I got 33 emails from her last night

[stolencrumbs]

So last night, while I was posting here, I got 33 emails. Nothing really new there or in my responses. What is new is that she sent what seemed like a sincere apology. My last email said for about the millionth time how frustrating it was for me to read and try to respond on my phone while wandering aimlessly around. This was her email:

i am sorry for typing so many words. for getting upset and typing, typing. i am sorry. i get all out of sorts and i don't stop and think about where you are reading my emails. about how that sucks so much too. i need to be and I want to be more thoughtful and sensitive about your situation too.  i appreciate you reminding me because i get weighed down in my own hurt.  you shouldn't have to read so many words on a tiny phone screen or try to type in the cold in your car. that is just awful of me. i am truly sorry. i am.

That is literally the first time in three years she has said anything like that, and is a complete 180 from the content and tone of anything she'd said all night. Hmmm. Seems like a positive thing.

[Cat Familiar]

I was going to post the below until I saw your most recent post. I agree that it is a positive sign that she has had a glimmer of empathy for you.

Givens:
She's going to be mad.
She wants your attention.
Nothing you can say will put her at ease.
She blames you for her mental illness.
She blames you for everything else.
Nothing you can do pleases her.
She controls your life.

As others have said, nothing changes without you changing. Perhaps it's oddly "comfortable" knowing that you can count on things being the same.

How long do you want to continue in this pattern?

[formflier]

  I got 33 emails. 

how many did you read?

How many did you respond to?

FF

[stolencrumbs]

how many did you read?

How many did you respond to?

FF

Read all of them. My guess was I responded to four. Turns out I responded six times. Twice offering to fix the initial problem she emailed about. Twice offering to talk in person about the other things she was emailing about. Once was the email above about frustration. And one acknowledging her apology.

The not reading is hard, in part because I always wonder if she might be setting things on fire.

[stolencrumbs]

I was going to post the below until I saw your most recent post. I agree that it is a positive sign that she has had a glimmer of empathy for you.

Givens:
She's going to be mad.
She wants your attention.
Nothing you can say will put her at ease.
She blames you for her mental illness.
She blames you for everything else.
Nothing you can do pleases her.
She controls your life.

As others have said, nothing changes without you changing. Perhaps it's oddly "comfortable" knowing that you can count on things being the same.

How long do you want to continue in this pattern?

Yeah, some weird comfort maybe, and some autopilot. I think 'ducks is right about changing habits. I need to figure out some small steps and start with those.

Part of my problem is that I am now realizing just how far back in our relationship the caretaking goes. I guess I used to think there was some status quo ante that was more or less fine, and that if we could stop the current patterns and current badness, we could return to that. I don't think that so much anymore. I think my wife does. So now it feels like we're not just not on the same page about the current circumstances, we're not on the same page about the majority of our relationship and how the previous dynamics need to shift. Addressing all of that seems more like an ironman triathlon than a 5k.

[formflier]

Can you set a goal of one response after things go off the rails.  Only one.

With 6 you are giving her enough reinforcement to keep writing. 

Do you get that?  That all the writing is working for her...

FF

[stolencrumbs]

Can you set a goal of one response after things go off the rails.  Only one.

With 6 you are giving her enough reinforcement to keep writing. 

Do you get that?  That all the writing is working for her...

FF

I do get that. I'm pretty sure responding only once is going to end up with a 911 call. I will go reread the earlier thread on that.

I just got back from teaching. I have four emails already, and they are already off the rails. The last one informed me that she will not spend another day imprisoned here and I need to cancel my trip tomorrow. Not shaping up to be a good night.

[formflier]

I do get that. I'm pretty sure responding only once is going to end up with a 911 call. I will go reread the earlier thread on that.

I just got back from teaching. I have four emails already, and they are already off the rails. The last one informed me that she will not spend another day imprisoned here and I need to cancel my trip tomorrow. Not shaping up to be a good night.

Please don't respond to the off the rails emails.  Can we help you craft ONE response to send this evening?

FF

[stolencrumbs]

Please don't respond to the off the rails emails.  Can we help you craft ONE response to send this evening?

FF

Sure. I've gotten two more already. The last one told me this was my last chance to be decent and honorable, and that if I ignore her I will never have another chance. That's a pretty low-level threat that I imagine will grow as the evening goes on.

My normal first response is to acknowledge the importance of the things she's talking about, try to validate something she's feeling, and offer to talk with her in person about these things.

Better ideas?

[babyducks]

How about some version of :

We have had these non productive email exchanges for too long now and I think they are difficult for both of us.   I do not want to continue to fight with you this way.    As I have said I am open to talking in person and when we both are calm.  You are important to me and I want to hear what you have to say when we both can speak cordially to each other.

[babyducks]

hi stolencrumbs,

I assume the moderators are going to come along and clean up the oddly split posts but in the mean time:

How are you?

'ducks

[Notwendy]

I'm late to this thread, but after reading it, it seems to me that- underlying all of this- she's angry about your trip and wants you to cancel it.

Seems ironic that you are sleeping in your office and living in your car, but one night out of town on a trip is an issue. Then she says she's imprisoned- in her own home alone?

The issue here seems to be your trip and it looks to me as if she will escalate her e mails, threats, to get you to back down. Or the other way is to change to being nice " you poor thing in your car" but both are her way of having you not go on the trip.

It seems this is a pattern that works for her and if it does, it makes sense she would continue it. Ironically, I think she feels abandoned if you leave on a trip. Somehow that is more scary to her than you sleeping in your office. She wants you to call it off. I don't think it would have made a difference how much warning time you gave her. That's just her "reason" that she feels it is. Often I've found the "reason" isn't the actual reason, she may not even be aware of it, but some fear over you going out of town.

I feel for you- being in this situation. It's tough. The issue is- your trip. If you go, I think she will react. If you don't go, you are reinforcing her behavior. It's tough.

[stolencrumbs]

Well, I was not successful at responding only once. Her emails became texts, and I can't count how many there were. Hundreds. I responded occasionally. Obviously my responses did not help anything. I do like your suggested email, 'ducks. And then I need to get committed to just putting my phone away after I send that email. I am too weak to read along and not respond at all over the course of hours. The last text was that this was it and I shouldn't call or email or text or come within 100 ft of her ever again. No fire or suicide threats.

Notwendy, I think you're right that going out of town is the immediate issue/trigger. It almost always happens, no matter how far in advance it is or isn't planned. It is bad when I go anywhere for any reason. I'm supposed to leave in a few hours, and my plan to do that. 

[formflier]

I'm glad you are working on restraint!

I think I can point out "proof" that your restraint is working.

Why do you think she switched to text? 

What do you know about the concept of "intermittent reinforcement"?

I wish you luck on your trip.  Pat yourself on the back for showing restraint.   One step at a time... .you can do this!

FF

[Notwendy]

Please go on the trip. Her acting up has worked for her in the past. People will use the "tools" they know if it works for them.

There is no way you can please her other than not to go, but that is denying yourself an important aspect of your career and it won't fix your wife's fears because the fears aren't based on anything you did or didn't do.

[boatingwoman]

The trip is one thing, but living in your car and sleeping at your office is unacceptable. Can you get an apartment or something?

You have a right to live in a dwelling of your choosing. And a peaceful one, but maybe start at securing a place that is fit for human habitation.

[stolencrumbs]

I did go out of town as planned. Good trip. There was no communication with my wife while I was gone. I emailed her on Saturday telling her when I would be back. I got a long email from her on Sunday night. I may start another thread about the content of it, because I could use help on responding to her insistence that I be fully committed to moving this summer. But I'll stick to parameters of our communication here.

So I think I am (maybe) finally ready to change how I communicate with her. I'm trying to figure out what is reasonable here. I'm leaning towards some version of what someone here has suggested (sorry, can't remember who it was.) One thing I really want is to just be able to plan what I'm going to do at night, without constantly letting my wife determine for me what I do. So I'm thinking about some kind of electronic communication curfew. It seems reasonable to me that we ought to be able to make any plans before, say, 7:00pm about seeing each other, talking, etc. I'd like to communicate this to her, reiterating that I want to see her and that it is important to me that we be talking with each other, spending time with each other, and trying to do things to improve our relationship. But I am not able/willing (not sure the best word here) to continue the kind of nighttime email/text exchanges that we've been having.

Does that sound reasonable?

[Cat Familiar]

It sounds more than reasonable to me.

However to your wife, it won't be reasonable at all. Are you prepared for her reaction? And are you prepared not to back down?

You see how asserting your own needs and doing what you need to do results in her dealing with it--such as not communicating with you until you had returned from your trip.

[formflier]

A "curfew" sounds reasonable FOR YOU.  Please don't try to "impose" it on her.

This is about you and your boundaries.

Would you consider posting the email from your wife here?  Obviously remove personal stuff.

I've done that many times and often I get good feedback where people say "what your wife is really saying is... .(fill in blank)"   Many times I can validate that and things go somewhat better.

Big picture:  Without knowing any more about it... discussing moving or not under these circumstances is likely NOT to be productive.  I doubt it's really about a move... .it's likely about her grasping for solutions to odd feelings.

Good job going on a trip when she didn't want you to.  I'm on a trip as well.  My wife was trying to dig at me about it last night.  The best strategy is usually to keep talking and not engage.

When they take a dig... .a big response will train them to take another dig.
 

Best,

FF

[stolencrumbs]

A "curfew" sounds reasonable FOR YOU.  Please don't try to "impose" it on her.

This is about you and your boundaries.

Yes, absolutely it’s about me. And I wouldn’t use the word curfew with her. I’m just trying to figure out what I want, what I can actually stick to, and how to communicate that to her.

[formflier]

Succinct and simple usually works best.

"I'm not going to be able to email you after (insert time).  I'll do my best to check in with you by (insert time in the morning)

Try not to make it a big deal... .just matter of fact.

Don't react to her going nuclear... .

FF

[babyducks]

Here is a suggestion for you to play around with.

Communicating with each other the way we do is not helping either one of us.  Rehashing the same conversation over and over again allows frustration to build.    I don't want to do that any more.  I prefer to speak about personal issues in person, not through text and email.

That's issue one.     

Issue two :

I would like to see you this evening but if I don't hear from you by X o'clock,   I am going to have a restful night and turn off my phone.    I will check in tomorrow morning around Y o'clock.

[stolencrumbs]

Here is a suggestion for you to play around with.

Communicating with each other the way we do is not helping either one of us.  Rehashing the same conversation over and over again allows frustration to build.    I don't want to do that any more.  I prefer to speak about personal issues in person, not through text and email.

That's issue one.     

Issue two :

I would like to see you this evening but if I don't hear from you by X o'clock,   I am going to have a restful night and turn off my phone.    I will check in tomorrow morning around Y o'clock.

Thanks. I went with a version of this. I'll see how it goes.

[Cat Familiar]

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