and the sun will once again warm your skin. 

Libra.

[Woolspinner2000]

Never forget what lies behind those clouds. In time, they will dissipate, and the sun will once again warm your skin.

Thank you, Libra.   Very much. I think that factually this will happen. It's just hard to imagine right now.

I had a rotten end of my week. Friday was awful, starting with D32 texting that her piano was leaving our house (she's waited a long time to finally now have a place in her new home for it). All I could think of was another big change and loss in our house, and I am not doing well with the changes. I texted back that I thought I had found an apartment, and it was too much for her. Boundaries popped up from her, and she doesn't want to know about these things. Okay, I can respect her boundaries. But I felt bad for crossing one I didn't know was there, and I felt bad for the loss of the piano, and I was a bad feeling waiting to happen I guess. I was vulnerable, big time.

That afternoon I did manage to get over to our house before the piano movers came, thankfully. However I did not do so well around DH. I found out he has already cancelled credit cards and opened new ones only for himself, and that he has closed checking accounts, at least one for the business and he said another is to close soon. That takes away any authority I have to sign checks, and I question who is behind this and why is he doing this? I have not closed accounts at all, but did remove him as an authorized user from my credit card and decreased the allowed credit line on it. He seems fairly intent on selling our place and said we would need to agree to split the money. Then he wanted me to sign papers to remove me from the corporation books. I had wanted to get off of them a year ago to reduce my liability, but once again, I've only been gone from the house for 4 weeks now. What is going on? He says he wants to work on things, yet his actions have never asked what he can do to bring me back. He has not once verbally expressed anything like, "what can I do to bring you back home? I miss you so much." Nope, not once.

I cried more tears on Friday than I have in years and years. I felt the vulnerability within me, seeking some kind of stable footing underneath me to hold me up. I looked around emotionally to find something firm, something that would support my fragile existence in those hours after finding out he is quickly moving to change things. The insecurity was unsettling, and familiar as part of who I used to be but am not any more. I realize I cannot look to DH for my stability or from any other person. It needs to come from my faith in the Lord, and in myself. It was a tough, hopeless day.

I left Saturday morning to go out of town and visit a friend. It helped. I needed to look out the window at the fields and trees spreading out on the horizon, quiet my soul. I think if this whole thing moves quickly, perhaps it is for the best so as to not delay the pain and grief for too long.

Wools

[GaGrl]

Wools, as I read this, I suddenly heard in my head a hymn popular in my Protestant tradition... ." How Firm a Foundation. "

You're on the right track. Your faith will strengthen you.

[Enabler]

Hey Wools,

It's painful to grieve the slow loss of the things that we anchor our stability to, whether that be a marriage, a home or the piano that sat in the corner of the room. Their disposal renders the memories we associated to them a bit redundant and somewhat meaningless. I guess it's also a sign that the fantasy (you changing your marriage and life) is moving close to a reality and frankly that's frightening.

If you put your husbands actions into the context of say the legal board on BPD Family, the sense of protecting assets and taking action is probably the advice he has been given. Where as before you had communal assets, he is now putting a fence around the things he wants to protect. I'd imagine this is standard advice by a lawyer which then means that assets have to be negotiated free. I'd imagine you probably expected this in some way. He could be doing this from a position of hurt, he could not.

We talk on the boards a lot about going to a dry well to get water and then being shocked to pull up the bucket and it's empty. Given what you know about your H and BPD, do you expect him to ask what he needs to do to work on things? Accepting your reality and deciding what you could do to show him the way (if that's what YOU want) ... .maybe this is something you need to accept lays in your power to achieve.

Enabler

[Woolspinner2000]

Thank you Gagrl. That's such a great song. I appreciate the reminder. Doing my best to hang on.

Enabler, I appreciate your thoughts as well. Yes, I think it is quite normal the way H is reacting, but it's unsettling nontheless. Normal, I'm sure. Sometimes I forget that I keep dropping a bucket down the well and hope to get some refreshing water. Habits from long learned behaviors that don't yield easily. I often admire those who seem to find it much easier to recognize things for what they are, deal with them, and go on. While I am much better than ever in so many other areas of my life, this one with H still works hard to pull me back in, and how easily I find myself defaulting to what I learned in my childhood. At least right now it often seems that way. Stress brings out so many things, refines us by bringing up the dross.

I listened to a short presentation about the Karpman triangle last night. It was really helpful. The speaker talked about doing a different dance, and mentioned not participating in the Persecutor, Rescuer, Victim roles. I can see myself in the rescuer and victim roles, and H in the persecutor role but also sometimes the victim. We go round and round on this triangle, and the encouragement was to see where I am, understand it, and work at stepping off the triangle rather than continuing on it when I interact with H. That was really helpful for me. Just something as simple as the stepping off can make a difference in me. I cannot control H, but I can control myself.

Wools

[Enabler]

I often admire those who seem to find it much easier to recognize things for what they are, deal with them, and go on.

Wools, it's often easier to spot in other people because others have a more distant perspective... .those same people (me) are often the worst at seeing the same things in themselves and their own relationships. You're doing great You're doing your best given the information you have in front of you and the things you have sought to change, whether that is good or bad is irrelevant, it just is.

I really like this piece on the Karpman triangle. I nicely shows how all players in the game are actually dysfunctional and how we dance around from our starting gate.

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/

Keep making healthy choices at each step. The destination may not be where you plan for but it will be a better place.

Enabler

[Harri]

Hi Wools.       

Breaking the old habits is hard Wools.  You took those into your long marriage with your H.  He had his own and they worked together for a long time. 

I know I am not saying anything new... .I'm just reminding you.  You are not alone is discovering an abusive childhood and starting recovery and then getting to the place where you look at a relationship you began Before.  I have a definite Before and after list of people, beliefs, vulnerabilities, behaviors, etc.  Well, I actually have one big Before and a couple of smaller ones but anyway... .I don't offer that as an excuse but as context.

Like enabler said:  "You're doing your best given the information you have in front of you and the things you have sought to change, whether that is good or bad is irrelevant, it just is."

[Woolspinner2000]

Tonight is one of those nights that is a bit of a struggle for me. I got an email and texts from my H that threw me off. I felt accused and blamed, and there was some of that going on in his words. Some of it is true, such as him saying I've been secretive. Yes, I had to be in order to keep a safety plan for myself.

When he says this, I feel as if I've done something wrong. I must ask myself what the definition of wrong is, and is it wrong that we take value in ourselves and protect ourselves?

I feel small and afraid and that I must tell him everything which then leads me to recognize that one of my Lil' Wools is triggered, and she is hearing her uBPDm saying the same things. It's the history and learned behavior from my childhood that is causing these feelings to ressurect to my present.

I need to allow myself to be still and quiet, letting things settle (JNChell, that whole 48 to 72 hour thing!). I don't ever have to go back to the abuse. I can choose.

Wools

[GaGrl]

Look at these accusations through HIS filter, which you understand... .then look at it through YOUR filter, which you know as your Truth.  See if that helps to balance you.

[Enabler]

Morning Wools,

I know the feeling. When a disordered person attempts to define 'right & wrong' it's somewhat instinctive to sit up and think "hey... .do they have a point?... .am I wrong here?" However, allowing someone with an emotional and cognitive perception disorder to define what is right and wrong is like asking a drug dealer whether crack is good for you. I say to my D5 when she screams "Daddy you're mean" to me... ."Why? Because I said something you didn't like?" He may not like what you did and may feel like he lost control... .doesn't mean that is wrong, bad or even inappropriate. At the time it seemed necessary.

What is important is that you work out what is fair and reasonable to be less secretive about now and going forwards. My W for example has taken the idea of secrecy to mean that I have no rites at all to any of her activities, activities that I financial support and facilitate by looking after our children. She didn't feel inclined to inform me of petitioning for a divorce for over a week, nor did she feel inclined to tell me that she had applied for the actual divorce for over a month. This isn't reasonable behaviour. I implore you to critique your motivations for withholding information from H, be clear and concise about your intentions and follow through with the things you say you are going to do... .and do those things. Give him no more reasons to distrust you, his disorder is likely to make his trust in you bad enough already.

Take time to chew through his accusations, write down in bullet points the pros and cons. You need to get comfortable with your decisions independently from his mud slinging.

Enabler 

[Panda39]

Tonight is one of those nights that is a bit of a struggle for me. I got an email and texts from my H that threw me off. I felt accused and blamed, and there was some of that going on in his words. Some of it is true, such as him saying I've been secretive. Yes, I had to be in order to keep a safety plan for myself.

Do you see the FOG in this?

It's tough leaving any marriage, you loved this person for a long time and have a long history together.  You don't want to hurt the other person but in the separation process the dynamic is changing. Rather than looking out for the two of you as a couple, things shift to looking after yourself (and your kids).  I think to anyone who is empathetic this shift is difficult ... .you feel like you are being mean, or selfish but sometimes we have to be to extricate ourselves. It is okay to take care of you and to look out for your interests, in fact I would say it is necessary.  You don't need to go out of your way to be unkind but you do need to protect yourself and look out for yourself and sometimes that means being tough and fighting for what you deserve. 

Beware... .be aware... .of the FOG.

Panda39

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been split.  Part 3 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334330.msg13037791#msg13037791